"Because Floyd was black" is not an evidence of the murder having a racial motive.
Do you think George Floyd's murder was racially motivated?
"Because Floyd was black" is not an evidence of the murder having a racial motive.
The fact of the murder being racially motivated or not is irrelevant.
The fact that Chauvin's murdering of Floyd was particularly cruel as mentioned by the Court and is why the Court, when sentencing Derek Chauvin, gave him 270 months in prison - that's 22.5 years and 10 years beyond the standard 150 months for 2nd Degree Murder.
But, you have to ask yourself, why was Chauvin so cruel in this case? I won't say race played the only role for this cruelty, but I completely agree that Chauvin would not have treated a White person with the cruelty that he showed George Floyd, a Black man.
The Court wisely did not address this nor did it mention race at all.
But it said something more important in the Conclusion to the Memorandum Opinion... that Chauvin "treated Mr. Floyd without respect and denied him the dignity owed to all human beings and which he certainly would have extended to a friend or neighbor."
https://mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/MCRO_27-CR-20-12646_Sentencing-Order_2021-06-25_20210625145755.pdf
======
DOCUMENT TITLE: SENTENCING ORDER
...
This matter is before the Court for sentencing after the jury returned guilty verdicts on
April 20, 2021 on Count I, unintentional second-degree murder while committing a felony, Count II, third-degree murder, perpetrating an eminently dangerous act evincing a depraved mind, and Count III, second-degree manslaughter, culpable negligence creating an unreasonable risk.
...
As sentence for Count I:
1. The Court commits you to the custody of the Commissioner of Corrections for a
period of 270 months. You are granted credit for 199 days already served.
2. Pay the mandatory surcharge of $78, to be paid from prison wages.
3. You are prohibited from possessing firearms, ammunition, or explosives for the remainder of your life.
4. Provide a DNA sample as required by law.
5. Register as a predatory offender as required by law.
6. The attached Memorandum Opinion is incorporated by reference.
======
DOCUMENT TITLE: MEMORANDUM OPINION
...
III.
MR. CHAUVIN’S TREATING GEORGE FLOYD WITH PARTICULAR CRUELTY IS A SUBSTANTIAL AND COMPELLING REASON FOR AN UPWARD DURATIONAL DEPARTURE (*) UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THIS CASE.
...
CONCLUSION
Part of the mission of the Minneapolis Police Department is to give citizens “voice and respect.” Here, Mr. Chauvin, rather than pursuing the MPD mission, treated Mr. Floyd without respect and denied him the dignity owed to all human beings and which he certainly would have extended to a friend or neighbor. In the Court’s view, 270 months, which amounts to an additional ten years over the presumptive 150-month sentence, is the appropriate sentence.
PAC
==========================
(*) I just wanted to mention that an "UPWARD DURATIONAL DEPARTURE" means time added to the sentence that is beyond the standard sentence for the crime.
That's irrelevant.
What's relevant is the victim, George Floyd, and the murderer, Derek Chauvin.
That said, yes, Timpa's case is bad but there was no real cruelty involved and the case against the police was thrown out under the doctrine of "qualified immunity" meaning that the cops may have erred but 1) they were not grossly incompetent and 2) they were not attempting to violate the law. This is the judgment in that case. (By the way, this judgment was in July 2020 shortly after Floyd's death.)
www.macarthurjustice.org/.../...dgment-Opinion.pdf
Back to the Floyd/Chauvin case, Chauvin caused Floyd's death while also violating the law. That was the "Count I" that he was found guilty of by the Minnesota jury in his trial.
>>> "Count I, unintentional second-degree murder while committing a felony, "
Yes, I did see what happened. It's not the equivalent of Floyd.
For instance, the cop said "I hope I didn't kill him." That was not his intent.
Chauvin had no such regret. In fact, Chauvin's actions were ALREADY felonious; the murder occurred during the act of that felony. Do you understand that?
Try to think about it like this:
Smith is robbing a bank.
While Smith robs the bank and is trying to escape, he kills a security guard.
That's like the Chauvin/Floyd situation. Smith didn't plan on killing the guard, so that's not first-degree murder, but it's second-degree murder and, in this case, during the committing of a felony. That's like Count I that Chauvin was found guilty of.
In the Timpa case, that's like a doctor trying to sedate a patient, but was not careful and gave the wrong medication that killed the patient. The doctor did kill but it was not intentional and not in the act of doing something illegal. That's why that case was thrown out under qualified immunity.
In both cases, you should read the judges' decisions. I provided hyperlinks to both.
I don't know because I wasn't there I don't believe that he should have died the way that he did when the cop has his knee in the back of his neck and he said he couldn't breathe the cop shooting released him he wasn't trying to fight or resist so I think that was totally wrong
Now it is saying all the above if I was a cop where George Floyd lived and I knew the record did George Floyd add and what he did to an older woman the things you did get to any woman and I don't care if he is black or white I know he was wrong and I know if that would have been my mother or my sister or my aunt and my grandmother that he basically pistol-whipped or had ordered somebody to pistol with this lady for no reason my thoughts about him would that be good two wrongs don't make a right but this guy was a career Criminal Who abused people who robbed people who held guns on people and out of this came black lives matter fucking right black lives matter all lives matter abusive Criminal Who has gotten away with all kinds of things was being held as the hero and his wife gets millions of dollars for him being a criminal you know what that just told everybody in this world I think she should have got money yes because he was murdered basically he was abused in the situation and that caused his death I can tell you this to there are more white people to get shot by cops then there are black people that is God's honest truth I think his death was a necessary it happened the cop has to pay for it and that's what it's all about right there he abused his position is it a police officer just like George Floyd confused is being a human being to Rob other people to beat up other people to pistol-whip older women grandmas all I know is the man should not be held as a hero because of what happened to him
I didn't hear anything about that I'm sick and tired of watching TV I'm sick and tired of the news I'm sick and tired of people treating people like crap it's like everybody just keeps pushing everybody into a corner and you know what happens when that happens so this is what I see coming down
www.facebook.com/.../
Damn I don't know if this is true or not let's just pretend it is that means the government at fault for killing millions of people what are they going to do he needs a scapegoat they will do anything to take the focus off of them they've already started your bullshit and the media has started your bullshit about race I'm fucking sick and tired of it you need to become one that's the bottom line you need to get it to our heads now because if that means I said is true is going to be chaos
I don’t think that it started out that way, I mean he was the one who asked to be put on the floor, and he was saying “I can’t breathe” during the entire event! I will say this… as an attractive blonde haired white girl, I have unknowingly given a store clerk a counterfeit $20, I even had to wait for the police to make a report! But I wasn’t arrested! I mean, it wasn’t even questioned! (other than “do you remember where you got this”)! The police made VERY sure to let me know that I was the victim “b/c I was the one who just lost $20.00”. The police couldn’t possibly have been nicer to me! After George Floyd happened, I thought back to when it happened to me, and I just couldn't help but wonder just how different it might have been if I was black? I’ve mentioned this here before, that I have black friends, and every time I go to the mall with them, we get followed by security, and our bags are often searched before we leave the mall. They say that “it’s just standard” and they “just do it at random”! Right!!! EVERY SINGLE TIME? Yet if I am with my white friends, we NEVER get followed OR searched! Just a thought!
You're absolutely right. It's important to understand that Floyd also had a very long rap sheet. He had a history of getting aggressive with cops, he has a history of being on drugs. The counterfeit $20 was the initial incident, but there was a lot of other background information that led to the way the cops had to treat Floyd. Race likely played somewhat of an issue, but his drug abuse, violent history, repeat offender status, and large stature were more pressing issues.
You make a really interesting point with the counterfeit bill. Although it's hard to extrapolate your Mall experience out to the whole country, or even what happened in Minnesota. Is it possible it's just the cops at the mall you go to frequently? Not trying to be an agonistic, just diligent
@Grond21 Millions of people have non violent interactions with the cops every year though. That includes black people, who are actually over represented in the police force in terms of population percentage. A counterfeit bill isn't typically a violent call... The difference between her experience, Floyd's experience, and the experience of every other person who has been reported for using counterfeit bills is that Floyd is a known repeat violent offender who was tweaked out on drugs.
@FilmGuy93 Yep, agreed. And sorry, my comment was meant for @CrazyGirl2
@Grond21 Hey Grond, I absolutely agree that my experience at (actually two separate malls) cannot be extrapolated across the entire nation. I also acknowledge that my experience is purely anecdotal. But there is something to be said that while I have never been pulled over by the police while driving alone, or with only white friends, I have been pulled over several times when one (or more) of my passengers was black! Most of those were when my gay BFF “Mark” was in the front seat of my bright yellow Jeep. Most insultingly was that I was asked if I was okay? But I remained polite, as did “Mark” and we were on our way. (With no ticket, as I had done nothing illegal). Again, I am fully aware that these are purely anecdotal, but seriously, how many anecdotal police searches, police stops, and questions of “are you alright miss” or “do you personally know this man, miss?” Have to occur before one begins to realize that in certain situations, and in certain neighborhoods, African Americans are “suspicious” merely because they are there! That being said, most of the videos I have seen where African Americans are abused, or mistreated by police, the individual had a terrible attitude! They were rude, or insulting, or even marginally aggressive! But one has got to be blind, or have zero black friends to not realize that black people are stopped more, followed more, and questioned more than pretty blonde white girls!
@CrazyGirl2 Sigh... yeah. I hear you. It sucks, but it is true. Especially in some areas. Things that are very overt and obvious are much less likely to be based on race, like an arrest. But something simple like pulling someone over? I can definitely see that being a result of stereotyping. What makes it extra hard is you don't know if it's this cop, this precinct, this area, or something endemic to cops as a whole.
I think a lot of sadistic people become police officers because they enjoy bullying people and beating them up and want a badge to protect them from prosecution when they do it, he could have hated Floyd because he enjoyed hurting people and beating people up, not necessarily because he enjoys hurting black people and beating black people up.
Opinion
81Opinion
I don't think so. He wasn't racially profiled or anything. A shop owner called the cops after Floyd tried to pass a counterfeit $20.
I watched the entire body cam video from the time the cops arrived at the store to when Floyd was in the ambulance. I saw zero evidence of racism. The cops actually treated him very well. They were calm and professional.
Floyd, himself, wasn't violent, but he was uncooperative because he was frightened and obviously out of his mind on drugs, so he had a hard time complying. But even at that, the cops didn't start shouting commands or getting rough.
Once the cops cuffed him and asked him to get in the car, he started panicking and saying that he was claustrophobic and couldn't breathe. They got him to sit in the car but he wouldn't put his legs inside. So one cop went around to the other side to pull him in so they could close the door. They didn't shout, beat or tase him.
That's when Floyd totally panicked and flung himself past the cop on the passenger side and landed on the ground next to the car. So the cops naturally pinned him down to keep him from getting up or struggling.
Even the cop who knelt on his neck was using a technique that they had been trained to do. And I don't think he was kneeling hard, not enough to cut off Floyd's breathing. I honestly think they were just trying to get him to calm down.
I can understand why they didn't take Floyd seriously when he said he couldn't breathe because he started saying that before they ever tried to put him in the car.
So the only thing that I would criticize is continuing to kneel on his neck when there were three cops there to keep him from getting up. After all, he was cuffed. He should have gotten his knee off of Floyd's neck earlier.
Racism, though. No way. I didn't see ANY. And it wasn't 1st or 2nd degree murder, either.
It was 'stupidity' motivated...
#1 It would have NEVER occurred if Floyd had not attempted to 'float' a counterfeit $20 bill,
#2 If the Store Clerk had not called for police intervention. Would he have allowed a white to get away?
#3 If Floyd hadn't initially resisted arrest. Floyd KNEW he had a host of prior offenses, what's one more?
#4 FOUR officers, 3 of whom were taking their lead from a 'senior' patrolman as how to interact to subdue a resisting arrest suspect with prior offenses, regardless of his race.
#5 Unknown if the Ofc. in Charge had had prior interactions with Floyd in the past.
#6 Use of PRESUMABLY excessive force ONCE Floyd was restrained both hand & hobbled at ankles on his belly. What was he going to do? The 'worm'?
FOUR ofc's can't keep a hobbled handcuffed suspect on the ground?
Desperately NEED remedial training in handcuffing 'big boys' (I'm a retired cop)
put the handcuffs THROUGH the Suspect's trousers belt or belt loops!
A little 'humane' treatment, ESPECIALLY in such a 'pr' sensitive ethnic audience would go
a LONG way to have defused the racial bias.
I used to train night club bouncers...
NEVER take away a Subject's dignity in so far as possible. It may BE the ONLY thing they have
as 'street creds'. If you do, THEY have little to risk they KNOW their going to the jail or hospital!
There was NO NEED for a 'mine is bigger' ego match.
He was contained and restrained. Regardless of his ethnicity~
Terminal error-of-judgement. Floyd's very life and Officer's careers1 Senseless...
There is absolutely zero evidence that the manslaughter was racially motivated. That was a narrative created by the media to push a political agenda. In fact, there's more evidence that it wasn't racially motivated since the officer used to work with him.
The leftist lunatics can't stand the fact that they were fighting for the establishment instead of against it all along. Makes them feel as stupid as they really are. Still terrifying to know how controlled and manipulated the media is in this country. What percent of mainstream media do you think was pushing the racially motivated narrative? ~90%?
Don't think it's as simple as that. Imagine if a prison guard at a Nazi death camp had a personal connection to one of the prisoners. It doesn't mean that when the prisoner is executed it has nothing to do with ethnicity/race. But to really know the answer we'd have to know deep stuff about what that cop was thinking and why he did it. The only thing we know for sure is that he had a personal connection to Floyd.
At any rate... you have to be psycho to slowly murder a handcuffed person like that.
No but we got no information in the trial. He treated others like crap including white teens… other people were killed similar way who were white by mixed race officers. I don’t assume it’s race but people who are abused or perceived so by race may see it that way… perception varies by experience and beliefs
I think it was more class oriented. Doesn't matter if you are black or white, if you live in the shittiest part of town, you are by definition poor trash, white or black doesn't really matter much.
Trash are criminals in the eyes of everyone above their class and law enforcement, so the problem isn't race (But racism is definitely a symptom and to some degree it's also an accelerator), but the roots go much deeper. Oppression of the poor has been around far longer than racism, the original colonists imported that shit from the homeland.
I don’t think he was murdered I think he died of a drug overdose and hyper delirium. He asked to get out of the cop car he asked to be sat on the ground when you look at another Cops body cam footage it looks like Derek Shoven‘s knee is on the back of his arm. I think George Floyd‘s death was a total accident and that’s about it
He died of an overdose, of course the cop was an asshole that didn't help the situation but he would be dead even if the cop didn't put a knee on his neck.
The mainstream media was trying so hard to make it look like it was racially motivated, and boy oh boy did it work.
No, I don't think the murder was racially motivated. I don't think the police are more kind to whites in the same run-down environment. Floyd's death is a classic example of abuse of power as there is around the world. As social psychologist Zimbardo proved, if you give someone the power to hurt you, he will surely do it only because he can.
This is even more so when the police tend to be little punished for such abuses and have little training not to commit them. If the policeman knows that he can perpetrate any abuse and is not punished for it, he will commit it. Here there is also a problem of the administration, which does not provide adequate training to the police forces.
Nope, George Floyd was a sadly but perfectly times political tool, and Derek Chauvin, who certainly fucked up badly, was a product of his training and a victim of circumstances.
Like most of these cases these days, had Floyd been a white drug addict instead of a black one, the vast majority of us would never have heard about his death.
It was a counterfeit money bust that went South. The Secret Service would have handled this more professionally the thing is about them if they come after you for money counterfeiting you are going away for decades. Unlike narco cops who are not professional. The cop could have taken his ID picture the counterfeit money and passed it on to the Secret Service and let them handle it instead he has to play cowboy $20 wind up becoming 20 billion dollars of damages was it worth it
https://en. wikipedia. org/wiki/Counterfeit_United_States_currency? wprov=sfla1
While it's true USSS has primary investigative jurisdiction in counterfeiting of money and other US securities, the states as sovereigns have their own laws concerning investigation and prosecution in counterfeit cases. Floyd's case, passing a single note in a store, was well below USSS noise level. The Service simply has not the time, the interest, or the manpower to act as first responders to complaints from merchants about receiving counterfeit money. The police were taking Floyd into custody and he would no doubt have been questioned at the appropriate time at the police station. USSS would likely have been notified once the basic interrogatives were answered. Taking Floyd's photo and ID information and seizing the suspected counterfeit currency sounds like a good idea on the surface, but seizure of anything from anyone without an arrest based on probable cause is legally a really bad idea. And trying to locate the person after the fact is often excessively difficult. Minnesota's statue on counterfeiting of currency is in Chapter 609, Section 632. The Minneapolis Police were fully within their authority to respond, investigate, and take Floyd into custody.
^^^^^ that may be so looking back was it worth it I don't think so not 20 damn dollars
Hindsight is always 20/20.
As well as being the Monday armchair quarterback that I freely admit and ask anybody here I usually never admit to nothing
No waiver, no statement, no polygraph 😉
It's only considered as racially motivated because he was black. There was another case similar to it, but the victim was white. And no one cared about it, no one talked about it.
Given the same circumstances with the same criminal history and the same behavior, the cop would have done the same thing to a white guy. That doesn't mean the cop isn't at fault for his death, but if George Floyd was white, we would have seen the same outcome.
Not at all, and if blm had heard what Floyd said about gangs in a social media video, they'd probably be celebrating his death quite frankly. The left wants people to blame the tools and not the people, Floyd had a good head between his shoulders and said this generation going around shooting shit is completely lost.
I can't prove racism. I don't have to. George Floyd's murderer deserves to be in jail. Derek Chauvin wasn't convicted of racism. He was convicted of 2nd degree murder. You can read the charges yourself.
His motives were not on trial.
I don't know. I don't know if it's a "murder" in the first place. That "I can't breathe!" stuff started in the car long before he was taken out of the car. I saw the full footage. I think we should end the war on drugs. That's what I got out of it.
Haven't looked into the details myself, but at the very least the police officer murdered George Floyd. Doesn't mean it was racially motivated, but if you really look into it, you'll probably find that it was. The officer who did it looks like a hillbilly. Call it intuition.
I'm not arguing logically. Intuition is not an argument. You're right. My opinion is not very educated on this topic.
It’s 2021 and we’re still having this argument 🤦🏽♀️ When was the last time you’ve seen a white guy get treated the same way by a cop? Ok.
The autopsy literally reports that George Floyd died from the pressure put on his neck. It was abuse of power and absolutely racially motivated
with his hands cuffed behind his back, lying face down in the street, the officer kneeled on Mr. Floyd’s neck for approximately 10 minutes until he died.
white police killing unarmed black men in this country Is not new.
And I don’t want to hear nothing about how he was a criminal. Y’all wouldn’t bring the same energy if he was white.
Numerous examples of when white men have committed absolutely horrific crimes even more horrific than Floyd and have been peacefully arrested 🤷🏽♀️.
Some examples I’ll give:
Bryan Riley, high on methamphetamines, killed four people he didn’t know, including a baby, a mother and a grandmother before shooting at police and later separately attacking a different officer.
Riley lived to see his day in court, even though he was armed and actively murdering people?
In Florida, a self-described Trump-supporting white supremacist with a huge swastika tattooed on his chest caused a racist disruption at a restaurant, threatened to sexually assault one woman and then physically attacked another.
the suspect, identified as Nicholas Arnold Schock, was carefully eased into the back of a police cruiser.
In fact, the restaurant’s employees and patrons used more force than the police did.
Crime and suspect behavior, not race, determine most police actions. In 2018, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U. S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population. A police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.
It was not off topic. I wanted you to understand your own logic.
Once again
YOU SAID it was a racially motivated murder because "police brutality happens disproportionately to black people statistically"
Your logic is when police brutality happens disproportionately to one group of people statistically then it show hate for that given group of people.
That is why I ASKED YOU THIS 👇🏻
More WHITE MEN are victims of police brutality than WHITE WOMEN.
Is this white misandry?
I said it was a racially motivated murder because this guy had absolutely no other reason to be kneeling on his neck for that long.
I’m not houdini, I don’t know what that officer was thinking but if one thing happens too much you get what’s happening especially since america has a history of institutionally criminalizing black men within their criminal justice system.
Countless studies have shown that African Americans who enter prison could expect to serve more time than whites for the same exact crimes.
The reason why your question is deflective cause you aren’t making any arguments. You just keep asking questions, and whenever I answer said question you just ask another question that’s increasingly off topic and I’m not falling for that logical fallacy.
The question was not about “white misandry” it was about black men, in particularly George floyd and if what happened to him was racially motivated. So yes, stay on topic.
Another tip is if you’re going to provide statistics cite your evidence, I’ve provided you links to my evidence so if you’re going to make claims than I’m going to expect you to do the same.
You have no argument. You realized your logic about the disproportionate number of black people being killed by police is not an indicator of racial motivated murders is flawed.
Because the disproportionate number of one group of people does not necessarily mean that there is hatred behind the reasons for killing them.
It wasn't murder! He was dying of an OD!! He was already yelling that he couldn't breathe before the cops even touched him! He killed himself with drugs!! End of story!!
It can't be racially motivated if it wasn't murder. Inb4 but the court decided it.
Well, the autopsies both claimed that at best the stress in that situation added to the death - but definitely had more to do with him being on an overdose of drugs.
Regardless - a person who puts a gun onto a pregnant womans stomach is better of dead anyway. World's a better place without him.