Okay, so you know these discussions about race and ethnicity and that some black people still make white people accountable for what happened to their black ancestors and that some white people respond with "Why are you making me (us) accountable for what my (our) ancestors did?" it and so on. So what I ask myself, why shouldn´t they? I mean it was also their (black people) ancestors, who were enslaved from their homes and families, raped, treated like objects and tortured in the most dehumanizing manner and still, many black people nowadays are still suffering for these things their ancestors went through (racism, discrimination, hate for their skin color and of stereotypes which were established in the 17th century, ...). White people on the other hand seem to have a serious problem with it being accused or being made responsible for what their ancestors did but haven´t gotten any consequences of it while black people are still suffering for what their ancestors gone through. You see the imbalance right?
So what do you think?
Black people making white people accountable for what their ancestors did?
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Anonymous
(18-24)
+1 y
I would be willing to bet that if I did a little research into your family tree during the past 200 years, I would find at least one relative, and probably many more, who did some bad things and hurt a lot of people. Would you be willing to accept accountability for something these ancestors did?
The percentage of white slave owners were actually very low. Also, you know many white immigrants move to the USA every year. Should every white person be held accountable, even though none of their family ever owned slaves? For example, lets say a French family moves to the USA today. Do we tell them, "Welcome to the USA. Your skin is white, so we are holding you accountable for slavery in our country thst happened 200 years ago"?
Also, the American colonists did not invade Africa and snatch black people out of their homes. They are probably teaching that nonsense in schools through CRT. What actually happened was, the slaves were purchased in markets on the coast of Africa. The slavers were other black people from a different tribe. I never hear a black person suggesting that the blacks who were selling slaves should be held accountable. Guess what? This slavery is still going on today, in the same locations. There are an estimated 10 million slaves in Africa right now. You will not hear any black American showing concern or outrage at this. Why not? Those slavers are making a lot of money, right now, selling slaves. Why not make them accountable and make them pay restitution?
Another thing to consider is that the slaves taken to the USA were the lucky ones. The others were sent to places in South America where they were treated FAR worse. They were worked so hard, most did not live more than 6 months. The slave owners in those countries did not care, they worked them to death and replaced them.
One last thing to consider... Pretend that I have a time machine, and I have the ability to go back in time and destroy the ships of the stupid Americans going to Africa to purchase slaves. Imagine if I stopped that from ever happening. Would you want me to? Think about it. What happened with slavery in America was horrible and it is a stain on the history of the country, just as the treatment of the Indian people. Where would you be right now if this unfortunate chapter of American history had never occured?
I see the imbalance, and it's sad. But even Bible said "sins of a father must not pass on to the son. Each will pay for that sin that he himself did". Maybe these new generations are better and more conscious people? So why should they suffer for something their ancestors did? It's unfair as well. If you will feel any lighter... There are white people of Europe, namely all Slavic people, who never had colonies in Africa and who can't be blamed for racist slavery. Russia even had opportunity to do colonies, the empire was very rich, and they refused as they didn't believe in that. The rest of Slavic countries were too poor and probably would see it as useless even if they had money for that horror. So maybe you can feel a bit better about some "white" people. These ones in Slavic countries suffered under slavery, if they already were slaves, and it didn't matter were they white - as them all were white anyway. So. As for the US, I wish you good luck and that you resolve your ancient racist issues the best way possible, in peace and with dignity. ❤️
The reason why white people shouldn’t pay for what there ancestors did is because there not there great great grandparents. That the kind of stuff the Kim regime in North Korea do, say your grandfather helped the Japanese in WW2 well now you in 2021 are still in a prison death camp for what your grandfather did in the 1930s. we are individual not our grandparents we never owned slaves. also you have a lot of people on the west coast like myself who’s ancestors were white and were slaves to the Russians back when they owned Alaska and then escaped to what is now known as Washington and Oregon. White slaves build Alaska Oregon and Washington back in the 1820s why should ex-white slaves have to pay for ex black slaves. also if the federal government pays it will be everyone who pays reparations for people who fled from Vietnam to people to fled from Germany during WW2 and everyone else who came here after slavery. Reparations or just a bad idea. They were a good idea back in 1865 when slaves were first freed but not in 2021
Let's say one of your ancestors 50 generations ago stole something and the punishment for the crime was to have his hands chopped off. Does that mean that every person in your lineage since then should also have their hands chopped off, even though they never did anything wrong? If these people want their precious reparations, tell them to get them from their BLACK slave merchants in Africa that sold those slaves to us in the first place! White people were slaves LONG before blacks were! Do you see any of US begging for money from the descendants of those that made slaves out of our ancestors? It's ANCIENT HISTORY!! LET IT DIE, ALREADY!!! Didn't you ever hear anyone say that the more you pick at an open wound, the longer it's gonna take to go away? How do you know one of my ancestors enslaved one of theirs? Maybe everyone in my lineage deposed slavery! This whole thing is nothing more than just ANOTHER excuse to get free hand-outs for doing NOTHING! What's wrong with doing some WORK for your money?
I believe the expression is "::Laughs in Irish::".
My ancestors had nothing to do with what happened to the Africans taken as slaves. They were thousands of miles away, trying to fend off the people who were trying to enslave THEM. And all too often succeeding; no shortage of Irish slaves died in the plantations of the New World. The ones brought to what would become the US and Canada generally did better than those in the Caribbean (tropical sunlight not being good for those who evolved in a place where the sun is considered a myth), but slavery is still slavery, and it sucks.
What did my ancestors do? Well, in my case, they fought in the Civil War to END slavery, then fought in the labor wars to improve the life of the working man, going up against aircraft and machine guns with nothing more than hunting shotguns. We didn't bring you slavery, we brought you the weekend. And the minimum wage. And workplace safety laws. Are we held responsible for that? And what are black people held responsible for? How do think you're going to move from "social pariah" to "upstanding citizen" when personal accountability is considered a "microaggression"?
My people, too, played a terrible role in the underworld of this country; forming gangs and starting riots and killing each other like animals. We outgrew it. There was a time when we were competing with black people for the table scraps of "decent" white society. Today, that's all over, and we're just another category of white people. Do you think that happened because Irish-Americans blamed the actions of long-dead assholes on innocent people? That Kennedy took the White House because of WASP guilt? That race hucksters perpetuated the idea of OUR racial inferiority while claiming they worked to end it?
You see the imbalance, right?
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
I live in the US and I know and work with a lot of blacks who were not born in the US but rather emigrated from Africa. They are VERY different from African Americans and are actually much more successful than the average American, regardless of race or ethnicity. Why? Because they don't have a victim mentality and they work very hard and smart and they take personal responsibility for their own outcomes.
So what is the difference between those Africans and African Americans? In a word... culture. African American culture is based on a very self-defeating victim mindset. That culture is something that no one can change except African Americans themselves. And not only is it self-defeating, it also continually fans the flames of racism among non-blacks toward black Americans.
You and your people are the reason blacks in America have the problems they have, and only you can fix those problems. I know a lot of blacks who understand that and have no trouble admitting it to me, but they are terrified to stand up and say so publicly. That is the biggest roadblock standing in the way of your people rising up out of the condition you find yourselves in today.
The fault does not lie with others. The sooner you recognize that, the sooner you will see improvement in both your own circumstances and in the respect you get from others.
Be cause why should I pay them for work they didn't do and my grandparents are from Europe as is my mother's parents. We never owned slaves. this is as stupid as holding other people responsible for things they never did. Like your neighbor was drunk and killed someone with their car so I'm taking your car away for that person's irresponsible behavior. I didn't go to college cuz I couldn't afford it. But people like you want to hang me and everyone else for debt. That I was responsible enough to recognize I didn't want. these blacks are not entitled to my money because people I had nothing to do with owned slaves. Tell ya what find out what family's owned slaves no doubt are still wealthy file a class action lawsuit against their estates and get the money from the people who truly owe the debt. And keep your lazy money gabbing hands off my money. Get a job and earn your way. Like I did no one gave me anything dad died when I was 15 I went to work and lost the house after 5 years. And I've been working ever since but thats just the way it is. Get a effing job and quit blaming me for your problems. No one owes me nothing and I don't owe you or people who went into school loan debt
My family made much of its wealth trading in so called "n** cloth" cheap low grade wool unsuitable for general sale that could be bought off poor families and sold on to make clothes for slaves. Thanks to my ancestors many slaves had warm clothes and blankets but I'm yet to be thanked.
People are judged by what they do now not what long dead ancestors do. How do black know your ancestors didn't protest against slavery. Many poor cotton mill workers in england protested against slavery by refusing to work with slave picked cotton. Many white Americans died fighting to end slavery. But no, according to black logic every white was a slave owner.
Frankly some of my ancestors were enslaved and oppressed far more recently by white people then black americans and apart from holding the actual people who were responsible for it I see no reason in holding every white person responsible? Should they be mindful and aware of it yes but responsible no. Those same ancestors of mine probably also participated in the trafficking and selling of white european women but I had nothing to do with that. Some of my close family members also actually suffered serious oppression due to this so it feels wrong to claim that oppression as my own when I haven't lived it (apart from general racism). I respect other opinions though.
*I have north African ancestry - algerian.
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
This is extremely simple, I dont know why you are struggling with it:
People are responsible for their own actions, not the actions of other people.
You presumably wouldn't have difficulty in identifying that victim blaming is not an excuse, i. e. its not my fault i raped that woman, she was showing some skin on her ankles.
You shouldn't have any more difficulty with this.
Tell me, how many generations is this nonsense supposed to go on for?
These people who are complaining, have never known slavery, you know why?
I agree with you but you also leaving out how easily it is to influence people and cause a chain effect years down the line. If you grow up in a rough neighbor and you turn into a gangbanger (according to psychology that is predictable) then you are still responsible for your actions but because you are so ignorant you really didn't have much control over what you became. By time you wake from the mess your life is in shambles. Unless you had a dream or rebelled against the neighbor. But when everyone is buying in how many people do this. Most people are average... Cause everyone buys in. But yeah I believe if someone cheats on you and breaks your heart it is your responsibility to fix you. So we agree. Ignorance really is the issue. I believe at the very least we all should teach our kids race isn't real, not to be confused with ethnicity which is real. And show them the science in an organized, presentable fashion. That way they really believe race doesn't exist and we as a society can move on. Race is the root cause of racism. But no one seems to wanna fix the root... Makes no sense to me. Especially considering science and historical record has already proven from a biological perspective that race doesn't exist.
@PoliteSpeaker The term is social mobility, it is perhaps not unreasonable to claim that it is linked to race in the States but I would still argue that it is far more about class than race. I dont believe that a 12 toed country bumpkin with white skin has any more social mobility than someone who comes from an inner city ghetto.
In the United States you like to pretend that you dont have class, that anyone can come to America and strike gold or oil or invent a new product and get all the way to the top, but this is just nonsense, its no more true in the United States than it is anywhere else, the fact of the matter is that the deck is stacked, the game is rigged and those who come from wealth and power will retain their wealth and power. No doubt there are occassionally anomalies are there things like rags to riches and back to rags in X generations etc but generally speaking this is the case.
We have a Queen in the UK and until some what recently we had toffs riding through the countryside on horse back chasing foxes with a pack of dogs. Every one is keenly aware that there are haves and have nots and politicians and big businesses etc are all degenerate, lying thieves but what is also clear is that money does not buy class, no amount of coin will get you in with the blue bloods. Class isn't viewed as just social standing either, how you conduct yourself defines your class far more than coin ever could, so you dont need coin to have class.
Your political system in the United States is completely dysfunctional or non functional, you do not have anything like a democracy. Now Im not going to pretend that everything is peachy in Europe because it isn't but people here do have some power and the political discourse amoung the people is of a much higher standard, we are not having stupid arguments about abortion or gun ownership and we dont do so much flag waving. Nationalism is extremely undesirable here because we all still remember what happened on our doorstep in the 1930s and 40s.
America is a very young country and it shows, when you look back see a victory over the monarchs and think you have solved society but you didn't solve anything, you just exchanged one type of tyrant for another, there are some wise words in your constitution but none of you seem to understand what they mean and you certainly dont live by them.
In Europe when we look back we see that we have toppled monarchs before, we have defeated evil and tyranny before and we know that we can do it again, there is an uneasy peace between the rulers and ruled, we allow them to keep their positions only so long as they dont push us too far so when we are pissed off about something, they listen and do what they are told.
So for starters, you do realize that the north American slave trade as well as the practice itself was started by the Algerians, not Europeans, right? And you are also aware that the actual process of capturing and selling people into slavery was done mostly if not entirely by Arabs and other Africans, right? And you also realize that the majority of white Americans today not only didn't have ancestors owning slaves during that time, but weren't even in the country until after the civil war was long over, right? So even if your idiotic "sins of the father pass down to the son" policy had any ground to stand on in the first place, it's based on a historical lie.
Grow up, and get a life in the real world. The people and things you surround yourself with now are dragging you towards a future of perpetual misery and inadequacy.
Nobody can make you accountable for everything that was yesterday today is a brand new day that was a moment in time that we have nothing to do but but nobody seems to understand that right now what our government is doing is manipulating all of us and it's going to fuck all of us because they are doing race-bait questions even on here all you can be is be yourself that's it if somebody wants to give you shots for something your great-great-great-great-grandfather did come to fuck off and die if they're race is starting to get off the fucking planet we don't have time for this shit we need to unite as one there's going to be some shit going down here pretty soon and we better get it together as one fuck all this five-year-old bulshit grow the fuck up it's what I have to say
And by the way that wasn't to you the answer of this question that was not to you that was too any races out it doesn't want to be a part of the solution they want to be a part of the problem
Sorry, but nobody alive knows anyone that knew anyone that knew anyone that was a slave. It pisses me off that if the black person doesn't get X (X can be whatever.. job, money, part in a movie...) then it is racism. But if the white person works their butt off and gets something, then they say they don't deserve it and should have handed it all to a black person. Bullshit. The best person for the job should get the job, regardless of color. The spot in a University should go to the students that meet the criteria, not just given to someone because of their color. And if the "N" word is so offensive, why do black people say it every other word? and don't give me this bullshit "we are taking the word back". It is either offensive or it is not.
It is a US government justice issue. White people are not the us gov, even though they set it up and wrote and amended the constitution with almost no participation from black peoples except for about 5 years 1865-1870 and then again not until Thurgood Marshall shows up in. The 1960s.
See Attorney Antonio Moore and Organizer Yvette Carnell. It is being advocated as a justice issue. Not as a racial or generational issue. And white bigots need to stop whining like little bitchy babies and engage the system they set up to tilt it back in the camp of injustice which they set it up to be.
But y’all lazy AF and entitled adult toddlers. So we’ll see where this is gonna go, now won’t we?
@purplepoppy I think you should be the last to talk on anything concerning race. I've seen you literally call Black girls chimps on this very site. As many of you have said stop "chimping out".
But I release you to your highest good. Race doesn't exist (ethnicity does) and we need to all accept that. The science is there. Go do your research. The problem is ignorance and we need to start working together to fix Americans not damn colors. Lincoln lost his life cause of what he did. So did many others. We owe it to the great men like Lincoln or Samuel Adams, to do right by all Americans.
I think I don't give a shit. I've done nothing, my ancestors were europeans, peasants for the most part, even if I considered my ancestors fault was passed on me, there would literally none to pass. And most likely, 90% of white people are the same. Also, why don't black people ask the same to arabs, since they were also huge slavers? Or Africans, since they were the ones selling their people to slavers? That kind of speech can be summed up in "give me free shit because of a history I haven't lived but I've stolen it for my own benefit". And they'll ask it to white people, not because they're more guilty than anyone, but because white people are the only one blaming themselves for everything in the world and it's easy to make them feel guilty.
ok 2 can play at that game... shouldn't we hold blacks accountable for being inferior enough to be enslaved in the first place? i mean by the 1400s Europe had a dozen cities that were more than 1000 years old... africa had zero. infact blacks sold eachother as slaves so infact blacks are at fault for slavery.
its their own fault they were so far behind technologically
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR we could just accept that there is no civilization that doesn't engage in such things and get over it. it is impossible to have a history not filled with violence
Should I also be responsible for the sins of my ancient forest dwelling four legged mammalian ancestors? Or how about the sins of the cells in a pool of primordial soup of ancient earth? Certified “some” white peoples’ ancestors were involved in the slave trade and in possession of slaves but by far the vast majority of white people had no part in slavery. You also need to know blacks were enslaved by other blacks and your own race frequently betrayed you by selling captured blacks to the white man. Slavery had existed since time began and by many different races.
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
The problems in the black community can only be fixed by blacks. No one else can fix them. The longer you deflect attention from that fact and don't take responsibility for your own shit, the longer your people will suffer.
The longer you continue to try to blame people today for what happened in the past, the longer you will perpetuate resentment and hatred toward your people.
If you want to be treated with respect, be respectable.
If you want to be treated as equals, try to behave as equals.
The ball is in your court. Start trying to play the game instead of just whining and pointing fingers at others who literally have nothing to do with your cultural and societal failures.
I think Black people should hold themselves accountable for their Black African ancestors capturing and selling other Black Africans into slavery. Many to choose from. Gambia. Nigeria Senegal Ghana Cameroon Ivory Coast Guinea-Bissau and Mali Angola Congo Gabon Zaire. We just provided transportation and marketing services.
0
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
I remember when Black Panther came out and the social justice warriors made it out to be the first black superhero movie or something like that (which is hilariously wrong). There was apparently a lot of talk on Twitter about there being black only showings of it, much like there being female only showings of the first Wonder Woman movie, to "stick it to the white man" as if that was going to make a difference.
It turned out that the very lesson the bad guy learned in the movie was to not blame the decendants for the actions of their ancestors. The SJWs shut the hell up really fast not long after it released and tried to memory hole that movie... to no avail.
Everyone is accountable for their own actions, not the actions of others. If your great grandfather committed a murder and it just came to light, should you be arrested for it? Of course not. You didn't do it.
So do we blame people born in Germany today for what the Nazis did? And if you dig into the truth of the slave trade you will find that there were black kings that sold their own people. Arabs were also involved in the slave trade. It is a very complicated issue and some just want to find an easy answer and they don't care about the truth. The reality is that there is a modern slave trade that we are ignoring.
