Basic fact on COVID, how effective do thing the Vaccine had been and do you think COVID is legit or BS?

[DaveJord]

I am not a scientist but I can do some basic math and the numbers don't add up to me.

So in the United States 878 thousand have died of COVID... that's an undeniable fact. The total population of the United States is roughly 329 Million. So 878,000 divided by 329,000,000 equals.2668 for argument shake let's round that to.27%.

100%-.27% = 99.73% of all Americans have survived COVID in the last two years, regardless if they have been vaccinated, exposed, infected or hospitalized. Every American has always had less than 1% of a chance from ever dyeing from COVID. This mathematical fact has remained constant throughout the entire pandemic.

Percentage Calculator: percentagecalculator.net

So in between March 2020 to 2021... there were 377 thousands deaths in the US due to COVID. So that was at the beginning of the Lock Down which was March 2021.

Since the Lock Down the total deaths have increased from 377K to 878K... which means post lock down and vaccine 500,000 in less than a year... so more Americans have died of COVID then died pre-lock down and pre-vaccine.

So why are scientist not more transparent about the mathematical facts?

Mathematically speaking what was ever the realistic danger?

Honestly why have more people died post vaccine then pre- vaccine when prior to the vaccine there were less deaths and all we to rely on was natural immunity?

Given that we have a entire millennia of human history as prove natural immunity works and only two years of changing science that is indefinitive on COVID.

So how effective is the vaccine and do you think its all a bunch of BS?

Updates

+1 y

The vaccine costs between $1.20 to $2.80 per vaccine to produce. So far Pfizer/ Moderna have received $8.25 BILLION in public support and funding. Sl

So I ask again who do think is putting out all these studies on vaccines, and hype over COVID?

[ohshee]

Okay so if you really want to do some research do this go back 15 years look in the fish tape every city on the planet at the end of the year as a death toll they tell you how many people died in that City or that state what's the cause of death was the biggest cause of death is common cold you would not believe how many people die of the common cold you have gunshot wounds overdoses car accidents cancer pregnancies so on and so on they will list at least 20 to 30 ways people had died and they will give you a total on how many died of that cause and then go back 14 years 13 years 12 10 9 8 7 so on and so on until you get to the covid state oh death
2 years ago nobody in my state died of a gunshot wound cancer common cold nothing nobody died of anything except for covid-19 now is my grandparent passed away from old age or from a heart attack or something I would want that stated on the death certificate is every death certificate said the people died of covid-19
Here's the other thing when the News tells you that the hospital is loaded up with all these people dying from this new covid-19 go down to the hospital and check and see how many people are actually there you won't see very many at all is quiet
There's a big Plumbing outfit in town since day one of covid the day that you would walk into that building there's a girl there with a thermometer she's going to take your temperature if you have a temperature you're not allowed in that's just the rules to this day she still doing that over 2 years now I asked her a few days ago when I was in there how many people have you had to turn away and she said not one this is out of 2 years over 200 to 500 people go into this building every single day I have done so much research sure there is a covid-19 I'm not a doctor so I don't know what these people die from how many people really died all I know is that his greed is greed in the screen if you really want to know what I think it's greed check it out the same day three days maybe before or after 5G came out then we had covid-19 over a thousand scientists all over this country all over the planet study 5G they said do not fire up 5G because it will give symptoms of this its exact same symptoms of covid-19 they stated before covid-19 did the people who died of blood clots and then five months later covid came out with this same scenario is also is supposed to change the molecules in our water if it changes the molecules in our water we are toast we are done it's called greed the rich getting richer the poor getting poorer you not only have that you have population control which we should have started doing something about that anyway for me I think it's been one big men manipulation there's been journalists that have been killed that are missing they're on top of the story and now they are missing because of what they found about covid-19

[NamerOfStars]

You're wrong on a couple of points, here. First off, it is NOT true that 878,000 Americans have died of Covid. They've died WITH it, but not FROM it- even the *CDC* admits that only 6% of those recorded as "Covid deaths" died exclusively from it, with no comorbidities (and given that the vast majority of those who died from Covid were well past seventy, and that "old age" isn't considered a comorbidity, it's even MORE lopsided). If you have TB and get shot in the head, did you die of TB? Of course not. Ditto for car crashes and heart attacks. But all three have been recorded as Covid deaths, because they died within 30 days of a positive Covid test. If their logic holds, then Covid's an absolute piker compared to the menace that is tooth decay; nearly every human being who's died in the last four thousand years has been killed by it- they had it when they died, after all.

But even among those who HAD other conditions, there are some (no way of knowing how many) who'd probably still be here if they hadn't caught it. So for the moment, we'll let that point slide. The bigger issue is that comparing the total population to those who died only means anything IF EVERYONE CAUGHT IT. If 878,000 people died, but only a million were infected, that makes for a very different number, no?

[DaveJord]

Well even though I agree with you on some points.. the facts still is in two years the deaths contributed to COIVD is less than 1 half of a percent of the total population... regardless if they had it, caught it or been exposed to it. There is really know way of knowing if you had it or been exposed to it if your A symptomatic and never were tested or had a need to be tested. So you have based your arguments on some unknown or unprovable theories.

What is fact 878,000 have died with COVID... that is not wrong. But I do agree that is an inflated number and honestly less (a lot less) have actually died of COVID. There are more people in the world today living with pre-existing conditions then there has ever been in history. Just 100 years ago a lot of them would of died long before COVID popped up on the radar. People living a lot longer... just 100 years ago most died before the age of 70. And honestly old people get old and died of something regardless of the science... so if your over 70 its more like dyeing of natural causes to me.

[Anonymous]

I don't think the vaccine is worth taking when there is so little research done on it, and the company's that created it aren't releasing the real data. Science has officially proven the natural immunity is more effective than any vaccine. Covid is real, but it is not as deadly as the government is making it sound like. The whole point of the pandemic was to scare the population into submission, and it worked.

[Soteris]

That is not really how any of that works. First of all, the deaths and infection data is not accurate but estimations. Of the two the infection number is more an estimation than the death number since while it might be easy to miss someone who was infected and showed no symptoms its harder to miss someone literally dying from it.

Surviving covid19 once does also not mean you will survive it again.

As for the numbers, part of science is that scientists publish all their numbers and how they calculate and decide their predictions. It is all publicly available and you can review it yourself.

As for why it kills more now than previously? Mostly because of the increased rate of spreading. More cases with the same or similar mortality means more deaths. Our measures to stop it such as vaccines, quarantines and social distancing etc.. mostly work on an all or nothing scale. Either you barely see the effects or it completely and utterly shuts it down. The middleground is very small where you start to see noticeable slowdowns.

As such until you see a very high vaccination rate (such as 90%+) or combo it with very successful strategies the rate of spread will look virtually unchanged. You have probably heard the term "flatten the curve" before. What that essentially means is not that they expect less people to be sick but that it will happen slower and under a longer period of time. To actually stop it requires drastic action which society has simply failed to do as a unified group.

As for natural immunity, it will not work. Just like how the common flu and other diseases keep coming back so too will covid19 if you want to try rely on natural immunity.

Mathematically speaking covid19 is turning out to be one of the most deadly pandemics in human history and might come in short of number 1 by the end of this. It is that serious.

[DaveJord]

I do really know... I think the bubonic plague was pretty bad.

But in the end what ever the discrepancy less than one half of a single percent of the population has died from COVID. And to say Natural Immunity will not work is stretch, because if it didn't work we would not have a planet populated by over 7 billion people we would of been wiped out thousands of year ago... so its easy to say it won't work, when factually it actually has for millennia.

Top 5 Plaques in history.

1. Black Death Bubonic plague 75–200 million dead
2 Spanish flu Influenza A/H1N1 17–100 million dead
3 Plague of Justinian Bubonic plague 15–100 million dead
4 HIV/AIDS global epidemic HIV/AIDS 36.3 million dead (as of 2020)

5. COVID-19 pandemic COVID-19 5.6–22 million (as of January 2022)[Note 3]

Note*** The lack of written records in many places and the destruction of many native societies by disease, war, and colonization make estimates uncertain. Deaths probably numbered in the tens or perhaps over a hundred million, with perhaps 90% of the population dead in the worst-hit areas. Lack of scientific knowledge about microorganisms and lack of surviving medical records for many areas makes attribution of specific numbers to specific diseases uncertain.

So COVID is one of the most accurately tracked and calculated Pandemics of all time... so the "estimates" are the best of all time... and globally only 22 million compared to 100s of million so yes makes the top five for as best as we know... but a far cry from being the worst.

[Soteris]

The Bubonic plague is currently the worst (by most metric) plague in human history and Covid19 seams unlikely to reach this number however it is still very possible that Covid19 will secure the 2nd position as it starts creeping up the lowest estimates of things like the Spanish Flu or Justinian plague. What makes covid19 so scary is not its mortality rate but its terrifying rate of spread.

As demonstrated, even with a deceptively low mortality rate of 1% or lower it is still more than enough to cause MASSIVE damage to humanity as a civilization. Worst part is that its probably never going to go away. We still have the decedents of past pandemics kicking about like the Spanish flu and bubonic plague.

Considering the frightening level of spreading covid will be even more relentless than the seasonal flu which is part of the remnant of the Spanish flu. Doubling up with a similar one is hardly the greatest idea which would be the result of relying on natural immunity. That is why I said it does not work, because successful diseases dont simply leave.

As for that note, its in relation to the new world pandemics which was not caused by a single disease and as such those hundreds of millions is divided up among tens if not hundreds of different pandemics. 200 million deaths as an example divided by 10 as an example is 20 million deaths which is less than covid19.

[Soteris]

Who is putting out all the studies? Basically everyone with the ability to. It is THE pandemic right now. Literally the holy grail of disease research. There has been over 5000 separate studies by pretty much everyone everywhere around the world.

It is also a worldwide disaster to both governments and economies so there is literally no end to the interest and funding dedicated to the subject. Everyone with a stick in the game wants it fucking gone.

[HighValue]

Actually 94% of people that were listed as dying of covid died from other health problems like diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc. It is in the CDC's own statistics. So in reality there are less than 54,000 dead specifically from covid. There is also 21,700+ dead from the vaccines and over 170,000 adverse effects according to VAERS statistics.
Covid has killed the same or less people than the regular flu since in the 10 years before covid the regular flu averaged between 12,000 to 61,000 deaths per year. And the 54,000 from covid is over more than a two year period.

[DaveJord]

Would love to see where you are getting those numbers from. Can you site a source?

[ChrisMaster69]

Another way to look at the Covid deaths, removing the Covid part.

Would the US stomach a war where it lost 800k of troops on a war in 2 years?

Would the public accept it?

Article here for the UK about how deaths are recorded, we had a story with people basically saying ‘well he had diabetes, a heart condition etc’ and that’s what killed them. The thing is our Office of National Statistics does not record deaths that way, yes they are pertinent but the people recording this information are aware of false reporting other stats and it’s their day job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60145237

[OddBeMe]

Not effective at correcting grammar. Who taught you to form sentences?

The vaccines are proving to be immensely effective against the variants. Especially when coupled with boosters. I don’t get how people wolf down disgusting McRibs but then demand to secede from the Union over a pin prick that saves lives.

[DaveJord]

No offense, but who taught you to be a condensending jerk. Its social media not college class... 🤨🤫

[OddBeMe]

Ooh, snowflake I see.

[Twalli]

The virus mutates changing its infectiousness and danger. Generally the omicron variant won't kill you. It is a lot more infectious but a lot less deadly.
As for the survival rate, it was also high for the flu pandemic in 1919. The survival rate is only for statistical purposes. Look at it this way, less than a fraction of 1% of the world did in wars. Yet we say the death toll is really bad. The total number of deaths is more important if you aren't doing statistical research.

[DaveJord]

Not sure what you think statistical research is?

[Twalli]

I do. Point is that if 1% of the world population dies, from this virus and we're at 7.5 billion people that's an extremely large number of people.

[DaveJord]

I only said less than 1% of the United States population not he worlds. And the actual percentage i.26%

1% of the 7 Billion is 78 million by the way. United States is at 878K dead, 1% of the United States population (329M) would be 3.29 Million.

And a lot of scientist belief over population is reaching a critical level as it is.

"Many scientists think Earth has a maximum carrying capacity of 9 billion to 10 billion people."
www.livescience.com/...e-planet-earth-support.html

So losing 1% of the dead wait may be the best thing for future generations.

[Twalli]

Who constitutes the "dead weight"?

[Anonymous]

By the time the vaccine was available, COVID was more wide spread. It makes sense that more people died after the vaccine was available.
However, I'm not sure our respective governments will be on the right side of history in their handling of COVID. It's been a very expensive experiment in people control for a disease that kills the elderly and infirm.
And you can argue about the deaths number. It's the way they measure them. Dying of COVID is not the same as dying with COVID.

[joeldalton]

Let's slow down on your undeniable fact. How many died FROM covid vs. WITH covid?

[DaveJord]

Good point for argument sake let's say less than 99% of people died with COIVD and not just because of COVID. :-)

[joeldalton]

The responses to covid have been a crime against humanity. And the guilty parties need to be tried and executed for their part in it.

[DaveJord]

****Sorry less than 1% did with COIVD and over 99% survived

[Soteris]

Easy. Excess deaths tells us pretty exactly how much people have died FROM covid19.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris no. If you die of a heart attack and have covid, they count it as a covid death. You didn’t die of covid, you died of a heart attack.

[DaveJord]

True really hard to tell when comes to pre-existing conditions... sure they died maybe because of COVID but would they have survived otherwise? We have more people in the world today then ever before with preexisting conditions that never would of lived long enough to get COVID a 100 years ago.

[Soteris]

The beauty of excess death is that it does not lie. People who died from heart attacks did so last year and the year before that and the year before that etc.. They are easy to predict and cancelled out in the percentage change from year to year hence the smooth line in the graph leading up to the pandemic. Anything beyond that small squiggly line leading up to the big spike is caused by some massive event, like a pandemic, which has a clear start point and a clearly defined correlation with recorded infections.

While we dont know exactly who died from what, this graph can tell us pretty exactly HOW many in total has died from covid19. If covid19 had not happened then the line would have continued as normal and all those people would not have died then and there.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris Where are the people who died of flu?

[Soteris]

People die of the flu every year. Things that does not change are removed from the graph so that it reflects anomalies of people either dying less or more than normal.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris people didn’t die of flu in 2020. Weird, huh.

[Levin]

"Easy. Excess deaths tells us pretty exactly how much people have died FROM covid19."

This would be logically correct all things being equal. Let's not forget that the government (in the UK and elsewhere) gutted the fabric of society as we know it. Plus we know there is a lot of dubiety around DNRs, sending people back to residential homes to effectively die on Midazolam. I'm only scratching the surface here. There is a certain notion that there is no physical health without mental health, and vice versa. People were isolated. Instilled with fear. Mentally destroyed. Many lost hope. Many are permanently mentally scarred. Many anecdotes of relatives declining through not having contact with their family members. There were those who were having heart attacks, but too scared to go to hospital for fear of catching covid. The government and the media ratcheted up the fear, used psychological manipulation strategies because certain people were not 'sufficiently scared enough'. I'm not sure which ethical framework these lunatics were working to, but it wouldn't fly in any ethical framework I work to.

But we cannot reasonably deny that many suffered and died as a result of the lockdown measures. Well, except we can, if we're desperately trying to paper over the cracks, to keep a certain extreme narrative going that the only harm that ever mattered was the one derived from covid.

With regard to the US, again, 40% of Americans are obese, two thirds are overweight, and as far as I'm aware, at least 1 in 2 adults has one or more chronic disease. The population is chronically unhealthy as a whole. Please let us take a broader view here.

I crimes with joel with regard to crimes against humanity. But we know that such grievous crimes no longer are crimes when they're perpetrated by the many.

[Soteris]

@Levin Well this is a load of horsecrap. First of all, few countries in the world had a good track record of elderly/patient care in the first place. Neglect, abuse and physical violence is the norm and not something new to this pandemic. It is also very silly to attribute such a large change in excess death to such a flimsy cause when literal wars and disasters measure about as much as the squiggles beforehand.

You also ignore the fact that we can compare the excess death to other statistics to see what similarities we can find as identifiers. For example, the almost identical number of covid19 infection reports. Furthermore, considering the extreme uptick in excess death we would also easily identify other trends. For example, its fairly easy to identify heart attacks and many other causes of death as separate from covid19. Scientists would not make such a simple mistake with such an obvious mountain of evidence.

Funny enough, people did examine the lockdowns effect on society. Turns out our actions have actually gone a long way to protect us from various other causes of death such as the flu which is down a lot from usual.

As for the obese argument, its just an attempt to misdirect the blame towards the victims. The patterns of deaths and infections is similar in countries will lower obesity rates.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton If people did not die from the flu in 2020 the graph would go down into the negatives to indicate that more people that normal avoided dying. Learn to read graphs.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris or flu deaths were counted as covid deaths.

[Soteris]

Does not matter. Flu deaths incorrectly counted as covid19 deaths do not show up on that graph.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris It does matter when you’re basing these stupid measures based on the case count

[Soteris]

Excess death is only counting number of deaths and does not account for the cause. The cause is something you can infer based on the shape of the graph such as the big spike happening at a very specific time and having very similar characteristics to the separate graph showing the recorded infections.

Why are you always so bad at reading facts?

[joeldalton]

@Soteris why are you always defending the narrative. I clearly showed you that flu “disappeared”. This is a total fabrication of numbers but your dumb ass is like “oh yeah nothing to see here”. Fucking npc tool.

[Levin]

This is a topical article, given what I talked about here, and to be fair, for the past two years:

dailysceptic.org/.../

Someone's comment: "I work with people in their twenties and thirties who have stayed indoors at home for most of the past two years. It’s possible that they will never come into work again. It’s not just because they find home-working more congenial. They are still terrified of ‘catching it’. Most of them will have been triple-stabbed, they test relentlessly, wear masks when they have to go outside, fret over the R numbers and ‘cases’ and so on. I think the propaganda was pushing at an open door with some people. They actually prefer this mode of life. It’s pitiful really. They have outsourced responsibility for their own adult social existence to the media/medical/state trinity and instead of living like free human beings they have chosen to merely subsist like frightened cattle waiting for the pharma to administer the next injection. "

[joeldalton]

@Levin spot on quote.

[Levin]

MPs Launch Investigation into Government Covid Propaganda After Psychologists Criticise Nudge Unit For “Grossly Unethical Tactics” of Fear. The Government’s “grossly unethical” use of its “nudge unit” stoked fear among the public during the pandemic, psychologists have said – prompting MPs to launch an investigation into the Government’s Covid propaganda. The Telegraph has the story.

As usual, nothing to say from Soteris about the government's wholesale destruction of the population's mental health. It's merely incidental, he says. A mere triviality. Fuck off.

"As for the obese argument, its just an attempt to misdirect the blame towards the victims. The patterns of deaths and infections is similar in countries will lower obesity rates. "

Do you struggle with nuance? Can you only think in black and white terms? Clearly, the individual does bear some responsibility for their health. Many devious forces may act upon the individual, but the individual still at least bears a good chunk, if not the majority of responsibility for his own health. It's fucking baffling to me, that I can tell you 40% of the population are obese, and it's like the passing of a breeze for you. Why didn't you want people to lose weight? Would that be too unrealistic, impossible, too much weight of 'individual responsibility' for people to get off their fat arses? Don't you care about reducing mortality? Why should people who actually bother to look after themselves and their health, be punished by fat arses who haven't gone for a walk in 4 years, but deem themselves healthy because they been stabbed with an experimental witches' brew.

What a bunch of fucking fruitloops.

[DaveJord]

@Levin i think its termed astroturfing

[Soteris]

@Levin This is just sad. First of all, the state of mental health around the world is and always has been an issue. It is not an issue that has increased the amount of deaths at the rates seen during the pandemic. It is a completely separate issue that could be talked about however has absolutely no relevance to covid deaths.

Secondly, the real threat of covid19 is demonstrably true through the statistics of excess death I provided. It is irrefutable evidence of the true severity of the pandemic in all its forms related to death. You can not argue with this, your link can not argue with this, I will not entertain such stupid claims such as bad mental health leading to pandemic scale numbers of deaths. This is especially true when I am well aware of just how big of an issue this was long before covid19 which means bad mental health is mostly already accounted for in the numbers for excess death.

As for your asinine argument against obese people, "looking after your health" includes taking medical actions such as receiving vaccination. You are shooting yourself in the foot.. repeatedly.. and thinking you somehow got one over on me. It is embarrassing for the both of us. Stop it.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton You did not prove jack shit. You asked where the people who died of flu was on that graph. They are literally at the 0 line. That is how the graph works and what makes it useful.

[Levin]

@Soteris I didn't say it of itself, was responsible for the magnitude of increased deaths. Reading comprehension required. I said it was overall destructive for the nation's wider health and well-being. Covid may have been the overall driver of excess deaths, but there were certainly other factors involved, including idiotic and destructive government policies. I've not mentioned other things, such as exterminating disabled people, and waiting lists which now top 6 million. Again, nuance. Stop misrepresenting my argument.

Going off memory, excess deaths in 2020 in the UK were 80000. About 14% greater than usual. The 9th most deadly year in the past twenty years, once the figures had been age and population adjusted.

"includes taking medical actions such as receiving vaccination." That is debatable, especially when said vaccine is still experimental and we don't know what the long term effects may be. Keep worshiping your new religion.

[Soteris]

@Levin My argument: Mental health in elderly care has virtually no effect on the overall excess deaths. I say that both as someone who has worked in elderly care and alongside nurses doing house visits to elderly and sick/disabled people to assist them in their daily life. It has no place in this conversation of the damages of the pandemic and there is not really any massive change in the quality of the health and lives of elderly. I am not saying that because they are not suffering, I am saying that because they were already suffering just as badly beforehand. I should know, I fucking worked in the industry.

Taking medical action is not debatable. What personal choice could possibly be more related to your personal health than things directly related to your health? Also this whole "experimental drug" thing is getting old. Covid19 vaccines is one of the most researched medicine in the world right now and it has been under development for like 50 years.

[blueflameleo]

I don’t think it has been effective and I Bo think it’s bs

[Gwenhwyfar]

The vaccine works. Plus it’s free and harmless.

[DaveJord]

Not saying the Vax does or does not work... or that it is harmful. Do think COVID was really all that it was built up to me to begin with. Was the cure more harmful than the disease?

[Gwenhwyfar]

COVID is all it’s cracked up to be abs the cure is definitely not more harmful than the disease (unless you’re a tiny minority of people or those people who got blood clots from the J&J vaccine).

[joeldalton]

Absolutely not "harmless". Quit spreading misinformation.

[Gwenhwyfar]

@joeldalton except for the part in parentheses it is

[joeldalton]

oh, ok. So by that metric, Covid is harmless (unless you're in the tiny minority of people who died from it).

[DaveJord]

Or got laid off, or had to pay for daycare because schools where closed, got stuck with a mortgage because the housing market suffered and you had to take a loss on the sell. Or could go out and were forced to isolate, what about the mental health factors of that... or couldn't go to the gym and put on weight... there a lot of indirect consequences to the shut down.

College Athletes losing a whole year of eligibility to play their sport, high school prom being canceled... man could you imagine losing you whole senior year of high school to COVID for something you had a better than 99% of surviving regardless of a vaccine?

[Gwenhwyfar]

@joeldalton no. COVID is much more dangerous than the vaccine. COVID has killed 800 some thousand people (actually I heard over a million) in the US alone. The vaccine has killed a lot less.

[DaveJord]

Small businesses going out of business. man the list goes on...

[joeldalton]

@DaveJord the response to covid has been a crime against humanity. The elderly sacrificed the lives of the younger generations for the illusion of safety.

[joeldalton]

@gwenhwyfar so then the shots are not harmless. What you said was a lie.

[Gwenhwyfar]

@joeldalton harmless except for a tiny minority, which I noted in parentheses

[joeldalton]

(800,000 people is a tiny minority of 330,000,000.) so then covid is harmless. I noted it in parentheses so you can understand it better

[Gwenhwyfar]

@joeldalton but it’s a lot more than the very small number of people who got sick or died because of the vaccine

This is fun 😊

[joeldalton]

You think it's fun to be ignorant?

[Gwenhwyfar]

@joeldalton ignorance is bliss 😍

Sorry. I’m just sparring with you.

[DaveJord]

@joeldalton no name calling please.

[Slingblade1126]

800,000 people didn't die from covid. The cdc admitted as much. The director actually said there is a group that died "from" covid and a group that died "with" covid. Of course we'll never know the true numbers because #1: the tests have been faulty from day one and #2: the cdc is a fucking embarrassment and will never come clean about their lies and distortions of the numbers. Not to mention the hospitals skew the numbers. Just three days ago my uncle died from dementia and supposedly tested positive for covid. Guess what his cause of death was listed as?

[DaveJord]

@Slingblade1126 Agreed

[Juxtapose]

(Obligatory smart ass comment)

[MrSmithee]

30% no