Some history... in 2013... a "coup" threw out the Pro Russian Ukraine president... USA was there in support if not instigation. In 2014 USA and the West were pushing a policy of democracy and inclusion of Ukraine into NATO. Russia said "no way" to NATO and missiles on their border... they invaded and took Crimea. Russia put after 7 years of war and saw this as security concerns... and that is the conflict you see on tv. That is one view, not the only one, which says... your country had a hand in making this mess!
A good presentation with this perspective...
Putins view... "Caused by the western politicians".
In any conflict, it's critial to listen to the other side. The Western view of this matter... well you see that on TV and it's not good.
This is War... and if not defused, is going much deeper. What are you willing to do in the interests of peace... given you had a hand in the matter? Do you feel responsibility?
Opinion: I feel responsible, I want to pressure my govt to defuse this before it gets a lot worse. Never back a BEAR into a corner... especially a wounded BEAR.What are you willing to do? Wake up people
I feel responsibility... I'll listen... PRESSURE my govt to resolve the issue peacefully
I'm responsible... I'll listen... Go and fight for Ukraine, I'll die for...
I don't believe we USA/West are resposnbile, I'll die fighting Ruskies (because they are wrong)
Were not responsible, but I'm gonna hide and avoid it... and run if there is a draft
Something else
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"Western view is not good" ... meaning, it is the opposite of what the other side says and is in conflict to their view of security.
USA, how responsible do you feel you are for igniting the war in Ukraine, and what are you willing to do about it to end the war?
You need more history... but, yes, to a large extent, you are right.
What was the cause of WW 2? How the victors treated the losers of WW 1.
Why was there was no WW 3? How the victors treated the losers of WW 2.
Why is there now a Cold War 2? How the victors treated the losers of Cold War 1.
========= After WW 1, the allies treated the Germans like shit. Feeling like shit, the Germans were happy to embrace a demagogue like Hitler and it was his obsession that led to WW 2.
But, after WW 2, the allies recognized the mistake they had made and, furthermore, did not want Europe or Japan to become communist nations, so the American initiated the Marshall Plan which rebuilt Europe and Japan and created the modern western world as we now know it.
However, when the Iron Curtain fell in 1989 ultimately leading to the end of the Soviet Union, then-President George H. W. Bush aka "Bush 41" has a choice to make: 1) Engage the Russians with whatever aid and economic ties to integrate Russia with the rest of Europe similar to The Marshall Plan after WW 2. OR 2) Adopt a wait-and-see attitude and do nothing.
Bush 41 opted for #2. Furthermore, instead of adopting a respectful attitude, the people of this country were not shy in saying "We won!" and "We are the only superpower left; in other words, being a "sore winner".
That infuriated me 30 years ago and it infuriates me today, because anyone who knows human nature knows all that does is stoke the other side for revenge...
... and that's exactly what happened. Former KGB operative Putin rose like Hitler taking over after Boris Yeltsin resigned on 31 DEC 1999. He wants to see Russia's esteem return to greatness just like during the Soviet Union, but not as a communist state.
This was all very predictable 30 years ago. So much so that former US President Richard Nixon predicted it too and he was vocal about disagreeing with the Bush 41 Administration about this.
The critical part of the interview: ==== KING: Ben Bradlee, the former editor of "The Washington Post," said, one of the tough problems when you're the only voice in town -- and for a while "The Post" was. Now we have, of course, "The Washington Times." -- it's harder. It's easier when there's competition to produce a great daily newspaper, because when there's no competition, there's no competition. We're the only superpower. Is that harder for us now?
NIXON: The responsibility is greater. It is greater because before, when we had the rivalry of the Soviet Union, it meant that we could mobilize the West against what they were doing, and people could get charged up to do what we needed to do to keep ourselves strong economically, politically and, of course, militarily.
Now, with the enemy gone, in effect, although we cannot assume that five centuries of Russian expansionism is forever gone simply because we've had for one year. or almost a year, a democratic government in power. But with that danger gone, it is much more difficult to mobilize the people of this country in support of an effective foreign policy. But we need an effective foreign policy now because we are the only superpower, because there are other dangers in the world.
Let's look at the world since the end of World War II. There have been 140 wars, and in those wars eight million more people were killed than were killed in World War I. Now that's going to continue. Nuclear weapons are being...
KING: Wars are going to continue?
NIXON: That's right. Wars are going to continue in the future, Iran-Iraq, the Iraqi war that we've been through just recently. All over the world today, there are places that are going to explode. The Mideast is explosive. KING: Yugoslavia.
NIXON: Yugoslavia we know is a problem. The possibility of the Koreas, it's still there despite this temporary truce they have. And then, of course, there's the possibility of war between India and Pakistan. Who knows where it will happen?
KING: What do we do then? How do we seize that moment?
NIXON: Well, we have to seize the moment by providing the leadership for the whole world and not just the free world. And one way to seize that moment is to develop a good relationship with the new republics of the former Soviet Union. Yeltsin must not fail, because if he fails it means that not the communists will come back but an authoritarian old guard will come back.
KING: So we must help?
NIXON: We must help without question.
KING: Financially?
NIXON: We must help financially, but, Larry, this time as compared with after World War II -- and I was there. John F. Kennedy and I, we worked, voted together for the Greek-Turkish aid program in the 80th Congress. And that was the beginning of containing communism. But then we were the only player. The -- all our allies were devastated by the war, and the Germans and the Japanese were our defeated enemies, and they were devastated. And we had to put out the money. We put out $400 billion over the past 40 years in foreign aid.
Now it's a different game. Those that we helped, the Japanese and Germans, are the next two strongest economies in the free world. The rest of Europe, Japan and the rest, must assume the primary burden for providing the transitional funds, the humanitarian aid that Russia and the Soviet Union needs at this time. The U. S. cannot do it alone. We should simply provide, however, the leadership.
Let me tell you something son. And I am saying son to a 55 year old man, because you are ignorant child. I was born in the USA during the 1970's, my father was a WWII Vet. I was raised during the 1980's. Lived under the threat of the Soviet Union. The threat of the Iron Curtain and nuclear holocaust. I was raised with the believe that one day my country would call upon me and it was destiny to fight and kill Russians. I served 22 years in the United States Army, and fought in three wars, 4 Combat Tours... I have 2x Bronze Stars, 3 Army meritorious Service Medals and Joint Defense Service Medal. I have seen war first hand.
My only regret in life is that I never got my chance to fulfill my destiny. And now it falls this to generation of Americans to learn the true value of freedom.
All our crap that you wrote above amounts to bullshit for one simple reason. The United States has no boots on the ground. The independence of the Ukraine is being fought for by Ukrainians not Americans. They have took the field of battle to stand alone against Russian Aggression and they are truly hero's. Ukrainians are the probably the most noble people on this planet right now because they are fought the powerful Russian Army to a stand still. That is not something Americans can engineer or manufacture that type of fight comes from deep inside. It is forged in blood and bone. But you my Russian loving friend know nothing about that type of fight.
No comrade the United States is not pulling the stingers here. So go fuck yourself with this communist misinformation, propaganda bullshit. If you don't believe in God then you better start, I recommend you go to church tonight and fall to your knees praying that Biden doesn't get off his pansy ass and unleash the might of the West against you and rain holy hell upon you for crimes against humanity.
Trust me when I say the United States Military is all volunteer force. They are not conscripts force to fight, they are legends of professional soldiers that have been baptized in blood that will fight not because they are forced to but because they all would rather die with their sword drawn face to the enemy screaming defiance with the last breath.
I gave you thumbs up because I respect your opinion, not because I like being insulted. I understand your pain and perspective... especially given your view. My grandfather was killed in WWII, uncle ruined in vietname, and father survived the cold war. Thank you for your service, I can only imagine what you've seen and you should share it. You like most here mis intpret what I'm saying or I mis communicated, or possibly only see things black and white. There is a deep divide between perspectives... and that is the problem. There are different views as you can see from opinions and votes and sadly they are intrpeted as "you are USA or you are russian asset. Black and white polar opposites.
I am Christian, you will say I'm not. I am for resolving this to limit the loss of life unnecessarily, you are not by way of your thinking... you are in favor of totally wiping out ukraine or russia to crush communist russia, right? Is that love or is that rage? There was a time politicians would strive for peace, I don't see that at all now. If I understand your thinking... russians need to be faught to be replaced by something better. If that's the case, then why let ukraine "proxy war" this on the behalf of the world and get the west to the fight now... else you are hoping ukraine can "hold out" while 100k suffer in war. Putin will throw everything he's got at this... we agree on that right?
Have you had a deep intimate relationship with another human being and survived it.. emotionally? That is where I learned how human beings work and what is wrong in the human condition, gave me a deeper understanding of what the Bible and Christ were saying. Those who have not may not see it same. We are living the knowledge of good and evil right now (we agree on that I'm sure).. we think they are evil, they think we are evil... we think we are good... they/he think's their view is good. It's emotional damage causing these problems, poor communication and understanding, power, security, fear. A lot of people are going to suffer if we cannot reach across this divide and understand what putin has been saying and find resolution. Alternative is hope russia is overthrown within (taking putin out). but there is no safe answer... that could be worse... we learned that in Iraq right? Im on ukranian side, but I strive to understand the other party to defuse this bomb before too many of them suffer. I get the sense the other perspective (yours and others) wants this war and wants russia dealt with now. Is that right?
you dont' have to answer me, answer yourself. I'm striving to understand. Are you considering to fight in ukraine? I see some people are.
@lightbulb27 You are a Russian asset. Why? Because you post their propaganda and lies. Think before you post. This is Putin's war. He is the man whose penis assholes like Trump and Fucker Carlson have been blowing for the past few years. It is shameful and you people should feel deep, fucking shame. In fact you should be donating a sizeable chink of your income to the Ukrainian cause because of your unforgiveable transgressions. Start making up for your horrible sins. You basically supported Hitler, you ignorant fool.
@supercutebutt the division in perspective... is fascinating, is what needs to change before anything is sovled. I dont' support putin, never have, I support ukraine freedom and russia freedom. But want to blow up the world and all ukraine for it? nope. I ask a question and say up front "I feel some responsibility for this"... not so much because of trump.. he has some... but in history over the years of usa/west/russia conflict. but what you fail to see is how those of your view... hard position... is going to get a lot of people killed, possibly rolling over to the usa or other countries. my post is about perspective, maybe it was worded too strongly and people perceive it wrong. I really think there are some people whose minds only see things "this way or that way"... there's no inbetween. Others, see things "shades of grey"... that's me. I work to see the others viewpoint although I still have my "right and wrong." feel free to post a question on "what is your solution to ukraine conflict" or how do you think it will go. What we (USA) are doing looks good on paper, but puts ukraine on the front line of WWIII... while we continue funding russia with oil money. make sense of that for me please, enlighten my supposedly dull mind.
@supercutebutt I have to question if you've ever been in a confrontational yet successful relationship. that's the value of gag, to understand and sort out the complexity of relationships. It spans from male/female to police/citizens to AA/white and every other realm... and boyfriend/girlfriend. The world is amuck with incompatible perspectives and the solution is to learn and communicate. If we draw battle lines everywhere... well no wonder so many relationships fail. This is a relationship that can make millions suffer. That's how I see it. you are a genius... find a solution before all too many ukranians and russian solders pay the the price in the fires of the hell of war like this man's colleagues did. note: there may be none.
@lightbulb27 I will say this, I haven't seen you say one thing that makes a shit stain of a difference, in what must be the thriced soiled underwear your wearing.
Your like a women thats done nothing but physically and emotionally abused her husband, so one day after decades of restraint he stands up to you... and what do you do? You cry victim and make up bullshit excuses about shit that has nothing to do with things you have done. Your scrapping and clawing to find any way to escape blame... but unfortunately for you in this case, Putin has fucked him self. Russia has push the rest of the West too far this time. You my Russian loving comrade are about to feel some real pain.
You are about to learn what the true cost of your ignorant support of or complacent nature with Russian Government and Putin is going the cost you. Because unfortunately for you comrade Freedom is not free... you always got to be willing to pay the cost for it or it means nothing.
I am willing to pay for it, and I will cover the up front cost... but we will come collecting on that debt from you. Just say thanking sir, when show up.
Ukraine as a free country has the right to decide if they want to join NATO or the EU. If they want to or not, is their own choice, no one else has the right to say they can't.
No one can force them to join either, if they don't want to. Regardless of what the west did, they can't force it.
Russia doesn't want them to have free choice, they are also afraid of NATO invading even though that never would of happened, unless Russia attacked first.
NATO doesn't just invade countries for no reason.
Russia is afraid of a attack that would only happen if they started it, and if they were afraid of economic consequences of the oil, money and pipeline... wonder how they feel about the current economic consequences, seems way worse than what they were afraid of to begin with. The Ruble is now worth less than a penny.
Spot on. You are an intelligent lady. I see how your point of view have grown. Most people is incapable of listening even I would say or in general even refuse to see reason. So yeah.. proud of you, seriously.
Also sorry if I sounded harsh with my reply some days ago, wasn't my intention to sound harsh anyway. If even remember me anyway.
Anyways again.. You made my day, nice to see someone that gets it. You are awesome! :)
We always have to consider the consequences of our decisions on our neighbors. Agree otherwise. USA did not tolerate missiles in Cuba, wouldn't accept them in Canada pointed at us.
@Justerino That line of reasoning is already so dumb I don't know why people even dare to go there. France have nukes, UK have nukes. Joining nato does not = having nukes in that country. Estonia is part of NATO, so is Latvia, they don't have nukes, yet border to Russia, already argument invalid. Ukraine don't have nukes. Ukraine gave up nukes even in the promise of Russia never invading them. So if anything you should argue they should have Nukes, cause apparently it was a bad idea.
Let's not forget that nukes can be carried anywhere anyway, technically they can just put them on B52 and bomb anywhere on the planet. So invalid even further. Which of course too, Cuba and Ukraine is entirely different too, Cuba is not even considered free still.
@Malgaran B52? Our second strike capability is with our subs? Obviously you know nothing of modern warfare. would you be Ok with Russia loading these countries up with conventional ballistic missiles all aimed ONLY at the USA?
@Justerino Your point?, it's not like it's not doable, they did it with Hiroshima. although sure, B52 was just an example. What you are talking about is imaginary. Yes we can all imagine enemies at every corner every where. Reality, no nukes are being aimed at Russia from Ukraine, no plans for having any nukes aimed at Russia. You don't need Ukraine to aim Nukes at Russia. Like you said too submarines.. not like you can't take a submarine to the US or Russia and fire anyway that way too. So another mute point. Was randomly curious so I looked it up, Ukraine don't even have submarines anymore, they had 1 until 2014.
Since you like the Cuba example, this was after all in 1962. I'm sure you know the story they agreed to dismantle their missiles in Italy, Turkey for the US and Russia dismantled in Cuba. Apply same logic today.. Nothing to dismantle. Ops
@Malgaran I see you are getting quite emotional, you must not talk with people you disagree often. we actually do deploy nukes to Belgium Germany the Netherlands Italy and Turkey today. So would you be ok with Russia putting wnough conventional munitions near are border that they could saturate our entire countries air defense in minutes, really there is no counter to this except a first strike.
@Justerino There is nothing to be emotional about, beside being tired of all the stupidity of course. God I wish that was true. Deployed yes by NATO, I think you forget Europe is it's own thing too. is there any deployed in Latvia or Estonia, nope. That could be said both ways.. If there is no other way but first strike that means All of Europe should invade Russia. To flip the script back at you, why haven't the states invaded Cuba then? it's a Russian puppet country anyway, by same logic that way. USA have no choice, so chop chop, only been 60 years. The what ifs are clear according to you. Fantasy over reality.
But it's further stupid all of this, Ukraine would not agree to even store Nuclear weapons anyway cause it would break their promise to Russia, the irony with everything happening though, now they might future wise, which would never would have happen again either if Putin didn't invade. Not to mention again, based on this war all together, the people of Ukraine and Russia don't seem to have any much bad blood really, seem to see each other as family. Many people have families vice versa In Russia and Ukraine.
So yeah.. you are just advocating propaganda really, imaginary propaganda.
@Justerino A question that doesn't fit our current situation to put forth your own narrative which is more like propaganda. So, my question. Do you think Russia was justified then? Do you support this war?
@Malgaran sir, this is called a run on sentence: “ A question that doesn't fit our current situation to put forth your own narrative which is more like propaganda.” Im having trouble understanding can you please clarify? And I do not support this invasion or Putin’s Russia what so ever.
I'm not American, but the USA is not responsible. nor NATO for that matter.
Perhaps Westerners should have been less arrogant towards Russia following the fall of the USSR and moreover we should have accepted the hand extended by Putin who was more open towards the West.
That being said, Putin did not start the war because of NATO, Putin is very good that the USA would never have accepted Ukraine's entry into NATO, because they know the consequences very well. Moreover, the USA wants to concentrate on China, therefore they had no interest in wanting to provoke Russia with the entry of Ukraine into NATO.
Putin invaded Ukraine for historical and strategic reasons, but absolutely not because of the United States or NATO.
You are very naive. and this is touching. However you forgot that Russia had already invaded Ukraine, Poland etc., and that more than once in its history, while NATO did not even exist.
There are invariable things in the geopolitics of nations, study Russian geopolitics from Peter the Great until today and you will see a rather remarkable constancy.
Once again as I said, yes the Westerners showed themselves arrogant following the fall of the ussr and it was a mistake, yes we should have built a better relationship with Putin's Russia who was then open to a relationship with the West.
But honestly to say that the situation today is solely NATO's fault is far too simplistic. Although I am one of those who think that NATO should not have extended to the east. But the Americans would never have brought Ukraine into NATO, when they are in competition with China.
You are free to believe what the Head of the Kremlin says.
Yeah, it used to be that to be that Conservatism stood for democracy and freedom for this entire world. As President Bush said, "Freedom is God's Gift to this World."
At least you stopped pretending to be Conservative. I don't know where you got that cockamamie story about the US instigating something in Ukraine. But you can flush that right down the toilet with the rest of the crap that comes out of the Russian propaganda factory.
The fact is, Ukrainians will fight house to house to keep their democracy. That is the God's honest truth. Anything else you post about that nation and its people is a lie.
Ukraine did not break away from the Soviet Union by accident. They did it on purpose. So did Latvia, Estonia, Georgia, etc. They left the Soviet Union on purpose. I have traveled to all of those nations and Russia. And I can't tell you how much they aspire to Western. . . well what used to be American ideals. In Georgia, you see American flags everywhere. In Latvia there are whole museums dedicated to showing the treachery of Stalin and Lenin.
The ethnic issues between Russia, Ukraine and the Baltic states were there long before your father was even born. And not started by some liberal United States government.
You can pretend to be ashamed to score your political points. Unfortunately for you, you have picked the wrong hill to die on. Posting Russian propaganda might be that bridge that is too far. Ukrainian media isn't Western. Every single day, they interview captured Russian soldiers on Ukrainian television who have no idea what they were supposed to be doing in Ukraine. They were lied to. Just like you are lying here.
USA had no influence and opening the door to NATO? The push to NATO set the fuse. A fading bear backed into a corner...
It's good they want freedom and will fight for it, they know what I've enjoyed for free. all praise to them. But that isn't gonna change Russia's view. it's not about freedom, it's about Russia security.
I'm aware of the interviews, no doubt Russians soldiers don't want to be there either. As they see their friends die, they'll get more violent. Russians used to machine gun their own soldiers to force them to battle...
I think USA could defuse the bomb... or at one point could. But I don't hear the perspective to do so...
I believe you when you say they will fight. They might even hold them off. I don't see that ending well... it's always about negotiations and compromise. If russia has not gained a "buffer" after this... then what?
Sir, you are talking about NATO. Ukraine never even had a petition before NATO. Putin was insisting they give him a guarantee, that they would not join. This even after he invaded their country.
That is complete and utter nonsense. And it is a lie invented by Putin to justify murder. The funny thing is in truth, he had no right to make such demands in the first place. Having agreed to never invade Ukraine since it gave up its nuclear weapons.
That's right. Ukraine had the third biggest nuclear arsenal in the world. And gave it up just to be left alone.
And this is not Russia's view. I know Russians. I have friends in Russia. My best friend in the tech industry is Russian. This is Putin's view.
There isn't a single one of my friends supporting this war. And I am even talking about the folks who support Putin. It is so weird that you honestly believe you can get people to accept your politics, by using a gun. I am not sure where you got that idea. Forcing people into subjugation only puts a timetable on your rule. Even the Romans let conquered people keep their culture, religion, and language. Putin wants to erase it all. And I get that you identify with that worldview. I just don't see how you can find any logic in it.
Ukrainians have a specific history, language, and culture. They do not want to be Russian. Just like in our nation, American Indians fought almost to extinction to keep their languages, their cultures and their histories.
As for defusing, I have no idea what you even mean. Ask yourself this question out aloud. When will Ukrainians give up fighting for their culture?
Go back to your Soviet Union homeland. If a Nation wants to have Independence and is willing to fight for it then God Bless Them. Like this country breaking away from England. At least know your own history before you go play International Foreign Policy guy. -Like Taiwan breaking away from China. -like the Soviet wall being taken down by the German people and rejoining of East/West Germany. -Like Siam (Thailand), Cambodia, and Vietnam fighting Maoist China (Vietnam War) for Freedom. -The list goes on and on
-Only Americans and their obsession with Safety can’t get it.-You better get ready to fight for your own freedom in this country.
-Your freedom to move about terminated via electronic cars that can be stopped remotely (like a TV). -Your electronic, no more USA currency, frozen from afar if perceived “Dissident”. See Russia money flow stoppage via Switzerland from afar -All the Smart technology in your home serving as listening devices.(Alexia, TV, cell phone etc… -Your Smart utilities (power) cut off by Switch from afar. -China owning 28% of Stock Market.
-I know you don’t realize it but we currently live in a Brave New World Interment camp. COVID Fear 😷 for instance. While Nancy Pelosi and other leftist have open air dinner with 😷 covered slaves serving them over 1 year ago now. -stealing elections electronically.
Prisoners, held by Elite that see People as Resource💰 users/stealers.-That’s the Elite’s perceived resources, by the way.
Both the left and right are owned by the same people. Old money bought both sides a long time ago. The idea of left and right is used to keep people divided, distracted and fighting against one another. Because of the majority of people in any country are stuck doing above the people really in change can do as they won't in the other with no fear of being caught. Simply because the people will never have a large enough group of united people to do anything about it.
@Oigit I bet you are a Conspiracy Theorist of Grande Measure. Prove your Thesis outside of opinion, please.-Anything at all that resembles Fact⁉️ Truthfully, I’m not worried about it because I know God is Sovereign, rather than Soros, Putin, Biden, and/or Xijingpin, I can’t wait to get off this hell hole anyway.
Bless them for wanting and fighting for freedom, and maybe winning. But holding russia attack off won't resolve the conflict, possibly it becomes worse. that is the problem... the rest... yep!:)
Not American, I don't think ordinary Americans are to blame. The foreign policy of the US government often runs counter to what its people seem to want, which can be both a good and bad thing.
I do believe that NATO/The US played a strong, albeit indirect role in sparking this invasion. In the lead-up to it, Putin demanded that NATO military infrastructure (particularly missile systems in Poland and Romania that could be "nuclearized") be pulled back from near Russia. The NATO position on this issue was never publicly revealed. Only the position on Putin's other demand; refusing NATO membership to Ukraine, which was (rightly) rejected.
In 1962, the USA was ready to start WW3 over Soviet missiles in Cuba, so close to the US mainland. Today the reverse is the case, and it is the US that has missiles close to Moscow. Are people really surprised that Russia would not be quiet about it? If Putin and Lavrov's claims are to be believed, NATO rejected all their demands, including the missile deployments near Russia. I suspect that this arrogant, nonchalant attitude by NATO was interpreted by Putin as NATO saying he was bluffing on Ukraine. He called their bluff, and now there is a tragic war going on.
People keep saying that this was Putin's choice. Of course it is. But one's choices are made based on various factors of reality around them. I believe that if NATO had negotiated seriously, we wouldn't all be in this mess. Putin might have originally deployed troops to get The US/NATO into serious negotiations. There was no way he was ever going to pull them back after NATO refused to seriously act on the one demand out of all others that was actually legitimate. That would have made him look weak; the Russian president getting sent home like a disobedient schoolboy, while the west pats itself on the back for "standing up" to Russia (when this was supposed to be about Russia standing up to the NATO).
TL;DR EU did a good video talking about the professor's argument. The summary of his argument (The TL;DR of TL;DR) is that we would have been mostly at fault pre-Crimea, but post-Crimea, the majority error swings back towards Putin.
The USA is definitely not blameless, though. We are pretty much the world arbiters of "do as I say, not as I do". It angered me when conservatives here were all about torture and "just blow up the brown people" when we went to the middle-east, because if we torture people, torture is now de-facto legal. If we make up propaganda about WMDs as an excuse to invade, it becomes the new imperialism. Hell, we even funded far-right groups in both cases just to stick it to Russia. The Mujahideen in the middle east which became the Taliban, and the Azov Battalion neo-nazi group in Ukraine who is still being praised.
And if he were shooting for a modern Soviet Union, that would be one thing. Not great, but probably better economically than where they are. But he is shooting for pre-Soviet Russian imperialism and doing so completely on his own at the expense of devastating Russian quality of life and sending out soldiers who never actually wanted to fight Ukraine. Many of whom have families there. Like, imagine if we had a civil war but not from an actual public desire to secede. It was just some southern politician who decided to conscript people to fight their families in the north because he wanted to be president of something. So my heart goes out to the Ukrainian fighters, and my empathy goes out to the Russian protesters. I know what it's like to live in a country that barely represents me and makes up new wars on false pretenses.
I have great respect for red hats pro Trump Americans. Because they don't view Trump's diplomacy as being traitor...
Trump should win Nobel peace prize, but in the case of who was it given to! I call it mass murdering prize. He was denuclearizing the Koreas, in fact made them friends again, he removed ISIS, he kept Putin away from Ukraine, and he also armed them. They don't like him, they just want Hillary type shit.
They just want those who are responding to Putin's nuclear threatening with banning him from Judu, and Netflix, and "soccer" for god sake 😂🤦🏻♂️
I think this war happened because of stupid politicians elected in this case in so called democracies. Zelensky is welcoming Nazis, Islamists, and opening up his prisons and that's all cute! no problems. And remember the same "security motives" for the Russians in Ukraine, are those with the Saudis in Yemen... But different stories! How? I tell you how!.
Because all what Putin needs to do not to be condemned, is to bomb Ukrainians with weapons he buys from the west. that's all! If he doesn't make his own, he can even butcher Ukrainian kids everyday no libtards you'll see bitching.
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Anonymous
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+1 y
Hm, that is quite philosophical. I bet these more or less average citizens of the United States feel one of the most responsible for igniting the armed conflicts initiated from Russian Federation by the will of just 1 single (actually divorced) man, who possesses extreme amounts of resources, connections, power and mafias. Even his soldiers don't like doing any of his dirty work. What a grand mistake. The more or less average citizens of the United States will live with that guilt forever now and their dreams are going to be haunted from it. They should have known. /sarcasm
Trump kissed Putin's a$$ threatened to leave NATO, illegally held up aid to Ukraine, has numerous ties to Putin, gets all his funding from Russian Banks , is associated with the ousted firmer Ukraine president and Russian puppet. Tried to blackmail Ukraine into creating fake dirt on Biden during the election.
Trump also accepted Russian interference in us elections and tried to invite hime to the g7...
Biden is an old man doing mostly nothing but trying to repair the damage Trump caused.
It's bad for him politicaly which is probably why Putin invaded thinking the Republicans would hold back Biden (which they have) as they support Putin.
Ask Moscow Mitch or Comrad Carlson from Fox "news" aka Russian state tv
and putin wasn't demolishing ukraine back then... the nearly inverted perspective in our country is beyond fascinating how left and right see differently... Here's trump trying to avoid the mess we are in now... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpwkdmwui3k
The people of the USA love war because they believe wars are over there. Soon, they will pay the price for their stupidity when thousands of nuclear missiles are hitting American cities. The USA was going to have a nuclear war over missiles in Cuba until Russia retreated. Russia is going to have a nuclear war over missiles in Ukraine but because the people in the USA are stupid, the USA will not not retreat.
How is it USA fault? Why are they always to blame everytime something happens in the world? They help keep peace and world order. I'm not from USA but it's a cop out to blame them. Ukraine has every right to chose what they want and it should be a choice not an enforcement. Putan wants it his way and wants to inhilialte anyone who defies him. Not USA fault!
thank you. USA meddles in the whole world as we are the world power... for now. There's history that we have, according to some. we and western Europe alone likely have the method of defusing this. The question is if you feel responsibility for igniting. if you haven't researched and watched variety of videos, you may not see that viewpoint.
@Riannalee I am a US citizen and I can tell you the reason USA is to blame is because our government and our industrial/corporate sectors are united to keep other nations weak. My government intentionally sabotages the countries to keep them unstable, as a way of keeping the USA as "#1".
Some examples of countries we've sabotaged, picked fights with, interfered with elections, or set up dictatorships to weaken them. You'll notice we bully and only pick on countries we can knock down easily.: Iran, Nicaragua, Panama, Cuba, Honduras, Dominican Republic, Haiti, Mexico, Libya, Kuwait, Iraq, Italy, Indonesia, Lebanon, Brazil, Syria and more.
The horrid and inept Biden Administration promised the Zelensky Administration (Ukraine) the moon the stars and the sun, that is, NATO and European Union membership. Neither of which Biden could deliver, both of which Russia warned would be a cause for war, since they regard Ukraine as in their sphere of influence and essentially as their backyard. But Biden decided to bluff, and now his bluff has been called. And Ukraine is suffering grievously for it. Of course Putin is an asshole, but the lesson is clear. Never. Make. Promises. You. Cannot. Keep.
Y'all voted for these people... i'm not responsible for sht!
And they'll never learn the truth because it makes their fee fees hurt. And people like this are educating them in schools:
Biden's talking about funding the police, buying American, restarting the wall, the world is funding Nazis in Ukraine, hell you'd think Trump were still in office. And purple hairs will gleefully re-elect them! Can't make this sht up!
The U. S. is 100% responsible, just as it was in Korea, Guatemala, Honduras, Argentina, Chili, Viet Nam, Indonesia, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, Syria and countless other places. It's fingers are everywhere. It always claims to be supporting human rights and democracy when the opposite is true.
Aside from opposing U. S. meddling and aggression around the world, and voicing my concerns, I don't know what else to do. It's not like the maniacs in charge of my government listen to the citizens.
I sum it up as this. The Ukraine is a free, sovereign country. If they WANT to join NATO... that is their business. (If NATO accepts them). If they do not want to join NATO they don't have to.
That is what freedom means. They choose for themselves. The USA cannot choose for them... NOR can Russia.
If Russia doesn't like it... tough.
Interesting premise. The USA is making Putin bomb Ukraine and send in troops to get killed and to kill.
We are not responsible for this mess. Let me take you even further back to the mid-2000s when Viktor Yuschenko was running against the corrupt Russian puppet Victor Yanukovich: Yuschenko was poisoned as an assassination attempt but he survived and had his face messed up. Yankovich tried to rig the election and was backed by Putin, but ultimately got kicked out and Yuschenko won the election.
Point: Russia has been influencing and trying to control Ukraine for years, long before now, long before 2014. It doesn't matter about NATO or what Ukraine has wanted because Putin's dark purposes for domination have always been in play.
Ukraine is not part of NATO. If the nato countries jump in it will be world War 3. Then all nato countries would have to jump in. I'm not sure what the US has to do with it. But Putin decided this on his own
@QuietRunner what is his driving motive? If one listens to him, he explains his rational. Do you believe his perspective? if you believe what he is saying... then he will not stop until succeeds. if he's lying and there's a lesser motive, maybe he will with enough pressure. you dont' have to answer.
Biden and the democrats have made us energy dependent on Russia and other countries for our needs and they are refusing to go back to where we were before. They refuse to hurt Russia by stopping our purchases from them and reopening our production to meet our needs and so we can also provide oil and gas to Europe.
I believe the Biden regime instigated this. Military build up on the Russian boarder and arms shipments to Ukraine. Biden was attacking Biden verbally from his first day in office rather than deescalating the situation and putting the Russians at ease.
I've watched enough videos about how non Ukranian's/ non whites are being discriminated.
I hate racist people, I fucking hate them. Is a problem of humanism, NOT ignorance. When the fuck we will see each other as human beings? With the same rights and opportunities? When the fuck we will STOP the BS of discriminating each other, based on the skin color? Ukraine wants support, what fucking support? WHILE RACIALLY DISCRIMINATING? FUCK UKRAINE, FUCK RUSSIA AND FUCK OUR SPECIES; WE HAVEN'T EVOLVE ENOUGH.
I think the US and Europe tend to meddle too much. I think the US should remove most of its bases from overseas and focus more on what’s going on within its own borders. Doesn’t mean not be diplomatic on the world stage but remove the military presence which forces the hands of others. That being said elections that are questionable and overturned and then shown diplomatic support are different from invading a sovereign nation and claiming land because of whatever reason. Putin is in no way justified in doing what he’s doing, in my opinion. With all that in mind, as a citizen and not a politician making decisions I feel very little responsibility for their actions other than trying to vote to remove people or put people in positions of responsibility.
Home > Society & Politics > Polls > USA, how responsible do you feel you are for igniting the war in Ukraine, and what are you willing to do about it to end the war?
