For those who believe feminism is poisoned to hate men, can't the same be said about MRA and MGTOW followers when it comes to women?

Question

For those who strongly believe that feminism no longer holds it's core values and strictly only listen to the radical feminists who hurt the cause, do you believe that those who are now men's rights activists and MGTOW have done this purely out of a hate of women?

If not, do you foresee the same fate befalling them when the more radicalized of their members cause a counter push against men purely from the toxicity of their message?

Kristog · Accepted Answer

I believe Men and Women these days should be seen as equals, Why should Sexuallity, colour of skin or anything else have to do with it?

This isn't the Dark ages, Women are as capable as men at doing anything they put there mines to...

Its sad that in this day and age there has to even be any groups at all that separate people by there Age, Sex or Colour... We are ONE... We should begin looking at each other as equals... Viking had Drengr and Shield Maidens who fought side by side as equals...

Trevelyan88 · Accepted Answer

I think some of the people in both of these groups have had some bad experiences with the opposite gender, so they take these and apply them as being representative of the gender as a whole...
I just don't think the whole...
My girlfriend in college cheated on me with the quarterback, so that means all women are whores that only date bad boy jock assholes, is a valid argument...

Its like these people haven't heard of anecdotal vs empirical evidence before...

Oigit · Answer

Some of the worst enemies a person can have are the ones they create. The women that are or where weaponizing feminism to go against men are the ones that created MGTOW. Because a group such as MGTOW is a direct response to their behavior. Also the entire issue is yet another example of what can happen when people insist on painting every member of a given group with the same brush.

Also remember is that the loudest members of any given group are not always the majority. Because a small number of people are capable of creating a lot of noise. Noise that is loud enough to drowned out everyone around them. A lot of times that small number of people is drowned out everyone else. So we end up basing our views on that small number if people within a give group who happen to be louder then the rest.

Lastly people need to be more willing to police their own group. If a member your group is saying or doing something that is negative, you need to stop them from doing so. Even if it means publicly calling them out a catching flack from other members of your group. Sitting back and not taking any action isn't a option. Because what they are saying or doing will negatively reflect on the whole group. Including you because you are a member of the same group.

Anonymous · Answer

MGTOW is not a sexist movement. It is a form of self protection. I would consider myself MGTOW for due to the observations (and some negative experiences myself) that I have made over the years, such as but not limited to:

1. The family courts are biased in favour of women. Divorced men get gutted in family court; many lose their homes, crs, saving accounts, much of their assets etc. Not to mention child support and alimony. Divorce is very costly for men. There are legions of men who have been ruined by divorce. Divorce is instigated by the wife 80% of the time.

2. Many men are getting dragged to their HR dept at work and getting suspended or even fired over some complaint that a female colleague or subordinate makes against them. Mind you many times it is something like a minor comment, or a maybe an innocent joke, or he made eye contact with her for 1.5 seconds too long. In many cases the guy receives a reprimand and in other cases he loses his job.

3. A women can accuse a man of rape assault and everyone will automatically believe her. The media, the Twitterverse, the t police, his employers will just assume it is true and crucify the guy before he even has a chance to defend himself. He is deemed guilty before the trial begins.

4. If a man ever has a disagreement or an argument with a woman, uninvolved people - especially white knights - will automatically jump on her side. This can be dangerous because sometimes these white knights will attack you. Apart from that the police, the court systems, are all paid and trained white knights that a women can use to her advantage. If she want to screw you over all she has to do is pick up the phone, dial 911 and say that you assaulted her.

5. Many of these 4th wave feminists - especially in this post #metoo world now assume that all men are rapists and out to hurt women. They teach this to the young impressionable college girls. Now you have an entire generation of young women that have been trained to believe that all men are potential rapists and that if a guy asks for her phone number or tells her she has nice eyes well it is now harassment.

I see these things and so do many other men. We see that the impact of #metoo is very real for many men; many guys have been screwed over because of some crazy women. We are not out there protesting or putting on penis hats. As men all we do is walk away.

MGTOW is not the male version of feminism. MGTOW is a form of self-protection that many men do. Think of the Pence rule but on steroids. Many, many have decides it is just easier to avoid women as much as possible in order to avoid any bullshit.

Those few very vocal men who are attacking women as a whole on forums are those who have been dragged through a divorce they did not want, had a life that they spent years some time decades building torn apart by the one person they trusted the most only to find in the process of the divorce that they had been systematically cheated on, and sometimes finding that their circle of ‘friends’ had know about the affair and in some cases aided and abetted the cover up of the affair, so maybe cut these guys a little slack if they are negative towards women as a result of the divorce and the ‘family courts system.

Men see their only recourse to preserve what resources they have and their mental well being is to withdraw as much as possible, and only interact with women on the most superficial of levels, MGTOW is unlike feminism in one main respect - It has no Leadership that can be attacked - each man 'goes his own way' however he wishes to do that, be that in the middle of a city or going 'off grid' it is his choice.

CrazyGirl2 · Answer

Oh god yes, and far far worse! Feminism, REAL feminism, 2nd wave feminism is about equal rights, and equal opportunity, NOT equal outcome! Anyone who still believes that women earn seventy cents for every dollar men make, means for the same job and the same hours is deranged. That study took the lifetime earnings of men and women and compared them. It did not allow for different jobs, nor did it take into account hours worked. That study essentially concluded that if a man and woman both work at a hospital, and the man earns $200,000 while the woman earns $70,000 then it must be because of sexism, and NOT because the man is a surgeon, while the woman is a nurse! The MGTOW and MRA guys are toxic! They believe ALL women are using men for their money, thus ALL women are whores! That is a toxic and misogynistic at BEST, evil and hateful at worst! Anyone is free to date whomever they please. No man is entitled to my time, my attention, and especially not my affection, or my body! I have a right to date whomever I please. So to, do men! But this toxic, almost pathological hatred of women is extremely dangerous, and I would encourage any woman to run, don’t walk away from any man who displays characteristics of MGTOW attitudes, RUN! And likewise, men, if you do not want to date women who believe in being treated equally, DON’T! But don’t paint all women as woke 3rd wave feminists, just because they believe they deserve the same amount of pay for the same exact work!

HighlyVolatile · Answer

I dislike most of it: new waves of feminism, MGTOW, MRA, incel, whatever else. I'm into harmony between the sexes and I find many of these movements start to become very divisive and polarizing.

I would like to see more Amelia Earhart types:

For those who believe feminism is poisoned to hate men, can't the same be said about MRA and MGTOW followers when it comes to women?

... yet that's a very old school feminist mindset revolving around accountability and embracing the fact that we're underdogs and conquering society from "inside-out" rather than from "outside-in", so to speak.

I'm allergic to any individual or group of people -- even if they have genuine grievances and my sympathies -- so eager to point to the opposite sex or society at large for their personal failings. I see the role of the individual to adapt to society well enough to conquer it, not for society to adapt to the individual.

This places me at odds with most modern movements even if we all want to see more people succeed. I think my way focused on the individual's responsibility works better as a priority.

ObscuredBeyond · Answer

This is what I like about Chloe Roma's channel. She lets both sides hear it, as equally as possible. Yes, she tends to pick on crazy women more often; but that's because there are more of them on Tik Tok. Crazy men tend to stay off of Tik Tok, because it's too crazy even for them. Which makes crazy women into easier cannon fodder.

Granted, there are others out there, like BetterBachelor, who seem to think all women are evil. I'm pretty sure that guy's ex-wife fits the bill, so I can see why he'd be bitter.

Problem is, it's hard to defend someone who's the opposite, without coming under fire. A woman who defends a man from unreasonable attacks is automatically branded a floozy, as if she's only defending him because she wants the D. Such cynicism is out of line, and does no good. Likewise, any man who defends a woman is automatically labeled a "white knight," even if his coming to her aid is still within the boundaries of what is perfectly reasonable to expect of anyone with basic human decency, and there's no cynical motive.

The "white knight" pejorative is supposed to be for those who are unreasonable about it: defending women from threats that don't exist, and doing real harm in the process. Alas, cynics have ruined that too.

Yes, there are cases of actual misogyny, that can be rather disgusting. And then there are lunatics who assume literally any line in the sand for a woman's behavior automatically constitutes an example of it.

There are also crazies that assume any woman asking too many questions is a misandrist. And then there are actual misandrists, whom I've had the misfortune of running into. Each of them, acting like they belong in a straight jacket. Convincing me that if I met them in person rather than online, they'd fly off the handle if I sneezed funny, and would give me reason to call the cops on them.

VanillaSalt · Answer

Yes but I don’t think they care. See the fact is until we started hating on women they did nothing to improve mens situations. Abuse aimed at men isn’t new it was going on for decades. It’s not until now that so many have drawn so much attention to it and the whole dating scenes destroyed that women are starting to notice and speak up.

You know me bri. I’ma spiteful son-of-a-bitch… Ideally Ide like to succeed together… but I’m not above crashing and burning together either. If men back off mens rights and MGTOW things will, at best, go back to how they were before. I think we’re well past that don’t you? Men have standards too and the more men choose to allow women be “the prize” and to be held to lesser standards the more extreme the other men have to be to bring change.

Even if it’s all poisoned… I will respond to the same energy you throw my way regardless. Idc if that’s good or bad. I’m not here to benefit a society that thinks so little of me just cause ima man.

Also… you don’t get a say in mens rights… we determine if we’re being treated acceptable or not. As a woman you don’t have that right.

ArchaicArachnid · Answer

MGTOW is fine in principle - men should have the right to not need a relationship. I don't understand why people think it's fine for a woman to say she doesn't need a man, but if a man says he doesn't need a woman he's a loser virgin misogynist incel. I am NOT MGTOW myself by any means, just saying it seems fair to also allow men to have this mindset. A lot of MGTOW guys seem to be into self-improvement too, which is nice (I've only looked at their subreddit once and the top posts were just posts of woodwork they were learning to do).

Obviously, it's wrong for anyone to go about harassing people - the elements of MGTOW that do that are poisonous, I would agree.

MRAs are literally just advocates for legal equality in family courts and the criminal justice system.

In any event, both are entirely irrelevant and tiny - feminism is the civil religion that dominates every western society, so let's not try to compare it. Feminists decide policy and how your life will be run - MGTOW guys do not.

DonkeyDan · Answer

But there are 2 tyoes of feminist, the men haters, and they definitely exist, and real feminist who are trying to change things for women for the better standing up for their rights, generally they don't hate men.
MRA don't hate women just like real feminists don't hate men, they are purely standing up for the rights and issues of men.
MGTOW is a whole other thing though and the majority of them do seem to be women haters, obviously there are going to be exceptions to the rule in bith camps.
Just because someone stands up for the rights of their gender doesn't mean they hate the opposite gender, both men and women have rights issues that affect their gender only, and people need to stand up for them, it doesn't make then a hater of the opposite sex.

Sargentcaptain · Answer

MGTOW I don't know much about, from the outside looking in it's just a collection of lonely dudes who gave up on dating. But, I've been to a MRA event. They were talking about how there is only one domestic abuse shelter for guys in the US compared to the ~2000 for women, male genital mutilation is still legal even with children and widely practiced too, the majority of suicided being committed by men, guys getting screwed by family courts and topics like that. Several of the speakers were women and it wasn't just dudes bitching about 'em females, or whatever people think it is.

SolitarySolace · Answer

The difference between feminism and mgtow/MRA is that mgtow and MRA was an attempt to balance rights between men and women due to the fact that feminism only focuses on women while claiming to be for the benefit of men as well when that's just an excuse to keep their movement alive.

Sure, there are toxic people in MRA/mgtow, but that's due to the fact that these men have come to realize how everything they've done for the women they loved was never worth it. The sacrifices these men made for their women when their women never appreciated let alone respected said sacrifices made by their men. Feminists just complain and bitch about how men have more than them when what they don't realize is the world men made was made FOR THEM and now men are regretting it. But it's too late to take back. When men try to fight for themselves against the push back made by women they're always seen as the villains when these men just want peace and fairness. There is nothing peaceful/fair with feminism alive and well. It's a lie made up to allow women to do and say whatever the fuck they want and get away with it with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

DaveJord · Answer

Sure it can be true to say that about MRA or MGTOW, but I think men in general are not trying to deny that... its a direct response to Feminist that have done a lot to negatively defined men as something they are not, and women as victims of a society dominated by men... when in reality men are tired of being defined according to what women think, and we want to define ourselves. But if you are the type always looking for social injustice you will always find it, its just a matter of what you believe in that determines which side of the argument you are on... but it always slices two ways and people are tired of the louder and more vocal minority violating the rights of the silent majority, then claiming ownership over the issue as if they have right to define the terms of everything. Its all bullshit.

Lionman95 · Answer

Yeah pretty much both movements started good but have lost their paths in the wrong.
My biggest issue with both movements is that they tend to talk at the other sex and not with the other sex.
Feminism is giving the feeling as if they throw terms like toxic masculinity, sexism accusations and other stuff at me without bothering to listen.
MGTOW and other movements like incels on the other hand do similar with women.
If people started to talk and listen offline more the world would be a better place.
Yes offline it's harder but online both issues are too much dominated by extreme voices that aren't interested in solving issues.
But there are issues that need to be dealt with for the common good.

MountAverage · Answer

Most Feminists don't hate men. Most MGTOWs do hate women. Plain and simple. But these two groups are hard to compare because Feminism is a massive, heterogenous, global ideology, while MGTOW is a homogenous fringe movement. In Feminism you'll find all sorts of vastly different types, from batshit crazy manhaters (the loud minority) to rational academics and activists (the majority no one likes to talk about). MGTOWs consist more or less exclusively of different variations of bitter incels ("incel" in the sense of the mindset, not necessarily literally involuntary celibates).

SomeGuyCalledTom · Answer

I think the problem of radicals polluting an otherwise 'noble' cause is a problem that predates feminism, MGTOW or any other cultural or political movement of the 21st century. Hell, look what atrocities have been committed in the name of religion. Now does that mean anyone who is religious must therefore be in favour of committing atrocities? Of course not. But it does serve as a timeless reminder of what can happen to any well-intentioned movement once those who seek power find ways to redirect that movement towards their own ends.

normalice · Answer

You are trying to pose a logical question to mgtow/incel etc which are movements rooted in antagonism for the sake of antagonism. They were never intended to be good faith movements to solve a problem but bad faith political operations to push a narrative that distracts people from the fact that they are voting against their own financial self interests. Its always about the money..

Redhead999 · Answer

MRA guys are trying to get equality for men under the law especially in divorce, child custody, domestic abuse and false rape allegation law cases.
MGTOW guys are usually young guys that can't get a girlfriend or guys in their 30s that have been hurt by women who just need time to heal their wounds but are harmless.
I think soceity and women need to appreciate how great men are.

Jamie05rhs · Answer

I think that feminists and MRA people both have good reasons to feel cynical and sometimes even resentful about the opposite sex. Because many of them have actually been hurt by members of the opposite gender, and many have been hurt badly. And even if they haven't been hurt personally, they know someone who has; and in some cases, they have even witnessed it with their own eyes. So their views are not without merit, by any means.

I think where it can be become a problem is just when it goes too far. When that distrust turns into hate. And especially when you lose perspective and you loop ALL men or ALL women into the same group. And when you might treat someone badly because of the way that a different person who happened to be of their same gender once treated you. That is what we have to try to avoid.

whiskeyontherocks · Answer

It’s hard to say yes to this without coming across as Callous mostly because it’s a little more complicated to me.

Both movements have been hijacked by extremists with poor Empathy for individuals of the opposite sex. Both have horrible leadership that get the most attention because you get more views for a train reck rather than the perfect train ride.
Both movements have a well spoken minority that are only interested in the improving the quality of life of men or women without being at the expense of others, there voice muffled by the extremists.

exitseven · Answer

I have really tried to avoid all of this stuff. I have more traditional beliefs when it comes to men/women. I think everyone is equal and if somebody wants to be a stay at home dad or a woman wants to be a plumber it is okay with me. Putting labels on everything just leads to division.

Novacane · Answer

I think it can be as equally as bad but also note that those movements didn't start or start to gain as much traffic until we started to see the feminist movement lose their core values. So I wouldn't say they "hate women" just like I wouldn't say feminists "hate men" but it's how they are articulating it, obviously they are frustrated so they are going to come off as aggressive and hurtful, this applies to all movements.

What I forsee is that it's only going to get worst, this is just the beginning. We are starting to lose what it means to be a man and a woman.

For those who believe feminism is poisoned to hate men, can't the same be said about MRA and MGTOW followers when it comes to women?

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