Is rudeness and offensiveness subjective?

[MCheetah]

If a dictator were to rise in the near future that only targeted rude people, would the dictator be considered a hero or a tyrant?

I'm trying my best not to be "rude" regarding the OP of this question in the link.

Yes; rudeness is subject to interpretation, and you choose how to react to situations from other people.

No; rudeness is objective and quantifiable and can be proven by facts.

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Also, someone is stalking me and my question with a Downvote Bot. It's happened before here on GAG. In case you think me or many others are downvoting you. No, it's just a bot.

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Think about this: If I audibly called someone a "puta" or "cabrón" while smiling to them and waving in a positive manner, and they didn't speak Spanish whatsoever, am I still being rude to them or not? If yes, then you're saying human emotions are universal and language, tone, and context becomes irrelevant, so that guy should automatically know I was insulting him. If no, then you just proved my point that social etiquette is learned and not universally understood.

[globetrotter22]

If you are unintentionally rude and offend someone that’s one thing. It also depends on the other person’s maturity to determine if you are intentionally being a dbag vs just acting rude out of ignorance and not even realizing it.

If the offended person (tactfully) communicates they don’t like what they are hearing/seeing and the other person corrects course that’s one thing.

However some people “get upset” over the most asinine things like being called the wrong pronoun. In those situations the “offended” person is really the rude person to begin with. Their “offended” response is worse the original “rude” action

However some people actually get off on being antagonistic. Nothing subjective about that. Those people should be (rightfully) universally condemned.

[hahahmm]

I could talk about how differences in customs from one city to another mean something is rude in one city but not the next one BUT I think it's more important to focus on how the idea that it's wrong to ever offend another person is exactly what 'woke' ideology is based on and it leads to those who have the power to silence others using that power but coincidentally they are offended when their ideas/allies are the topic. They aren't offended at all when the opposition is attacked. So it becomes a one sided political tool to pretend to care about feelings.

And feelings aren't based on facts so it's dangerous to run a society just based on that.

[MCheetah]

Couldn't agree more. Sadly, almost half of the poll has this "I'm the center of the universe and my feelings matter more than your life and actions" mindset on it.

[Exterminatore]

No. We all know that:


1. Insults and name calling
2. Giving attitude
3. Attempting to belittle or shame someone publicly
4. Trying to make a fool out of someone
5. Have an attitude in the tone of one’s voice
6. Projecting arrogant body language
7. Smart ass remarks
8. Intentional and overt disrespect
Intentional and covert disrespect (backhanded compliments etc)
9. Racial remarks
10. Arrogant behavior in general


We know when these things are done unprovoked or without just cause that it’s not ok. We all know these things do not sit well with almost everyone and therefore no one needs to be told this as an adult.


True, there may be individual things unique to the individual beyond these that may be considered offensive, however as stated, we all know what is generally disrespectful, not in good taste, rude and offensive.


Only narcissists and sociopaths and those with developmental disabilities need basic respect and what is considered rude explained to them, and in the case of the first two no leeway is given by me nor is leeway given to anyone I perceive who damn well knows better.

[MCheetah]

Like I said in the other comment you responded to (before you responded): Nobody is required to kiss someone's ass in society and everything you mentioned here is not universally "rude." It differs depending on society, which is my point I was making.

"We know when these things are done unprovoked or without just cause."
No, we don't. YOU don't know what provoked them or caused them to happen. That doesn't mean they were done literally for no reason at all.

"We all know what is generally disrespectful, not in good taste, rude and offensive."
No, not at all true. That is a societal thing and varies from society to society. Like the middle finger being rude in Western culture, but the peace sign being rude in other cultures outside the West.

You make the point of "intent that matters," and while someone can have the INTENT to hurt someone emotionally, it doesn't become "rude until the other person is offended by it. Otherwise, the target can laugh it off and go about their day. You're otherwise trying to state that one's emotions or actions in society have a universal meaning to them, which is not true.

[MCheetah]

"Only narcissists and sociopaths and those with developmental disabilities need basic respect and what is considered rude explained to them"
Something *I* consider to be a rude, assholish thing to say. Insulting others merely because they don't agree with your point of view. That makes *you* universally rude, by *your* own logic. Get my point?

The best quote on here came from @hahahmm: "Feelings aren't based on facts so it's dangerous to run a society just based on that." And I'll add that it's not my job to placate the emotions and feelings of every grown adult that interacts with me on a daily basis and *I* would say only children and emotionally weak people need others to kiss their asses 24/7 and consider any slight deviation from captivation to be "rudeness" and "offensive" (think of Progressives and social justice warriors with pronouns).

There is no such thing as "objective rudeness." We can agree to disagree here if you don't believe in that, but I'm sticking to my argument.

[MCheetah]

slight deviation from *capitulation

[purplepoppy]

They're two different things. Rudeness is deliberate, you know how your expected to behave in civilised society but choose not to because your under the delusion your above the other person. Eg not saying please or thank you
Offensive is when you deliberately target something that has meaning to someone. It's a more personal direct attack Eg calling a black guy a junglebunny. The aim is usually to lower the status of someone.

Where it gets cloudy is when people take offence where non was intended eg using the wrong pronoun. There's also a clash of culture, a British newspaper ran an article on how a girl was horrified when her American date brought a bell to a restaurant to use to summon the water, normal in usa rude in UK.

[MCheetah]

You have any idea how many people on this site alone consider me "rude" or consider me "offensive" simply for not agreeing with them or validating their worldview? As if everyone on the planet is supposed to agree with one person on the internet thinks. It's crazy how many people have this "You're not allowed to disagree with me, even if I never met you before now" attitude.

Is it "rude" of me to not follow society's norms and standards for things that are outdated and arbitrary? Is it rude for a woman to wear pants? Is it rude for non-Christians to exist? Or non-Muslims? Is it rude to be pro-life regarding abortion because "baby murdering is wrong and anyone in a civilized society would agree all abortions should always be outlawed"?

I always thought laws were what determined if something is "universally rude" (like punching someone in the face or stalking them) and what is subjective to interpretation as being "rude."

[Ms_Facesitter]

For the most part it is subjective. It all depends on how the person perceives the comment and what the intention is of the person who made the comment.

If the intention to hurt is clear. "All [insert group] should die in a fire", everyone is going to recognize this as "that is offensive, this person wants to offend said group"

But the comment "not bad" can be seen as a compliment or an insult even if it's meant as "good job".

[IceCreamSandwich]

I think it could be quantified and objectified by someone who knows how to do that. A phrase or action being rude, that's subjective, but a person being rude can be defined with fairly clear lines. It has to be intentional, and to insult, at least. There's probably more nuance to it than that but my head hurts

[IceCreamSandwich]

Just because someone doesn't get offended, or doesn't realize the other person is being rude, doesn't mean that the person actually isn't being offensive or rude. If a colorblind person looks at a painting does the painting become greyscale?

[LilyoftheLake]

There's TWO things to consider here:

1. Their intention

2. Your emotional reaction

THEY are responsible to not try to offend you, though there is some slack there. YOU are responsible for your feelings on the matter.

[LovingLoverReturned]

There is no denying. If someone says "your mother is a fat cow". It's definitely rude.

[LovingLoverReturned]

Objective.

That's why the English language has connotation.

[MCheetah]

No. What if SHE said that to her own son. Or it was said as a joke. Is that still "rude?"

[LovingLoverReturned]

It was understood that people aren't insulting themselves. Rudeness refers to behavior toward others.

Of someone joked that about themself it is not rude, rather it is degrading when adding the animal part.

[MCheetah]

"It was understood that people aren't insulting themselves."
No, it was not understood. That's the whole point. You're taking social norms, which are learned and differ wildly based on society, and trying to call them "universal truths."

Think about this: If I audibly called someone a "puta" or "cabrón" while smiling to them and waving in a positive manner, and they didn't speak Spanish whatsoever, am I still being rude to them or not? If yes, then you're saying human emotions are universal and language, tone, and context becomes irrelevant, so that guy should automatically know I was insulting him. If no, then you just proved my point that social etiquette is learned and not universally understood.

[MCheetah]

To simplify what I just wrote: "Rude" language and warm soft body language conflicting each other.
So which one is rude to the one looking and hearing this; the mean words or the polite gestures?

[LovingLoverReturned]

Yes I noticed a down vote bot seemed to be following you. Odd...
We can choose how to And we just naturally react differently to each situation even if we know the person is rude.
...
I read your question again, thought it over and think this:
I understand Offense to be different from rudeness. Offensive is about the recipient (subjective)... whereas rudeness is not simple. It is determined by the speaker's intention (subject to the speaker, NOT--recipient) and also the objectivity of society (when majority of society considers something rude then it is, but not the person necessarily). So if a mentally ill person says something rude but they aren't rude. .

If I purposely insult someone and they don't understand it. Doesn't change that I was rude ( I know I was). It depends on the speaker's intention to determine true rudness... A person may take offense (subjectively) but it doesn't necessarily mean someone was rude. If someone isn't socially smart enough to act as expected, they don't intend to hurt us, then it isn't true rudeness.

I'm offended... doesn't mean you were rude. Lol the Bible has a scripture saying Offense lies in the bosom of a fool (I understand it better as I think of this question)

[LovingLoverReturned]

If you want offensiveness to mean same as rudeness then it is safe to say, Not because I was offended means the person was offensive. Again, both subjective to the recipient and subjective to the speaker.

[Fuentes]

Whoever that guy is must really hate his life.

[sirderpsalot123]

Subjective.