Is Portugal justified?

[Guardian45]

Recently, Portugal sent 6 Russian fire-fighting helicopters to the Ukraine. The copters could be re-purposed for heavy lifting or construction. Portugal is breaking a trade agreement with Russsia.
So the Q is Portugal justified in transferring these copters to Ukraine or not?

mil.in.ua/.../

Portugal is justified to transfer these copters to Ukraine (explain below)

Portugal has NO RIGHT to transfer these copters to Ukraine (explain below)

I have a different answer (explain below)

Results/poll

[nightdrot]

Yes, Portugal is justified. This realizing that international relations are about power and the idea of "justification" suggests a moral calculus that is simply not operative in such an arena.

To start, the following quotes are a predicate to any discussion of the question:

From Lord Palmerston: "We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow."

From Theodore Roosevelt: "World peace comes not from human kindness or moral restraint, but from balanced power; equilibriums of force restraining the selfish aims of nation-states."

From John Quincy Adams: "Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own."

Finally, and most appropriate to Portugal's action, quoting Camillo di Cavour, the man who unified Italy when asked what he would do for the liberal revolutionaries who helped him win Italy's wars of unification he replied,

"Astonish them with my ingratitude."

This last being what Portugal has done with Russia. It being best to keep in mind that neither Russia nor Portugal joined in a trade agreement with one another for altruistic purposes. To the contrary, each was seeking certain advantages - economic and diplomatic.

In this connection, it should be added, the benefits Portugal will reap from supporting Ukraine are derivative. Portugal, like the United States in fact, has no direct interest in Ukraine. Ukraine was under Russian (or Soviet from 1920 to 1990) rule for a large chunk of Portuguese history and Lisbon suffered no ill effects from it being so.

However, Portugal does need the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and the alliances newest members are mostly in eastern Europe and they do have a direct and vital interest in Ukraine. Thus, NATO is obliged to lend support,. short of war, to Ukraine. The failure to do so would call into question the alliance's value to the states of eastern Europe and that would almost certainly lead to them seeking other security arrangements that would impact the United States, Britain, France and other NATO members including, yes, Portugal.

So the Portuguese, in effect, found a low cost way to back Ukraine, thereby reassuring NATO's eastern European member states and tweaking Russia in the bargain. (Likely also pleasing Portugal's domestic public opinion as the polls in most countries of the West show that popular sentiment is with Ukraine.)

The bottom line is that Portugal is justified in the sense that it made a cold hard headed calculation in terms of the costs and benefits to its actions. Throw in that Russia benefits from its trade deal with Portugal. The Russians might, in protest, cancel the trade agreement with Portugal, but they will lose the benefits of that deal with few countervailing benefits. By contrast, Portugal remains in the Western alliance and will likely be able to offset at least some of the damage done if Russia pulls out of the deal.

Thus is Portugal not only vindicated measured in terms of its national interests, it reaps the benefits either way. That is, to say no more, sufficient justification for her actions.

[Guardian45]

Excellent Analysis! Thank you!

[nightdrot]

Thanks so much for your kind compliment. I am glad you found it helpful.

[OlderAndWiser]

Wiith his threats of nuclear war, I think Putin has revealed himself to be the antiChrist (at least figuratively) and survival of the planet justifies whatever actions are necessary to stop him.

[Guardian45]

Agreed whole heartedly

[Guardian45]

Dont forget to vote please

[OlderAndWiser]

Done.

[Guardian45]

Thank you

[Sabretooth]

We're on the same page for once.

[dustybiker]

War and terrorism is a grey area.

[Guardian45]

And how do you interpret this?

[dustybiker]

They are choosing sides.

[dustybiker]

Thank you for mho

[Guardian45]

You're welcome

[Katie1964]

F*ck russia (little r intended)

[Guardian45]

That little r hurts! 😂🤪

[Sixgunsound]

I’m assuming Portugal is getting paid some of the billions of US dollars that Biden is sending their way.

[Guardian45]

Hmmm. Interesting possibility. Perhaps, that was an influencing factor here!

[Twalli]

If those are owned by Portugal, they can do as they wish with them. If Portugal is like most of the world in regards to sanctions on Russia, it's not that surprising.

[Guardian45]

Except Russia claims that the copters are owned by Russia and only on loan to Portugal through a trade pact.

[Twalli]

Then Russia can seize them. The problem rests with whether or not Russia is claiming them now or if they always have.

[Guardian45]

It would appear that they were "on loan" to Portugal for forest fire-fighting purposes.

[Twalli]

Then they're Russia's.

[Guardian45]

My impression is it is too late to stop this shipment of 6 copters, but Russia may choose to recall the remainder of the fleet.

[Anonymous]

Yes, Portugal is justified. The trade agreements all went out the window when Russia declared war on a peaceful nation and started killing thousands of innocent people.

[Guardian45]

Agreed

[Guardian45]

Also, these copters could be used to 'correct' the damage done by Russia in Ukraine!

[Agagagagaga]

So hypothetically, when the US invaded Iraq their trade agreements with Brazil became null and void?

Do you see how retarded your thought process is?

[Guardian45]

@Agagagagaga. No. What I see is you bringing up something that is irrelevant to my Q.

[Agagagagaga]

“ Yes, Portugal is justified. The trade agreements all went out the window when Russia declared war on a peaceful nation and started killing thousands of innocent people.”

🤨

[Opinion Owner]

@Agagagagaga You're trying to equate the terrorist state of Iraq and the peaceful nation of Ukraine. Do you see how retarded your thought process is?

[NerdInDenial]

A country can always back out of a deal; there's just consequences to it. Portugal has the right to "break" the trade agreement with Russia.

[AngryCarl]

Fully justified. Russia can consider it a downpayment on reparations.

[Guardian45]

I like your thinking

[USLegionary]

Depends largely on the wording of the deal

[Guardian45]

Besides the wording, do you condemn or support Potugal?

[USLegionary]

Neither. I dont know the details of the deal. Would you condem Portugal for sending American made rescue blackhawks?

[Sabretooth]

Look at the atrocities committed by Russia and come back and tell me.

[msc545]

Breaking a trade agreement is a problem.

[AngryCarl]

So is breaking international law.

[msc545]

@AngryCarl You mean like the US does?

[Guardian45]

@msc545. @AngryCarl. Gentlemen: sticking to the Q please: Is Portugal justified or not?

[msc545]

Portugal is not justified in breaking a trade agreement just because they dislike the Russians.

[AngryCarl]

If Portugal are paying for them they can send them where they like in my opinion.

[msc545]

That might be your opinion but apparently that is not part of what the trade agreement specified.

[AngryCarl]

It's also my opinion that Russia can't point to the small print on the contract while murdering civilians in another sovereign nation.