Who do you think is responsible for the Ukrain war and energy crisis the western countries are facing? Feel free to state your reasons?

[Lonerup]

Russia

The US and NATO

Ukraine

A total of 20 votes were cast: 2 girls and 18 guys. See detailed results

[NamerOfStars]

Which aspect? The responsibility for the Ukraine war lies solely on the shoulders of those who invaded Ukraine- that would be the Russian government. Yes, political factors lead by other countries pushed them in a direction where it seemed like a better idea, but it was FAR from their only option. Putin was absolutely free to try diplomatically resolving these problems; he decided instead to invade Georgia. Then Ukraine. Now Ukraine again. The difficulties it's causing are HIS responsibility.

The energy crisis is a different story- THAT responsibility lies with politicians marching in ideological lockstep on frankly idiotic energy policies (whether that's insisting on maintaining a fossil fuel-primacy grid, or ditching fossil fuels with absolutely nothing to replace them, and ignoring the importance of nuclear energy on BOTH sides), as well as voters who keep putting them in power. Building and maintaining a diverse energy grid, able to supply the country even if multiple extent sources suddenly develop problems, would cost money, and that would anger donors and lobbyists. You can't blame Putin for Biden's mistakes. For that matter, you can't blame Biden for Madigan's.

[jshm2]

Look at it this way, Russia complained when the West started interfering in Ukraine by removing their democratically elected leader Viktor Yanukovych in place of the puppet Zelensky.

The rhetoric has been getting worse since and it was only a matter of time before a full scale war broke out.

The West STILL decided to profit on the war by providing Ukraine weapons and stealing (sanction) from Russia.

Russia would have been a fool not to have fought back. The real fool is the West for not realising you don't fucking poke bears no matter how well armed you are. Especially ones that supply 30% of your food and energy!

Did they think it was going to be like Iraq and Libya?

[goaded]

Viktor Yanukovych and Volodymyr Zelenskyy were never in the same election. The rest of what you wrote is equally inaccurate.

It was never "only a matter of time before a full scale war broke out", it was entirely Putin's choice, and he thought Ukraine would be like Iraq and Libya, only he was wrong, wasn't he?

[Lonerup]

Agreed

[Charlesbrandonf]

In everyone’s perspective there is someone for the cause.


X thinks Russia at fault
Y think Ukrainian at Fault
Z thinks US is at fault.


All of them thinks that depending on their understanding, perspective and life, and all of them believe they’re right.


I think miss communication, inferiority, wanting to win over, rule over. These are the problems.

[goaded]

Only one country invaded another.

[Charlesbrandonf]

True, knowing you’re voilent, knowing you’re strong, if I did anything with out touching you and You warned me about hitting me and then I still don’t stop and trigger your patience. Would you control yourself or would you come to fight me?

[goaded]

I'd walk away because I'm an adult. Russia has been doing a slow motion invasion of Ukraine since 2014. Ukraine never touched Russian territory.

A better analogy would be if we were neighbours and you started driving over my lawn to get to your place. If it was just a corner, me and our neighbours might object but not do much. Drive through my garden and all our neighbours who aren't assholes will come to my aid because they know their places may well be next.

[Charlesbrandonf]

It’s good you see that, not a lot of people are walking away they want to win, yes it’s fact, some by words verbally, some by actions. Even states put sanctions to many countries. Trumps Muslim ban. These are also acts which are not friendliest. Words can also attack is my feeling.

I think every one acts in their way. So I can’t judge or tell everyone to act in my way.

I’d ask everyone to act In a way to resolve it peacefully. Therapists must attend and help the interpreters of one’s intentions clearly. They have good ways calm people down. And politics sure need that.

[goaded]

The possibility to "resolve it peacefully" went away the instant Russia invaded, and the blame for that falls solely in Putin's lap.

"War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

[Lonerup]

@goaded Russia has been warning NATO of its eastward expansion for years. Ukraine was the red line the Russians couldn't let NATO cross. Now, why is Putin being blamed for protecting the sovereignty of his country and people and why did the US have to push towards the east? It is American propaganda, don't you see it yet? And what about the times when the Americans dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and literally wiped out cities? Weren't they innocent people? Wasn't that a "mass murder" of the Japanese people? What about the times when the US drone strikes killed innocents in Afghanistan? If all of this was fair, Russia's invasion of Ukraine should be no different! Wake up! The US is using you!!

[Lonerup]

@goaded Sadly countries can't "walk away"

[goaded]

Has NATO been invading all these countries? Their massed military crossing the borders and deposing their democratically elected leaders in order to take them over? No.

Or have sovereign countries made a rational decision that they want to be protected from invasion by joining a collective security system whose independent member states agree to defend each other against attacks by third parties? Yes.

Did Russia just prove them all right for doing so by invading Ukraine? I think so.

Russia could have joined to be protected against China.

[Charlesbrandonf]

I think everyone at their role is doing their best to their knowledge.

They’re elected for some reason.

You sound like you hate Putin. I don’t love him but I don’t hate him. And so for everyone. Everything he does looks like a matter to you.

I have no knowledge of running the country.

Are you politically well aware of things.

We can't tell anyone to our their job in our way. All three countries are there. They must figure it out if they think they’re wise. If they’re lacking something, war will breakout.

FYI in some holy scriptures “dying at war means going to heaven”.

I don’t encourage war. Just saying because you said war is evil.

I don’t see anyone as evil. I see everyone are doing their best for the best. We often mistake things of doing it on purpose. No one knows What happens tomorrow, we just believe and hope that, taking certain actions is the best we could do for the situation.

[Lonerup]

@goaded You do realize that all the NATO members are essentially vassal states of the US right? And you want Russia to join NATO and become another vassal for the US? Although that's what the US wants and this can be well justified by heart land theory by Halford Mackinder. Russia has enormous amounts of resources the Americans want to get their hands on. Now, why the hell would Russia want to lose its sovereignty to the US? This is the new age of colonisation! And, FYI, Russia doesn't need protection against china! It's just another excuse Americans have to try and take control of Russian territory! Wake up, my friend! You are being used! And you don't you have any reply for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki incidents and other such "mass murders" I talked about?

[Lonerup]

He has been whitewashed by the western media. Sad

[Charlesbrandonf]

@Lonerup what ever you say make good sense. It’s good to see how you’ve addressed these details.

[Lonerup]

@Charlesbrandonf Thanks!

[goaded]

It's arguable if Putin is elected, at least in any kind of a fair way. Most of his political opponents end up dead or in prison, so do doctors who tell the truth about covid and journalists who tell the truth about Putin.

I don't know if my feelings about Putin rise to the level of hate, I'd be content if he lived the rest of his life in obscurity, but if someone can start a war to invade another country that has done nothing to his but try to join a coalition of countries that will help protect them from exactly that, whose army murders, rapes, and pillages the civilians of that country, I don't know a better candidate to call evil and even hate.

"FYI in some holy scriptures “dying at war means going to heaven”."
They would be evil religions that follow that particular scripture, which was clearly written so that kings could start wars.

You're watching an attempted genocide in real time, and you think the perpetrator is misunderstood?

[goaded]

I would like to think that NATO members would not follow America into an unjust war, but Iraq shows that not to be the case. However, the "Multi-National Force – Iraq" included many non-NATO countries and do you really think America could have persuaded countries to attack Russia for even less reason? Kofi Annan, then the Secretary-General of the United Nations, called the invasion illegal under international law, as it violated the UN Charter.

America can't order countries to follow it into war, NATO member or otherwise, which is what would be the case if they were truly vassal states.

Then your next assumption, built on that foundation of mud, is that America would invade Russia for resources. Did America steal resources from Iraq? No. Has America invaded much easier targets in, say, Africa, for their resources? No. You're lying.

Next lies: "Russia [might] lose its sovereignty to the US". And "This is the new age of colonisation" when we're talking about a Russia which is literally in the process of invading another sovereign country for its resources, shipping its civilians off into Russia (also a war crime), and stealing everything that isn't bolted down.

And the bringing up of atomic weapons in WWII seems to be an attempt to justify using nuclear weapons now, 70 years later. But this time, it would be the country that started the war using them.

You both seem to be reciting Russian propaganda.

Say hi to your boss and tell him to get out of Ukraine.

[ibodi]

It has far causes, Western countries always try to make trade weaponize to control the third world's judgement. That may not be totally wrong but they only consider goal instead of justice ways but they dont know what is wrong after all.

Zelenskyy was not good president, cynicism. So I think that should divide the responsibility of Zelenskyy and ukraine.

Many countries are good to both russia and ukraine.

I think ukraine should have been considering the relationship.

[Jdjfjcjj]

Everyone responsible in some part. European NATO members, Americans, Russians, Ukrainians, etc

Ukrainians likely being used by other countries to serve their purpose while not having to commit any men just cheap money that is printed and has less and less value

[OddBeMe]

Putin
Global transportation and supply issues caused by the pandemic.

[BJP21]

Oligarchies and elitist corporations seizing control.

[FunkyMonkee]

Biden!!

[Anonymous]

Putin, who else?

[Lonerup]

May I know to which country you belong?