Here in the U. S. its age 18. do you feel this is a good age to allow people to vote? Personally I feel you should be allowed to vote when you start paying taxes
You know back in the founding time, only land owners could vote. Which in a way made sense, because they were the ones who would have to pay to run the country. There was no income tax, and people voting who had no problem to vote to raise taxes on the others would be an issue.
I like the idea that you have to pay taxes to be able to vote, those who don't... obviously love the idea of voting for people to raise taxes on others, not themselves.
Then again, someone might even give up their right to vote if it means they have to pay zero taxes. Wouldn't that be a interesting choice now.
I've never liked the idea that people who have no dog in the game, get to vote on raising taxes for others, be it property taxes or for Democrats who love to raise taxes then give that money to others in wealth transfers.
I think there needs to be a constitutional amendment that says the government CANNOT tax one person or entity and give the money to another person or entity.
This would stop the government from giving money to big businesses or taking it from one person and giving to another. It would stop the wealth transfer socialism... but still allow usage socialism.
Usage socialism is like a gas tax, you only pay it if you use it, it isn't a wealth transfer from one paying taxer payer to someone else.
@TroyDT2 Pretty much, which is where that amendment would come in. Let everyone vote, but no taxing one person/entity to give to another. Rather than taking votes away.
Of course, its fine to tax a person/entity and use that to pay bills, defense, or other government contracts. As a service is being provided.
The issue wasn't so much who was paying for everything as who had a stake in the community as apposed could just up and leave after the guy they voted for destroyed the place.
This is really why rural Regions of States voting to secede and join more agreeable neighbors makes more sense than people simply up and leaving.
Nearly everyone who can't live in a city is working in an industry closely tied to the land. If they leave the land is largely abandoned.
Can't add much to that. We just don't want the country run by children as they have no respect for anyone or anything lately.
@DubiousIntentions A child may be expected to have poor judgement, lack of respect is poor parenting and schooling.
@Aerissa_Jade I should like to mention that the existing 11 page Federal constitutions does not grant congress such a power, but rather allows them to tax for enumerated proposes.
You need to address the abuse of the necessary and proper and general welfare qualification.
At the moment politically it seems rather clear the country is too far gone down the road of unlimited centralized power to pass any such amendment.
We might be better off if we break up and then select regions could get enough support for the original constitution. The remainder would simply continue to centralized until such time that one of their leaders decides opts to use the same vast powers to remain in charge.
@monorprise Schooling only teaches us the Liberal's point of view by banning books and raising the presence of LGBQ and cross dressers parading in front of children. Also meth heads don't make good teachers, yet having an open border opens everyone up to all sorts of drugs that kill or turn a person's mind to mush.
"I've never liked the idea that people who have no dog in the game, get to vote on raising taxes for others"
Dogs? You mean like all the ones in Washington who will raise taxes and screw you over, no matter what side of politics you're on? WHO LET THEM OUT? !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojULkWEUsPs
@MCheetah If any of you tried to Teach any of this in a US school you would probably not only be fired but jailed.
@DubiousIntentions Whats amazing is how they managed to talk us into surrendering soo much of our money to do this. We pay between 7,000(Utah) and 30,000(New York) dollars per year per student for this "education" depending on State. That is between 140,000 and 900,000 dollars per classroom a year, not including bonuses like the COVID payments.
An absurd amount of money we the tax payer are forced by the State to pay for these corrupt and ineffective educators.
As I said to someone who asked a similar question, I think 18 is the perfect age because if you are old enough to serve your country, you should have a say in its’ governance! By the same measure, if you are not a full citizen ie: you cannot serve your country, or even sign a contract… you are definitely not old enough to vote! Besides, I was 16 more recently than most here, and I vividly remember just how immature most 16 y/o guys are, and a great many girls too. I definitely would never want the future of our nation resting on the decision of 16 y/o’s
I'm actually conflicted, but I answered 21 because our braisn don't finish developing until 25, and ideally we would wait until age 25 to vote, so we really aren't going to be making optimal voting decisions at 18, and 16 would be even less likely to make good decisions. Ler's be honest, we were all morons at 16. But I'm conflicted because 16 year olds can work and pay taxes, so it seems fair to be able to vote. And since most voters are idiots. Most adults are hardly smarter than most teenagers, so would it really make much of a difference if 16 year olds could also vote? I'd need more research I think before I decided. Perhaps we should just try lowering or raising the age in different states or cities and testing out how it goes.
But ultimately, I think 21 is still a better age because finishing high school IS NOT enough education to prepare people to vote, so age 18 is too young. At 21, we've all either finished college, are almost done, or have been out of high school long enough to work and learn how the world really works. That should be plenty of preparation to vote as wisely as possible.
Your reasoning is sound, although I would like to add that good judgement requires actual experience with the world. Not simply a stake in the game, and a mature brain.
Thus the working 18 year old may have a stake in the game but they lack both mature (military can still easily talk them into charging machine gun nests) and experience (they dont actually know how the world really works yet).
@Apple1996 probably could lower the age to 16 for military service. Probably save a lot of young lives too.
@Apple1996 Yes indeed and I am thankful for tier service, and sacrifice. There are many who are brave enough to make theses choices, but not nearly enough for a military in large scale war. Nor can we be entirely sure which among those who volunteer would in fact be willing to do it."
The point is not to say military is dumb, many if not most jobs in the military can in fact be done quite safely, simply to point out something about the young which makes them more ideal for military service.
But people don't get out of college until they are 22 or 23 and they have no idea what the issues of living and paying taxes are yet. They are too busy on Tinder and Tic Toc and hanging out on Instagram. What do they know about money matters? Most can't name the last 5 Presidents we have had.
@Apple1996 We acrually have no problems with military employment numbers right now because we aren't at war. And if a draft comes, we'll be fine either way. Regardless, you are overlooking how 18 year olds are the ones most easily convinced to join the military, instead of becoming an electrician or whatever, and the ones easiest to convince to kill and be killed while charging into a semi-suicidal situation. There is ample research on the predatory nature of U. S. military recruitment FOR COMBATANTS, mostly preying on the lower socioeconomic class. Poor people make good fodder. I wish it weren't the case, but the evidence is there. Increasing the age would decrease the severity of this predation. The bright side is that non-combat jobs in the military are fantastic options for people of all ages.
And actually, 18 is not part of the optimum age for combat since guys are not fully physically developed until 20 or so. Men's physical prime is actually about age 21-30. That is likely the best age for combatants.
If you're not going to allow a 17 year old to vote on how the country is run, you shouldn't be allowing them to join the army and get sent off to die, trying to defending.
And no, adding any other criteria would be a terrible idea - it reminds me of "Starship Troopers", where you have to join the military before you're considered "a citizen" and allowed to vote, have children, hold public office, etc.
Basing the system on taxation would be perhaps the worst idea imaginable - the rich would just decide that they'll enact the kind of policies that ensure they will stay rich, and ensure that the poor stay poor, and there's nothing the poor can do about it, because they're too poor to pay taxes and therefore vote.
Aside from being an awful and undemocratic idea, it would also lead to constant revolutions / anarchy, as there are a lot more poor people than there are rich people, and the only thing stopping the poor from just forcefully taking everything from the rich, is the acceptance that the government can do the same thing without any of the violence, through taxation.
The rich don't pay taxes. I think you can join the military at 17 but you likely won't be fully trained until you are 18.
Most rich people pay a lot of tax. 38% of the country's total income tax revenue, comes from just 1% of tax payers. They use tax avoidance schemes to minimize the rate of tax they pay, so it may be a tiny amount in relative terms (ie. compared to their income or savings, and compared to how much they have benefited from being resident in the country), but in finite terms, it's still a lot.
Nope. They are supposed to pay 38%, they don't. The find ways to avoid paying it.
@USLegionary That's what he just said.
No, they DO contribute 38.8% (or at least they did in 2019, which is the most recent year for which data has been released). I'm not talking about the 37% tax bracket - that's something else entirely, which just happens to be a similar number. In fact, the top 1% of tax payers contribute more than the entire bottom 90% combined.
taxfoundation.org/.../
So we are told.
@MuddyMole "If you're not going to allow a 17 year old to vote on how the country is run, you shouldn't be allowing them to join the army and get sent off to die, trying to defending."
- This^
If you don't let the military recruit 17 and 18 year olds into the army to "charge machine gun nests" and die for your country. The Military will have a much harder time talking enough fully developed 25 year olds into doing it in their stead.
The unfortunate fact is what makes an 18 year old attractive to the army also makes them less sane as a voter in democracy.
@monorprise what kind of insane take is that LMAO
@USLegionary The "rich" pay many times their share in taxes, and even work for the goverment extensively on the side thus earning them those deductions.
If you don't like that side work have your congressman eliminate tax deductions for all people. Most all Republicans would vote for that.
Good luck thou because tax deductions and credits are the bread and butter of Federal politician's domestic power.
@monorprise you're a republican aren't you.
@ChefPapiChulo It's just the nature of human biology. Your brain is the most complicated machine in your body, it's whole propose is to learn then tell you how to live.
Because our brains are soo enormous and complex for humans this learning and developing part takes an exceptionally long time, longer than any other animal on Earth for our life span due to the complexity of our brains.
Naturally to give us a competitive advantage in this learning during our development our brains also evolved/were programed to be more naive and trusting. Hence why its easier to talk a kid into doing and believing insane things, like charging a machine gun Nest, or voting for Democrats.
Our evolution presumed we would live and grow up in small groups that actually cared about our individual survival as that was the condition in which human ancestors lived for countless millions of years.
Regardless as this development largely stops around 25 most people start to become less and less naive.
In other less social animals like cats it starts sooner and goes way further. While even more social animals like Dogs might never really mature unlike their ancestors wolfs.
@monorprise did you just poorly attempt to explain how the brain works?
you're a bot dude.
@ChefPapiChulo No, i was simply explaining why kids are naive and easily talked into believing an doing foolish and hazardous things.
Its not simply that they are working with an incomplete machine, that machine is specifically evolved to be more naive and trusting during its development period to facilitate learning.
This makes their judgement rather poor even if they had a lot of knowledge.
The point was the military age is as such to allow the army to take advantage of this biological fact about kids. The same fact however makes them undesirable as voters for the same reason of being per-disposed to being taken advantage of by politicians.
@monorprise that is the most retarded argument i have ever heard. you could make that argument until you get to your age group and the only people voting are retards like you.
yeah no buddy you're either a bot or completely delusional thinking any of that is true.
@ChefPapiChulo You will forgive me if I think that you may be Gaslighting me with claims of me being a retard or bot when you fail to site any spesfic thing you disagree with or reason for said disagreement.
You also made a claim that frankly is unrelated about my argument being too generic for any age, when in fact I gave you a spesfic age 25 where our scientific and historical knowledge suggest would be idea to start.
Clearly my GAG profile suggest I am well past that age, thus making your statement even less relevant to me.
@monorprise you're out of your mind.
it would not stop at 25. GOP are losing power more than ever and are trying to restrict the voting rights of anyone who isn't a white male. thats where this talk leads.
You are wasting your time. What a lot of people don't understand is corporations get taxed twice. The difference being investment income is taxed at a lower rate than regular job income. This is why Warren Buffett famously said his secretary pays more taxes than he does. He was speaking about the tax rate, not the amount. I own a consulting business incorporated in a US State. Because of this, my company files 1040 just like I do. If I was not able to deduct MAJOR business costs I would lose almost half my income to Federal and State taxes EVEN before I paid myself then I would have to pay taxes again on that income. As I said, you are wasting your time, I stopped trying to get people to understand this decades ago.
@ChefPapiChulo I sited reasoning and evidence you have yet to do either. As for your predictions about the GOP if you turn America into a 1 party state the goverment will collapse like California.
AS it stands the GOP is doing very well in a lot of states much better than ever before, The states we are losing is largely a result of the fact that democrat policies are forcing even democrats to flee their states for ours.
If Democrats don't learn the same thing will happen to whatever state they move to until they do start voting the same with their ballots as their feet.
@monorprise you dont cite reasoning because thats nonsense, and you provided no evidence. you're delusional.
@ChefPapiChulo upload.wikimedia.org/.../...aFrontalAsymSevere.jpg
You’re a serial killer.
Opinion
68Opinion
Whenever I think about this question, I always feel the younger the better. 16 is a good age because most politicised people in life start this process around 16/17/18 but in a democratic society if you give one 16 year old the vote, you have to give all 16 year olds the vote. I suppose a fair assumption would be that they would only go out and vote if they were interested.
Legal restrictions , I can see the premise of paying taxes as a stipulation but like any argument there will be cases of "Well I didn't mean to take the vote from them". I am thinking in the term of Irish law say a person who was ill all their life being paid sick benefit would be deemed as never paid taxes but would receive credits. So if you say anyone who has paid tax or received , you are very close to everybody over that age. I am not American so do not know the current process, I am presuming it is citizenship for Presidential elections and legal status for all other elections. I would be okay with that , it is not perfect but like democracy it is flawed not perfect. You never know when one day a voting restriction may affect you or someone you know. Like say , going into extreme example , I am 53 and people decide to question the right of the elderly to vote.
Sorry went off on a bit of tangent there.
If an 18-year-old is considered old enough and responsible enough to fight and die for their country, then that should be the age they are allowed to buy firearms, tobacco, alcohol and vote.
If even ONE of these is deemed too much responsibility and cannot be done until age 21, then it should be 21 for ALL these things, not just some.
The argument behind ALL age-restricted activities is usually something along the lines of "we need to ensure they are old enough and RESPONSIBLE enough to do this activity". Basically, these boil down to judgement calls on the part of the individual at that age. The SAME EXACT 18 year-old we trust to fight in the military will have the SAME EXACT mental capacity and judgement for ALL age-restricted activities and purchases.
Personally, I believe the right to vote, buy tobacco, alcohol and firearms should be the exact same, whether it is 18 or 21. There should not be one age for one and another for this that or the third. I believe that age should be 21, which is the legal age one must reach to enter law enforcement in many parts of the country.
Your brain really isn't finished developing until around 25.
The only reason the military doesn't wait until 25 to recruit is precisely because they need physically capable men they can easily talk into charging the proverbial machine gun nests.
Such immaturity is not exactly a sane qualification for voting.
@monorprise just because the brain doesn't develop until 25 doesn't mean you don't have capacity to make good decisions. The rig wing thinks that all the young voters will magically change their minds on politics once they are older. Not really, they are not eating brainwashing nationalist propaganda like the previous generations did.
By the way you can't vote, but you can drive, buy a gun, forced to have a baby... It's laughable. To have a kid you have agency, to vote you don't.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 Althou its true many young people will not change their minds, as Ideas and ways of thinking set when you are young are by design frequently carried forward for life even if they are harmful.
The idea that people today are not being subject to propaganda ridiculous and you know it. Today's propaganda is more manipulative target and effective than ever before.
Indeed this is the whole business model of the tech companies to target and direct propaganda to people to get them to buy spesfic things.
Modern schooling is also packed with more ideological propaganda pushing agenda than ever before. They are even censoring people and information they don't agree with now, they call it 'miss-information'.
All of which as with any elite oligarchy they really comes down to the fact that they don't trust anyone with all the facts.
Such as where COVID came from, the effectiveness of lock downs and masks. In those cases consequences of such suppressed information begin true eventually insured that truth came out regardless and they had to admit it.
In many other cases such suppressed information was never acknowledged and in a few cases such as the ramifications of Hunter Biden's labtop documenting Joe Biden's corrupt deals with forign enemies. They were only ever acknowledged AFTER the election, even thou they knew very well it was legitimate for up to a year before.
They also knew very well Joe Biden had a habit of such corrupt deals going back decades.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 The whole point of not letting kids have compete freedom is precisely because they have poor judgement both because of lack of experience and an undeveloped brain.
We gradually let them have more and more freedom and influence as they get older and that judgement improves to a level we judge sufficient for the risk and its consequences.
Last on the list of privileges granted are those with the most consequential effects on them and others such as driving and finally voting.
This is because we know they are still highly impressionable and will do stupid things.
The question of at what point do they become mature enough to vote is a question of at what point is their judgement sufficiently developed and experienced to be trusted with enormous power over everyone else.
The fact that they are soo useful to the military for being most easily talked into doing such reckless things. As well as being known among the general population to be most likely to do other similarly foolish things at such age, are both fairly strong proof that we KNOW they do not have good judgement.
@monorprise that's a lot of text! I will try to resume.
Yes people can change their mind about many things, including politics, but ever emerging generation is more and more progressive than the next. Even the boomers are more than their parents are. It's always how it works.
What you call propaganda I call information. It's no surprise that the states that have the highest education per capita vote mostly left. Not because the schools pass propaganda, but because they pass information.
Propaganda was the "country, God and family" crap that the previous generations had drilled into their skulls.
Lockdowns, masks and vaccines are effective. And this is not because of the media. Go to Google Scholar and see what scientific articles have to say. People with good formal education know the basics for distinguish BS from actual information.
Regarding Biden shady things I know nothing about, but I know there isn't a single political party in any county that doesn't has some level of corruption. Trump and the republicans are no exception.
I agree that the kids are highly manipulative. And they carry out that beliefs for the rest of their lives. The brainwashing that caught boomers and older generations prove that very well. But in the world of the internet and information kids have access to all kinds of ideas.
It's naive to believe that the same "country, God, family" crap is not being presented to the young generation. It is! But with the better access to information they can indeed make a more informed decision.
Not that they always have the best judgement... but neither most of the old ones do.
@monorprise "Your brain really isn't finished developing until around 25. " : Scientists say that age 25 is when your brain stops developing... and that's also the age when it starts DETERIORATING.
So the other side of the coin, do you really want people voting whose brains are falling apart more and more each day?
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 If you think every generation is more progressive than the last then your sample of observation is narrow both geographically and chronologically to periods in civilizations in which the left has dominated schools.
This admittedly is rather more practical and thus common in ever more organized and centralized populations, as well as desirable among its leadership. When you get down to it Progressive is simply defined as accepting of more and more centralized control over everything, thus less freedom.
Hence why leadership tends to push for this in the interest of their own more expansive power and thus secure control, and why its more practical among organized populations able to so organize such control.
Ultimately however said populations and civilizations collapse precisely because they lack the freedom and accountability to solve their problems.
@zeitgeist057 Brain cells are among the longest lived cells in your body, and thou they are not immortal their deterioration is at least for 3-4 decades in consequential compared to the growing wisdom and skill they store.
You can start to question a person's mental capacity as they approach late 70's and 80s.
Until then they have an ever greater amount of life time experience in relationships, politics, family, and their profession.
@monorprise Boomers, Millennials, Gen Z... Yes, we have been getting more and more progressive. Unless you are talking about specific Asian and African countries. But in the developed world, yes we have. No question.
Centralized control? It's the opposite. Socially what the left wants is to people to be free to express their individualism whitout discrimination. Aka more freedom.
Do you know what is a great way to control people? Look at what fascism regimes did. Lower formal education, having people focus more on the nation than on themselves, no separation between state and church, etc. That is how you control people. That's how you take away freedom.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 If the left desires people to be free to express their individuality then they would not be demanding control of their healthcare, education, retirement, employment, and speech among other aspects of life.
I understand leftist leaders claim to want to control all theses aspects of our life to somehow make people "Free of worry" about not having them "Good enough" but in practice they have only ever done precisely the opposite for the propose of their own power.
Are we talking about the original fascist out of Italy and NAZI Germany or some brand new yet untried form of fascism? The original system didn't lower education, and wasn't really interested in religion. All totalitarian states demand and encourage the people's obedience to said state as a method of control, so that is hardly unique.
Its rather hard to get people to act against their own interest otherwise. Seriously you need to take a closer look at history and what actual happened not just during that brief period but going back hundreds of years before and in the hundred years since.
@monorprise the idea is that the big corporations lose control over those areas and pass it to people. Power to the people is the idea.
It's not free of worry. Is simply free.
Literally all fascism had a religious belief. I am from Portugal, we had a fascist dictatorship and yes, education levels were very low and forced religiosity was definitely a thing.
It's not hard at all. Capitalism is making people act against their own interests for a long time now. Still doing it today. The mass is poor, the one on the top, super rich. And still they convince the people at the bottom that they are not at the top just because they don't work hard enough...
You make a good point! Technically, kids with jobs earning over the poverty line are being taxed without representation. When i was young, my checks were taxed but i got everything back when i filed my returns. Is that not how it works anymore?
Or are you just saying BECAUSE the taxes are taken out and used BEFORE they’re returned, that those kids should have representation?
I’m not against the voting age being reduced, but i am FOR a series of tests before you get your voting privileges. Seems like kids would actually have an advantage since one of the tests would be over history and government. Ell oh ell!
Not sure how it works but if the government gives you taxes back that's more of a choice by the government, you have still been taxed.
That's tricky: a ''test'' will be set up by those in power. That's a backdoor for manipulation tools.
Age of majority. In England that's 18, the same age you can buy alcohol. Now I know some pseudo-advanced countries don't allow alcohol until you're 21 and still think execution is a deterrent to crime despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
The problem right now in America is that certain elected officials want to take the vote away from people who are likely to vote against them, ignoring the constitution they swore to uphold and in fact calling for the repealing of the 26th amendment - despite saying amendments are sacred, like the 2nd...
I do think personally that people should turn out to vote in person and voting by post should only be done in extreme circumstances like military or government personal seving abroad or the sick, or just people who live in remote locations like in alaska.
You just listed the majority of postal ballots. Sometimes employers are total dicks over leave so employees are forced to take annual leave around election time.
I'd have to vote by post in the UK at the moment as I'm living in South Africa but I'm still a UK taxpayer so I still get a vote. I'd love to be able to get back at election time next time though.
If it's physically possible to get to a polling station then the only more valuable service a citizen can perform is jury duty.
I dont think you should be eligible to vote in a country you don't live in.
Voting is all day.
I'm a UK citizen. My passport is British and since the ideological differences would put South Africa in bed with Russia in the event of a larger conflict erupting, I'm entitled to a say under British Law in the parliament that represents my interest to the King (that's taking a bit of getting used to) and for whom I could - technically - be called up by to fight.
I may live in South Africa, but as the poem says
"If I should die, think only this of me
That there's some corner of a foreign field that is, forever, England"
21 is the highest semi-realistic age. But I would prefer 30. By 30 most people start to understand how things work. Even at 21, most people have extremely little knowledge and understanding of things. At 18 they don't know shit. Every 18 year old out there will look back some day and admit that it's true.
Also, only people who own property should be allowed to vote on property tax. I've moved around a lot. When I was renting, especially when I lived there for less than a few years, I never voted on property taxes. I didn't think it was my place to vote for someone else to pay taxes when I wouldn't be paying them myself.
18 years seems a reasonable age to me. A legal age must be set anyway, and why not the legal age of adulthood? Seems logic to me. Sure some people may already be able to emit a responsible vote at a younger age, while some older people will probably never be mentally responsible to vote.
Answer G may still be worth considering in certain circumstances (Only people who work and pay taxes or have paid taxes should be allowed to vote), but I'm not sure a population would live in peace with that idea.
It should be the age, you guys think gives you the best chance in elections.
This is like when libs floated the idea of a standard of education for voting. what is the point of whining? Turn out your voters or appeal to a larger portion of the electorate.
Actually think 18. Some libs want it at 16 because they figure teens will automatically vote for them.
There are a lot of mistakes being made in these comments. The US is a Federal Constitutional Republic. The US Constitution is supposed to be the supreme law of the land. NOT a majority opinion. That Constitution was amended in 1971 by the 26th amendment setting that age at 18. This is only coming up because the Gen Zs voted democrat heavily. Some believe this was because of the student loan forgiveness that has now been blocked by the Federal Courts. Since I don't share my political views on this website I will stop here and will NOT say my position on the voting age.
I like the paying taxes and owning property rule for voting, as it establishes you have a stake in the community your welding power over.
Even still people should not be allowed to vote until their brain has finished developing around 25.
18 is far too young and frankly so is 21 the only reason went that young was because military needed kids still undeveloped enough to talk into charging a machine gun nest. How on Earth is being talked into charging a machine gun nest a positive qualification for voting in a sane country?
If fucked up old white guys can send you to the front lines of a bullshit military action for no real reason other than profit, you should be able to vote at whatever age THAT is! And when and if you return from said experience of being shot at, you should be able to legally buy a freaking drink!
Well Obama was a middle aged black man...
That's not really the point and I'm sure you know that.
If paying taxes is a criterium... how is it, that the super-rich are allowed to vote?
When I was 18 myself, I did not have a full political understanding. 21 then looks a little better to me.
However: also the young ones are a part of society - it would not be right to ignore them. So I'd like to see them represented in a separated fraction; not with full legal options, but with a voice to be heard.
The super rich generally I would say don't exercise their vote, I can't back that up but why would the top 1%ers vote at all when they can buy political favours and influence political policies that affect them with money?
In some way this sounds as if those with less money will ''buy'' their politician with a 'vote'?
Well, if we go by when you pay taxes, that could be as young as 14. Some states legally allow you to work that young and if you work, you may be taxed on your income.
Personally, I don't believe voting should be restricted by age. I'd prefer it have three qualifications 1.) You are governed by the body you are voting for. 2.) You pass a test of factual answers regarding the policies on the poll, to prove you actually know what you're voting for. 3.) You have a diploma or degree proving you are educated regarding the political system used in your state or nation.
Most people vote pretty much blind. I believe this to be extremely detrimental to our nation. I find knowledge and understanding to be far more important than age, so I don't much see a reason for an age restriction at all.
I put "pay taxes = right to vote". You should be able to decide where your money goes.
I also think being young shouldn't disqualify you from voting. People say things about brain development or immaturity, but on the other end of the spectrum we have senile people who can't drive, are barely able to take care of themselves (or cannot) and who have outdated ideas about society who are allowed to vote. I think it's fair to let younger people have a voice since these older people have a voice. Some of the older people are going to vote on things that are going to be implemented and effect the younger people, but the older generation some of those voters are going to die of old age before they feel the effects of their choices! It's the young people who have to live with the decisions.
18. The problem in the USA isn't the voting age. As Tytler put it, "A democracy (in context a representative democracy like we have) cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Our We have too many leeches wanting free stuff at the expense of others.
The problem isn't the masses but a tiny minority putting their grubby hands into the public treasury, we have a few leeches growing very fat. Leeches like Jim Simons, Israel Englander, Steve Cohen, Carl Icahn and others.
Keep it at 18. Everything should just be lowered to 18 tbh like drinking, smoking, rental cars. The 21-25 rules are just stupid. People are adults at 18. They aren't little kids anymore. At that age I had a son and a husband that was joining the military. I was a fully grown woman at that age. It would be ridiculous to not allow a 18 year old to vote when they have their whole life together.
it has to be 18 because that's the age they can draft although no one was drafted since 1975 but a draft could happen they came mighty close in 2004-2005... so if it's 21 it can't be because you can send men and women to war at 18 but can't vote...16 your not really an adult yet and you may be persuaded by something stupid a politican may throw out there
I voted g. If you work and pay taxes and take care of yourself and your life you should be able to vote. American citizens only though. I don't care if you have a visa or a green card or whatever. American citizens who work and don't collect snap or hud etc should be allowed to vote
I honestly also think an IQ test should be completed before voting.
Most people would hit the anon button with this reply, but since I'm not a snowflake... go ahead and attack me hounds
Let's face it until you are working for a living you haven't the maturity that comes from supporting yourself in a place to live etc and the ambitions to improve your situation.
So it should be then that you get to vote across the Western countries.
18 is young enough but, maybe it SHOULD be reverted to 21. Part of the reason it was lowered to 18 was because, at that time, we were sending 17 and 18 year old KIDS over to Vietnam to risk being killed and a lot of people felt that, if they're old enough to be shipped over there to risk their lives for that bullshit war, they should also be old enough to get the right to vote, too!
I just heard someone on YT yesterday sat should be 26 because our brains are not fully formed until we're 24! In a way, I agree! But then, there's still lots of people that take a LOT longer for that to happen!! My nephew is in his early 30's and is still getting arrested for childish shit like, graffiti!!
Just move EVERYTHING to 21. Voting, buying alcohol/tabacco/MJ, gambling, driving, joining the military and voting. Everything.
Sex? The porn industry would collapse lol
Might as well. Done with the cherry picking. You either an adult at 18 or you are not.
I said the opposite move it all to 18. That's when a person is considered a legal adult. Moving everything to 21 would be ridiculous. Between 18-21 I had 2 kids, a husband that joined the military (had been overseas 3 times by 21), moved us very far from family so lived completely on our own. 2 paid off cars, multiple savings accounts.
Not sure what else more I could have had to be considered a adult but by 21 I was already deep into adulthood. It all starts at 18 for most people obviously some people are slow started but really most people have some if not all of their lives together during those years. Would be very unfair to make people like that wait to vote
@Apple1996 i know there are plenty of exceptions to the rule. But society keeps bouncing back and forth on what age a person is really a fully legal adult.
I guess if we could like 18 year olds legally drink, buy pot and gamble than some of them would do a lot of stupid things. But seriously why is it so back and forth on all of this?
I really don't think anything is back and forth besides the drinking/alcohol. And honestly those depend on state like Texas you can drink under 21 If someone else over 21 is supervising you. I did it for my husband when I was over 21 and he wasn't yet.
But really for everything else is 18.
Changing being adult to 21 would be bad to cuz then parents could still control their kids for longer which isn't good since by 18 most are seniors in hs or off to college. Better off to let them go off instead of mommy and daddy controlling them for longer
@Apple1996 well it’s just all back and forth. You either a full adult or not at a certain age.
If I am given the legal responsibilities as an adult, I should be able to vote. There’s a reason why we move away from allowing only land owners to vote. Their vote will not benefit the people of the country, they only will benefit themselves.
The government still governs over people, regardless if they pay taxes or not. Hence they should be represented.
I do not think one is old enough to vote nor even care enough about educating themselves in order to pick their leader at the age of eighteen.
So raise the bar to at least 20. You need some time to mature a little before you vote.
But this is ONLY my personal opinion. I still respect people who think differently than myself.
Age: 25(brain doesn't fully form until 25)
Pay taxes (greater understanding of voting risks/rewards)
Must be able to be drafted, excluding the physically disabled from this rule. (sign of commitment to protecting your countrymen & giving more incentive to vote wisely.)
I think the legal voting age should be even older. Like at least 22. And you have to pay taxes or have military service, in order to vote. Let's go the Starship Troopers route.
SERVICE GUARANTEES CITIZENSHIP!
16. I like what you said paying taxes but sales tax makes this too messy. But 16 also starts every branch of military trying to recruit you and that is the point to focus on.
I'm thinking when people age out of the foster care system. The military is always recruiting around them and they should be able to vote before being recruited. There's already a GED program.
If it were up to me I’d bring in a monarchy or at least filter out who can vote based off mental status, IQ, and criminal status.
If your not mentally well you can’t vote
If you don’t have an IQ of 120 or above then you can’t vote
If you committed a felony in the past 20 years you can’t vote
If your currently incarcerated you can’t vote
Etc
Just because your 40 doesn’t mean your smart and it doesn’t mean you know what’s best for your country.
D, but LOLing at option A. You can legally buy beer at 16, here (but you can't drive until you're 18).
That's mad.
In this day and age to simply say someone should be alive to vote garners my attention. Dead people should not be allowed to vote. With this question comes when should someone be able to buy a beer? If you can fight for your life in the Military, you should be able to enjoy an adult beverage you would think. It doesn't work that way though.
years ago, it was 21 to vote, but you could be drafted and sent to war to kill or possibly be killed.
The argument was that you were enough of an adult to do that, die of kill for your country, but not mature enough to vote.
One of those things that made you go huh.
So the wheels were put in motion and eventually the law was changed to 18.
18. There should be one age of majority at which you can drive, vote, fuck, smoke, drink, own and carry any firearm, work, marry or join the military.
If you're old enough to die for your country then you're an adult with all rights both natural and constitutional.
18 is perfect as it is. You’re old enough to be drafted, pay taxes, join the army/military/marines/etc., and old enough to understand what we are voting for each time.
I believe the age is fine, but people younger than 18 shouldn't have to pay taxes if they aren't voting. Nor should anyone under 18 have to work in defence.
I say keep it at 21. Your mind and views can change ages 16 to 19. Plus those are high school ages, you're still learning and haven't got a total grasp of the outside world.
16 would be great but 18 isn’t terrible. Same as college age.
If you are under 18 and have a job then you should be able to vote. Otherwise when you turn 18.
This had only become a concern because the youth came out in vast numbers and voted Democrat. The GOP could win their support with more popular legislation and taking climate change and student debt relief seriously but no they'd rather raise the legal voting age...
26th amendment. If you're old enough to be drafted, you're old enough to vote
If I can die in combat, drink legally and sign a contract, I should be able to vote.
With all the school shootings going on recently, I believe these teenagers need to have a voice in a matter of elections. If anything, we need a new amendment to lower the age to 16 so that they will be able to have a voice. Otherwise, they cannot say anything because they are not able to vote.
I would be in favour of 16 if everything such as the age you cam leave school and work, join the military, age of consent and all else were moved to 16. How can you be responsible enough to vote if you can't be responsible enough to look after yourself?
i think the age that you are legally allowed to join your countries army and throw away your life for your country should be the age you're allowed to vote.
i would say 18 which i also feel the drinking age should be 18 because if someone is risking their life in the military fighting for the US they should at least have the right to access of an adult beverage
Drinking age should be 18 to. If your old enough to fight for your country, your old enough to drink booze
I think if you're paying taxes you should have a say.
After your update: I wouldn't mind a 16 year old that works and pays taxes voting. I start to have a problem with some kid that 24 and hasn't done shit with their life other than school while living off a Mommy and Daddy scholarship fund.
For example... Biden promising to eliminate college debt even though he himself said it's probably unconstitutional... the kid doesn't understand it's a lie. Doesn't understand that social programs that "help" people or bigger government that costs more $$$ will mean less returned on your yearly tax return and most likely going to end up paying other sorts of taxes even more... like sales tax. They don't understand that some check of some frivolous almost useless amount as buy-your-vote money is going to be money printed out of thin air and increase inflation. We all know them... the people that don't understand anything about economics or politics and can't even manage to keep themselves out of debt. They studied really hard for some liberal arts degree because they're going to dance dance dance or tell you how bad white males are... the people that wouldn't vote before because they're too lazy, but now it gets mailed to them and they can fill it out and pop it in the mailbox. I really really (I mean really) hate having to suffer under what they vote for. Sorry for the rant... I'm going to go pay more taxes now.
@JHNS98 I wanted to mention how something like sales or property tax doesn't really affect the rich as much as it does someone that lives month to month. Get enough money there is tax loopholes like buying expensive assets or making "donations". Nothing in more irritating than seeing rich people wear clothes that say "eat the rich." I mean damn... talk about duplicitous right?
The way things are makes me feel black pilled af lately... honestly really feel we're in a long slow decline in a race to the bottom... unless I move to Texas or Florida 😂
@JHNS98 It's something most Americans don't even know unless they happen to have that type of money or took similar college classes that I have. I have no idea what it's like in Sweden and would expect the same vice versa. I would assume pretty much every government is set up with plenty of ways to cater to the rich though. Just going through the required courses for my accounting degree here exposed a bunch of financial exploits here in America that I would have never guessed existed otherwise. Little crafty tricks like writing "paid in full" on a check that only pays a small amount of the total sum, then if they cash that check, you can take them to court and claim the payment was settled. <--fucked up stuff like that. Imagine a normie that's worked their entire life to buy an investment property to sell and that dirty little trick got played on them.
Only those that work, pay taxes, US citizen and at least 18 years old.
21 years old…first real life job has been secured and z paycheck stub ‼️
At 17 years old is old enough to understand politics and decide what kind of future and country you desire to live in.
Even I was very naive at 17, and I advocated and did things that were really quite unwise and poorly considered.
The truth is your brain doesn't finish developing until around 25, prior to that your working with an incomplete system one specifically programed to be more accepting and trusting of what your told in the interest of better learning under the presumption you are only in contact with the small group of people who have an interest in your well-being.
This makes you a great candidate for the military in being more easily talked into charging a machine gun nest. However it also makes you a poor candidate for voting in a democracy, as your just as easily swayed by dishonest politicians into acting as much against your interest.
@monorprise: Bunch of 30, 40 and 50 years morons vote.
Age doesn't necessarily makes one wise nor smart.
At 17 years old, you're not a child anymore.
Problem in this country we like to treat older teens as children and that keeps them from maturing into adults.
*years old
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy The fact that many people can have questionable judgement at any age is not an argument for or against a voting age but rather against voting in general.
The question of when a person ceases to be a child is very much a question of the definition of child. For the sake of argument and relevant to the subject of voting lets say that definition is when a person is intellectually developed.
I have asserted that their brain does not finish development until around 25. Thus all other things being equal 25 is the final measurable point by which most people have finally stopped developing.
It does not mean a person is fully mature and has good judgement at that age nor any age after or before, simply that is the best measurable line upon which I suggest we would best put the voting age.
Regardless every year thereafter a larger share of the population will have better judgement resulting from greater wisdom of said experiences. Just as every year before will include a less and less intellectually developed and wise population.
@monorprise: Your argument is silly. 25 years old is when the brain fully develops?
The hell that has to do with anything on how one desires their country to be in the future?
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy What do you find silly about the argument?
25 is indeed roughly when your brain finishes physically developing.
What is silly about picking that as the best measurable place to draw the line of intellectual maturity for humans?
How is desire a relevant consideration for when a person should be trusted with power?
Children desire candy at every age should that desire entitle them to a vote in whether they have it?
Teenagers desire careless sex and danger should that desire entire them a vote in having it?
Both desire to skip school and play games all day, should that desire entitle them to a vote in doing so?
If so I think you will find their immaturity, and inexperience will lead to such poor choices very much ruining their lives before they ever had a chance to live them. This is your job as a parent to protect them by denying them said choice.
Letting them wield power over others only makes their poor and impressionable judgement even more dangerous.
@monorprise: Problem is at 18 they are legal adults and have to look out for themselves.
17 is the right age for them to have a say in their future.
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy They have the dominate say in their future regardless of their vote to effect every one else's future.
As the trillion in student dept much of which owed to students who never even graduate or did so with degrees for which there are no jobs. Obviously their judgement has not much improved in their collage years.
They need to be 30 and know the candidates, watch all of the debates and lookup statistics for how the country is going under their leadership
I think you should be able to buy alcohol at 18 to.
far too many people are allowed to vote In the US who risk nothing when they inevitably Make poor financial or military decisions which do not impact them in any way.
The reason you have to have a certain amount of property to be allowed to vote in any other democracy is because The landowners are the ones who put on body armor and pick up a weapon and go defend it in war. The landowners are the ones whose taxes fund all the programs.
16. Same age as you can drive a car
About 25-26, or when the frontal lobes of the cerebral cortex finally mature. Interesting to note that this is the age when the cost of car insurance drops a few notches, like, maybe somebody is starting to USE their brain by that time.
25. The age when your critical thinking brain has fully developed
I voted for 20. At 18, you're just out of school and don't really know the world yet.
Morally if the laws effect you than you should have the right to vote. But I’m satisfied with 18.
Also wouldn’t be apposed to if you’re paying taxes I was from a very young age. Sales tax… 12 with a paper route.
If 18 is good enough for you to die for your country, it's good enough for you to vote.
This argument is often paired with 12 year olds being tried as adults. Why can’t they vote as one? Personally I think both are too soon. But 16 seems a good spot. Younger gens are getting more mature and smarter as tech grows, etc.
if at the age of three you buy a piece of gum you have paid taxes. Not an age to be voting. 18 was made with the argument that if you were old enough to go fight in a what you were old enough to vote.
25 should be the voting age in all states, just like buying alcohol and other tobacco products
I think if you’re old enough to die for your country, you should be allowed to vote
Young people don't know anything. They shouldn't be allowed to vote till 25.
Look at how manipulated Gen Z are. Full of absolutely nonsense and don't know basic questions
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