Should USA invade, or otherwise, secure and stabilize Venezuela?

[lightbulb27]

If people are so desperate by the 1000's in Venezuela to risk their lives coming to the USA, should the USA take action to stabilize the country, by any means necessary?

“There if we work, we work only to eat. We don’t have enough to buy ourselves a pair of shoes. … That’s why we are coming here,” she says. “Because we know that here you can survive. Here you can live well.”

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/13/us/title-42-brownsville-migrants-cec/index.html

You can be assured if USA does not, China or Russia will. We might as well solve the problems.

Yes, whatever it takes

No, only with diplomacy

No, stay out Venezuela is ok as it is

Other

[Lliam]

It is the U. S. that has been causing Venezuela's economic hardships since 1988 with it's attempts to overthrow the government and strangle the country with sanctions. And Britain stole Venezuela's gold.

The U. S., IMF and World Bank want Venezuela to become neoliberal (fascist), sell off its land and resources to multinational corporations, and impose austerity measures on it's people.

The U. S. is incapable of benevolence. Any pretense to do so is imperialistic propaganda.

So if the U. S. really wants to help Venezuela, it will lift the siege on that country.

[strateguy632]

to ll, you ignored the CAUSE for those sanctions.

[strateguy632]

about benevolence, not interfering for iraq qurds would be not benevolent but u. s. did interfere. but hard for some to give credit to bush r. n. c. hmm...

[msc545]

@strateguy632 Yes, hard to give credit to a war criminal.

[OlderAndWiser]

Venezuela is definitely NOT okay as it is, but this should be a response from the UN, and not just the US. And. . . the current administration is incompetent and could not successfully invade Ms. Clark's fourth grade classroom.

[strateguy632]

to ol, i agree with you

[PeanutbutterAnd]

Yes, and Mexico. For years, libtards have said the USA needs illegal workers to pick the crops. Bullshit. Why not just import the crops? Could it be that importing crops wouldn't be as good as importing illegal voters?

[strateguy632]

good points.

[msc545]

About 90% of the farmland in the west where I live is owned by large agricultural corporations, which in turn are owned by conservatives - who are the people who have said the USA needs illegal workers to pick the crops, NOT liberals, moron.

[lightbulb27]

We need immigrants to pick those crops. I used to pick crops... americans won't do it, too much work. labor work... SA is great at. It just needs to be legal and tracked, otherwise they are at risk of severe abuse and enslavement. there is a role for govt... to balance power between weak and strong.
I only know republican farmers in my areas. they work hard for their living... and it is not easy, to do well.
you lost me... we do import crops, a lot of them.

[msc545]

Exactly!

[Avicenna]

No, we should not invade Venezuela unless the government commits genocide, which can be stopped with military intervention. I would lift any sanctions still in place on Venezuela. Sure, the government there is terrible, but it's not close to the world's biggest problem.

[strateguy632]

to av, very well presented

[Avicenna]

@strateguy632: Thank you!

[strateguy632]

as if venezuala allows exit? v. prevents them leaving. and v. is not even a neighbour with shared border so a gap between the reasons and the suggestion.

the responsibility is on their government who controls the area and people, to fix whatever suffering and problems but outsiders can't force our will on them.

biden eased sanctions on them in 2022, that did not make a difference so need harsher sanctions but not "any" nor war.

[DarkLegacy]

Of course not, it is mostly the USA fault like most world problems. They need to keep their noses out of other peoples businesses. The amount of wars they have fought since the WW2 is nobodies business. None of them just and they lost them all. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.

The whole world has had enough of American interference.

[strateguy632]

to dar, wow the victors wrote history so you forgot "south vietnam" ever existed and asked for help...

[OddBeMe]

We don’t need troops on the ground, for godsake. Another trillion dollars to defense contractors.

But better aid would help. Also at the border are Haitians, because their island is still fcked. We fixed New Orleans. Why couldn’t we fix Haiti?

[Avicenna]

Seriously? You want to "fix" Haiti with US taxpayer money when we have huge problems in the US?

[OddBeMe]

@Avicenna sure. If we’re not doing it here, let’s do it there. We could do both really easily. But we have corporate welfare to pay for….

[Avicenna]

And you think you know something about economics? LMAO.
But it's your heroes in the Democratic Party that push corporate welfare of all kinds these days.

We shouldn't be spending money in Haiti, we should be spending it in the US.

[OddBeMe]

@Avicenna I love you fcks that bitch about immigration AND foreign aid to the countries those immigrants are running from.

[Avicenna]

We aren't responsible for their dysfunctional societies- their elites and their government are. You can donate money to charities if you want. Plus foreign aid is full of corruption and graft and rarely helps ordinary people.

What you're yelping for is more corporate welfare, whether you realize it or not. And mass immigration is the biggest form of corporate welfare out there. We do not need mass immigration- there is no economic case for it. There's something very wrong with people like you who don't care about fellow citizens in need but want to spend huge sums of money on other countries.

[OddBeMe]

@Avicenna “no economic case for immigration”…just shows how fckin dumb you are. www.economist.com/.../a-shortfall-in-immigration-has-become-an-economic-problem-for-america
www.bushcenter.org/.../

[Avicenna]

No, you're the idiot. The Economist is a known shill for mass immigration. Abd don't be dishonest- I said there is no economic case for mass immigration. It makes no sense to bring in people with no capital, no-to-few skills, whose productivity is not high and lavish welfare spending on them (note the pressure this also puts on Social Security). We have enough people- over 330 million. What we need more of is investment and better government policies as well as manufacturing and exports.

Frankly, you don't know enough about economics to have a knowledgeable discussion on this or any other economic topic. But you've exposed the fact that your political views are not coherent and that despite your talk about corporate welfare, you really do support policies that benefit the wealthiest and harm the most vulnerable.

[lightbulb27]

@OddBeMe We can use some immigrants that have skills to work, it's hard to find labor in some cases and its expensive. immigrants could... do roofing... which has becom every expensive, clean streets, establish/sell food, plant trees, grow food, landscaping, construction... of housing.
But they have to be documented... address known diseases and play all the games the rest of us play to work... insurance, taxes, etc.. otherwise, we are shooting ourselves in the foot.

You're gonna see a mess soon... as apparently we don't know who these people are... and were housing them in operating schools! Soon, they will be on the streets, we don't know who nor where... and they keep coming... the existing immigrants will be displaced. It's gonna be tough to manage.

www.msn.com/.../ar-AA1b7SuG

[OddBeMe]

@lightbulb27 How would you know which immigrant has skills? And can they bring a plus one? What were Melania’s skills?

[OddBeMe]

@Avicenna and yet there is…the economist and bush w are famously conservative. Not newsmax crazy as you are.

We are a consumerist economy. Bringing in more consumers does nothing but good. Especially ones that can’t get welfare…

[lightbulb27]

Melania is "hotlooking" and can model, bus tables, translate languages... solve world peace?
skills have to be assessed by someone. In my city, there was once migrants hanging out on corners waiting for morning pickup to be taken to labor jobs for the day. I don't see that anymore.
They can all do something... it just isn't "efficient". I'm sure you could make a long list of jobs they could do to improve the environment... if... if... we know who they were and they weren't criminals... e. g. mentally sick. This is the problem... and will they pay taxes, etc.. needs to be legal. so now we got a bigger mess... coming to a TV screen near you soon.

[Avicenna]

Odd, you're kidding yourself if you believe (and you can't be that naive) to think that the illegals don't bring massive costs. And those costs outweigh any benefit going to the CEOs you claim to despise (ordinary people are hurt significantly by them).

As for the Bushes being "conservative", don't make me laugh. We have their record in office, especially 43's, and they sure showed themselves to be big-government Democrats masquerading as "conservative". Maybe you ought to look a bit beyond labels and think critically (I know, hard for you Theater majors).

If you want to spur aggregate demand, Odd, how about encouraging exports instead?

The underlying problem is that Odd thinks whites are lazy welfare bums (he doesn't dare say what he thinks about anyone other than whites) who should be tossed out on the streets. The illegals are today's version of slave labor, and that's what Odd wants.

[Avicenna]

@lightbulb27- where I live the illegals are being housed in tents in empty fields in remote areas. And the local authorities have, surprise, surprise, not announced it or drawn any attention to it.

Odd, one other thing- the illegal invaders aren't supposed to work in the US, yet we know they do. What makes you think that people sympathetic to them aren't giving them welfare?

[Avicenna]

And, lookee here, Odd:

www.foxnews.com/.../amid-title-42s-expiration-broke-blue-state-considering-unemployment-illegal-immigrants

[NamerOfStars]

Look how well that turned out in Afghanistan. And Iraq. And Iran. And Grenada. And Chile. And...

[strateguy632]

to na, I LOVED YOUR REPLY

[exitseven]

mind our own business. secure the border to keep them out and let them overthrow their own government if they want to get rid of communism.

[ObscuredBeyond]

We need to stay home, and clean house on our own peverted, pedophlic government. Impeach 99% of it, and civil war if all else fails! Let Venezuela solve its own problems for now.

[msc545]

Sure, let's become even MORE unpopular as we kill people to finance the military-industrial complex and the psychopaths that own it.

[Anonymous]

Have you read any history of what we did to those countries?

[lightbulb27]

no. who is we? irrelevant to me. a large number of the country is risking their lives to go to a better place. The govt wiped them out and they can't even buy shoes. This is all fixable, one would think. shouldn't someone take initiatve?

If there was a family that kept breaking into your house because they were standing cold on the street in bare feet, wouldn't you take action, one way or the other to help them?

[richardcory]

Invading very rarely makes things better.

[msc545]

It makes things a lot better for WAR contractors - there is nothing defensive about these companies. They build expensive shit to kill people. The term "defense contractor" is doublespeak right out of the novel 1984.

[888theGreat]

Trump has united them

[Jamie05rhs]

No. Absolutely not.