
What do you think of this Talleyrand quote?


I am not so convinced by it. At least not always true and not always false is as far as I will go.
For evidence I offer Rhineland. The Napoleonic code continued having influence till the beginning of the 20th century and a guillotine whose blade was forged in 179x (where x=some number) was used in 1910 in Cologne. My point is there had to be a lot of cultural adoption for that to long outlast the Napoleonic occupation. So I would judge Talleyrand's comment false in respect to Rhineland at first glance.
Inherent in Talleyrand's quote seems to be the concept of liberty at the individual level and nationality - with a national consciousness in neighboring nations that could be offended by open force. I question the degree of nationality/national consciousness there was.
In 1803-1806 most German states were all too happy to tear down the Holy Roman Empire. We need to recognize states were more like modern corporations than nations and not all states were nations yet. It was more Coca Cola versus Pepsi. It didn't seem to occur to german people to object to being reassigned from Coca Cola to Pepsi whilst Napoleon was redrawing maps. It most likely made little difference to daily life.
A German national consciousness was lacking and I would say the French Revolution and Napoleon created Germany and a German national consciousness. It doesn't seem to have been there to a great degree in 1803 to 1806 but certainly was by the Frankfurt parliament of 1848.
French armies lived off the land so the associated raping pillaging and looting would be more likely to cause hate amongst common people.
The elite in most countries were scared of giving liberties to common people and perhaps the quote is more to do with the elites hating liberty for the commoners.
I’m not sure you are reading Talleyrand as he intended you to. He isn’t talking about a nation avoiding contest. He speaks of the success of a system.
Nobody likes to be defeated.
It was summarized well in this moment in Star Trek. Near the end of the episode "The Menagerie", the Talosian Keeper realizes that humans would not be a good slave race to rebuilt their world...
"KEEPER: We had not believed this possible. The customs and history of your race show a unique hatred of captivity. Even when it's pleasant and benevolent, you prefer death. This makes you too violent and dangerous a species for our needs."
Being conquered is the same thing...
This is why these scenes in "The Godfather: Part II" are important.
Don Ciccio understood human nature...
Forcing your government on colonized nations may ruin the chance of those nations to discover the value of that liberty on their own, and may lead to their resentment of it.
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True. But imposing liberty by force an oxymoron. Imposing something is the antithesis of liberty and is almost always a form of colonialism. Democracy, liberty, justice and human rights are almost always the false justifications for conquest.
It’s human nature to rebel against every authority. So I agree with him.
Iraq. Vietnam. A-Stan. Post Civil War South. Seems like.
He was just predicting American foreign policy.
Sounds like he's describing the US 😂
Talleyrand was born in 1754. The US didn’t even exist.
@Agagagagaga Exactly. This only shows that nothings changed
@KostasKouvalis Or that you have some worried irrational hatred of the US 🤷♂️
Yeah that’s like the US!
Because the Soviets never invaded anyone for “liberty.” 🤦♂️
Sounds like colonialism, and he’s not wrong
I think history proves this true.
It makes sense to me.
Sounds right to me.
Well certainly evidenced by the Middle East.
Truth
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