Is modern day feminism make life worse for us women?

[A_Bell]

Is modern feminism anti-feminine?

Not long ago, I believed strongly that having a career and being "strong", independent and self-reliant was what was best for me and other young women going forward. I was taught that sexual "liberation" (read promiscuous behavior) was what made our lives better and that being a mom was equivalent to chattle slavery.

I was also encouraged to focus entirely on career and avoiding starting a family through strong hormonal birth control. Not only do these drugs stop pregnancy, they change your psychology and behavior, altering the way you form attachments in sexual relationships.

Eventually, through some life changing events, an epiphany, dumb luck and getting a case of baby fever, I decided to come off hormonal birth control, which further reduced my willingness to partake in riskier casual relationships.

Either by grace or coincidence, I happened to meet my future husband during this window of opportunity and instantly became smitten with him. After a few weeks, we were into a heavy physical relationship and unburdened by hormonal birth control, I developed an intense bond that I had never experienced before.

All I could think about was our future and the prospect of children. After a few months, he proposed and we married after a short engagement.

I was actually about a month pregnant at our wedding, although I didn't know it yet. Since, we've had a second daughter and we are expecting are first son in April.

As I look back, I can't believe I ever wanted anything else than to have a family to raise and nuture. Even though I have an advanced degree, the joy I experienced breast feeding my daughters or feeling my son kick through my abdomen makes all that seem silly by comparison. The devotion to my kids and husband bring me more joy than sitting in any bland office making someone else's dreams come true.

Has modern feminism devalued feminine roles, putting value only in (typically male) career advancement and promiscuity?

[Lliam]

I don't see anything wrong with women having equal opportunity and more choices to pursue what they want. They are capable of providing more to society than making babies and taking care of man-babies.

As you illustrated, women can still follow the "traditional" path if they choose to, even after experiencing the unbridled joy and freedom of youth.

I would also ask it your advanced degree hurt you. If not for feminism, you wouldn't have had that educational opportunity. So now, if something should happen to your husband (I pray that it doesn't), you will have the ability to support yourself and your children.

I would argue that feminism, and even "modern feminism" is not forcing women to do anything. Individual women make their own choices.

I find the arguments against feminism, especially by certain types of guys, to be laughable. The problems they imagine are all in their minds and are rooted in pure selfishness. They aren't interested in what's best for women. If they want a traditional wife, all they need to do is man up and go find one the way your husband did. But a lot of those guys would have rejected you for being "used goods".

In my own case, I was never interested in being saddled with children and I didn't start thinking about getting married and settling down until I was in my early 30s. But I thank God for the wonderful girlfriends I had from the time I was 16. I owe them all, not only for the joy of learning about sexuality, general happiness and fulfillment, but for life lessons that helped me to mature.

They were all feminist in the sense of being free thinkers, making their own decisions, having the ability to support themselves, and enjoying sex. But they also had traditional values, hope and dreams. They were loyal, monogamous, and wanted to get married, have babies, and live "happily ever after". They eventually did.

I met my future wife in 1994 when I was 40. She was 37. She had lived a full life before we met, become a top-end cosmetologist, worked on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills and was a regional exec for Paul Mitchell; was also a professional photographer and did high-end photo shoots in Hollywood; worked for an airline for a while and traveled the world.
She ran her own independent cosmetology and photography businesses.

She moved from Ohio to California in her early 20s and supported herself all her life. She is a very independent woman but she is also very feminine and has many traditional attitudes and values. And, yes, she had relationships along the way.

We've been happily married now for almost 27 years, have had a LOT of fun and built a wonderful life together. Her income and savings, combined with my own, have allowed us to live the lifestyle we have. She still works part time because she enjoys it.

What I'm saying is, everyone is different. There is no "one size fits all". There is no, single, correct path. People should not be forced into boxes that don't suit them.

[A_Bell]

Mary Curie was a Noble Prize winning physicist and chemist well before the days of what we would consider the days of women's liberation. Queen Elizabeth I was one of the most effective and powerful monarchs in English history.

Harriet Beacher Stowe, Dolly Madison, Mary Shelly, and Jeane d'Arc all left their marks on history. I think people make the mistake that no one had choices or had fewer.

Men working the fields as serfs or foot soldiers in war didn't exactly relax in an office and write poetry. One cannot cherry-pick Napolean and say it wasn't fair not every woman had the opportunities of Bonaparte.

Times were different. There is no connection to how people are treated today to how they suffered and toiled historically. Everyone has opportunities now, but it seems feminism in the current wave bashes anything not steeped in corporate selling out or promiscuity.

[Lliam]

You can't be serious with those examples. Do you think that's proof that women had equal opportunity?

[RavVid]

Guys and girls no longer much to offer each other other than protected sex. I am glad you have escaped the trap that was set for you. Other women have said similar as you and it is a big topic.

There is an analogy in 7 Habits of Effective People. It likens life to climbing a ladder but points out many people don't think much about which wall they prop the ladder against. It might be against the Corporate wall but the men and women climbing that wall might find on nearing the top it hasn't made them fulfilled and happy.

In retrospect they might have found the Family wall better suited to them. The punchline is choose the wall you put your ladder against wisely. That is even a bigger choice than your college degree to make at about 18 yo.

To a very large degree feminism has been about professional women advocating what is good for them like becoming college professors but not so good for women who want a family. It has also been a good meme for corporates. Roughly double the number of potential employees and a significant increase in markets with double income household and more single households who need the same household goods as the couple households.

Recently a member of my family told me on clocking 30, her ambition was now to become a housewife (after years on entrepreneurial activities). "Men like working more than women do" she said "So it is more of a guy thing".

One interesting thing is that oral contraception has a significant impact on the type of man a woman chooses as their partner. It is quite plausible that a woman goes off oral and wakes up thinking why is HE in my bed. It was very interesting going off oral was a key point in your journey and I would encourage you to write more around that.

I think you are right that feminism has devalued feminine roles or more particularly feminine virtues that men value. I am not so sure men are wanting to buy anymore; at least I'm not.

Thanks for the question.

[RavVid]

Thanks for an MHO. It is really quite an important topic so I hope discussion can continue.

[MzAsh]

Congrats on the life you've built for yourself. It seems you've found joy and fulfillment and that's really what it's all about.



Feminism, at least from my perspective, is all about choice and the freedom to choose your path in life, regardless of societal expectations or norms. Its built around the idea that women should have the autonomy to make decisions about their careers, bodies, and lives without being constrained by gender roles or stereotypes. Feminism is not about devaluing feminine roles or elevating career advancement and promiscuity. Its simply that women have the freedom to pursue what they believe is best for them, whether that's a career, motherhood, or a blend of both.


Your story reflects the very core of what many feminists strive for.

[A_Bell]

Thanks for your input.

[handsomelad70]

Feminists (at least should) strive for choice, but the late Kwame Ture (birth name:Stokely Carmichael), the handsome, charismatic 1960's black radical, dated the daughters of some white feminsits and saw when he visited his girlfriends' homes that these "feminists" mistreated and underpaid their inevitably black maids, then tried to set these servants against men in particular and black men in general. Since then, white feminists have evinced plenty of anti-Black tendencies. For instance, save Gloria Steinem, once the late, great Jim Brown's girlfriend (and actually gorgeous, unlike most gruesome feminists-she'd pretended to be a Playboy Bunny to expose the seamier side of Hef's boys-only fiefdom), how many have black boyiriends or husbands?(Or girlfriends, if gay?)

[Sirenboobzilla]

I hope this response gets MHO. I couldn't have said it any better myself.

[A_Bell]

@Sirenboobzilla I will consider your lobbying effort.:)

[RavVid]

Feminism doesn't seem to be quite as OK with some women's choices as others.

Tradcon wives get vilified quite a lot and called Pick Me's. Pursuing an only fans career, that pays a burger a shift, is glamorized and honored more. All choices might be valid but some choices are clearly more valid than others.

The choice and freedom mantra fed to women is highly misleading because the freedom of choice happens once and doesn't get to be exercised over and over again. Babies are an obvious example but it is more than that and for men as much as women.

[MzAsh]

You have to understand that feminism isn’t one voice. There may be a few loud eggs who are calling trad cons pick me, but then there are others who believe a woman’s choices are best when she’s choosing them out of her own will and desires, but are simply calling out the ones who are overtly trying to put women back on a submissive place in society. The point is that women’s choices, whether they genuinely want to be wives and moms or OF creators are all valid paths in life and are to be respected as such.

[IslaTheWitch]

I wouldn't put everything on feminism lol

hormonal birth control isn't something that should push you into risky relationships or promiscuous behavior. It's just a tool to feel safe when you enjoy yourself. Who you choose to enjoy yourself with is your decision, not the pills you take.

You made decisions in your life. Some you regret. But in the end, you are happy. So what is a problem? Why don't you take responsibility for your decisions and teach your kids the same? Putting it on some ideology won't solve any problem or let you learn anything from your past.

[blueonblack22]

You hit the nail right on the head. 100%.

The thing is you see lots of angry men on here (justifiably) complaining about modern feminism. Right or wrong that’s actually an exercise in futility. Because society really doesn’t care what men think unless there is something in it for women. Men are expendable unless we can offer something of value to a woman.

Instead men (and intelligent women like you) need to ask modern women one simple question: are you truly happy with modern feminism? That’s the magic question. Are you happy?

Because modern feminism is literally trying to defy the biological purpose for women to exist. They deep down have an maternal instincts. If they didn’t they humanity would go extinct.

Anyway I predict more and more women are going to be depressed the more they embrace modern feminism. Many men are very depressed (bachelorhood rates are at record rates right now). But no one really cares about us. The focus needs to stay on what this is doing to women.

[A_Bell]

I feel for men and respect their tradition roles as basically the protector of the family. There are a number of poorly raised ones who are abusive, and that needs to be addressed, but for the most part the role of a well adjusted men is an important part of society.

[blueonblack22]

Well society is doing a rather horrible job right now on how it raised men. That’s not to let men off the hook. But we are VERY confused nowadays. Lots of mixed messages.

[GuyAnswersGirls123]

A problem from my perspective in Japan is that feminism as it manifests in the West along with anti-feminism is so extreme and adversarial with "patriarchy" this and "male privilege" that and "toxic masculinity" this and that. Same with politics, especially in the US, with "cuckservative" this and "libtard" that.

We have a gentler and more practical way here in Japan. It's not a shining beacon of gender equality but it isn't so divisive here and it is gently progressive. Japanese men have a favorable view of women and Japanese women have a favorable view of men. It's cooperative.

Also the traditional husband and traditional wife in Japan both worked. That was the case with my grandparents (kimono business) and my wife's grandparents (swordsmith for the grandfather and teacher for the grandmother) and the grandparents of every other Japanese person I've known. This idea that the traditional woman is an uneducated full-time housewife while the husband is the only educated and the sole provider is alien to our culture, and I think that helps as well.

It's cooperative here while I think it's too adversarial in the West. It often ends up becoming about men vs. women.

[Miristheiss]

Well, it has made it so that many women hate their natural biological function of being moms, having families, being nurturing etc. All women think their sole purpose is going to work and having jobs. To be frank, outside daycare, nursing, doctors, education most of the work that drives society is still done by men. Building all the houses and buildings, installing electrical systems and grids, and water systems and water treatment plants, growing food, harvesting energy, repairing everything. Men still do that so women aren't really needed. They've just been told they'll be happier and more fulfilled if they are out grinding and stressing and exhausting themselves 40/50 hours a week. They reject their true feminine gift and are told to act more like men.

Women are super sexually promiscuous now and 1/4 of girls are now on line prostitutes and IG thirst trap posters.

Women are a lot worse than our mom's and grandma's were. Women of the last 40 years are pretty slutty, entitled, heavy drinkers, career only women.

Are they happy? Is life worse or better for them? I don't know.

[A_Bell]

Most of my female friends who are single are miserable. I was too.

Some of my married friends have problems, but they aren't helpless depression and lack of purpose I see in my single friends.

I know first hand, as I used to feel adrift and miserable too trying to be a corporate drone.

[HelpfulWoman]

not really. the whole point of feminism is that it should be a CHOICE for each PERSON to assume what roles they want to. Being a parent/stay at home person is FINE if it's your CHOICE, over the outdated notion that "that" was what was best for women. Of course, there's feminazis and the extremists who shout about different notions that aren't actually feminist and just an excuse to hate others. But they're actually a minority, even if they're loud/more seen in media.
I'm glad you found the roles that work for you and your family. :D

[laly520]

agree

[sage2021]

I'm sure you have heard people ask at what age did you know what you wanted to be when you grew up?

I just remember at a very young age I wanted to be a Mom. I wanted four children, two boys and two girls, and a wonderful husband that was a good dad, and good looking.

Well, I did manage to be a mom, but only to one son. But I was and still the best mother a child could have hoped to have.

Everyone that knew me back when I was raising him, and that still knows me now tell I was (am) an excellent mother. He always came before anything or anyone while growing up.

[Kaneki05]

No. The fact you could choose and learnt which one you preferred is proof that feminism is working. Back in the day you wouldn't of had the choice to do one or the other you would just be mostly forced into one.
And you may of liked it. But what for those who didn't?
So today now you get to choose, and some even do both somehow. Having a strong career and kids getting the best of both worlds.

To call having more options a bad thing is just confusing but fundamentally that's a great thing.

Also just a small note ever find it interesting that most people who insult feminism and go against it are men? There's a obvious reason for that one and it's not because feminism is bad for women.

[A_Bell]

So you don't think there is any pressure on us women to look down on homemaking by feminist leaders?

You don't find a bias toward traditional male roles like careers and crude behaviors and against nurturing and less crude behaviors?

[Kaneki05]

Not really, but let's say there is. Is that pressure worse than no choice? Because I would think not. You can have people say what they want, judge how they want but the reality of the situation is you got to choose and now your happy thus success came.

Plus what someone is saying outside of your circle really don't matter, let's say there is some speaker who looks down on a more traditional life what are they going to do? Are they going to come into your life personally and force your relationship to be not allowed? I don't think so, so how does that then effect you?

Now what if this was a person you met, who told you that you are wrong for living that. Well you just ignore them. Like anybody else. There are people who say video games are toxic or whatever but do I sit there and listen to them? Nah because the reality is I don't have to listen to them.

So the issue is one very easily solved if that's a thing, and is much better than the past in which you would just be forced rather than just an opinion of judgement.

[A_Bell]

Thanks for your input. :)

[Summeroflove]

I don’t know what women are worse? Overly traditional women who hate men and want a one sided relationship. Where she stays home and makes the husband work remodeling hee house. To where he can’t even rest. She nags. Complains men are bitches. Much different then homemakers back in the day who worked as hard as their man did (if not harder) in different roles.



Or feminists who hate men. If a woman hates men. Just forget it. Don’t date. Stop being bitter.



I like women who are themselves. Whether they choose to work or stay home. A good way nkt to get preggers is NOT to have sex until marriage.

[ShadezMcgee]

I would say it doesn't. The issue is that the ones who are pushing it or have the loudest voices are the militant ones that give any tamed or chill feminists a bad name. They portray men as evil, view anything that revolves women wanting a family or being a housewife as below them and slavery to the patriarchy and essentially if they don't adhere to that, they get slandered and tarred and feathered.

Some of these women get nasty when they decide to attack those that don't align with their ideals of feminism. I have seem it here on GaG and in person. These women are just some of the most miserable beings on the planet, and people wonder why feminism gets shit on by a lot of men? There you go.

[lucas262]

Most women want families, women got lied to similar to how men got lied to. Feminism told women being a woman wasn't enough they had to be men too.

That feminine strength wasn't enough that they could be masculine.

I dont particularly care if she has a job, but I'm marrying a wife not a provider that's my role, I don't want to be unneeded or unwanted, I don't want her to try to he the husband because she makes money she still plays the woman and I still play the man in the relationship.

[sheikalana]

I believe so! Some of us actually want to be housewives, moms and be in charge of the house and do the house chores. But feminism kind of made it impossible. I decided to keep my job because as a woman I feel bad for putting that much pressure on my Husband to have to earn an X amount of money. Luckily I have a salary above average and my job doesn't require me to go to work every day and allows me to have a good balance between work and being a housewife which I genuinly love.

[Anonymous]

Feminism looks at motherhood as servitude and marriage as bondage. Neither of which are conducive to a happy relationship or a healthy family. I know, I know, feminists hate children and don’t care about the future 🙄 and they will climb the highest mountain and scream from its summit that you’ve just GOT to be able to kill babies in the womb—because motherhood is servitude. The fun and games are over. No more screwing around—you’re actually responsible for someone else now.

Nah let’s just have abortions! I want to have fun!

🙄

[NathanDavis]

I don't see any of the women in my life bothered by this...

they just are what they are... without worrying about others' lives

[PeachyPie93]

I think this is what is being taught and pushed to women by other women. I never went that route because I always wanted a family and my mom taught me to love and respect myself and my body.

[LazerBean]

It has not made my life worse. It has not impacted me at all. Women can only be impacted by feminism if they choose to be impacted by it.

[Rangers]

Can't say they necessarily make it worse now that feminists have been pushed so far into a minority that it's considered a joke by most people.

I will say, it certainly doesn't help the strained relationship men are experiencing with women when those feminist types are yelling so loudly and trying to speak for all women

[laly520]

just like how @helpfulwoman explained

people often get it mixed, feminism isn't about what media tend to exaggerate

[Grond21]

Yes, it absolutely has. Feminism is a cancer, eating at the root of families to their own destruction, leaving millions of broken and bitter women in its wake. Women who were convinced to sacrifice their own happiness on the alter of progress.

[A_Bell]

Thanks for your input.

[Grond21]

You are welcome

[NewgodOmega]

Definitely not women are choosing freedom and Independence there is absolutely no problem in that, a women who dont Want a man need a man should not even think about a man, and that's absolutely ok

[Z1pTD]

I think so because it causes guys assume girls want to do their own thing and aren't serious about relationships 🤷‍♂️

[Cazaputas]

You are simply angry because you lost the privileges that women had, stop crying and work like a man does. Feminism didn't impact my life at all, I'm disgusted by promiscuous women, so I don't interact with them.