Do you understand that not seeing something is not evidence that it didn't happen?

[goaded]

Dad: "Your sister says she saw Mummy kissing Santa Claus, did you see that too?"

Son: "No, I was upstairs."

Dad: "Oh good, that proves it didn't happen."

Republicans don't seem to understand it.

First we had videos of people "only" illegally demonstrating in the Capitol "proving" the serious crimes we all saw happen in real time never happened.

Now there's a whole "report" pretending that witnesses saying they didn't witness something means it didn't happen.

Guess what? You didn't witness conversations in the White House either. It must be like a monastery of a silent order in there!

Yes, it's obvious

No

I don't understand what a yes/no question is

Don't know, see results (why don't you know?)

Updates

+1 y

Apparently it wasn't clear that I was discussing things for which there is evidence.

[WhiteSteve]

No concept of object permanence, some of these folks😂

I’m honestly just getting fatigued spinning my wheels battling with people who never fully developed reasoning skills as children🤦‍♂️ Impossibly frustrating to argue with because they have no hard and fast rules to their logic, it’s just a constant moving of goalposts or just outright hypocrisy. Really looking forward to a hopefully eventual end to this period of history, lmfao

[goaded]

Well, it could go one of two ways, I hope for the best.

[exitseven]

yes, since the FBI did not investigate any of the thousand+ signed affidavits of voter fraud there was really no fraud and Trump is just lying about it.

[Sasahara]

No, just because leftists claim there was no voter fraud and that Trump is lying does not mean there was no voter fraud and that Trump lied.

[goaded]

@Sasahara Republicans like Raffensperger say there was no voter fraud. "If we lose there was fraud, if we win there wasn't" is bullshit. Trump was claiming the 2016 election would be rigged, until he won it.

[Sasahara]

Just bevause Raffenberger says there was no voter fraud does not mean there was no. Just because we didn’t see it does not mean it didn’t happen. Ignoring this possibility is as good as votung no on your poll in this question.

[exitseven]

@goaded Hellery kept screaming about Russian interference.

[goaded]

That's because there was Russian interference.

[goaded]

@Sasahara Bullshit. Raffensperger, a Republican, had an incentive to claim voter fraud. The fact that he said there wasn't is proof that there wasn't. You're the one implying it's only "leftists" claiming no significant voter fraud, and Trump and his liars have had three years to come up with any evidence at all. Of course there was no significant voter fraud and Trump lied, it's what he does.

*I say significant, because there are always a few people voting for dead people or trying to vote twice. Recently, it's mostly if not exclusively Republicans because they'd been told that's what the Democrats would be doing.

[Sasahara]

I am only implying that we should be open to the idea, and not being open to that idea is as good as voting no on your poll.
Do you understand that not seeing something is not evidence that it didn't happen? Just because we didn’t see the voter fraud does not mean it didn’t happen.

[Sasahara]

Not my fault you are as good as voting no at your own poll Goaded.

[goaded]

@Sasahara See update.

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO😎

[purplepoppy]

You're missing the point. They don't have to convince you or me, they only have to reaffirm their bases beliefs. You keep people onside by telling them what they want to hear, not the truth.

[goaded]

Oh, I see the point of the propaganda, but somebody has to point it out to people before it brings them into the cult.

I recently accidentally found out a young man my daughter went to school with and has the nicest mother is now a racist, misogynistic asshole. It looks like he's gone through all the steps in a video called "The Alt-Right Playbook: How to Radicalize a Normie", which the alt-right managed to convince YouTube to make 18+, but everyone can watch it archive.org/.../the-alt-right-playbook-how-to-radicalize-a-normie

Unfortunately, the only thing that they say could make a serious difference is the social media platforms accepting that they're a pipeline to terrorism, like ISIS (but since right wing politicians are liable to be part of that pipeline, it's unlikely to happen).

[SnackTime]

I’ve never understood why this is such a big deal. Is it all about getting Trump?

[goaded]

Why what's such a big deal? Logic?

If you can't critically evaluate what you're told, you're wide open to believing propaganda.

[SnackTime]

What propaganda are you talking about?

[goaded]

Take your pick.

Since it's a subject dear to your heart: "The border is completely open" is a good example. Somehow it's "completely open" AND there have been huge numbers caught and deported. It can't be both.

In the example of the recent report, they're saying that the testimony about what was said between just three people in a room is undermined by a fourth person not having heard what was said.

I didn't hear it either, but that has no impact on the testimony. The testimony is bolstered by the other two not denying what was said in public, let alone under oath (when asked under oath, one "didn't recall" even communicating with one of the others all day, despite it being Jan 6 and having a 12 minute phone call).

[SnackTime]

How has any of this affected your life? I'm an American and it's a nothing burger for us. No one in America talks about this. But on this site it haunts the non-Americans. That really amazes me. It amazes me how you Germans aren't talking about the summer of 500 riots. Some were insurrections that made Jan 6 look like child's play. People being beaten to death by Soros thugs. Businesses being burnt to the ground. People getting acid thrown in their face, and being blinded for life.

January 6th, should have had a beer garden, brats and balloons. It was a joke. It was a joke to get Trump. I totally get how American liberals can't compete, but how does that bother a German? I don't get it.

[goaded]

It bothers the whole world that your country is even considering re-electing Trump. We can see the parallels to 1930's Germany and Italy where the fascists tricked their way into minority rule and did away with elections. Today, Putin holds "elections", but his "opponents" are either locked up, dead, or singing his praises.

Hitler was a joke the first time he tried to take over the government by force.

Anybody talking about "Soros thugs" is obviously not serious or impartial. Next, you'll be saying there was a "Russia hoax". Do you agree that anyone saying "Russia hoax" isn't worth listening to? ↗

[SnackTime]

Who drove the thugs around the country on busses? Face it, something happened to you, and you're blaming America. Maybe you should look at the man in the mirror and face your demons.

No wars under Trump. But you would NEVER say anything bad about dementia man.

[goaded]

No-one. That's propaganda.

Unless you mean "Frank Scavo, a Donald Trump supporter from Pennsylvania who chartered four buses to D. C. on the day that the U. S. Capitol was attacked" (pleaded guilty), or "State Sen. Doug Mastriano [whose] campaign spent thousands of dollars on charter buses ahead of [Jan 6]... his committee paid $3,354 to Wolf’s Bus Lines in three installments for “bus reservations” about six days before Trump’s “Save America” rally.", or "People 4 Trump political organization, founded by Newtown Athletic Club owner Jim Worthington, organized several charter buses of Trump supporters from the Bucks County area in the weeks leading up to the event, according to the group's website and social media posts from the organization."

www.huffpost.com/.../trump-capitol-attack-frank-scavo_n_6138bf3fe4b05f53edaf6be8
whyy.org/.../
patch.com/.../nac-owner-organized-3-buses-capitol-demonstrations

That took a few minutes to find. Facts. They come out.

No NEW wars under Trump, but he green-lit an invasion by Turkey of a US allies' territory, cancelled the nuclear agreement with Iran which now has 20 times the amount of nuclear stockpiles at much closer to weapons grade concentrations (60%) than was allowed under the agreement (3%), undercut the government of Afghanistan, and had an Iranian general assassinated. Plus the usual drone attacks.

So now we have a pissed off Iran with a clear path to atomic bombs. Go Trump!

[Sasahara]

@snacktime if you take the part about Republicans out of the question description, Goaded is not wrong. Not seeing something is not evidence its not happening. Just because leftists refuse to see bad things about dementia man as you called him, does not mean there are no bad things about dementia man.

[SnackTime]

@sasahara

The only actor I recognize in this convoluted story is Santa Claus.

And I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure Kamala Harris wrote this.

“we need to realize that in this very moment, we are in the moment. We have to conceptualize that this moment in time is not the future. The moment we are living in right now is not the past. So if we understand we are in the moment we will realize that we are in the moment.”

[goaded]

@Sasahara I guess you didn't watch his SOTU speech. Compare to Trump at CPAC. Got a couple of minutes? ↗

[goaded]

@snacktime Oh, look, more misinformation. I thought you claimed you were above that sort of thing. What she actually said:

"So I think it’s very important — as you have heard from so many incredible leaders — for us, at every moment in time, and certainly this one, to see the moment in time in which we exist and are present, and to be able to contextualize it, to understand where we exist in the history and in the moment as it relates not only to the past, but the future.

And I will say to everyone here that we are living, I do believe, in a moment in time where so many of our hard-won freedoms are under attack, and this is a moment for us to stand and fight."
www.whitehouse.gov/.../

"Video of Kamala Harris saying ‘today is today’ was altered"
apnews.com/.../fact-check-kamala-harris-video-altered-today-quote-234791603419

[SnackTime]

I never committed all that to memory. I was just trying to make a point. Actually, I’m lying. I was trying to spread misinformation. Russia told me to do it. And I still have no idea what you’re asking in this question.

[goaded]

You mean you typed that whole paragraph from memory? If so, it was reasonably close.

I told you, in my first response: If you can't critically evaluate what you're told, you're wide open to believing propaganda.

I never said Russia told you to do anything, the right relies on stochastic actions these days, convincing people that it's be funny to pass on misinformation, or own the libs, or send death threats to legislators or election workers, or shoot a bunch of brown people and live-stream it. They never *told* anyone to do that, they just lay the groundwork and wait for the one in a million.

[SnackTime]

Yes, I typed up for memory. I watched the video 10 times because I needed the laughter.
The problem with your question is, it’s all just a bunch of generalizations.
There’s a lot of that on this site. Why are all girls stupid? Why are all guys stupid? Why is it OK for girls to hate guys? Why is it OK for guys to hate girls?

Why do all liberals and death threats? Why do all liberals go to the homes of Supreme Court justices? Don’t they know it’s a federal crime? Why doesn’t Merrick Garland do something about it?

[goaded]

No, the question is about logic and very specific. The example is an illustration, and the example of people using it to their advantage were of genuine current events.

Do videos of people not being violent mean that the people being violent in other videos weren't violent? Does testimony of people who couldn't have heard something proof that that thing wasn't said?

The closest they came to anything reasonable was that the driver said he didn't see Trump try to take the wheel, but hopefully he'd have been concentrating on driving. More importantly, Hutchinson's testimony wasn't that Trump had grabbed for the wheel, it was that she was told Trump grabbed for the wheel. The report quite clearly lies about that.

[SnackTime]

She said he tried to grab the wheel with one hand, and with the other hand, he put it around the drivers clavicle. You might not notice someone reaching for the steering wheel, but you most likely would know there’s a hand around your throat. At the time this all came out, I assumed that the driver was an interviewed. But two years later, it turns out he was interviewed, but that information was suppressed from the public. Pelosi did not want us to hear the truth. They would rather have a witness who didn’t witness anything but heard it from someone who didn’t witness anything.

When I posted a question about this I use this REO Speedwagon theme song.

Heard it from a friend who
Heard it from a friend who
Heard it from another Trump's been messing around

The only people that witness anything were the people inside the car. That's why the January 6 hearings were just a bunch of bullshit

[goaded]

No, she said she was *told* that story. It's not proof that it happened, it's evidence that she was told that story.

Also, you're wrong about the details, read it again; she never said she was told Trump went for the driver's clavicle. Remember, she was told this story shortly after it had happened.

"Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engel. And Mr. — when Mr. Ornato had recounted this story to me, he had motioned towards his clavicles."

Ornato's testimony, when asked under oath, never denied passing on the story, he "failed to recall" even communicating with Engels that day, even after being reminded he had a 12 minute conversation with him. Trump's lawyer had previously told Hutchinson that those were the magic words to avoid perjury charges.

[msc545]

It's very difficult to generate believable denial without surrendering object constancy. Everytime you park you car, as soon as you walk away it disappears. You can tell because you can no longer see it when you walk away far enough.

[goaded]

I swear my car moves around the carpark by itself.

[msc545]

Well yes it does. If you aren't there to hold it down, what do you think is going to happen?

[Kelly6]

Atheist think that not seeming god means there is no god.

[goaded]

Which one? There are something like 2500 gods that have been worshipped in history. Theists don't believe in 2499 of them.

[Kelly6]

Correction
There is 1 god but humans made different stories because we are different culture and race

[Kelly6]

@goaded
By time, as cultures divided , Gods divided.

[molonski2]

I did not see anything , and I don't wish to discuss the political elements of it..

Three wise monkeys had it correct.

[goaded]

The three wise monkeys were probably robbed blind.

[molonski2]

Maybe..
But that's how we do it here , rather than " in your face " ..

[Sasahara]

Yes of course I understand that. I’m open for the possibility God is real.

[Sasahara]

But you should have picked a anti-SJW argument instead of anti-Republican. Like say that just because you personaly have not witnessed Blackrock attempting to force diversity in an inorganical way does not mean they they don’t.

[Sasahara]

Or you could have said just because leftists didn’t see FBI organize Jan 6th does not mean FBI didn’t do it. A great example that takes your argument the way you intended it to be taken.

And no I have no intention of saying anything negative about Republicans in this question.

[goaded]

Oh, FFS, did the FBI call for people to come to DC on the 6th?

[Sasahara]

Maybe, just because leftists say they didn’t see it does not mean it didn’t happen, and anyone voting yew on your poll is open for the possibility the FBI did it. Just the way you intended your argument to be taken.

[Sasahara]

Ment yes, not yew. Typo. Any leftists who turn down the poissibility of FBI doing are essentialy voting no on your poll. Just because they didn’t see it does not mean it didn’t happen.

[goaded]

Well, there is the complete and total lack of evidence over the last three years to go with as well as the fact that everybody claiming the FBI (or Antifa) did it have shown themselves to be liars in other areas.

Nobody would have been there if Trump hadn't called them. Why would the left protest against a win?

[Sasahara]

To blame it on Republicans. We have to be open to the idea. Just because we didn’t see it does not mean it didn’t happen.

[Sasahara]

Either you are ipen to the idea that FBI did it or you are essentialy voting no on your own poll here.

[goaded]

Oh, FFS. There has to have been some evidence that whatever it is did happen. Sorry for assuming people aren't all idiots. I'll do an update.

[Sasahara]

If we were all idiots we would all be leftists.

[Jamie05rhs]

Thank you. God is real.

[goaded]

LOL. There's never been a reliable witness. C:

[Jamie05rhs]

There have been plenty. You just choose to ignore them.

[goaded]

I never met one.

[Jamie05rhs]

You're too young.

[dustybiker2]

Politics. Like royal court jesters. Childishness.