Should the US stay out of the wars in the Middle East?

[OtterMan68]

Yes, and I'll explain why below

No, and I'll explain why below

[Goahead76]

I think the US CAUSES virtually all the wars in the middle east.

Think about it, the US terror wars, Iraq 1&2, then Afghanistan, then Syria, then Libya, then supplying all the weapons for Israel to kill 35k & climbing civilians. The destabilizing effect all these wars had pushed refugees into Europe which caused all kinds of friction in places like France, Paris burning last summer, culture clash etc..
The US provided all kinds of weaponry to the Saudis who in turn used it to kill about 450k people in Yemen. You never hear about that one, and when the US state dept spokesman was asked why did did it they shrugged.
The US overthrew the democratically elected government in Ukraine in 2014, then set up 12 CIA bases to wage covert war on Russia and push NATO onto the Russian doorstep, something they said they'd never do. Then lied relentlessly when they claimed Putin's actions were."unprovoked". Now Ukraine is wrecked and 440k dead.
So yeah it's hard for me to conclude anything other than the US spreads death and destruction and chaos everywhere it goes.

[strateguy632]

as if u. s. invaded kuwait. woke as usual trying to rewrite history. pathetic.

[strateguy632]

and first on the list "don't fight terror" who wants that?

[OtterMan68]

so all of those people on the street in Ukraine in 2014 were US crisis actors?

[Goahead76]

Woke? Oh I'm a long ways from that, but no Kuwait was not worth it, if we had let that slide it would've been no big deal, certainly not worth worth the cascade of destruction that followed for 30 years. Show me how I'm "rewriting" history though. And no the people on the street in Ukraine weren't actors, but the CIA instigated the entire thing. I mean go read Legacy of Ashes by Tim Weiner, it'll give you a good idea of how the CIA essentially runs its own parallel foreign policy and attacks other countries on a relentless basis.
By one count they interfered in over 80 foreign elections between 1946 and 2000, and that doesn't include military coups and invasions. I believe that number is somewhere around 88
countries they've tried to overthrow. So Ukraine was nothing new here at all.

[OtterMan68]

i've have not yet heard from one Ukrainian that they were duped by the CIA and inadvertantly removed a popular, ethical, and law-abiding President.
You're basically insinuating the Ukrainian peopel are too stupid to know the CIA fooled them into thinking their president was corrupt and went back on his promises to be more open to the west.
Also even if the US did put in a pro-western leader, that's not evidence Ukraine was going to be used by NATO to invade Russia; therefore, Russia had to invade first to protect itself!

[Goahead76]

Look this is no slap at the Ukrainian people, but Victoria Nuland was heard on a leaked phone call talking about how they'd hand picked the next guy! They didn't like that Yanukovych was too pro Russian so they overthrew a democratically elected president simple as that. Next they set up 12 CIA bases and proceeded to load Ukraine up with weapons. Oh and let's not forget the nukes we put in Poland and Romania.
What else though is Russia supposed to think? Imagine if they did this in Mexico, installed nukes, overthrow the government and the set up a massive FSB presence on our border. We would go apeshit!!

[OtterMan68]

what exactly did Nuland say?

[Goahead76]

Just basically who they were going to install, and lo and behold it happened exactly as she said.

[OtterMan68]

what EXACTLY did she say?

[hahahmm]

Yes & no. The US has done a lot of shady stuff in the last 60 years but don't think for one second that more people are dying because of "wars". It's just that when you send people in lab coats & lawyer outfits with clip boards they start writing down death numbers and claiming X number of people died. Before they showed up a similar number of people were getting quietly murdered by dictatorships too. Just like if the allies never won WWII, Germany wouldn't be bragging about how many people they killed. That all said... there will be consequences for all evil deeds done by nations... whether US or otherwise. Eventually.

[Goahead76]

@OtterMan68 You can look the transcript up or even listen to it. It's just her conversation with the ambassador to Ukraine. It's really pretty boring unless you understand the context of what they're discussing and how it all went down afterward. She talks about getting all the details ironed out with the UN so they'll accept this new government, he says something about what about the EU's objections and she replies "Fuck the EU".

[Goahead76]

@hahahmm Yeah I think you're right in many ways.

[exitseven]

The middle east has been at war for hundreds of years. There will never be peace there as long as they're are people still alive. If we can make money by selling them weapons that is one thing but pouring billions into a war that will never be settled is not something we should be doing.

[WhiteBoyChill]

Agree! 👍

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO😎

[jennifer_bloom]

I believe American philosophy is to dabble in the water without swimming in the ocean. They do not want to full invest in a war but they have to offer some latent potential of help or they will be seen as a poor ally of Israel and might get dismissed by Israel when they want Israel to help them.

[electromagnetic]

Yes, because it’s none of their business.
Truth be told, most of the war in the Middle East is partly caused by USA either interfering in others business or actually having direct involvement

[b_lova]

Yes and no. Let's be honest, the only reason the US cares about what happens in the Middle East is oil resources; the stabilization of "black gold". If we were to stop our dependency on oil we would leave them to sort their own crap out.

Think about it this way, Israel is our port and "excuse" to be in the Middle East. While us Christians may care about the people, our government doesn't.

It's the same with Ukraine. The government doesn't care about the people, it cares about the resources Ukraine holds, destabilizing Russia and keeping Russia as weak as possible.

If you look at history America became the "leader of the free world" in the world in order to control the world's resources and create a higher living standards for its people, which on turn elevates the living standards for the people at the pennicales of our leadership.

Hope that doesn't come across too cynical, but I'm tired of us dancing around these facts!

[BIZARRE_TRUTH]

We are allies with multiple counties in the middle east so we have an obligation to go to war with them.
Not only that but it would literally be suicide to not control the battlefield.
America is the World Police. Just like that movie except without the sarcasm.
There literally are no options other than to Elect Trump obviously as thats about to happen for the 3rd time
and then to control the battlefield to ensure continued peace. Trump almost had the arab nations sign a peace accord last time he was in the white house. Iran was tame. Russia was tame. And china was tame.

[BIZARRE_TRUTH]

countries*

[Anonymous]

Not completely, but mostly. I noticed something while stationed in Iraq.

One thing that is in the Qu'ran for those who can read it is a concept about conquering and spreading Islam over the world. Radical Islamists take that to mean they need to take over the whole world. It is a misunderstood piece of their texts, but the radicals do not understand this.

If they had it their way, they would complete Hitler's work on a much bigger scale. This would mean that, if a group ever managed to get the Middle East under one rule, they would seek to conquer other parts of the world. If they succeeded, they could eventually have a force strong enough to threaten the U. S. homeland.

I do not believe we need to be investing as much as we do over there, but we need to maintain a presence to ensure the Middle East is never united to that degree.

[msc545]

The US should stay out of wars in the Middle East because the only reason for these wars at the current time is to transfer money from the taxpayers to the treasury and from the treasury to the defense industry without making it look like the payoffs it actually is.

[SotiCoto]

Everyone should stay out of wars in the middle east because it always falls on Europe and the UK to shelter all the refugees... which along with terrible management by the Tories, has made Britain the utter sh! thole it is today.

[normalice]

It's too late for that. The first step in staying out of conflict is not giving a bunch of weapons to one side, and that had already been done.

[SeriouslyNotSerious]

Yes please. I love America, so please don't get involved with these wars.

[RavVid]

Not a US citizen.

What is staying out? No America boots on the ground? Absolutely. Not blowing the shit out of stuff? No way, the US should blow the shit out of the Houthi's for a start.

[strateguy632]

that depends, but now that iran attacked a British boat, iran wants America not to hit back but we should cause them heavy losses in generals troops and equipment.

[goebenbreslau]

nope. as a middle eastern guy, i don't want the united states to stay out of the middle east
because otherwise china and russia will get involved
i just want the united states to follow the right policy and not to fuel the current wars.

[In_Trance]

America could never quit. Do you know how bad us unemployment would be?

[Anonymous]

I agree with our current stance. Defend Israel, but do not support any offensive action against an aggressor (like Iran).

[Agape93]

Eh depends. I still prefer the notion of turning the entire region into glass

[Jerre]

No matter what, we will be drawn into a Mid-East war, shouldn’t last long and we definitely would come out winning

[OtterMan68]

just like we were in and out of Afghanistan or Iraq?

[Snakeyes7]

Last time I checked, Israel and Ukraine are not a part of the US.

Hell, we have better control of the border in those countries than we have for our own.

[Goahead76]

Well said. I think Israel and Ukraine are basically the 51st and 52nd states. They honestly get a million times more funding and priority than any actual citizens.

[Snakeyes7]

@Goahead76 Don't forget Puerto Rico.

You'd think that the very people who claim to be against colonization would have something to say about all this.

[Goahead76]

Good point 53 and yep, you're exactly right. I think even all NATO members are essentially vassal states.

[Snakeyes7]

@Goahead76 I think we would have to compete with the EU for that but sure.

[itsclearlynicholas]

Yes as I'd rather the US conserves their firepower and not having to always be the mop up guy

[itsclearlynicholas]

(the US as mop up guy)

[KostasKouvalis]

I think so. The U. S. has a tendency to destroy every place they touch

[WhiteBoyChill]

Yes, its a waste of money and lives.

Israel can screw itself.

I’m glad Biden said we won’t be doing their fighting for them.

[Twalli]

As long as we have allies there we can't stay out of conflicts there.

[NathanDavis]

business is business...