“If trans women aren’t real women, conservative christians aren’t real christians.” Do you agree with this statement?

[Gwendoline]

Apparently "The idea for this question comes from the idea that if trans women are going to be denounced as women for not meeting certain qualifications of womanhood in social settings, then conservative christians are in the same boat. This is a group of people that actively denounce all forms of support for the disenfranchised such as welfare systems, even though Jesus clearly says “feed the hungry and clothe the cold” in James 2:14-18 in their holy book."

Christians do feed the hungry, clothe the cold. We've all sorts of charities helping and we volunteer. We also pay taxes for welfare systems but welfare is there to help, its not supposed to be a lifestyle choice for those who can look after themselves.

Im sorry and I sympathise but no matter how much surgery, hormones they take, make up or women's clothes they wear a trans woman will never be a biologicak woman as all that is superficial.

No that statement is Christianphobic

No i trust the science (biology)

No only someone without a brain would spew that nonsense

All of the above

I agree with the statement

[Screenwriter]

Transwomen are men who, for whatever reason, something biological, something psychological, some miswiring of brains and hormones, decide they must LIVE as women and feel that they are women.

Most take hormones and have some kinds of feminizing surgeries to correct their external looks and practice to make their voices more feminine.

The statement that these people will be denounced and will not "make the qualifications" of "womanhood" in "social" settings is incorrect. Transwomen seek to appear, act and sound like biological women.

Where is the "perfect" woman, anyway? What are her "qualifications?"

I think that anyone seeking to go through with such a drastic change in their lives must be driven and committed to do so. Those seeking to do so go to psychiatrists and psychologists before they finalize such a choice and it takes years to complete it.

Though transwomen are not biological women, in the psychological and personal senses, they are women. It is not my choice, but it is theirs and it takes a lot of guts to do what they have.

The pope is not the last word on the human condition and he should keep his mouth shut on this and people's private choices on birth control.

And of course conservative christians are real christians. Again, what they choose to think and do does not fit my ideas of Christianity. But, in their minds they are christians and as in the case of transwomen and transmen, it takes all kinds of people to keep the world spinning. We don't have to agree with them to allow them room to be who they are.

[goaded]

Some things you may not know about Transgenderism! ↗

Nobody has to agree with hate.

[Screenwriter]

@goaded But you do realize that conservative Xtians and others say gay, bi, trans people are aberrations. Supposedly they don't "hate" them, but hate what they're doing because it's not in the "bible." It's Sodom and Gomorrah. Rain of salt and hellfire and all that from God.

Humanism is not in the bible. But it is the most reasonable way to live. However, conservative Xtians believe in an angry, judgmental, fire and brimstone, Old Testament God.

It's not hate, but it's not tolerance and generosity.

[goaded]

That word "Supposedly" is doing a lot of lifting there! You're right, but what kind of "Christian" ignores the part of the bible that Christ is in?

www.openbible.info/topics/love_thy_neighbor
https://www.openbible.info/topics/judge_not

[Screenwriter]

@goaded Lots defer to the Old Testament over the New Testament. I think that's completely wrongheaded. But there it is.

[goaded]

Wasn't that the whole point of Christ, though?

[Screenwriter]

@goaded Of course it was. But it's ignored. "I come to fulfill the Old Testament." But you sure don't hear that quoted much because fire and brimstone and anger seem to pull more votes. Love and peace just don't have the umph of the Old T.

[Emii_Urashima]

In Asian countries, society does not have a problem with "trans women". (They are generally refered to as "Ladyboys".) That is because they are not claiming to be biological women or demanding special treatment. The irony is that Ladyboys usually can fully pass as a real woman, unlike their western counterparts,. (mostly because they start their treatments early enough to actually be effective, instead of waiting until they are too old). But if you happen to mistake them as a biological woman, they will quickly tell you, "I am not lady, I am ladyboy!". Ladyboys do not demand that you believe that biological males can get pregnant and have babies. They don't demand that men stop calling themselves "men", and instead use the term "cis" or "cisgender" because the word "man" somehow hurts the feelings of transgender people. 🙄 I have close friends who are Ladyboys and while hanging out with them I have met many others. None of them had mental health issues, or demanded that I pretend they were born female and therefore a "real woman" Transgender people in countries like the USA don't want to fit in. They want society to conform to their delusions. If you came out of the womb with a penis, then you are not a biological woman. How difficult is that to understand?

[Chazmatazz269]

You’re conflating charity with government entitlement programs. Every church i’ve ever been to collects donations for neighbors in need, and members volunteer to help in other ways. This is the way.
Stealing tax dollars only to “help” people outside of the community is wrong on many levels. For starters you can look at all of the waste, fraud and abuse being uncovered at every tier of government right now. We’ve known for decades that even the “best” entitlement programs actually distribute less than half of their revenues to people who need it. Less than a third is typical.
Churches have been doing it better for longer.
Same goes with unions. We don’t need dozens of government agencies to manage labor and management relations. Unions have been doing it better for longer. Just end the opposition to unions and encourage everyone to join. People can and will take care of themselves and each other when given the chance.
Without government interference, there’s no limit to what we can accomplish.


And none of that has anything to do with transgender rights and privileges. It’s beyond absurd that you would even make such an obtuse comparison.

[Anonymous]

Well actually there are Conservatives and Christians in general who live by The Bible then will go “I don’t want to pay taxes”.

Just like how some ‘transwomen’ are real women, like Intergender people choosing a gender even if their mind / body don’t quite align. Parents will sometimes make the choice for them which parts get kept and which parts don’t, while their mind doesn’t align with it so they’ll get surgery or just dress like the gender they are really which is similar to the concept of Trans.

This isn’t an attack on Catholics or Religious in general, it is an attack on them calling The Left not followers of The Bible when in reality promoting social programs, housing the homeless, advocating for the hungry, and wanting universal healthcare for all, etc. is more in lines with The Bible than they want to admit.
This isn’t a game. This is our faith whether you are Left or Right, if you truly believe it than God would see you as greedy for not wanting to pay taxes to help uplift those groups which is one of the deadly sins last time I checked.

[Gwendoline]

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's

[OlderAndWiser]

I am a conservative Christian and I oppose most forms of government support for needy individuals. I oppose that because I don't think it is a proper function of government and making that a government function means that every taxpayer is forced to support other people. That is like someone coming to your front door and saying, "Your neighbor is unemployed and needs food. Give me food to buy them groceries or you are going to jail."

That does not mean that I am opposed to helping less fortunate people. I donate about $50 worth of food to my church's food bank every month. Many other conservatives at my church do the same. We do that because we want to and not because the government forces that on us under threat of being jailed if we don't cooperate.

[Gwendoline]

Depends how you look at it. Maybe your neighbour has worked for 30 years and paid taxes and national insurance (uk) all those years and has fallen on hard times or say a teen coming up from a low income family or orphanage needs help in life to get started and when they start work contributes. Like everything involving government such as road, welfare can only work if everyone is paying their fair share and if there's too many because of abuse of the system or there are too many it collapses. I don't think welfare can exist if its basically paying people a living who could be working.

[OlderAndWiser]

That is a typical European perspective. There is a fundamental divide between people on the issue of the proper role of government. Most Europeans want their government to provide a safety net so that they know they will always have their basic needs satisfied. They are willing to assume the burdens of a large government, and to surrender some freedoms if that is required for the safety net to be in place. More Americans want the government to be as small as possible, to provide maximum freedoms to each of us, and in return assume ultimate responsibility for our own welfare.

But that is a digression from the question asked, which is whether a person can be a Christian if they don't believe in substantial government welfare programs.

[ThisDudeHere]

So even the curch has fallen. I guess it's been a fine almost 2 millenia.

[BCRanger10]

That is an insanely stupid idea.

First off, the qualifier "trans" hollows out the entire thing. A man who thinks he is a woman, but has no knowledge or experience of being a woman, cannot possibly be a "trans-woman" and therefore a "real woman". The entire issue of being transgender is a self-refuting position.

Regarding the bit about conservative Christians? I suppose it shouldn't continue to amaze me at this point that people who either never have had or since forgotten their training and formation on how to think and act like a Christian (which, to be fair, was probably garbage to begin with, but I digress) or otherwise think that they've figured out something that 2,000 years of prayer, study, and exegesis has not, people whose biblical, theological, and philosophical competence fall somewhere between Michael Scott and a two-year-old trying to solve a calculus problem would go about pontificating as they do, but here we are. It ultimately comes down to "hey, that's in there somewhere, right?"

I would challenge such people to carefully read the Gospels (all of them, in full) and tell me where exactly they get this notion that Jesus Christ was some kind of far-left Marxist revolutionary. I've read all four Gospels. He affirms marriage as between one man and one woman in Matthew 19 and Mark 10. He affirms the ownership of weapons and condones self-defense in Luke 22. He cripples the idea of socialism and Marxism in Matthew 6. And in his second letter to the Thessalonians, Paul says that those who don't work don't eat. Likewise, Jesus never said anything about climate change, universal healthcare, open borders, and never called anyone who disagreed with him a racist, fascist, sexist, homophobic bigot.

A MAGA hat-wearing, American flag-waving patriot, he most certainly wasn't. But you're not going to convince me that he was a socialist hippie either.

[BCRanger10]

I forgot to mention that sometime in the next few months, I'll be writing two MyTakes about this exact subject. One will be about Christianity and politics in general and the other will be about how Christianity and socialism are mutually exclusive (in fact, that will be the title). In the latter, I'll make a very specific note that socialism is economic Satanism. Because it is.

[goaded]

Some things you may not know about Transgenderism! ↗

Old post, respond here, if you can.

[AngryCarl2]

@BCRanger10 Socialism didn't exist in Jesus' time but I suspect he would have viewed it as just another secular construct. I'll be interested to see your MyTakes although I already suspect I won't agree with them.

[BCRanger10]

@goaded My response is that I just read a whole bunch of nothing.

[BCRanger10]

@AngryCarl2 right, but some people will make that exact claim. But the reality is though that he wouldn't have given his blessing to it. If you read the Gospels, you'll see that he didn't talk about money all that much, or condemn the concept of wealth. There's really too much to get into in one comment, so it would be best to leave it here.

Don't get me wrong, I have serious doubts that he likewise would have given his blessing to the way capitalism is practiced today, but socialism is largely antithetical to Christian thought and practice.

[WonderingManII]

This is a very controversial question. I hate seeing these two questions put together. It feels like an attack on my Christian faith. We Christians have problems. Trans people have problems. I don't like to talk about both at the same time because each is complicated in it's own right. I don't believe that I should hate Trans people, but I also believe that I have the right to disagree with them, and what they do to their bodies. I heard that they don't live as long as the rest of average population, because changing genders from the one you are born with, isn't good for your health. I feel sorry for Trans people, because I think they are emotionally hurting inside, their desires are messed up, and they are dealing with it the way they believe is right. I have a right to disagree with that. Just like I have the right to have this opinion. GAG thank you for adding another point to my profile. I'm not going to argue my case. After all lots of smarter people can argue this case better than me anyways.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

What is a Christian?

Certainly not a member of a unified group, as it is the byproduct of a spectrum of worldviews and different branches chaotically brought together. Even the Bible cannot reconcile them permanently.

As OlderAndWiser said, in the West, there is a political philosophy clash, between free market and social market, loosely meaning US vs EU. Plus, there is a second, theological this time, clash: Catholics vs Protestants. Eventually, there's a third clash, Christianity vs the People. This third clash has a lot of implications, Christianity only cares about specific people, because there's God, a book, churches, priests and institutions saying it. Christianity relies on fixed state ethics that cannot budge easily because the roots date back to millennia. Whereas the world of people evolves too fast for Christianity to adapt. Because of this, whenever confronted to an ethical choice, between acknowledging sufferings and respecting their own rules, Christianity chooses to respect the rules. At the expense of the People.

Because Christianity has never been interested in the People of earth. It just wants to obey rules. And if charity is a rule then they obey this rule, but that's just forced and selective altruism. Whenever it isn't simply a way to get the ticket to heaven, the reward for being a "good Christian" I suppose.

For these reasons, I am "Christianphobic" then. I'm anticlerical. Because I fear the foundations of ethics in Christianity, because I fear how Christians can participate in creating an inhumane world where rules matter more than people's sufferings.

[contentious]

The Bible never says anything about government welfare systems. In the USA you will find that in Democrat regions they depend on government taxation and welfare systems because nobody in Democrat regions are charitable. In contrast in Republican area the people are against giving power to the government, and many people choose to be charitable. They give to the community often and the church through it's donations does much to feed the hungry and so on. Democrats can't fathom this concept because they are uncharitable and selfish, thus they must force the government to strong-arm their neighbors into slaver rather than offer a helping hand to those in need..

[contentious]

*slavery

[jshm2]

LOL, that's a false dichotomy.

So called "trans" need to be surgically and medically changed to look like something they are biologically not.

There is no such thing as a "conservative Christian". You are either Christian or just culturally a Christian. You cannot mix politics with faith equally.

[Gwendoline]

You can be conservatives and a Christian or Liberal and a Christian or neither as those terms are simplistic and most people don't fit into them

[emeraldsaphire]

The problem becomes how do you define a "biological women" It's not as simple as you might think, but at the end of the day I don't really care how you want to define a word. It's fruitless discussion of two people arguing that there subjective definition of a word is the right one.

As for "conservative charlatans" I have to ask what do you mean by that? You show a picture of the pope. So I assume you mean catholic conservatives (CC for short). CC are in a bit of a pickle as the "infallible magisterium" is becoming more and more liberal. Leading to clown masses and the pope praying with non Christians and even going so far as saying that we all worship the same god. It's a bit of a paradox, CC follow the pope, but the pope is becoming less conservative

[alli-112]

I don't agree with the statement because I don't agree with the logic. Being trans isn't a choice the way practicing a religion is. Conservatives have a choice in how they act and what kind of values they support, trans people were born with the traits they were and are simply trying to live lives that align with how their brains are naturally wired.

To clarify, I personally believe that trans women are women (and trans men are men, of course) because I believe that one's psychological/emotional experience is more important in how I consider them than their physical body. Their body doesn't affect me in the slightest, but their identity does affect how I interact with them to a limited degree. (Though neither actually matters very much to an outsider obviously, so I'm generally happy to refer to people however makes them feel most at ease. I consider that to be basic respect.)

[Ariesman81]

@alli-112

I would characterize that as enabling and/or people pleasing.

[alli-112]

@Ariesman81 Hardly. People pleasing is at cost to yourself. Using someone's preferred name or pronouns costs me nothing. Kindness and respect are completely different from people pleasing.

Enabling implies that I'm helping someone harm themselves. I don't consider being trans to be harmful, so I'm not enabling anything. Pretty much every trans person I've ever met has lived a happier life after transitioning, so that seems like a positive thing overall. You might consider practices like cosmetic surgery to be harmful due to personal beliefs, but my personal belief is that people can do what they want with their bodies, including making choices that I personally never would (esp if a doctor +/ psychologist is involved and recommending how to proceed in a safe and healthy way, which is generally the case for trans individuals).

[Ariesman81]

Trans people are validation addicts. All you're doing is giving a drug addict more drugs because you fear confrontation.

[alli-112]

@Ariesman81 I mean. No. I just believe that the way they live their lives is both fair and none of my business. If I saw a friend or loved one doing something I actually thought was bad for them (ex. engaging in serious substance abuse), I absolutely would say something and try to help them find professional help for whatever their issue is. If people are transitioning, they are usually already utilizing professional expertise, both psychological and medical. It's not my place to tell that that they, their doctors, and the broader fields of psychology and medicine are incorrect just because their experience isn't one I relate to. I wouldn't tell a trans person they're living their life wrong any more than I would do so to a religious person, even though I relate to neither experience.

It's not an issue of confrontation in the slightest.

[Ariesman81]

What do you mean no? Their entire existence is predicated on everyone validating and affirming their existence. And when society refuses to, they blow off the handle like a spoiled child. What they needed was tough love, which they never got, because the parents were to PC. Love is not letting people do whatever they want. In fact, it's the absence of care and love.

[alli-112]

@Ariesman81 I mean, that's literally untrue. Trans people will still be trans even if they don't receive validation from those around them. Trans people might not choose to present as their gender if they receive too much pressure from their surroundings, but that won't change who they are internally. All it will change is whether or not you perceive them for who they are. It's like how pressuring a homosexual person against being in a homosexual relationship doens't make them not gay, it just makes them hide it for the sake of not be emotionally attacked or harassed by everyone around them.

Personally, I'd rather the people around me not feel pressured to hide parts of themselves for fear that I'll act poorly towards them over things that don't affect me to begin with.

[Ariesman81]

Well, yeah... you're leftist. You believe accepting someone's delusion is seen as caring. I'm of the belief that telling them the truth is true caring, despite what their emotions say.

[alli-112]

@Ariesman81 No, I just believe that trans people aren't delusional. Brains are really complicated, so in doesn't surprise me in the slightest that some people would mentally align on complex social issues like gender differently than others.

[Ariesman81]

Wait... you said earlier you don't ascribe to their beliefs. Is that to say you're the delusional one? And while I agree the mind is complicated, lying and accepting untruths in order to make someone feel good, is well, manipulative.

[alli-112]

@Ariesman81 You really are trying hard, aren't you?

[Ariesman81]

😂... you'll see the light eventually

[alli-112]

@Ariesman81 I mean if it means being unkind to people just because they experience the world in a way I don't necessarily relate to, I'd honestly rather not.

[Ariesman81]

I'm not saying people can't be sympathetic and kind, but I draw the line at being nice. But again, our definitions of what's kind differ. I don't think it's very kind of a trans person to demand I call a he a her. The kind thing to do would be to remind him that his balls mean he is a he. No?

[DJB72]

Christianity is, by it's nature, conservative. Liberal "christianity" is a misnomer at best. A flat contradiction more accurately.

Genuine Christianity shows there are absolutes. If it's not Godly, it's ungodly. There's nothing in between. That applies to gender just like everything else.

I'm officially past caring if that belief means people block me on here. Or anywhere else. Real women, born with XY chromosomes are women. Nobody else is a woman irrespective of how their mental issues make them "feel". DNA is not subjective. It's not relative.

Christianity is not "tolerant". It is accepting. It is loving. Even if a perverted worldview is screaming something else. If you see someone walking towards the edge of a cliff that's happy about how they're walking is if loving to let them fall to their death? Is trying to stop them dying "intolerant"?

[Chazmatazz269]

‘XY’ is male, not female

[DJB72]

My apologies, you are correct. My checking of autocorrect needs more attention 🤦

[DonaldDarko]

It's a false equivalency obviously. It's too very different things. A Christian is something anyone could obviously actually be. A woman is a biological fact and you have to be born as such. For a man do call himself a woman is no different than me calling myself Abraham Lincoln, obviously I am not and can never be.

[Miristheiss]

You are a babbling loon.

For the first half of your statement... no MEN are not women. A man cannot become a woman. Any person with any lick of common sense and truth in them knows that.

Romans 10:9 - KJV - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Ephesians 2:8-9
King James Version
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Matthew 10:32-33
King James Version
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

[Lliam]

Trans-women are not women, period.

I don't know what a "real" Christian is. Some people are really nice. They can be empathetic, kind and charitable. Some people are ass holes. But anybody can be Christian. All they have to do is believe in the Bible.
I know lots of good Christians. But I can also think of endless examples of Christians who are horrible people. Being Christian doesn't automatically make someone a good person.
Incidentally, I'm not Christian.

[msc545]

Trans women are not women based on their biology and specifically on their DNA. In my book, at least, a Christian is a Christian. If they adhere to the teachings of Jesus Christ. I assume the conservative Christians like everyone else do that and I wish God's mercy on those who do not.

[goaded]

"I assume the conservative Christians like everyone else do that" LMAO! They're the ones sending people to concentration camps right now. Since they're South Americans, they're probably also Christians (not that it was good when it was Jews)!

[shortster]

Gender isn't a social construct but a biological reality.

[Gwendoline]

Yes non biological gender and social contracts are social constructs.

[shortster]

You can't have a non biological gender. That is a fantasy and not reality.

[leahzrc]

Politics are not religion. God and his only son seek the individuals heart and mind. Most politicians are corrupt bc they are possessed. Trans women are corrupt for being possessed by something that rejects God's creation.

[Guanfei]

Trans "women" are men. I don't see the link with christians.

[BCRanger10]

Because there is no link.

[Anonymous]

LOL, talk about a non sequitur.

Trans "women" are men pretending to be women.

Conservative Christians are Christians who are conservative.

[genericname85]

i think we can easily define woman based on factual non subjective things to arrive at the statement "trans women are not real women" for example if we define woman as "adult human female". christianity is a delusional cult about some god and a religious book called the bible. so i would say anyone who vaguely "follows the doctrin of that book or a certain reading of that book" is a christian by definiton.

[Anonymous]

Trans women sure as hell ain't real women, they are fucked up freaky motherfuckers. Most Christains , Conservative Christians included would turn on their own mothers or God and be friends with the Devil if it meant making money. You can always interpret the Bible to benefit yourself. They are usually chicken shit hypocrites.

[avery58]

Most modern conservatives don't practice or believe in true Christian values, yeah.

[HusamRocks]

I agree about the trans but I don't know anything about the Christians and not interested to know, and they are separated subjects that you can't compare or run the same measures on 👍🏻

[Flower7]

I don’t understand the comparison between trans people and Christians.

[Darklydarkened]

Religion is rarely about faith, it's usually a political cloth you dressyourself with.

[sean1234]

I don't believe the guy in that picture is a real Christian, none who wear that outfit are.

[Sevenpointfive]

you can't replace the word marriage with family and rewrite the bible.

[seeyounexttuesday]

Quite possibly this is the dumbest statement I’ve read this week.

[Babygirl_S]

None of my business. I do feel scared as they are physically stronger than me and sing songs like Alibi.

[Massageman]

I agree with you. XX = female. XY= male. The end.

[captain_voidwalker]

You don't know shit about conservative Christians. We are not against helping people. We are against the government putting a gun to our heads and saying do it or go to jail.

[Knightwatch27]

That makes literally no sense lol Just because you say "if x isn't real than Y isn't real either" doesn't make it so.

[Flower7]

I don’t get it either…

[Knightwatch27]

@Flower7 It's a liberal statement. Things do not have to make sense to them.

[Flower7]

Lol.

[SmokinAces2000]

If conservatives were real christians they wouldn’t be endorsing Trump

[IamRight]

So unless they have specifically state otherwise we should assume Conservatives are excluded when leftists trash talk christians since they are not real christians.
For example when leftists claims "christians are pedos", Conservatives are not real enough christian to be included in that statement in your opinion.

[SmokinAces2000]

You do realize that people can use the same label for 2 groups of people right? if I wanted to call either of them pedos I could just say “Christians are pedos and conservatives are pedos.” What point are you trying to make?

[IamRight]

Yeah I know, I’m saying that if Conservative christians aren’t real christians, then they are excluded when leftists trashtalk christians.

[SmokinAces2000]

Sure because like I said, someone can can say the same thing about two groups of people

[IamRight]

You can, but if they only were to say it about christians and no other group, they would be excluding Conservatives.

[RedInnocent69]

💯 Conservative Christians in America are gross and would crucify Jesus faster than the Romans. Catholics have has to walk a fine line adjusting to centuries (millennia?) of church dogma, but still limped towards, love all, serve all

[Oinkophobic]

Does god exist? Do trans women have uterus?

[Filthy_Immigrant]

first off religion and biology can never be compared so this whole argument is invalid

[Anonymous]

Trans women aren't real woman based in biological facts alone. Trans women are basically the same as white people using black face to pretend to be black. They are mentally damaged no more no less.

[AngryCarl2]

Both statements are true, but one doesn't follow from the other.

[noohair]

Gender is not religion.

[Anonymous]

I chose "all of the above", although I don't agree with silly terms ending in "... phobic"

[beefcakebradybatson]

About 90% of the time, H**L YEAH !!!

[kavakava]

Men aren't women.

[Anonymous]

They are women with dicks.

[BarryLiverstone]

Nope

[Anonymous]

I disagree

[Amur8711]

No, I don't agree

[jimmy2]

Nobi don't