I would say it is important that the WEST defeats totalitarian regimes. Two world wars is the reason.
Currently we are in World Gray Zone war.
If you look at Russia & China, their regimes are entirely about controlling their citizenry. Are they going to have benign thoughts about other countries and peoples. Nah their mindsets are all wrong. They think in terms of coercion, control and expansion.
The theory that bringing Russia and China into international commerce was just plain wrong. We are far better off impoverishing them.
We can simply stop buying their shit. That is the way to defeat them.
Communism is an economic system, not a political one. It is not inherently authoritarian in nature. You have confused Communism with political systems that are.
Not if you think a little more deeply. To have a communist economic system inherently require to apply political force. In the extreme the people might be the state and the state might be the people and state ceases to exist. But that is some nirvana that only exists with unicorns gamboling under rainbows and lambs lying down with lions.
In the marxist framework there is an oppressed class and an opressing class and obviously something has to be done about the oppressors. At the minimum you have to take from the oppressing class.
They can't have a factory to do wage theft with. That's political.
If the people own the means to production, that means the state. If the state owns all the factories that's political. You can't let me build a factory that makes a better product.
If it is "to all according to their needs" good luck in the "from all according to their abilities" part. You'll need to use force to get them to work to their abilities if they only get what everybody gets.
A communist economic system relies on political force to put into place and is inherently more political than economics.
Where is a communist economic system that has not required force to implement?
Vietnam and Cuba are both communist economic systems that actually do quite well. Probably, Probably force was required to implement those systems, but there is no force required to maintain them since they are quite popular with the people. I'm not just talking out of my ass about this, I've been to both places and I've seen the economics work, and they work fairly well. Most notably, there is none of the chronic infighting that capitalism brings, and that is a relief. The most salient feature of capitalism in this context is that it requires constant conflict in order to survive. Socialism and communism do not require this.
I have been to Vietnam and it is chock full of petty capitalism. There seems to be a pact that the political won't interfere with the people and the people won't interfere with the politics.
But if nearly everybody is a petty capitalist how is that communism? At the state level it says it is but it is not on the street. It is inviting capitalist companies into the country to do capitalistic things. Not much in the way of the people owning the means of production.
More classic factory owners and wage slaves with wage theft. :)
I think you may be confusing capitalism with meritocracy when you talk of infighting. Meritocracy is not exclusively part of capitalism. The most meritorious communists presumably rise to the top though what is regarded as meritorious might differ.
I can't speak on Cuba as I haven't been there but I do know that Cuba's sugar production has fallen badly due to out dated infrastructure with 40% of mills closing and it's electricity infrastructure is failing due to neglect. It needs to import food & medicine but struggles to afford.
How much time did you spend in Vietnam and why were you there? Why is it that you say that you can't speak on Cuba because you haven't been there, but then you proceed to do so anyway? It is true that much of the infrastructure in Cuba is outdated, but the reason it's outdated is because of the absolutely unnecessary embargo by the United States.
The West itself and then particular the United States or also totalitarian regimes that are no better than Russia or China. That isn't a large part of the problem we are currently having in the United States with Trump.
Sorry is a large part of the problem. I hate autocorrect.
Well I can read stats on Cuba and their electricity woes have made the news round the world.
What I can't say is anything on Cubans themselves and their outlook. The US is just one country and they could trade with others. Sugar is a world crop. Rum cigars etc. Certainly they have stuff to trade.
I was a few weeks in Vietnam. Lots of people go to Vietnam. Two friends are on their way as I write.
Yes, well, Cuba has an infrastructure problem because it can't get raw materials from the United States. And everywhere else that's reasonably close can't provide them. It's not like Guatemala has a big steel industry. It's not like Panama has a large supply of copper to make wire with. The problems that Cuba has are a direct result of the United States embargo. When you say they can trade with other people, you might want to look at a map to see where Cuba is located relative to the rest of the world. It's not exactly close. Yes, sugar is a world crop and it's grown a lot of other places besides Cuba, so Cuba doesn't do too well with the sugar. Rum and cigars, they do a little bit better. But generally speaking, Cuba does not do well in the world economy.
Cuba used to do well in the tourist trade for tourists from the United States. until the United States decided that Cuba's communist economy was absolutely unacceptable as if it were the business of the United States to decide anything about the economies of other countries and yet the United States has done that repeatedly and when they really dislike it, they destroy the country. So I guess Cuba should consider itself fortunate that the United States hasn't destroyed it yet, but ultimately it probably will.
Hosting nuclear missiles didn't help Cuba and it is what Cuba is still best known for. But it expropriated all American assets so of course the US imposed a trade embargo over that. We did talk of how communism has to use force. It didn't occur to Fidel that if he used force, force might be used against him? Or at least his chosen enemy might stop buying his shit.
To an Aussie, Cuba is conveniently close by everything where as we are about as far away from everywhere you can be and still have dry feet. Doesn't stop us being the 4th largest exporter of agricultural products. You just have to do the work.
Cuba seems to be a good case of a country that could have abundant riches but it's eco-political system stops it from being so.
What system what riches? Like the US has? 10% rich people the rest poor?
My views lean libertarian and I believe in laissez faire economics so communism is in direct opposition of everything I believe. Ironically, my favorite country to visit is Vietnam and I would move there in a heartbeat. Communism today isn't what it was in the 1980s. I still oppose it and would never open a business in a communist country but Vietnam isn't oppressive. It's a wonderful country with friendly people. There is a very large expat community that is driving up prices and the majority of expats there aren't left leaning. I started doing business in China 12 years ago and China has changed a lot in those 12 years. Communism is evolving and is allowing some freedoms and capitalism in. I'd live in Hong Kong over a lot of other countries.
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Socialism (Communism) was started by Islamic Freemasons. Islam's goal is total conquest of the entire world. So, yes if you don't want to be subjugated under Sharia law or put to death, it's in your interest to fight off such systems of bondage.
Please feel free to add some evidence of all of this which is quite radical and consists of things that I have not only never heard of but certainly can't even source reliably.
What does that have to do with Islamic Freemasons?
The Ulama (Illuminati) are the scholars in Islam who are knowledgeable in religious texts, law, and theology, etc.. They believe they possess the secret "gnosis" (knowledge). They are Sufi Muslims, and through Freemasonry (Gnostic path) they infiltrate nations in their quest to conquer the world. They stir of chaos and revolution to take power. So for example, they financed and provoked the French revolution and directly assaulted the current world order at the time stripping the power of the Catholic church (Christianity) and slaughtering them in the streets to separate a people from their culture and substitute it with a new. They pushed the "Cult of Reason" (atheism) to attack the church and usurp power in France and subjugate it's people who would be leveraged under Napoleon and his inner circle of Freemasons in an attempt to conquer Europe. The ideas that spawn during that revolution were used again to take Russia in the Russian Revolution, and during the rise of the Third Reich to again try to conquer Europe. At this very moment they are again pushing those same Socialist ideas in Europe and flooding their countries with Muslims to again try to raise and army to slaughter Christians and Jews as they try to conquer Europe. This is why you see Muslim Palestinians aligned with Socialist Democrats in the USA. It's the same army. They have similar ideas for America. So sleeping on what is right in front of your face is fatal. Islam thinks the entire world belongs to them.
thank you!
I will confess that I have absolutely no idea what the origin of any of this and I have no idea if there's any validity or truth to any of it. I am doubtful.
There's a lot of history behind it all, but I'll point you in the right direction on some of the topics. For National Socialism (Nazism) you would look into Barron Rudolf von Sebottendorf who was a mentor to Adolf Hitler. He was the founder of the Thule Society. The Thule Society is notable chiefly as the organization that sponsored the Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (DAP; German Workers' Party), which was later reorganized by Adolf Hitler into the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP or Nazi Party). Rudolf von Sebottendorf was a Freemason, a Sufi of the Bektashi order after his conversion to Islam in Turkey. He wrote the book "Secret Practices of the Sufi Freemasons: The Islamic Teachings at the Heart of Alchemy". If you want to key in on some of Hitler's loyalties to Islam and hatred of the Jews and Christianity you can read Albert Speer's memoirs, titled "Inside the Third Reich. Speer's was a Nazi official and close associate of Adolf Hitler who documented many things Hitler said. Hitler was also closely associated with
Amin al-Husseini the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (Ottoman Empire which is modern day Turkey). Amin al-Husseini recruited Muslims to fight for Hitler's Nazi army. He fielded the largest SS division in the Nazi army.
Thank you. I will look at those sources
If you want to know about Islam's goals of World Domination then you would have to read the Quran and the Hadith in depth. If you want a highlight real then check answering-islam dot org. There is plenty of material on there which can show you what Muslims believe and point you to all the primary sources where you can confirm their claims.
The Bolsheviks of the Russian revolution got their doctrine primarily from Marx and to a lesser extent Engels whom drew their ideas from the French Revolution. Marx was actually going to write a book on the French Revolution, but that never came to pass. None the less his writings are littered with references to the French Revolution. Marx considered the French Revolution the classic example of the "bourgeois revolution". That's where he draws most of his ideas from concerning class struggle, the potential for revolutionary change, class conflict, atheism (hatred of Jews/Christianity), etc.
Lloyd De Jongh on YouTube can provide a lot of sources on Islam's connection to Gnostism and Freemasonry. The amount of material he provides is well beyond the comment section of GaG. So go watch his videos and then check his sources. He sources everything and often uploads copies of his source material to his google drive for academic purposes.
I shall do that. Thank you
As far as the French revolution, many top ranking officers under Napoleon Bonaparte army were documented Freemasons from a number of lodges. By the Third French Republic Freemasonry was considered the "Church of the Republic" and you have various documents of Freemasons bragging about being the architects of the French Revolution.
In the chamber of Deputies during the sitting of 1 July 1904 the Marquis de Rosanbo pronounced the following words: (Quoted in the Conjuration anli-chretienne by Mgr. Henri Delassus.)
Mr. de Rosanbo. — Freemasonry has worked in a hidden but constant manner to prepare the revolution.
Mr. Jumel. — That is indeed what we boast of.
Mr. Alexandre Zevaes. — That is the greatest praise you can give it.
Mr. Henri Michel. — That is the reason why you and your friends hate it.
Mr. de Rosanbo. — We are then in complete agreement on the point that Freemasonry was the only author of the revolution, and the applause which I receive from the Left, and to which I am little accustomed proves, gentlemen, that you acknowledge with me that it was masonry which made the French revolution.
Mr. Jumel. — We do more than acknowledge it, we proclaim it."
The following is from a report read at an assembly of the lodges Paix et union and la libre conscience. Orient of Nantes, 23 April 1883.
It was from 1772 to 1789 that masonry elaborated the great revolution which was to change the face of the the world. It was then that the masons gave to the people the ideas which they had adopted in their lodges."
Socialism and communism are not the same thing. How is it You don't know that?
All you're doing is trying to derail the conversation. You claim there's no evidence for what I said even though a 10 year old could find the basics of it in 10 minutes. So I provide you with evidence, then you try to change the subject. In reality you're just an Islamist doing the Muslim shuffle.
Communism requires state control over resources theoretically, while socialism distributes based on contribution and effort by the government taking from the people and distributing the resources which means the state controls the resources. It's the same thing with different branding.
Allah's Apostle (Muhammad) said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’” 1
Fight those from among the people of the Book, who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor hold as unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have declared to be unlawful, nor follow the true religion, until they pay the tax considering it a favour and acknowledge their subjection. -Surah 9:29 (Sher Ali)
O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him). -Surah 9:123 (Pickthall)
Ibn Kathir lays out the prominent role of offensive jihad in Islam’s early days as he comments on Surah 9:123 above:
Allah commands the believers to fight the disbelievers, the closest in area to the Islamic state, then the farthest. This is why the Messenger of Allah started fighting the idolaters in the Arabian Peninsula. When he finished with them… He then started fighting the People of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians). After Muhammad’s death, his executor, friend, and Caliph, Abu Bakr, became the leader… On behalf of the Prophet , Abu Bakr… started preparing the Islamic armies to fight the Roman cross worshippers, and the Persian fire worshippers. By the blessing of his mission, Allah opened the lands for him and brought down Caesar and Kisra and those who obeyed them among the servants. Abu Bakr spent their treasures in the cause of Allah, just as the Messenger of Allah had foretold would happen. This mission (of world domination) continued after Abu Bakr at the hands of he whom Abu Bakr chose to be his successor… Umar bin Al-Khattab. With Umar, Allah humiliated the disbelievers, suppressed the tyrants and hypocrites, and opened the eastern and western parts of the world. The treasures of various countries were brought to Umar from near and far provinces, and he divided them according to the legitimate and accepted method. Umar then died… Then, the Companions among the Muslims… agreed to choose after Umar, Uthman bin Affan...
During Uthman's reign, Islam wore its widest garment and Allah's unequivocal proof was established in various parts of the world over the necks of the servants. Islam appeared in the eastern and western parts of the world and Allah's Word was elevated and His religion apparent. The pure religion reached its deepest aims against Allah's enemies, and whenever Muslims overcame a community, they moved to the next one, and then the next one, crushing the tyranical evil doers. They did this in reverence to Allah's statement, O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you.
I honestly do not know if there's any evidence or not, but I know that I don't have any at the moment, and I probably won't have any until I consult your sources. I'm not sure I exactly know what an Islamist is, but I know I'm not one.
History shows that it's always a huge mistake to intervene in other country's internal affairs. Vietnam -- we lost badly and killed hundreds of thousands. Iraq -- wasted trillions of dollars to make it worse than it was under Hussein. Afghanistan -- the same, we lost badly and now it's a theocratic nightmare.
m And what communism would that be? Have you been stuck in the 1950s?
Communism is an economic system, not a political one. It is not inherently authoritarian in nature. You have confused Communism with political systems that are.
You don't say! Coincidentally as Germans we had the dubious opportunity of one half of Germany dabbling in their form of communism. Which, less coincidentally, lead to the vast majority of people losing interest in a communist system. Hence, only people stuck in the past would still lament it.
No, what you had were communists dabbling with different forms of political systems. Communism is an economic system, not a political system.
No. Leave them alone. Stop virtue signaling and imposing our culture on others. Maybe Communism works for them
Communism is horrid, but America's task should be to show other countries why TRUE democracy (i. e., not U. S. oligarchy) is important.
You are doing what so many other people do and you are confusing. The economic system of communism with the political system of democracy. These two systems can and do coexist quite comfortably. Communist I'm just not eliminate democracy nor just democracy. Eliminate communism in many countries. Just because democracy is paired with capitalism in the United States does not mean that that automatically follows everywhere else.
America is an oligarchy, NOT a democracy.
LMFAO /// How do you expect the USA to defeat Commies elsewhere when they can't even keep the Nazi's/ Fascists out of their own government? LOLOL
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