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Trump claims he is murdering people on boats and using our taxes dollars to do it to prevent addicts in his MAGA base from getting drugs because they are so stupid, helpless and weak to resist them. Rob Reiner and his wife spent so much energy and heartache and countless million$ trying to fix their drug-addled loser of a son and their reward was being murdered by him. Why are we trying to help addicts? They are a lost cause. Let them OD or drink themselves to death. They knew the dangers of substance abuse and they ignored them. It was the life they chose. Agree or disagree? Vote below!
Yes. Lost cause. Let Satan call the addicts home.
I disagree. I want my life to be ruined along with my favorite addict.
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What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
17Opinion
No... but many are.
You might have made a fine Empress Dowager centuries back, to put an end to the import of Opium ruining China... first and second opium wars. Might you have been re-surrected?
Your statement lends validation to the brutal and cold hearted approach Trump admin is taking... albeit it's unnecessary to slaughter people as they are, maybe it's working? Stop the stuff from coming in at all... all those addicted are screwed and will suffer or die or recover. But others whove never touched it, can't get it... because it's shut off. Now to be honest, that is very difficult to do, but he's put a lot of military in place to do so... and as well get control of some valuable oil to pay for it all. He will make Venezuela pay for it and then some.
But this isn't about policy. No, addicts are people and I've seen them in church and some of them climb their ways out of it. What I see, it requires faith to rise above the damage and time and effort to reprogram the person. It is one hell of a battle against what lead them into the drug in the first place, frequently trauma, but could just be bad choices. Just getting a smoker to stop is nearly impossible... they have to want it, or forget it. If they do, there are facilities and services for them.
Sadly, there is not enough support for these people along the way, they are shunted... most people won't touch or go near or trust. No wonder, they need locked up. There are some amazing people whom will, usually very caring people of faith or special rehab programs. Ultimately, it's up to them, everyone is responsible for themselves.
When you are a person that is saved by faith in Christ, then you are called to a higher power to consider the rest of the lost... which includes most everyone. That does not mean you let them ruin your life or anyone elses. It is frankly, more difficult than ignoring them.
What the adversary (devil/satan) wants is separation from God (love). These are at least logical constructs if not real. That is the core issue, to rebind people to a source of love so they feel secure and aren't addicted to what ruins them. Drugs is one of those things, but there are many drugs.
That's the calling, it is not easy.
Drugs will always find their way here. The weak will succumb to them and that's just too bad. Bombing every boat Trump sees isn't the answer.
So if you were in charge, you'd do nothing? Been fighting the battle a long time, losing a lot of people every year.
I would put in strict laws, sure. But I wouldn't be bombing boats. they say 1 in 4 suspected "drug boats" that come into Miami have no drugs. So bombing every suspicious boat is probably murdering 25% innocent people.
That's fair. Then you accept the illegal drugs coming in, and many lose, and that's that. That's your policy. There are reasons China shut it's borders for a long time. not ideal, but it's all been done before.
So you believe in defense, that's fine, it's your policy and the policy of others. You also believe once someone runs into the stuff, they are garbage, is that correct interpretation? It's not unreasonable for a normal human to say that. It's been done both ways, It hasn't worked... there's no way around the reality there is demand as long as there is supply. Question might be... why is there a demand for drugs... open that pandoras box, you might think differently about people.
the HGIC (Head guy in charge) decided to go to undeclared war offensive, or possibly an extension of the "war on drugs"... not sure that was ever officially sanctioned. Sounds like he's going to be bombing on land soon, that's a whole new level , although other govts have done the same and done covert actions (Nicaragua... the contras, Panama? etc..). He should get a declaration from congress... he's not a person that asks for permission. It's a worthy protest...
Realize there are drivers for his behavior... his brother died from drugs, legal ones. He may have a "vice" against such scorges, as others do, and will use his position in power and final days of life, to squash it and declare victory.
Sit back and watch, hope noone gets killed or it doesn't blow up worse, or protest. those are the options.
There's no Satan and no God so let's drop the religious bullshit up front. Are addicts a lost cause? A lot of them are. They are a on a long slow path to suicide by chemicals whether that is alcohol, tobacco, coke, meth, heroin, prescription meds, or designer drugs like fentanyl. Can it be stopped, turned around? Sure, sometimes. But the Reiner kid I think went through rehab something like 17 times. Rehab clearly is not a perfect solution.
Should we bring these addicts back from the edge of death with more drugs like Narcan (Naloxone)? Is that just delaying the inevitable for people who don't really care if they live or die? Does the knowledge that Narcan exists just encourage bad choices? What's the point? Should we lock them in a room with a bag of fentanyl or meth instead and let them get on with it?
Should insurance policies be allowed to exclude payment for treatments for the toasted livers of alcoholics or the destroyed lungs of tobacco addicts? Should medical resources even be diverted to help these people who choose self destruction by chemicals?
What debt or devotion do family, husbands, wives, boyfriends and girlfriends, or friends have to stand by an addict? When do you cut them loose?
Cutting off the supply has never worked, prohibition, the war on drugs, etc. Demand / users will find a way or they will find another drug.
In the USA 84.5 million or 32.8% of adults over the age of 18 have either an SUD (Substance Use Disorder) or AMI (Any Mental Illness). SUDs affect over 48.5 million or about 19% of Americans aged 12 and over. Most common disorders are related to alcohol, marijuana, and prescription pain relievers. So roughly 8 out of 10 people do not have an addiction problem. What do we do about the 2 out of 10 who do have a problem?
I would argue we evaluate and separate them into groups like Worth Saving and Not Worth Saving and then allocate resources accordingly. Give the "Worth It" crowd a chance to turn their lives around. Give the "Not Worth It" crowd unlimited access to their drug of choice in a controlled environment for as long as it takes.
I'm not religious. I use those words for emphasis. Just like I'm waiting for Satan to call Trump home.
There are 5 sorts of people.
1) people who reject and never use drugs or drink, however they fall often very fast in addiction if their live destabilizes slightly.
2) people who can resist addictions even if they taste drugs they are capable to stop.
3) people who are functional addicted but prosper normal inside society. They control their addiction take as much as necessary. For alcoholics it's so called level drinkers.
4) absolute suicidal drug users who will take everything in every amount or/and binge drink if they have enough alcohol. Those people are a burden for others, especially for their families.
5) they are 4) but have moments when they stop to abuse substances for a while. However often breaks start to become shorter or they stop completely when their health is damaged.
4) are a lost case in my opinion
The Reiner case is a tragic one. I don't know that the family spent millions on putting their son in rehab. But in most cases, it takes multiple times before addicts get on the path to wellness. And it's true: Some never recover.
If you have this attitude, then let's let chain smokers die and the grossly obese remain encased in their addiction and handicapped.
People try alcohol and drugs, cigarettes and food not to get addicted to them, but to have fun. No one sets out to be a heroin, cocaine, meth, crack or oxy addict. People have genetic predispositions and under the influence of drugs and alcohol do things no normal person would.
The only time a person is a lost cause is when they're dead. The Reiners had hope for their son who was still young. It was misplaced in this instance. Sometimes you DO have to let go. But not in every case.
An addict has to want to change. Most don't and badgering them makes them double-down in their stubbornness. I read the story of David Crosby. He was hopelessly addicted to freebasing cocaine, along with other drugs. Everybody tried to help him over the years to no avail. I know the stories of Kurt Cobain and Scott Weiland, Janis Joplin, Amy Winehouse, etc. Interventions helped none of them. Their friends and families were powerless in helping them, because all were hopelessly addicted because they loved it. Addicts become totally selfish and do not care about you. They use you. David Crosby ONLY survived and kicked addiction because he was finally arrested and thrown in jail. He went cold turkey not out of choice. It was forced upon him. Babying addicts by enabling their lifestyle is not only dangerous, it's a waste of time, money and energy.
Obese people don't destroy the lives of others. Smokers won't destroy your life, either. Those aren't good comparisons. A gambling addict can destroy a family, though.
Obese people destroy their own lives and their disability affects their families and families become enablers. That is destructive. Again, smokers destroy their own health and if they live with non smokers can affect them too. It's a matter of degree.
And of course an addict has to want to change. But to say that an addict LIKES being an addict is incorrect. In the throes of addiction the actual brain is affected, the mind, thought processes aren't normal. This is why it is so hard to get to a point of wanting and acting to change. Addicts with money don't often hit "rock bottom," which might move them to want to stop. As long as there is money, food, a home, it's difficult for an addict to stop destructive behaviors. And the big addictions mean loads of irrational behavior and thought. High levels of anger and acting out.
Parents rarely want to oust a child who's struggled with addiction to have them homeless, dying of some illness. Until you have a significant other who's addicted, pronouncing judgment is harsh.
Most parents and family members are not slain but remain broken hearted over having to ban a spouse or child or sibling from family connections.
I Respectfully disagree. The Reiners would be alive today had they not intervened. They enabled their son. They paid for something like 19 trips to rehab. He was living on their property in a guest house when he murdered his them. If you love someone, set them free. It's great advice. Their murderous son would have either died because of his choices out on the streets (likely) or he would have somehow figured it out on his own (unlikely). Either way, Rob and his wife would be alive and their son just a footnote that showed the dangers of addiction.
Not saying that putting him out would NOT have been the best choice. I. e. cutting him off. Just saying some people aren't strong enough to do so. Sadly, they weren't.
They did it for a while. That asshole was living on the streets. Then they took him back. Their reward? Being stabbed to death. 💀 ☠️
Nah, some of them have recovered from their vices and for that I say congrats to them. Addiction is a terrible malady usually rooted in some sort of mental illness which is treatable in a lot of cases. The problem is that health care in this country, and especially in the case of mental health, has become so unaffordable for many people that we end up not being able to help these addicts.
They have to do it on their own. You can scold them once and see what happens. If they ignore you, give up. You'll save priceless time and energy. 😊
Addiction is a long term battle that needs constant care and attention. Yes, it can drag both of you down and maybe learning when to cut ties might be better for your mental state, however, if it's someone you care about then calling it quits after one attempt sounds cruel.
Correction. It was cruel for the irresponsible & sinful deadbeat to drag you down with them. Unforgivable, in fact. :)
Wow... As someone who's a recovering alcoholic (9 months 29 days) I take offense to this question. You don't throw people away because they became lost in life. You show them the path to redemption and then let them make the choice to walk it. And they may not walk it when you want them to, but at least you did your part to help. I sincerely doubt, mostly because of your herd mentality gender, you'd be ok if your logic were turned on you. You'd want someone in your life who believes in you, not someone like you who discards people. GFC
It is a choice and people do make mistakes , and should have a second chance , and I think if anything should be free is rehab besides all that boat bullshit is over oil the government could careless about us , about 20 years ago someone said to regulate the abilities of AI and they also said a male would start a war and that millions die
Being an addict is not a choice
in my opinion addicts are a lost cause. They are a drain on society. You can't help someone that won't help themselves. Let the go when the od.
They are in no way a lost cause, but in my life seeing tons of alcoholics, the odds are unfortunately not good. So maybe rather than discussing are they a lost cause, discuss what can we do better.
We can take away their car keys, suspend their licenses, jail them, stuff like that. But spending time and money on them is a total waste. :)
While it's true that enabling addicts prevents them from experiencing the hell their choices lead too, removing the temptation is something a good leader should do.
A treatment facility doesn't allow drugs in, Trump shouldn't either.
Trump is bombing boats saying he's stopping drugs in a hope to start a war that will be over oil. Everybody knows this. He literally just pardoned a drug kingpin. He doesn't give a rat's ass.
Well, he's actually doing both, crippling Venezuela's drug and oil economy. It's all in an effort to oust Maduro. And honestly, I'm in favor of ridding the western hemisphere of socialism as well.
Oust him so Trump can take over the oil. Trump is vile.
Why? Cause he'd rather we buy it than our enemies?
He's murdering people.
He's killing drug runners, seizing sanctioned oil ships and putting pressure on Maduro to "do something".
Nope. My girlfriend was an addict, she's well into recovery. Hell, I'm an alcoholic.
Not necessarily. But addicts have to have the courage and stamina to get away from addictions. I quit smoking tobacco and even that was difficult.
I see you have no intention of having a real discussion
This is a poll. You can agree or disagree with my point of view. :)
A poll where both options ARE your view
They are opposite views. Set them free and enjoy your life or put all your time, effort and money into a lost cause and destroy your life.
I refer back to my original statement
Refer away, gentle dufus.
I really dont know the answer
Yes many addicts are too far gone to want to be helped the ones that do deserve a shot at it. Not 5 or ten tries but one chance to be treated what to do with the rest i dont have a clue.
I think if people want to take a risk on themselves and do drugs they should be allowed to. If they die it's their fault for taking the risk. I don't think the drug boats should have been destroyed unless they were attacking our people/property.
I think it depends on what you are addicted to. Maga-cult addicts are lost forever. It would be better if you were addicted to heroin. Then when you got off it, you could get appointed to a cabinet position.
There are no drugs being imported through the Caribbean sea. It is far cheaper to smuggle them in over the US/Mexican border.
Maybe that's how they get to Mexico?,,,
@fivebyfour No, they are manufactured in Mexico using chemicals from China. This is well-known.
ah ok thanks, I'm in UK by the way,
@fivebyfour Fentanyl is so potent that thousands of doses can be contained in a very small space.
Should we bus them all down to Mar-a-lago and turn it into a giant rehab center?
Sure. :)
We'll also put a moat around it with alligators.
Is that to prevent people from getting in or getting out?
Addiction is a disease, not a personality trait
Some, not all. I've lost family and close friends to addiction.
No. This is an adult topic of discussion. Unfortunately, your pre-teen brain doesn't have the capacity to handle it properly.
95.9% of the time.