The "girlfriend zone"?

[Anonymous]

Okay, I know you're probably like "wtf, girlfriend zone?" But this is something that has happened to me quite a few times, and I would really like to understand why.

Plenty of girls have probably experienced this same thing. You meet a guy, hang out, get to know them, and then it happens; they ask you out, when really you're only looking for a friend. Someone to have fun with, hang out with and talk to. So you inform them of this, in the nicest way possible, of course, but then... they're gone. This person that you once thought was your friend starts treating you like a pariah, or an acquaintance at the very best.

I feel that when a guy meets a girl, he immediately puts her into the "girlfriend" category, and then when it is discovered that she's really only looking for a friend, his ego is hurt and he immediately just drops her.

So, guys, when you're pissed off about being put into the "friend-zone", think about how us girls must be feeling.

And that, my friends, is the girlfriend zone. Thoughts? Concerns? Questions?

[kholland65]

First of all, let me just say that you are probably relatively attractive, which increases the odds of this happening.

also, this is pretty much due to the way the male mind works and how our society views the roles of the gender. Men view the world through a much more sexual context. Our biological role is quantity. So every girl we meet our mind immediately sizes her up to see if she is a potential mate. When quantity is more or less wired into you sexual DNA, it makes sense that you'd consider any girl who you meet who is at least somewhat attractive. Your mind is basically telling you not to leave any rock upturned in a way.

That said, I also think there might be a social and practical element to this. Men know, that for the most part, we provide more utility to a women in a friendship than she does to us. A female friend requires more work and management then another male friend does. We have to defend her, protect her, lead her, fix things for her, provide emotional support, etc. Men on the other hand are just raised to be more self sufficient both physically, mentally, and emotionally. There is no social norm that says a guy needs to bend over backwards for another guy. That's not to say there aren't exception to this within both genders, but we're talking generalities.

The point, is we essentially men are obligated by society and biology to give women special treatment that we don't have to give to a guy. Women on the other hand provide very little non sexual utility to men, which when you think about it is apparent in the most primal level of our behavior and physical biology. Women's bodies have been designed for one major role and that's to bare and raise children. Men's bodies were made to provide utility (defense, labor, hunting, etc.). Given this, a women's "skills" aren't brought into play unless there is a relationship present. However, a man's "skills" can be tapped into outside of a relationship. As men progress through their teen years and early adult years, and interact with more women in their friend groups, they start to pick up on this. They subconsciously then start to avoid more so than men because they just simply take more work and provide less RIO so to speak.

So, this is pretty much why a guy will walk away once he knows that a relationship is not in the cards. It's like you walking into the store and telling the clerk you like that jacket on the rack, but don't have any money to pay for it.

[Asker]

This is extremely insightful. Thank you for sharing. I just feel like... in today's world, women can do anything. I mean, look at Danika Patrick. She's a nascar driver. And there are so many more... so, really, women aren't only here to have kids and clean the house.

Like, I just want a guy friend that I can sit around with. Play video games. Just have fun, you know? Because none of my girlfriends will sit and play video games, or go hiking with me, or surf with me, etc. etc. You feel?

[kholland65]

Remember, I'm talking about biology here. Just because there are successful, skilled, and self sufficient women, doesn't mean that this distinction becomes present in our DNA. And again, I was speaking in generalities. Most women are not danika patrick. In a way, biologically that is exactly what you were designed to. Men were designed to hunt, protect, and labor but that doesn't mean all men become soldiers, cops, hunters, and construction workers. Societal influence can people to defect from their biological primary role, which is ok.

Why can't you do that stuff with a relationship? If you are that close with a person, to a man like myself it would appear logical that this girl I'm getting along with so well would make a great girlfriend. What you are essentially saying is either the guy wasn't attractive enough to take things that one extra level, or you are just overall not interesting in getting into a relationship in general, even if the right guy came around.

[Asker]

Well, you see, the thing with relationships is that they can end. And then you don't really want to be friends anymore, since it becomes awkward. But friendship is something so important. And, yes, I get scared to get into relationships. I don't even know why, but I feel more comfortable just being friends rather than lovers. Then I don't have to worry as much about how I look or act or anything.

[kholland65]

You have every right to feel that way, but understand that not everyone shares your mentality or has your same anxieties, and you need to respect that. Flip the coin around, the guys could easily argue there is something wrong with you for having such an aversion to relationships (which is a natural human desire), especially with guys you get along well with.

[HorrorFan]

This is the one of the fundamental differences between men and women.

Women will spend time and energy looking for male friends. Men, by and large, don't really do this. We spend our energy around members of the opposite sex, attempting to either get sex or get a girlfriend.

Now, I'm not saying men and women can't be friends, because obviously they can, but there is a matter of what one gender deems an appropriate use of time and energy towards members of the opposite sex and what we want out of it.

The reason they are gone isn't because of ego. (usually) It's because there is no reason to spend time around someone when you both clearly want differing levels of interactivity.

Honestly, why would you want a sham friendship? Do you want a guy pretending to be friends with you, always hoping that you give in and eventually want more? He's not going to just get over his attraction without going through several painful levels of unrequited love first. It's really not worth it.

I always have and always will tell guys who were friend zoned to just save themselves the heartache and move on and try their hand again at a girl that actually might want to be with them.

Girls aren't in a position to be on the defensive about this. You shouldn't want male friends that want you. Nothing good can come out of it.

[Asker]

But I've known some guys... and we'll have so much in common, and I'll start to think "wow, he might actually be different." And then, BAM, out comes the "I like you" and it kills me because I legitimately want them as a friend. I don't see how you could get along with a person so well and then just be like "bye" because they told you they didn't want a relationship. I mean, couldn't you just have fun with the girl, and simply try and forget about the attraction? Go out, meet other girls, get a girlfriend, but still be friends with the other girl?

I just feel like I'm losing out, and it makes me so sad saying no, because I really enjoy being around guys and having them as friends. Sometimes that's just all I want. And I don't think it's fair that a guy meets me, puts me into the "potential girlfriend" category, and then acts like I'm the one that did something wrong when I tell him that I really do like them, as a friend.

[HorrorFan]

That's just reality, though. If he finds you attractive and you have a lot in common, of course he's going to want to be with you. That's... how relationships develop. Not to mention that when you are looking for male friends, most of them have to be single because most girlfriends aren't going to let their boyfriends befriend other girls.

This is why most guys just stick with their guy friends when it comes to friendships. It just removes all the complication that attraction can bring.

They have to say "bye". There is no other viable option. You are asking them to basically suck up the emotional pain that unrequited love causes. That doesn't go away. If anything, it just grows. This doesn't even take into account when you finally DO get a boyfriend and he now knows in what ways he wasn't really good enough for you. He can't go and meet other girls because that girl isn't going to let him maintain a friendship of with a girl he is attracted to and has a lot in common with.

[Intraluminal]

I think, maybe I'm wrong, that the thing that both the above posters are telling you is that , in order to remain friends with a guy, two things would have to happen. 1) there would have to be no ambiguity in the relationship to begin with - both people would need to know going in that a sexual relationship was off the table. 2) You need to constantly ask yourself this question - in this friendship, am I providing the same level of value a guy would provide him, and am I at any point receiving value a guy would not expect. Only if you can answer yes to the first question, and yes and no to the second, can you expect to keep a male friend.

[Asker]

You make a good point. And you're probably completely right. I just still don't think it's fair how I lose people that I thought were my friends all because I don't want a romantic relationship.

[HorrorFan]

So you ultimately end up with the same result.

I understand your frustration level but you aren't really putting yourself in the other person's shoes.

Hell, I've lost two female friends that I've met on this site because they began falling for me and they ultimately realized it was never going to be more, so they moved on. I was really hurt too as I truly valued them, but I completely understood that the human heart doesn't want to continually interact with someone that you simply cannot be with.

Is there any particular reason you don't date these guys? Or that you aren't attempting to get your own boyfriend who can probably fulfill the particular role you want filled with male friends?

[Intraluminal]

If you think about it, only the first part is at all unfair. The second part is eminently fair. Even the first part is only unfair in the sense that you know ahead of time that you don't want a sexual relationship.

[Asker]

I've only ever been in one relationship. And it ended very badly... so, I guess I'm just scared to get into another one. It's silly, I know, and I should keep trying until I find the right person for me, but there it is.

But, in all honesty, guy friends are the best. They make me feel protected and happy and they're much less judgmental than most girls are. I can just be myself with them, and not have to worry about looking hot or acting a certain way because I'm trying to impress him, as I would a boyfriend.

[HorrorFan]

I get the reluctance. I suppose what you should do from now on is be very blunt and communicative with potential male friends and simply tell them right away that you are not looking for a relationship and that the only thing you are up for is regular friendship. That won't stop them from developing feelings, but at least they know the rules going in.

I totally get why women want male friends. Guys simply make better friends on average ;)

You also have to keep in mind that these guys are falling for you when you aren't trying to be hot or act different and simply being yourself. You are letting your hair down and being actual you and that is almost always an attractive trait.

[HorrorFan]

@Intraluminal Good points and additions.

[Asker]

Maybe I just need to look for a gay friend. Then I'd never have to worry about them developing feeling aha.

Maybe I sound stupid with this whole thing, but I just prefer guy friends to girl friends and it seems as if the ones I have the most in common with always end up being the ones that want more. Sometimes I even think that it might be nice to date them, but then I think of how it could end and... yeah. I just get scared of losing that friendship, and then I end up losing it anyways 😁

[HorrorFan]

Well yes, common interests spark attraction.

I think one of the best things you can do as well is just convince yourself these were never full blown friendships. That you aren't 'losing' a friend. Because honestly... they weren't your friend. That was never the position they were trying to fill. They were attempting to give you a reason to want them and since that isn't on the table, don't beat yourself up so much and feel like you've lost something.

Eventually, you'll get over the fear you've developed. You'll get a boyfriend that isn't shit and you'll be so enamored with him that you won't really care about the difficulty of developing legitimate male friendships anymore.

[Asker]

My first relationship was with a guy that I was best friends with since we were little. Now we don't even talk. Perhaps that's why I'm so timid. I'm sure I'll get over it eventually.

But right now I just want guy friends, gosh damnit haha

[Anonymous]

It's just the way most guys are, they don't understand that there is value in female friendship without sex

[HorrorFan]

We understand full well the value of female friendship. Unfortunately, the juice isn't always worth the squeeze when we have to deal with one side or the other developing feelings and complicating matters.

This gives incentive to mostly stick with male friends.

[hellionthesage]

That's stupid. Why is it that he is being an asshole? Perhaps he wanted to be more then friends and realizing that wasn't going to happen left because that is all he was interested in? He doesn't have to be friends with you if he does not want to. I would also state that it could be that realizing that he has no chance he doesn't wish to linger because he knows he has feelings and being around her will just make him realize he has no chance so instead of living in a constant state of unrequited love he moves on. This whole idea that men have these over enlarged ego's that are readily damaged is to be perfectly blunt sexist and insulting. As for friendzone, I have always considered that to be where she exploits his affections not that she want's to be friends and treats him as only a friend. Those are two different situations.

[QuestionMan]

When a guy approaches a girl, it is for one purpose to make her his girlfriend.
It takes a lot of courage to do that and to be told that the girl only wants to be friends is very hurtful when the guy is thinking about sex.
That's not to say, men and women can't be friends, they can but only if neither of them is physically attracted to the other or if they are able to form a close relationship in spite of one person's attraction to the other.

Most of my female friends I wouldn't sleep with. Only one of them I allowed my self to be friendzoned by but she's a special cases and really opened my eyes to what I should look for in a girlfriend.

[Asker]

He wants to sleep with me, I really want to be friends. It seems as if nobody can win...

[QuestionMan]

Why not date him?

[Asker]

Because I don't want a relationship. I don't want to have to worry about looking hot all of the time. I just want a friend that I can pull my hair up into a messy bun and wear sweatpants around, ya know?

[QuestionMan]

You can always dress however you like. I guess don't try as hard to look good and maybe guys will see you as more of a friend.
I'm guessing you're really attractive that's why this happens.

[Asker]

Oh, okay, so you're telling me that I need to be ugly in order for them to see me as a friend?

[QuestionMan]

Not necessarily "ugly", just don't put on as much make up or try as hard to look good.
Be natural.

[Asker]

Usually I don't really even try. Maybe I should just start eating really smelly foods before we hang out so my breath smells. If my breath smells, they will be like "ew" and start to think I'm not kissable. Wallah.

[QuestionMan]

No don't be repulsive, then no one will want to be near you.
Just dress however you want but nothing too fancy.
Don't flirt and if necessary pretend you have a boyfriend.

[curiousguy89]

Honestly most guys. aren't really. trying. to be friends with girls just being honest im. not saying guys can't be friends. with girls. but if thwy feel attraxted to you they just can't or won't be your friend and will disappear

[Asker]

I just don't think that's fair.

[curiousguy89]

Hey i get it! And its not fare but thats how guys are most guys im kool with may have 1 or 2 friends that are girls but they say they are on only friends with them becouse they are not attracted to them, theyve also said that if would be rediculouslsly hard to be a girls friend if she's attractive,

[BubbleBoy69]

It is perfectly fair. If you wanted X and someone said no and gave you Y. You have every right to not want their Y.

Men shouldn't settle.

[Asker]

@BubbleBoy69 I'm not asking them to settle. I don't want a relationship. I want them to see me as a friend. They can go out and get a girlfriend and I totally wouldn't care.

[BubbleBoy69]

That's the point. Look at my statement.

X- Romantic Relationship

Y- Platonic friendship

[palek]

As you have just exemplified, an innate sexual tension exists between men and women. They were not designed for mere friendship. You'd do best to find other women to engage as friends. Only then will your frustration end.

[Anonymous]

Yeah your info isn't really that new. If a guy meets a girl and want to hangout with her all the time then he probably likes her and wants a relationship. Besides most women make shitty friends so why would guys want another female friend?

[Asker]

Saying that "most women make shitty friends" is a very broad statement. How many women have you been friends with?

[Opinion Owner]

It's pretty much a thing well know to most that women do not make good friends. Hence, why we got girls themselves who want no female friends at all and prefer male friends.

Women and male friendship tend to be heavily one sided relationships a lot of the time in the woman's favor.

[Opinion Owner]

And i have a lot of female friends can't really count how many off the top of my head.

[Asker]

Okay, you make a valid point, I'll give you that. However, why do guys just drop you once they see you only want friendship? Is it because you view women as objects to be possessed rather than equals?

[Asker]

And would you say that those women make "shitty" friends?

[Opinion Owner]

No because as girl writes what who had a similar experience but in reverse.

No guy wants to constantly be interacting with the person who they got rejected by. It just a sucky feeling and if a guy wants a relationship and gets friendship then he has every right to not take the consolation prize and move on.

You can start watching at 2:27

https://youtu.be/a9XDb0nxSO4

She basically shuts down all feminist arguments (one you address of men seeing women as objects was brought up) on why men should be happy with friendship when they wanted relationships.

[Opinion Owner]

Women who friend zone guys tend to make shitty friends. Yes. Usually guy goes out of his way and goes beyond what a normal friend would do. Yet, women tends to not even do nearly 1/2 of that in return and use these men for validation, and special favors. Relationship tends to be heavily one sided. Watch the video she (GRW) talks about it in her life with respect to a young man and Jane.

[serious]

Well, it's beautifully written, you're right with that. However this should be your mytake instead of a normal post.

[brain5000]

Yes. Why isn't this a myTake?

[Asker]

I don't know. I've never made one before. I probably should have made it one, but it's too late to change it now.

[Intraluminal]

No. You could totally do a MyTake. Just do a lot of copy and paste.

[Intraluminal]

Makes sense to me.

[Asker]

Thank you!