Dating Outside of your League

[kaylaS91]

Let’s say someone’s dating a NOT-CRAZY girl who just so happens to be a full-time lingerie model. Sounds very out of your league right?

WRONG.

Being with someone who would to most classify as ‘out of your league’ is very much balancing towards the fake-it-till-you-make-it feeling of a "league" instead of considering that yes there are certain people who are just astoundingly beautiful.

People have "social spheres", which have a lot more to do with personality and who you know, influence, and interact with rather than straight up appearance. Physical appearance obviously plays a role in what your social sphere is like and size, but there is a lot of variability to how much affect it really has (some very little, some have social spheres almost entirely built on artifice). In real world dating, familiarity and proximity tend to really be the best predictors of romantic success.

Of course bringing online dating into the mix changes the dynamic, so if "leagues" really do exist it's only in the context of metric-based meat market style scenarios suck as dating sites. Sure it may happen in that context, but you can't apply it to all approaches of finding a partner.

Remember, no pedestal bullshit.

If you put someone on a pedestal, they're forced to look down on you.

She's only human, just like you or I. If you're too scared to make a move, imagine her taking a smelly dump. Then ask.

---

Girls are humans, no matter their profession or appearance.

The "average guy" just needs to get out of his head and ask that gorgeous woman out. The difference between average and above is much more about initiative than any other quality. By not approaching someone because you deem them to be too far ‘out of your league’, you’re digging your own grave.

Average is the the norm. There are few that stray from the norm.

[AleDeEurope]

The pedestal thing, totally right. Men gotta stop putting women on a pedestal, they're devaluing themselves, and making those women more conceited and bitchy, of course she's not gonna choose you. A queen never marries a peasant.

[Goldie757]

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[kaylaS91]

lol thankyou. :P

[TheSpartan]

The problem with your analysis is that it equates leagues with physical attractiveness levels. In other words, you seem to erroneously imply that the only trait of any importance in determining what "league" your in is how hot you are. That's not the case.

The proposition that is most likely is that leagues do exist, but that there are a number of factors that determine what league your in. For women, these could be facial attractiveness, fitness, waist-to-hip ratio, how nice and caring one is, charm, etc. For men, these could be musculature, facial structure, charm, sense of humor, confidence, presence, social status, wealth, etc.

Thus, even though it may appear that a gorgeous woman is dating "lower" or outside her league when her boyfriend is an average or even homely man, what's more likely to be the case is that he's put himself in her league through factors not relating to physical attractiveness.

In short, leagues exist, but they have to do with more factors than just looks.

[Transigence]

Perfect. Except you mention social status last, and you left out height and color.

[kaylaS91]

yes perhaps. However, I've never heard anyone say a girl or guy is out of their league for reasons other than physical appearance. That, as well as popularity, though that often goes hand in hand with attractiveness.

[Riggers]

''The "average guy" just needs to get out of his head and ask that gorgeous woman out''

Why? To give the ''gorgeous woman'' a quick ego boost followed by prompt rejection? Hahaha, Im getting sick of all this lefty ''were all special fuckers'' bullshit on this site haha.

No ''Gorgeous woman'' will ever date a ''average guy''. Just as no uber handsome guy will ever date a ''average girl'', This is real life, Not some shitty disney fairy tail, Leagues exist and if your not hot your about as much use in life as a wet towel, Lets just fuckin accept it as a society already, God damn...

[kaylaS91]

not true. Maybe true at your age, but as you get older, you'll see more and more dimes with average joes, and major adonis' with plain janes.
If you're not hot and choose to believe in these leagues working against you, you're digging your own grave.

[Riggers]

Unfortunately take owner, If your not hot, Its the social order of things that dig your grave.

Lets be real here, Imagine an ugly person, There is a pretty high to guranteed chance they got bullied in school, Never had many if any friends, They live alone, And likely die alone.

Now if your hot, Your in that ''Popular group'' that every year has in school (Ever noticed they are all uber hot btw?). Your likely gonna fuck more people in a week then you have fingers to count, You will spend your entire life surrounded by friends and admirers and die with a loving family.

See the difference? Tell me that shit isn't true... You can't...

Looks are single most important factor in a human beings life. If you are ugly, You quite literally have no value as a human being, Why do you think the vast majority of suicide victims aren't exactly attractive? Because they realise the shit life they have ahead

Hell, Even im ugly and dislike being around ugly people.. Even uglies dislike uglies xD

[kaylaS91]

yes I see the difference in theory. In reality, it's not quite that simple.
In high school, you could have called m the 'hot girl'. Tall, blonde, big boobs, the whole 9 yards. I was popular throughout most of it. Till something in my personal life happened and I realized I had been just putting on a facade the whole time. Lost any patience to remain in that clique any longer.
My appearance stayed the same, I simply stopped going to every party, and if I did, I wouldn't get white-girl wasted and such.

They dropped me like a hot potato. My looks alone didn't suffice, neither socially nor in getting me quite as much male interest, as those two go pretty hand in hand.

[Riggers]

Your missing the point, That the reason you were in that ''clique'' was because you were hot shit, You had the oppurtunity to go to lots of parties, Get lots of opposite sex attention etc.

No ugly person gets those same chances you gave up.

I mean, Clearly from your self description you must be pretty attractive ( I have no idea so ill just take your word for it ), So, To try and explain my point to you would be like a Nigerian trying to explain the issues of starvation to an American. Sure you could hear them out, But you would never truly understand.

Your hot, So, You have never had to deal with ugly person problems, And likely never will.

Being ugly, Means you dont get friends, It means to you never date, It means you get turned down for jobs more often. (Noone wants ugly staff)

These are things you won't have to go through. So to make a take about leagues, When YOU are the one who is out of the leagues, Well... Ofcourse its not a problem for you. but yes to others it will.

[kaylaS91]

oh my. I must have missed the invite to your pity party.

[Riggers]

Alright, No need to make a dick comment?

But, yeah, You never did get invited to a pity party, You werent ugly enough.

[kaylaS91]

oh my, get over yourself.

[Riggers]

Haha, Wtf do you mean get overmyself ?

I've just sat here and wasted time calling you hot shit and at the same time insulting myself,

God damn lady.

[ccp16]

Its funny because I have a few female friends who go out of their way to try and attract average looking guys, but they are too shy or won't bother because of how attractive these girls are... they like the average looking guys because the ones who have the confidence to actually approach them, tend to be gym rates, jerks or players- all attractive, but just the type of guy who thinks he is in the same league as these girls, so hence he deserves them.

So basically, ever since I found this out I have no problem asking girls out 'out of my league' and it is successful for me even though I am a very average, dad-bod type of guy. I just treat them better, not like a nice guy/push over- but as an equal, and not some trophy.

[Goldie757]

vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/.../latest

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[ElvenMr]

Cool. I wonder, what those girls do to attract "average" looking guys?

[ccp16]

@Goldie757 thanks!

@ElvenMr The two I really know are just much more obvious in their flirting, but they still want the guy to take the first step and ask them out... but you would be surprised how obvious they make it they want to be asked out, but guys will won't do it because of this whole league thing.

[kaylaS91]

@ElvenMr What does it take for a gorgeous girl to attract an 'average' looking guy? Just as much as it takes to attract a really attractive guy. It's not like they're any different inside, we all bleed the same. If anyone requites any special approach to get their interest, they've obviously got huge issues with superiority and you're better off without 'em anyway. :P

[Mesonfielde]

""not like a nice guy/push over- but as an equal, and not some trophy.""

Ah, that is the truth - that many people don't understand

[udolipixie]

I find hetero dating out of one's league only/mainly exists for males. For males leagues only seem to exist when rating gals but when it comes to pursuing gals there is no such thing as out of his league or she is shallow/stuck up/etc.

While for gals it seems they are rated in leagues and tend to only/mainly have the option to date guys less attractive than themselves. In my observations the more attractive guy/less attractive gal coupling tends to be a result of the gal being more or equally attractive than losing her looks.

LMFAO @ the notion of males putting gals on pedestals. In my observations males put youth, beauty, and sex on a pedestal their seems to be a male general dislike of gals not pedestalizing ie gals are shallow, stuck up, too stupid for not f*cking/dating him, etc.

[kaylaS91]

yeah there is a recent dislike in men of how shallow girls have seemingly become but.. they still continue to enable that beahviour by putting sex on a pedestal and all. The more girls know guys want some pussy, the higher on the pedestal they feel. Kinda ironic!

[udolipixie]

Yep on the enabling behavior part.

Though I find when males complain about gals being shallow they tend to mean 'that more attractive gal is shallow for not considering me because I am unattractive yet I want her because she is attractive'.

It is odd to me how many will call a hot gal shallow for rejecting an ugly/average guy... yet it seems none question the male's shallowness for pursuing a hot gal. Then again it seems the norm that female behavior is only criticized and males get passes.

[tyber1]

It's game theory. People in general are happy to allow an overall less desirable outcome if it makes their own outcome better. If guys stop chasing sex, women in general would behave better but then those guys wouldn't get as much sex as the people who kept chasing it.

[udolipixie]

@tyber1
Different views. In my opinion it is not a game theory as gals are not misbehaving for them to warrant behaving better.

I find the issue is gals not behaving how males want them to. As in more attractive gals not considering less attractive guys.

[tyber1]

You're splitting hairs, my point is that it is in a man's best interest to focus on sex.

[udolipixie]

@tyber1
Your point seems quite irrelevant to my post.

How is "it is in a man's best interest to focus on sex" relevant to my view that dating out of one's league is mainly/only for males and male complaints about female shallowness is hypocriticial and dubious?

[tyber1]

You were talking about how men enable women by putting sex on a pedestal, I'm saying it is in their best interest to do so.

[udolipixie]

@tyber1
Actually that was the Asker. I didn't state men were enabling women. My agreement was pedestalizing sex enables male male hypocrisy about shallowness. Perhaps try messaging the Asker.

[tyber1]

Oh you're right. My bad.

[udolipixie]

@tyber1
No problem.

[gunny007]

That's a nice discussion!!

[TheBootyChest]

I have struggled with feeling like ladies are out of my league. It has to do with looks, mine versus theirs. I know I am not the catch of the day and probably a lot of ladies don't want their picture taken with me.
I also think it has to do with me being so desperate to have a girlfriend that I eventually put them on a pedestal and make it even harder for me to see myself on their level. She doesn't even have to be supermodel beautiful and I will still get nervous and too shy to talk to her.

Aside from my venting, I thought you did (yet again) a fabulous myTake. I can't wait to see your next one.

[JustinX9]

We are just the same

[ItsMe007]

This out of my league is such crap. Has anyone seen a ugly looking dude with a really hot women. I sure have. Women love confidence, that simple. When you can go up to a women in the mall, the store, anywhere really and tell her whats on your mind, one she will have a lot of respect for you if you said to she looks absolutely incredible. Second you might get her on a date simply cause you grabbed your balls and told her how you really felt. Women want a MAN not a boy.

[EnglishArtsteacher]

Nah, it's more about money than anything dude.

I agree it has nothing to do with looks though (for men that is).

[ManuelMarquez]

The reason most average and below average looking males and females do the''out of my league'' thing because it is realistic. Most attractive males and females only date other attractive males and females. I said most not all. Yes there are attractive males and attractive females that are ok with dating average or below average looking people, but they are not in the majority. So because of this average and below average looking people tend to go after other people they have a higher chance with.

[EnglishArtsteacher]

The problem with your theory, your definition of "attractive" is subjective. I've seen plenty of guys who look ugly and date good looking girls, in MY opinion.

Guys are judged more on how much money they make.

[ManuelMarquez]

@EnglishArtsteacher you don't have to go PC on me. Yes looks are subjective but you know when I say attractive I mean considered attractive by a HUGE percentage of people. Also, you may have seen plenty but I am sure you still see more attractive women with good looking guys.

[ManuelMarquez]

@kaylaS91 and just because a person thinks someone is out of their league doesn't mean they haven't asked out a person out of their league in the past. Like I said in my last message the reason most average and below average looking people stay in their league because that is realistic. I have known plenty of average looking and below average looking guys that have asked out plenty of attractive women that they knew well. Guess what happened? They got rejected every single time. So now they stick to their own league. People stick to their own league cause of experience, cause they know other people that have had bad luck every single time, or because they are just being realistic. I am referring to your,''the average guy should just ask the gorgeous woman out'' part in your Mytake is not true all the time cause like I said plenty of non good looking people ask out good looking people and the result most of the time is not good.

[EnglishArtsteacher]

@ManuelMarquez I wasn't being politically correct, just factual.

Only a TINY percentage of the population falls into this definition of attractive where virtually everyone finds them attractive.

[ManuelMarquez]

@EnglishArtsteacher you know by good looking I mean Megan Fox, George Clooney, etc. even though they aren't considered good looking by everyone they are considered good looking by a huge percentage. You know what I am saying is right.

[ManuelMarquez]

KaylaS91 can't handle the truth in what I am saying.

[kaylaS91]

or maybe I've got little to no patience for people like yourself who go around throwing a pity party for themselves 24/7.

[ManuelMarquez]

@kaylaS91 it is not a pity party is it is reality. So basically that means most average and below average looking men and women throw pity parties since most stick in their league? You are ignorant.

[kaylaS91]

ahhaah you're hilarious. Reality is whatever you make of the situation. I recognize you from countless posts asking people to confirm the conclusion that you're already come to, that you're ugly. Stop associating yourself with 'average' and 'below average' males.

[ManuelMarquez]

@kaylaS91 those posts were a long time ago. And fine then, I am hot and sexy. What do you think about me just saying that?

[ManuelMarquez]

@kaylaS91 how would you feel if I thought that, even though I don't?

[kaylaS91]

I wouldn't feel anything because I don't know you. I'd take it for what it is.

[BigJake]

You're totally right, great take! I used to limit myself on the girls I'd ask out because I thought so many of them were out of my league. I did this until I realized that girls evaluate guys so much differently than we evaluate them. I'm not the most attractive guy facially, but I have a lot going for me (size, sense of humor) that is attractive to lots of girls, including some absolute hotties. Now I consistently date girls that other guys consider to be out of my league. It's just that I have the balls to approach and ask out, and they don't, so they never give themselves the chance for a girl to like them. Hot girls are just people, but the put them on a pedestal, which makes it impossible for the girl to ever respect the guy.

[bloodmountain1990]

Great take, you beat me to it lol. Personally I hate the phrase, she's out of my league. It's a very defeatist statement and you put yourself down when you say that.

I mean of course appearance matters somewhat, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One person may find you attractive while another may not. What I think it comes down to in the end is if you two are a match. For example, I'm more likely to a cute girl that has similar interests as opposed to a cute girl who has nothing in common. And I've dated some very cute girls with obscure interests like me so you never know.

[bloodmountain1990]

more likely to approach*

[bloodmountain1990]

I don't even say that I'm out of a girl's league for one who likes me that I don't find physically attractive. I just don't find them physically attractive and that's that. No need to be cocky about it.

[ConsultantIsBack]

There's no such thing as a woman out of my league. Well, unless she's a famous celebrity.

[TheSpartan]

And that's the attitude you've gotta have.

[ConsultantIsBack]

@TheSpartan ya man *fist bump*

[Roostah]

Do you consider Instagram models with over 1 million followers celebrities?

[ConsultantIsBack]

@Roostah that's a very good question man.. But no I don't think so. I'm talking like Hollywood/Grammy's/magazine cover famous for the most part.

[Transigence]

@Roostah There's a new concept out now, "internet famous," which is what that sounds like.
Any joe can go get himself 30,000 followers on YouTube if you have a little something to say and you don't fuck up people's speakers or ears. 1,000,000 followers is really a lot for "internet famous," but if the institutional media hasn't picked her up, I would say she's VERY internet famous, but not a "famous celebrity."

[Transigence]

But then, I don't know if 1 follower on YouTube really is comparable to a follower on Instagram. If 10 instagram followers was about as hard to get as 1 youtube follower, then she's definitely just "internet famous."

[ConsultantIsBack]

@Transigence totally true. Like Instagram models

[GreatnessPersonified]

I've dated them too.

[Thames]

I agree with your entire mytake especially the part about "social spheres" and I really like this sentence, "Girls are humans, no matter their profession or appearance" because it is true.

[martyfellow]

Leagues are very real, but relate more to social status than physical attractiveness. A full time lingerie model is no doubt not just attractive, but has social connections, money for clothes styling advice, is well-spoken, confident..

All that relates mostly to the social level she comes from, though, of course, not always, not 100%

And a girl from a higher social status is rarely interested in anyone from a lower status... male or female.

[canadianLAD]

actually, a gorgeous model lady isn't much aside from her looks until she meets her rich man.

models make shit money and most hot girls are underdeveloped and dumb from men always bending their back to make it easier for them

society values them more than men who dated them.

after you have sex with them for a while, they get moring and you realize you're tired of this shit and want someone practical and someoen that understands him.(aka someone who didn't have it so easy/previledged

[kaylaS91]

... actually, that's exactly what I said in my take if you would have bothered to read it before commenting.

[canadianLAD]

i hate reading essays on here lol ussually i read the first few and guess the rest. i guess were on the same page but i speak from experience of dating a couple of them... model looking chicks are same.

i use to only care for hot chicks and now, i m growing this skepticism from almost except one being messed in the head one way or another. i know we all got issues but theres' is something you can't live with. narcissistic people dont often suffer themselves, they kill the souls of those around them.

i think this is why its common men try to date the hot chicks to show off and to feel good then realise how things are and date the well rouunded chick who is trustworthy.

[kaylaS91]

I broke it into little snippets for people like you. You're free to date whoever you want, I guess what I wrote is more applicable to people who complain that they can't get the 'super hot chick in their grade' yet they don't even have the balls to approach her because they think her looks put her out of their league.

[canadianLAD]

oh thanks i appreciate it! lolol

yah i hear you. little do they know it becomes like whatever very soon

outer beauty without inner beauty is a curse.

[TadCurious]

Personally I think it's healthy for guys to think about girls taking a poop, 'cause it means you accept them as just regular human beings. (As opposed to the irregular kind. lol)

[kaylaS91]

yeah of course. Any guy who thinks girls don't poop or anything of that sort is not quite ready to be in a relationship in the first place. :P

[lanternhill]

Even when I felt unattractive I never thought anyone was out of my league. It's not arrogance, I just didn't. Well, once. But he ended up pursuing me so I got over that idea.

I just don't think in terms of leagues.

[genuinlysensitive]

I was never into the whole league thing either. I'm just really shy :(

[Ulyss]

Lol this is so true this needs to be spread out to the many self loathing guys

[OfAfricandescent]

'She's only human, just like you or I. If you're too scared to make a move, imagine her taking a smelly dump. Then ask'
Ha ha! I wouldn't imagine them taking a dump, but I agree that you shouldn't put women on a pedestal.

[kaylaS91]

yeeeah extreme example but just trying to stress the point a bit. :P

[Dan2287]

It actually has helped me. I try and picture them doing something very disgusting/unattractive or picturing them with a shaved head, no makeup etc and then all of a sudden I see they are just human and not really above me

[Anonymous]

the guy i love is out of my league because he is VERY popular in my town, he's successful, has money, and his own company,... while me, i have no job i'm broke and i'm just plain basic he can get better looking females any time... the only good thing about me is that im a virgin with high self respect and im not a female who's been passed around like most of the females he sleeps with

[kaylaS91]

he's out of your league because you put him there. Also, bring a virgin is not necessarily a 'good thing'. I'm not a virgin, doesn't mean I lack self-respect.

[Opinion Owner]

i believe being a virgin is a good thing especially if it's one's choice... not that im against non- virgin females but i feel cleaner

[kaylaS91]

ok I suppose that's your prerogative to feel like that about your sexuality but did you ever think about how you'll feel when you've finally lost your virginity? Pretty shitty, I'd imagine. After having put so much of your value and self-worth in something that has not such a glorious and 'pure' past in society.

[Opinion Owner]

i wouldn't feel dirty cause im waiting till marriage so i wouldn't have sex either way till im married

[Anonymous]

There's no such existence as a league when it comes to dating. Either you want the girl or you don't. Either you want the guy or you don't. No human being is better than me. None. Anyone who thinks they are better than me deserves an uppercut.

[kaylaS91]

lol yes, exactly my point. It's a fictitious creation of society that in the end, will ironically enough prevent many people from approaching others because they'll see this league thing as a reality.

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah it's just an excuse. When we get nervous our brains find ways to rationalize an escape plan. I've seen intimidatingly hot girls before and when I got to know them they never felt like they were "too good for me" or anything. They just wanted to be treated like any other human being.