Dating Outside of your League

kaylaS91

Let’s say someone’s dating a NOT-CRAZY girl who just so happens to be a full-time lingerie model. Sounds very out of your league right?

WRONG.

Being with someone who would to most classify as ‘out of your league’ is very much balancing towards the fake-it-till-you-make-it feeling of a "league" instead of considering that yes there are certain people who are just astoundingly beautiful.

People have "social spheres", which have a lot more to do with personality and who you know, influence, and interact with rather than straight up appearance. Physical appearance obviously plays a role in what your social sphere is like and size, but there is a lot of variability to how much affect it really has (some very little, some have social spheres almost entirely built on artifice). In real world dating, familiarity and proximity tend to really be the best predictors of romantic success.

Dating Outside of your League

Of course bringing online dating into the mix changes the dynamic, so if "leagues" really do exist it's only in the context of metric-based meat market style scenarios suck as dating sites. Sure it may happen in that context, but you can't apply it to all approaches of finding a partner.

Remember, no pedestal bullshit.

Dating Outside of your League

If you put someone on a pedestal, they're forced to look down on you.

She's only human, just like you or I. If you're too scared to make a move, imagine her taking a smelly dump. Then ask.


Girls are humans, no matter their profession or appearance.

The "average guy" just needs to get out of his head and ask that gorgeous woman out. The difference between average and above is much more about initiative than any other quality. By not approaching someone because you deem them to be too far ‘out of your league’, you’re digging your own grave.

Dating Outside of your League

Average is the the norm. There are few that stray from the norm.

Dating Outside of your League
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Most Helpful Guy

  • AleDeEurope
    The pedestal thing, totally right. Men gotta stop putting women on a pedestal, they're devaluing themselves, and making those women more conceited and bitchy, of course she's not gonna choose you. A queen never marries a peasant.
    Is this still revelant?

Most Helpful Girl

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What Girls & Guys Said

846
  • TheSpartan
    The problem with your analysis is that it equates leagues with physical attractiveness levels. In other words, you seem to erroneously imply that the only trait of any importance in determining what "league" your in is how hot you are. That's not the case.

    The proposition that is most likely is that leagues do exist, but that there are a number of factors that determine what league your in. For women, these could be facial attractiveness, fitness, waist-to-hip ratio, how nice and caring one is, charm, etc. For men, these could be musculature, facial structure, charm, sense of humor, confidence, presence, social status, wealth, etc.

    Thus, even though it may appear that a gorgeous woman is dating "lower" or outside her league when her boyfriend is an average or even homely man, what's more likely to be the case is that he's put himself in her league through factors not relating to physical attractiveness.

    In short, leagues exist, but they have to do with more factors than just looks.
    • Perfect. Except you mention social status last, and you left out height and color.

    • kaylaS91

      yes perhaps. However, I've never heard anyone say a girl or guy is out of their league for reasons other than physical appearance. That, as well as popularity, though that often goes hand in hand with attractiveness.

  • ItsMe007
    This out of my league is such crap. Has anyone seen a ugly looking dude with a really hot women. I sure have. Women love confidence, that simple. When you can go up to a women in the mall, the store, anywhere really and tell her whats on your mind, one she will have a lot of respect for you if you said to she looks absolutely incredible. Second you might get her on a date simply cause you grabbed your balls and told her how you really felt. Women want a MAN not a boy.
    • Nah, it's more about money than anything dude.

      I agree it has nothing to do with looks though (for men that is).

  • Riggers
    ''The "average guy" just needs to get out of his head and ask that gorgeous woman out''

    Why? To give the ''gorgeous woman'' a quick ego boost followed by prompt rejection? Hahaha, Im getting sick of all this lefty ''were all special fuckers'' bullshit on this site haha.

    No ''Gorgeous woman'' will ever date a ''average guy''. Just as no uber handsome guy will ever date a ''average girl'', This is real life, Not some shitty disney fairy tail, Leagues exist and if your not hot your about as much use in life as a wet towel, Lets just fuckin accept it as a society already, God damn...
    • kaylaS91

      not true. Maybe true at your age, but as you get older, you'll see more and more dimes with average joes, and major adonis' with plain janes.
      If you're not hot and choose to believe in these leagues working against you, you're digging your own grave.

    • Riggers

      Unfortunately take owner, If your not hot, Its the social order of things that dig your grave.

      Lets be real here, Imagine an ugly person, There is a pretty high to guranteed chance they got bullied in school, Never had many if any friends, They live alone, And likely die alone.

      Now if your hot, Your in that ''Popular group'' that every year has in school (Ever noticed they are all uber hot btw?). Your likely gonna fuck more people in a week then you have fingers to count, You will spend your entire life surrounded by friends and admirers and die with a loving family.

      See the difference? Tell me that shit isn't true... You can't...

      Looks are single most important factor in a human beings life. If you are ugly, You quite literally have no value as a human being, Why do you think the vast majority of suicide victims aren't exactly attractive? Because they realise the shit life they have ahead

      Hell, Even im ugly and dislike being around ugly people.. Even uglies dislike uglies xD

    • kaylaS91

      yes I see the difference in theory. In reality, it's not quite that simple.
      In high school, you could have called m the 'hot girl'. Tall, blonde, big boobs, the whole 9 yards. I was popular throughout most of it. Till something in my personal life happened and I realized I had been just putting on a facade the whole time. Lost any patience to remain in that clique any longer.
      My appearance stayed the same, I simply stopped going to every party, and if I did, I wouldn't get white-girl wasted and such.

      They dropped me like a hot potato. My looks alone didn't suffice, neither socially nor in getting me quite as much male interest, as those two go pretty hand in hand.

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  • TadCurious
    Personally I think it's healthy for guys to think about girls taking a poop, 'cause it means you accept them as just regular human beings. (As opposed to the irregular kind. lol)
    • kaylaS91

      yeah of course. Any guy who thinks girls don't poop or anything of that sort is not quite ready to be in a relationship in the first place. :P

  • ccp16
    Its funny because I have a few female friends who go out of their way to try and attract average looking guys, but they are too shy or won't bother because of how attractive these girls are... they like the average looking guys because the ones who have the confidence to actually approach them, tend to be gym rates, jerks or players- all attractive, but just the type of guy who thinks he is in the same league as these girls, so hence he deserves them.

    So basically, ever since I found this out I have no problem asking girls out 'out of my league' and it is successful for me even though I am a very average, dad-bod type of guy. I just treat them better, not like a nice guy/push over- but as an equal, and not some trophy.
    • ElvenMr

      Cool. I wonder, what those girls do to attract "average" looking guys?

    • ccp16

      @Goldie757 thanks!

      @ElvenMr The two I really know are just much more obvious in their flirting, but they still want the guy to take the first step and ask them out... but you would be surprised how obvious they make it they want to be asked out, but guys will won't do it because of this whole league thing.

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  • Mesonfielde
    Do "leagues" even exist? or is that just a way for conceited narcissists to boost their ego?

    The world will never know.
    • Kirah

      I think it's the latter.

    • @Kirah I trust your judgement :D

    • kaylaS91

      @Kirah I only ever hear someone saying people are 'out of their league' though, when it's someone who feels as if they are unattractive by society's ideals. That this reason alone makes them by default doomed to be rejected by anyone and everyone, specifically blaming people who are definitely attractive, popular, or very socially adept think they are 'too good' for them. Instead of thinking that maybe there's simply no chemistry or that they themselves are lacking something not necessarily physical.

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  • ConsultantIsBack
    There's no such thing as a woman out of my league. Well, unless she's a famous celebrity.
    • TheSpartan

      And that's the attitude you've gotta have.

    • @TheSpartan ya man *fist bump*

    • Roostah

      Do you consider Instagram models with over 1 million followers celebrities?

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  • lanternhill
    Even when I felt unattractive I never thought anyone was out of my league. It's not arrogance, I just didn't. Well, once. But he ended up pursuing me so I got over that idea.

    I just don't think in terms of leagues.
  • Thames
    I agree with your entire mytake especially the part about "social spheres" and I really like this sentence, "Girls are humans, no matter their profession or appearance" because it is true.
  • udolipixie
    I find hetero dating out of one's league only/mainly exists for males. For males leagues only seem to exist when rating gals but when it comes to pursuing gals there is no such thing as out of his league or she is shallow/stuck up/etc.

    While for gals it seems they are rated in leagues and tend to only/mainly have the option to date guys less attractive than themselves. In my observations the more attractive guy/less attractive gal coupling tends to be a result of the gal being more or equally attractive than losing her looks.

    LMFAO @ the notion of males putting gals on pedestals. In my observations males put youth, beauty, and sex on a pedestal their seems to be a male general dislike of gals not pedestalizing ie gals are shallow, stuck up, too stupid for not f*cking/dating him, etc.
    • kaylaS91

      yeah there is a recent dislike in men of how shallow girls have seemingly become but.. they still continue to enable that beahviour by putting sex on a pedestal and all. The more girls know guys want some pussy, the higher on the pedestal they feel. Kinda ironic!

    • udolipixie

      Yep on the enabling behavior part.

      Though I find when males complain about gals being shallow they tend to mean 'that more attractive gal is shallow for not considering me because I am unattractive yet I want her because she is attractive'.

      It is odd to me how many will call a hot gal shallow for rejecting an ugly/average guy... yet it seems none question the male's shallowness for pursuing a hot gal. Then again it seems the norm that female behavior is only criticized and males get passes.

    • tyber1

      It's game theory. People in general are happy to allow an overall less desirable outcome if it makes their own outcome better. If guys stop chasing sex, women in general would behave better but then those guys wouldn't get as much sex as the people who kept chasing it.

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  • SakuraChii
    I thought you were going to talk about both genders
    • kaylaS91

      I've only heard it in reverse, about a guy being out of a girls league, a handful of times. It would be a bit much to have to add he/she, him/her, boyfriend/girlfriend, etc.. The general idea applies pretty much the same to both.

  • martyfellow
    Leagues are very real, but relate more to social status than physical attractiveness. A full time lingerie model is no doubt not just attractive, but has social connections, money for clothes styling advice, is well-spoken, confident..

    All that relates mostly to the social level she comes from, though, of course, not always, not 100%

    And a girl from a higher social status is rarely interested in anyone from a lower status... male or female.
  • imnotcrearive
    2nd mytake from you I agree with. That's rare. But yeah I definetly am on the same page. Except for tinder though. There is such thing as "out of your league on there". Cause it's a superficial app and you're only as good as your worst picture.
  • flirtygirl247
    I think that we as human beings cannot define the word "normal". Being "out of someone's league" is merely a saying. We can't help who we like sometimes and it shouldn't matter if one person is more attractive than the other
  • OfAfricandescent
    'She's only human, just like you or I. If you're too scared to make a move, imagine her taking a smelly dump. Then ask'
    Ha ha! I wouldn't imagine them taking a dump, but I agree that you shouldn't put women on a pedestal.
    • kaylaS91

      yeeeah extreme example but just trying to stress the point a bit. :P

    • Dan2287

      It actually has helped me. I try and picture them doing something very disgusting/unattractive or picturing them with a shaved head, no makeup etc and then all of a sudden I see they are just human and not really above me

  • ManuelMarquez
    The reason most average and below average looking males and females do the''out of my league'' thing because it is realistic. Most attractive males and females only date other attractive males and females. I said most not all. Yes there are attractive males and attractive females that are ok with dating average or below average looking people, but they are not in the majority. So because of this average and below average looking people tend to go after other people they have a higher chance with.
    • The problem with your theory, your definition of "attractive" is subjective. I've seen plenty of guys who look ugly and date good looking girls, in MY opinion.

      Guys are judged more on how much money they make.

    • @EnglishArtsteacher you don't have to go PC on me. Yes looks are subjective but you know when I say attractive I mean considered attractive by a HUGE percentage of people. Also, you may have seen plenty but I am sure you still see more attractive women with good looking guys.

    • @kaylaS91 and just because a person thinks someone is out of their league doesn't mean they haven't asked out a person out of their league in the past. Like I said in my last message the reason most average and below average looking people stay in their league because that is realistic. I have known plenty of average looking and below average looking guys that have asked out plenty of attractive women that they knew well. Guess what happened? They got rejected every single time. So now they stick to their own league. People stick to their own league cause of experience, cause they know other people that have had bad luck every single time, or because they are just being realistic. I am referring to your,''the average guy should just ask the gorgeous woman out'' part in your Mytake is not true all the time cause like I said plenty of non good looking people ask out good looking people and the result most of the time is not good.

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  • genuinlysensitive
    I was never into the whole league thing either. I'm just really shy :(
  • canadianLAD
    actually, a gorgeous model lady isn't much aside from her looks until she meets her rich man.

    models make shit money and most hot girls are underdeveloped and dumb from men always bending their back to make it easier for them

    society values them more than men who dated them.

    after you have sex with them for a while, they get moring and you realize you're tired of this shit and want someone practical and someoen that understands him.(aka someone who didn't have it so easy/previledged
    • kaylaS91

      ... actually, that's exactly what I said in my take if you would have bothered to read it before commenting.

    • i hate reading essays on here lol ussually i read the first few and guess the rest. i guess were on the same page but i speak from experience of dating a couple of them... model looking chicks are same.

      i use to only care for hot chicks and now, i m growing this skepticism from almost except one being messed in the head one way or another. i know we all got issues but theres' is something you can't live with. narcissistic people dont often suffer themselves, they kill the souls of those around them.

      i think this is why its common men try to date the hot chicks to show off and to feel good then realise how things are and date the well rouunded chick who is trustworthy.

    • kaylaS91

      I broke it into little snippets for people like you. You're free to date whoever you want, I guess what I wrote is more applicable to people who complain that they can't get the 'super hot chick in their grade' yet they don't even have the balls to approach her because they think her looks put her out of their league.

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  • Ulyss
    Lol this is so true this needs to be spread out to the many self loathing guys
  • TheBootyChest
    I have struggled with feeling like ladies are out of my league. It has to do with looks, mine versus theirs. I know I am not the catch of the day and probably a lot of ladies don't want their picture taken with me.
    I also think it has to do with me being so desperate to have a girlfriend that I eventually put them on a pedestal and make it even harder for me to see myself on their level. She doesn't even have to be supermodel beautiful and I will still get nervous and too shy to talk to her.

    Aside from my venting, I thought you did (yet again) a fabulous myTake. I can't wait to see your next one.
  • Prilee1992
    At the end of the day, pre-selection is up to women to decide. Attraction is not a choice.
  • DarkHumorRUs
    But the proverbial leagues are just representational of how certain people are more attractive. It's just categorization.
    • kaylaS91

      true but some people believe in this categorization so strongly, they make it out to sound like the really hot girls are like a whole nother species. Essentially unapproachable because of huge behavioural/social/physical differences. May be true in some movies, but it's amazing how many take it as factual in real life.

    • Yeah. I try to think of it as "well no matter who I end up with im gonna think they're way more attractive than me by default so they'll probably be 'out of my league' anyway".

  • CBryan
    Is this a scheme to have more guys ask hot girls out because their rejection numbers aren't as high as they wish?
    I guess I'm out of every girl's league.. Lol!
  • TsukaisuteDanichan
    I automatically assume every guy who talks to me is out of my league of he's drunk high or bored because I have a low opinion of myself and it sucks I'm highly aware of it but don't really attempt to fix it cause its like a defense mechanism
  • DementedLlama
    I have never understood the league table thing, if I like a girl I ask her out.
  • The_Empty
    Don't get people's hopes up, especially when they don't have s chance. Some people simply out match others, don't fool them with false hopes now.
    • Johnagain

      Yeah. The problem is not ONLY with the guys whorthink they're Not worthy. Its also with the gals who have that attitude.

  • Supermosh1990
    This very true, love can happen anytime, anywhere, and it could be anyone.
  • HighlanderTheOne
    So tell me this. If beauty is completely subjective how can you be 100% objective when it comes to realize your ''league'' or your? out of 10?
    • kaylaS91

      Leagues are not possible to be 100% objective. They'll always be made with influence by what each individual happens to see as 'beautiful', their religions/culture, environment they were raised in which would affect who they see as beautiful and who not so much.

    • Well I know and I'm happy you know too. Considering the fact that you know leagues are subjective how can you make such a mytake?

    • kaylaS91

      ... have you read the take? It's sarcastic. There are no leagues, only those you make in your own head in which case you're digging your own grave. Nobody else's fault but your own.

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  • Swanny
    Thank you ! It is so heartwarming for the average guys like me :)
  • art84
    What if you do consider a girl outta your league like the way she dresses or presents herself. Like you get the feeling that you'll never measure up to her standards?
    • kaylaS91

      That's all in your head! Think about it... is there some universal 'setting standards' committee?
      No. Obviously not. Everyone's standards, who they view as above/below their standards are subjective.

  • BigJake
    You're totally right, great take! I used to limit myself on the girls I'd ask out because I thought so many of them were out of my league. I did this until I realized that girls evaluate guys so much differently than we evaluate them. I'm not the most attractive guy facially, but I have a lot going for me (size, sense of humor) that is attractive to lots of girls, including some absolute hotties. Now I consistently date girls that other guys consider to be out of my league. It's just that I have the balls to approach and ask out, and they don't, so they never give themselves the chance for a girl to like them. Hot girls are just people, but the put them on a pedestal, which makes it impossible for the girl to ever respect the guy.
  • jmmmfi2
    None of that's true for the simple fact all those types of girls already think there so much better than you that average dudes don't even exist to them.
    • kaylaS91

      lol k. No need to be all bitter and pouty because some women fucked you over, or maybe because you chose to sugarcoat them simply being not interested by saying it's because they think they're 'too much better than you'.

  • LostConfusedWhat
    My ex fiance was out of my league and I'm convinced that's why she broke up with me and now i have no confidence in approaching a girl especially if I think she's too good for me
  • gunny007
    It's too deep, while it just seems to be shallow!!
    Nice take @kaylaS91
  • Jager66
    I really like your take, was a fun read and solid advice.
  • Ah none of this matters I am 90% hairless and I can't ever get a hot girl I should have taken my chance when I was hot fuck this shit
  • tscumeses
    leagues exist... people need to get over that reality..
  • bloodmountain1990
    Great take, you beat me to it lol. Personally I hate the phrase, she's out of my league. It's a very defeatist statement and you put yourself down when you say that.

    I mean of course appearance matters somewhat, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One person may find you attractive while another may not. What I think it comes down to in the end is if you two are a match. For example, I'm more likely to a cute girl that has similar interests as opposed to a cute girl who has nothing in common. And I've dated some very cute girls with obscure interests like me so you never know.
    • more likely to approach*

    • I don't even say that I'm out of a girl's league for one who likes me that I don't find physically attractive. I just don't find them physically attractive and that's that. No need to be cocky about it.

  • Shyguy_1988
    I'm in a league of my own, hahahaha. Sorry, I make myself laugh
  • tiredofwaiting
    I assume every guy is out of my league at least the ones I like.
  • luckycharms7
    Lol I'm short so unfortunately everyones out of my league
  • OpenWine
    Nah for me ther r onli fuk bichs who r notin wort and cool chicks who put meh on teh frindzone
  • canistan
    leagues exist, accept that reality..
    • kaylaS91

      um.. if leagues existed as an absolute truth then wouldn't not so attractive genes gone extinct long ago?

    • canistan

      no, since genetics occur randomly as much as hereditary.

    • kaylaS91

      true but how would you explain evolution then? Yes traits occur randomly but over time favour the ones that are most beneficial to the survival of the organism. Or, in the case of appearance, selective breeding would've made people with less-desired physical traits few and far in between.

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  • QuestionMan
    Great take, it confirmed a theory I had.
  • Ihav2fart
    I pulled @MissNowhere into my fabulous league
  • GreatnessPersonified
    True take.
  • JustinX9
    I shall dig my own grave
    • kaylaS91

      ... why's that?

    • JustinX9

      Getting pretty girls is like the song "reach the unreachable star" might as well dig my own grave. Nah I hate being average and I want to be a catch

    • kaylaS91

      pretty girls are only as important and unattainable as you make them. Maybe if you stopped looking at them as nothing but an attractive piece of meat and saw them as an actual human being, that would make things easier for you.

  • ElvenMr
    I like reading this.
  • Anonymous
    So when do I get my lingerie model?
    • kaylaS91

      When you get the balls to approach her and treat her like a normal human being, more than just someone very attractive with a good body.

  • Anonymous
    Good take but I choose to ignore leagues.
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