Do Women Have Unrealistic Expectations For Men?

[Anonymous]

I just wanted to share my viewpoints as to why many women--NOT ALL WOMEN, but many women--are unrealistic about their standards for men. I'm going to be very raw and very real; because I'm hoping that this eventually helps somebody.

The other night, I was at a bar and a girl asked me for my number and I said no. I've noticed I've begun doing this a lot. Before this at the same bar a woman sat beside me and offered to buy me a drink and I politely said, "No thanks," and left. It has recently dawned on me how much I hate dating. And the reason I hate dating is because I honestly just can't deal with women's expectations. In my experience (My experience, I'm not saying every woman is like this) it has been like dating perpetual renditions of Goldilocks. They want me to be, think, and behave "just right" so as to meet this image of an ideal man that they have. I’ve met women at bars, out while shopping, at the gym, at church, you name it; and this phenomenon is almost universal. And these women have been such a valuable lesson for me, because what I’ve learned from them was that many women don't just want a "good man." What they’re really wanting are these standards or ideas of what a man is supposed to be. But these standards ARE NOTHING LIKE WHAT MEN ARE! These standards are not realistic. They aren't reality. For who men are, how we think, what we value, this preconceived notion of how a man should be is quite foreign.

1st Standard

MEN ARE NOT WOMEN! Ladies, a guy isn't going to be a best friend like your girlfriends. So if you're expecting a prince charming that's so sensitive and so everything like your girlfriends then you're already set for failure. Honestly, we may hurt your feelings quite readily but it's not because we don't care, it's because we’re human and aren't perfect. I remember a girl showed me a picture that read, "....No Man Is Worth Crying Over, And The Perfect One Won't Make You Cry...", and while that's really poetic, it's unrealistic, because even your parents will make you cry, and they love you very much; it's their job to love you!

Include a caption for your image…

2nd Standard

A lot of women seem to get their standard of a man from many of the boys they've dated. Many women seem to compare good men to the boys they experienced previously who were, in no way, ready to commit to anything. Ladies, there is a DISTINCT DIFFERENCE between men who are relationship material and these boys that you've messed around with for years in what I call "SITUATIONSHIPS." And consequently, now you’ve adopted this standard for a man based on these dudes who nothing more than just fun. And now when a man comes along, you may say

"...this guy's too corny...." ".....he likes me too much..." "....he texts me too much..."

And Sherlock Holmes is shouting, "Of course girl! The dudes you've been messing with didn't text you right back, because they have 8 more just like you!" And so when a man comes along and is actually crazy about you, you suddenly don’t know how to handle it! A guy who genuinely likes you, who's legitimately interested in you becomes the guy you've--and I hate to say it--friend-zoned! At one point I remember having 8 girlfriends at one time. Every one of them thought it was just me and her; but that wasn't the case at all. Even now, I still only remember two of their names. I was that dude! I was a boy! I didn't call them. I didn't really even care about them. But they thought I did. And now that I've grown up a little, it’s actually sad 1) that I was like that and 2) that they found my apathy sexy!

3rd Standard

MEN DO NOT LOOK LIKE WOMEN!!!! We aren't supposed to look like women! I get the wrong kind of attention from women all the time. I get numbers, I get girls asking me to have sex (It’s supposed to be the other way around) . I get girls who want to feel my chest. I get girls that buy me drinks. LADIES, let me be clear. Girls' YOU ARE THE FAIRER SEX!!! If you're wanting a pretty boy who's got a 6-pack and stays in the mirror more than you; he may have other girls feeding his attention than just you! So women who have a standard based on visuals, rethink your standards. You're the fairer sex, you're the gorgeous one, you're the one men go to war over. You're the one we try to make all this money to impress! Quit telling me they’re pretty. Quit feeling up on their chests and abs in public. Quit looking to see if they have a man bun. Quit this, "Is he 6'3?... Does he look like Tom Brady? Does he look like David Beckham? Does he look good in some Slim-fit?..."

Listen baby girl, Tom Brady is married to a super model. The last time I checked, Beckham was taken too. These men are such a small percentage of the population. Do you understand that for a man to be over 6'2 is less than 3% of the population???? We're talking all men, around the world! Less than 3%. Less than 14% if we're just talking America. That includes all the men who are broke. All the men who are married. All the men who are in prison! Less than 14%. So you're sitting here like--

"Oh, he's gotta be 6', he has to have strong cheek bones, he has to have six pack, ..."

I remember trying to set my friend up on one date with a girl I knew. The girl had gone on and on about how she didn’t want to be single. She said she wasn’t looking for a guy to be perfect, just intelligent, kind, and down to earth. People, let me tell you, if any guy to bring home to mom, it was this kid. He didn’t swear, he didn’t call girls the B-word, he didn’t smoke, he was nice to his mom, he was in shape, he was smart. But when I ran it by her she said, “Eww, I would never date him. He’s scrawny.” I was like, “Girl! I just freaking went and found you a damn ½ Mr. Rogers, ½ Bill Gates clone! Are you serious! He’s too scrawny?? Then buy a damn dumbbell set!!!!”

It’s like today men have to be perfect, but the problem is SWEETHEART, YOU’RE NOT EVEN PERFECT!

Ladies. I’m all about self-worth and not settling. But don’t completely supplant self-esteem for common sense.

“I know what I deserve! I’m not going to settle!”

Men have fantasies too, but typically separate fantasy from real women

But in the meantime, baby girl, you’re not even half the things you have on your own list of standards!!!?????? What??? You yourself aren’t even half of what your own standards, and yet you require that in a man? Sweetheart, you better find yourself a build-a-bear or something, because your standards are standardizing you right out of the game!

You might have issues and even more unresolved issues. You might be bossy. You might have a temper. You might not have a great body. You might not look good in the morning before you put on your make up. You might have a small bust size. You might have a big waist. You might have fat in places a lot of men don’t like. You might go out with your girlfriends in a sexy dress completely submerged under make up, powdered and glossed to the peak, and it might make you feel like Beyoncé or Gisele; but you’re not her. And maybe a lot of guys don’t want to be around you long-term. You might run everybody away because of your attitude sometimes. You think you’re so much the IT that it’s almost like you’re vain and stuck up. AND MEN DON’T LIKE IT! And you wonder why you can’t keep a man?

You might have to Build-A-Man

Instead of going to build-a-bear, you need to find a man who meets your requirements in CHARACTER and VALUES. Look for things like Lifestyle, Goals, and Vision. In a relationship, you should have high expectations of the other person because you're considering spending your life with that someone. But if you’re going to demand something, then make it a reasonable demand. Don’t make your demands easy, but goodness, at the very least make them attainable.

(I realize many women may say, "Hey, men have problems too." And that's true, but this post isn't titled ...And The Problems Men Have Too... This one is about women, a topic about guys is going to require its own My Take to just break the surface of our issues)

[ChurchOfIron]

I mean... women kinda do look at lifestyle, goals, and vision... More than they do physical appearance... Women are much less physical and visual than men are. Women are much more mental. All they need is a connection.

Really, in this sense, women have significantly less standards than men. They have higher standards in pretty much every area other than physical attractiveness. But, I mean, not unreasonable standards, in my opinion, considering their nature. Generally speaking. Certainly some do, but to say "many", I feel like you got the shit backwards, bro.

And, I mean, yeah, if a dude has a smoking hot body, why wouldn't a woman like it? It's not like they *expect* that, in general. Shit, you remember the disgusting "dad bod" craze? Women saying that out of shape mess was attractive? Doesn't exactly go hand-in-hand with what you're saying.

1st Standard: A man can easily be an emotional rock for a woman. And if he sucks at it, he can get better at it. I don't feel like that is an unrealistic expectation. Wanting to have your *partner* be there for you? What is so unrealistic about that?

Or is it the "never make you cry" thing? Sure, that would probably be unrealistic. But is this a common thing? I feel like you're talking about.0005% of the female population, instead of "many women".

2nd Standard: It's true that indifference kinda turns women on. And that can be frustrating, for sure, when you really like a woman. But this is actually women wanting men to have standards. If a man goes head over heels in two seconds, he's just like a bunch of other men who do the same thing. "Oh, another guy who is just falling for the first woman who stumbles across his path, ready to accept anything and anyone--not me, specifically. He'd take anything."

This feels like the "women don't like nice guys" complaint. Yeah. Why would they? Nice guys are usually only nice, because they expect to be rewarded for being nice. They're not being nice, just because they're nice. They're being creepy and entitled.

3rd Standard: I kinda already covered this one. Women are faaaaaaar less physical or visual than men are. Shit, I'm jacked, myself, and I get plenty of women who say they're not into it. And, I'm grateful for the ones who *are* into it. Takes a shitload of pain and work and dedication. I don't condemn them for liking an aesthetic body. I don't get why you are.

[ChurchOfIron]

Ha. You based all of this off this video, didn't you? She says basically exactly what you're saying. Even uses the term "situationships" and "f-boys" and "They have 8 more just like you."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ONHDmDD8s

[ChurchOfIron]

Then she moves on to "We are the fairer sex." "They're in the mirror more than you."

Yeah, you totally watched this video and made a MyTake off it, yeah?

[cherryphi82]

Wow, you sure exposed him :)

[JSPlasmo1]

Really, in this sense, women have significantly less standards than men. They have higher standards in pretty much every area other than physical attractiveness.

This statement is categorically untrue. I'm data analyst and the statistics simply do not endorse this statement. In fact, it's the opposite. Statistically speaking, women on average rate a whopping 80% of Men as unattractive. Men, on average, rate women at a near perfect bell curve. Meaning 50% attractive, 50% unattractive.

This concept follows the Pareto Principle. However, the numbers are significantly more skewed as the upper 10% of men have 90% of the sex. The top one percent reporting over 400 partners. Hence why we see such a skewed view of Men in modern society and the destruction of Marriage becoming common place.

Simply put, the players are fucking us all out of business and divorce is finishing the rest. Basically, you're walking into a mine field if you're an average Joe. As always, there exceptions

[ChurchOfIron]

@JSPlasmo1 As a "data analyst", you're not that great at reading comprehension. That's *physical attractiveness* I was speaking of. Not overall standards. I outright said they had hugher standards everywhere else.

So become a player. Don't hate the player, hate the game. And it doesn't matter if you're average or not. All it takes is balls. The balls to try, and the balls to accept failure. Being a "player" just means knowing what women want and giving it to them. Instead of hating on players, maybe you should learn some game?

Game will beat type, every time. Looking good helps. But it is not as important to women as it is to men. Any average man who decides to find his nutsack can get laid as much as he wants.

There is also "econological" game, which is what most "players" recommend. What this means is you do not harm women. You don't take advantage of them. You learn game simply to get both yourself and the woman what you both want. While also working on yourself.

[ChurchOfIron]

@JSPlasmo1 And you know why women find 80% of men unattractive? Because of what I said. Women don't care nearly as much as men do about appearance. They care about character traits. Namely if a guy has balls.

Another difference with women and men is that women's perception of whether a guy looks attractive or not can *change*. A man's cannot. Women's perceptions of a man's physical attractiveness *changes* based on how he treats her.

So yeah. Maybe women, by default, find 80% of men unattractive. But, just because she doesn't find you attractive doesn't mean she isn't capable of finding you attractive.

Don't make excuses. Find a way to win.

[JSPlasmo1]

You are correct that a Womens perspective can change, but so do Mens. Also, this Data is based off of Dating websites, including sites like Tinder. What it shows is that Women rate 80% of Men as unattractive based purely off their looks, not their personality. As for winning, you can definitely win, but be careful of your choices.

[Browneye57]

TLDR - didn't need to, cuz the answer is, 'yes, of course'.
Their entire life they've been told some prince is going to swoop in and sweep them off their feet. Even disney got into this shtick.

Next, since they could talk they've been told how pretty they are, how special, and that they are way more deserving and entitled than any boy. Period.

And all of their life they have been told that they 'deserve to be happy'. Newsflash baby, you deserve NOTHING. You get what you get for the effort you make, what you work for, just like everybody else.

Consequently we have this whole flock of entitled princess snowflakes that think they deserve more and are simply not going to settle. LOL

Worse, 85% of them are trying to snag the 15% of the top guys. They'll even have sex with them just hoping to nail one down. And of course these are the guys that don't bother to commit, or settle with one girl, cuz so many are throwing themselves at them. But now this girl thinks cuz Chad Thundercock did her she is somehow elevated in SMV. She now isn't going to settle with just some shmuck cuz she can land a Chad. So she rides the cock-carousel 'till nobody wants her.

Sad really. Yes, very unrealistic. And then you'll hear the famous cry, "But I just wasn't hhhhaaaappppyyyy.". :)

[Anonymous]

It’s the same with men. They expect us to be curvy but not fat. Have perfect, silky smooth hair, face free of acne. Makeup, but not too much makeup, then she’ll look like a slut.

They expect us not to be shy, but not too chatty because that’s annoying. Be adventurous in the bedroom. Shave our underarms, legs, nether regions and any other hair that is unappealing to men. Expect your girlfriend to care for you when you’re in an emotional crisis, but not care for her because she’s probably on her period anyway.

What I’m saying is, double standards. Men have unrealistic expectations for women. Women have unrealistic expectations for men.

You should go into relationships not expecting anything, take it as it comes.

Also, not all of the above applies to all men. So if you don’t have those expectations, don’t feel like I’m accusing you of anything.

[Schrodingerscat]

This. Except weight part. in my opinion not so wrong in wanting someone healthy.

You forgot about earning money. She should make money, but not too much. She should have a job but not a career. Only 'cute' and girly professions like cashier, nurse, secretary are good. An investment banker? Too masculine. A scientist? No way.

[musicman420]

While I agree men also have unrealistic expectations, a few of these just aren't even real.

The hair thing is very subjective. Many men like curly hair or any number of styles. Perhaps healthy hair, but that's not unreasonable. Healthy hair is just a sign you're healthy and take care of yourself. Far more women also have healthy hair then men have hair in general, and hair health is something you can fairly easily control, whereas balding isn't. Not sure this is unrealistic or unfair unless the man refuses to date women who still have healthy hair but not up to their standard.

Acne free skin is also not super difficult. Most people don't have acne ridden skin. It's not that hard to wash your face.

Makeup and body type though I would totally agree with.

And not too shy and not too chatty is just an expectation of people in general. We want to find someone engaging that we don't have to drag a conversation out of, but not someone who is just going to constantly dominate the conversation. Another way to put this is just "be enjoyable to talk to" which is just an expectation of every relationship's chemistry.

The shaving thing, you might be surprised. Yes, there are general societal expectations for grooming, and certainly more-so for women, but you might be extremely surprised by how little a great deal of men actually care how closely you follow those trends.

And men may not be talented at being emotionally supportive, but it doesn't mean they don't care. Many don't, in which case you're dating the "boys" mentioned above, and not men who are relationship material.

Bottom line though, most of men's unrealistic expectations seem to be very physical, occasionally delving into other areas, and women's unrealistic expectations tend to be in other areas, though occasionally physical. More on the lines of emotional or economic

[StephanArizona]

Most men realize the perfect woman does not exist and is willing to make compromises, woman generally are less willing to compromise on their "standards" because they consider that "settling" and in feminism, settling is a moral sin.

[Blunique]

Preach it dude. I hope to find the guy you are talking about. I want someone real, someone serious. I'm getting my masters and I want a guy like me. With goals and achieving those goals. I also really like an intelligent guy and facial hair. I feel like my standards aren't crazy. Also I'm 5'4 so I feel most guys are taller than me. I agree with the unrealistic expectations. I hope to find a guy who doesn't do the same to me or expect the perfect house wife. I want to work my career. That's why going to school and spending lots of money for it.

[Logorithim]

Very, very good points. I think in too many cases, both men and women have expectations for each other that are too high for the given circumstances. We also reject perfectly fine People for very shallow reasons like Body type.

[heyyyyy123]

Honestly I thought all of this was going to be annoying and kind of whiney, but some of them are good points I think. Some of your writing style sounded a little whiney, but nonetheless I agree with some of it anyways.
I don't like the idea of girls coming up to guys and buying them drinks either, like I've never heard of any of my friends doing that or even approaching guys in that type of manner. Its just odd to me.
Of course some of the things you said I don't really disagree, but I have a different take on it I guess. I think the reason why you think girls have high standards is because some girls do have them, and thats just how they are. I would avoid those girls, and honestly I know friends who would have certain guys in mind and I know they definitely were being a bit too ambitious. All girls would want a hot rich boyfriend, not all girls are going to get that. Some of them just don't realize it.
I think it has a lot to do with that hot guys will sleep with these girls, but they won't date them. And then once that happens they put themselves on a high horse and expect those hot rich guys to date them and take care of them when its just not going to happen. Because they aren't hot or smart enough of. There is just nothing there.
BUT I also have to say that anybody is allowed to have their own standards and opinions, not saying they'll be successful with them, but they can have them. I am not a fan of skinny/scrawny/lanky guys either. And its a definitely a type that some girls like and some do not. I also don't like chubby guys or guys who are shorter than me or the same height because I like to wear high heels. It wouldn't make me feel comfortable being taller than him since I am a submissive type, its a preference. And its not hard to find a guy over 5'6 so I think its okay. I can have those standards set if I want to, I'm not going to date someone I'm not physically or emotionally attracted to. My boyfriend now wasn't necessarily my type when I started dating him, but he had the main standards so I gave him a chance and everything worked out fine and I think he's the most attractive guy ever. I think it has a lot to do with perspective and what they are looking for. When they want a real partner, they'll stop being so superficial.

[Anonymous]

Here in Saudi Arabia and other wealthy arab countries they do. rnments are growing increasingly concerned with the marital (or lack thereof) trends in their nations. Threatening to change the fabric of their societies, as well as their gene pool.
First is the dramatic rise in the number of unmarried Arab women (spinsters), with such findings in reports:
The highest rank of unmarried women are in Lebanon, where it reaches 86%.
The Gulf states have been rising steadily in recent years, the UAE leads the top ranking by 70%. In Saudi Arabia, the number of unmarried women who are above the age of marriage reached 2 million, which is equivalent to twice the population of Bahrain.
Second is the rise of Arab men marrying foreign brides. As one the article states:
Almost one in three marriages in the first half of the year were to foreigners, according to the Dubai Statistics Centre, up from 26 per cent in 2006.
The Arab nations have obviously recognized the causal relationship between the two trends and some of the driving factors have been identified. Chief among the reasons is the extortionately high dowries required, stretching into the region of six figures. Add expensive wedding costs, with large Arab families on both sides, and you have a personal financial meltdown.
Other reasons included were gender segregation limiting the opportunities for interaction and the difficulties of obtaining permission from the bride’s family. At least some of the reasons are down to the women themselves, who are seeking educated peers and prioritizing their careers and education first.
In response, the Arab nations have taken to outright banning marriage between locals and certain foreign nationalities (i. e. Saudi Arabia). The Emirates has gone one further by stating brides must be Arab and Muslim. Saudi Arabia has also tried to alleviate the dowry problem by imposing limits on the size of said dowries.
Unsurprisingly these measures have not succeeded in fully reversing either of these trends (given that they are blanket punitive knee-jerk responses). That is because they fail to grasp the true reasons behind these issues; which are extremely familiar to the West,
Marriage is essentially a supply-demand transaction. There are only a certain number of desirable suitors (supply) when limiting them down to the key specifications (demand). The demands of Arab women are for a rich, well-earning Arab Muslim man from a good background (and great physicality).

[Opinion Owner]

... But aside from sharing religion and ethnicity, Arab women do not offer what Arab Muslim men want.
Arab countries are among the most obese in the world. Whilst the viewed ideal weight varies across history and county; in the Arab world it most certainly isn’t size 16. Obesity is a disease, and most rational people desire physically-fit partners to ensure healthy offspring. To be crude, larger women are far less sexually-able than their thinner superiors. They are far too heavy and inflexible for enjoyable coitus positions and penetration is hampered by the thick layers of adipose tissue. Just like in the West, harpooning land whales is unfulfilling and deeply humiliating.
As a result of migrant domestic workers, Arab women have next to no household skills. Cooking, sewing, and cleaning are useful skills which they cannot boast. Instead they idly lay about, expecting the housekeeper (paid by the man) to do the simplest tasks.

[Opinion Owner]

... Men on some deep psychological level are driven to compare women to their own mothers. If modern Arab women are fatter and less skilled than their predecessors than Arab men will inevitably seek skilled foreigners as alternatives.
Capitalist consumerism is an unspoken factor in this predicament. Nowadays women have more interest in material consumption that it distorts their world view. Arab women seek self-gratification by buying the most expensive clothes, jewelry and gadgets. This leads to selfish narcissistic mindset that disallows empathy and relationship building. Such women will never have genuine connections with men, and will ultimately exploit them to fund their extravagant lifestyles.
Of course we cannot ignore the feminist empowerment/hypergamy paradox. Women are naturally driven to seek more successful men, however Arab women are sometime more educated and wealthy than their male counterparts. This leads to many women competing for a very small pool of eligible men.

[Opinion Owner]

Even worse considering that men do not value a woman’s salary or education compared to her age, beauty, and personality. So it is no wonder a spinster trend emerges when women are woefully unrealistic in their expectations and refuse to face facts.
In their frustration with their own women, Arab men have vented on social media that these women can remain childless and unmarried. They refuse to wait till they can afford the dowry or win permission and simply choose foreign brides en masse. Marrying a foreign woman means Arab men are liberated from the oppressive chains of tradition and having to answer to in-laws. The women can be much younger and given the cultural practices of child marriage, this is a great boon.
So for all the praise of Islam’s strong patriarchal values and conservative attitudes to women, they have been corrupted all the same by feminism and capitalist consumerism.

[Opinion Owner]

... Proving that culture and religion are no match for these insidious movements. The situation will not change unless the women themselves are willing to. Given the attempts to “redefine” spinsterhood into self-deluded female empowerment, this seems highly unlikely.
Arab governments (and the first world) can create as many ineffective controls that they want, but they will inevitably fail unless they temper native women’s expectations and make them desirable once more.

[lazermazer]

You guys just started driving. Congrats

[Opinion Owner]

@lazermazer I've been driving since I was 17. You still need a male relative to escort you if you want to go shopping so it's pointless.

[lazermazer]

So either way it sucks 😂😂😂

[Opinion Owner]

@lazermazer I actually have a pretty good life here with my husband, though some Saudi women can be bitches espicially the unmarried fat ones like my husband's sisters.

[lazermazer]

Ohhh fuckkk😂😂😂

[lazermazer]

Did you just?🔥🔥

[Oram52]

"women can be bitches espicially the unmarried fat ones like my husband's sisters. "
LMAO hahaha
Surely this can't be true. Is it really this bad or you were just being bit sarcastic. From what I see Arab men seem happily married.

[Opinion Owner]

@Oram52 the Arab men lile my husband are lol

[lord_chilled]

very interesting perspective

[CubsterShura]

1st standard- that was stupid. I do agree that a guy who is good (not perfect, no one is perfect) will not be abusive, say hurtful words or compare... But it doesn't mean that shit never happens.

2nd standard- As a GIRL this standard hurts me too. Why do so many guys expect a woman who is religious, wears modest clothes, speaks and behaves modestly, is innocent like a flower, but still a nasty slutty vulgar wildcat with years of experience and a PhD on sex and eroticism in bed? Many women are in to vulgar stuff but not all. Even typing this made me cry, shit.

3rd standard- The first past and fair sex part kinda confused me. But it is stupid to expect a man to be tall and ripped like a model. I personally wouldn't want a 6'+ guy cause I'm short myself and he would basically be a giant lol.

Also, this is actually an 'issue' I addressed more than once on this website previously. People want a good spouse without willing to be the good spouse themselves.

People with unrealistic standards are increasing alarmingly. Literally there are men out there looking like shit expecting their wives to be flawless like dolls... To the point that I even heard of men divorcing women for having darker armpits and private area, or for not being smooth in bed like porn stars.

Sometimes I just don't want to marry. I'd rather die being virgin than change myself to meet people's standards.

[Anonymous]

wow, last time I checked men have side chicks who have the dream D-cup titties, Barbie figure, and botox injected lips. What's with the bull, reality from fantasy? Men separate reality from fantasy? And that's why most men will laugh at a girl in front of her face because she's got a bit of a belly? Sweetheart, women have the same standards as men. Actually, I've noticed far more gorgeous, slim women with pug-faced cheeseballs, and they weren't even rich. women are less shallow than men, verify this for yourself the next time you go out in public and take a look at how many gorgeous bald buddies you got dating women who look like supermodels. Men have a helluva longer list of standards (at least the young ones). what do women want? Tall, bald, fat, somewhat decent looking, and faithful? Wow, what standards. Perhaps the ladies you hang around are all superficial whores. There's many of those, but then again, there's an equal amount of their male counterparts as well. I believe the correct term is a "fuckboy."

[SaintJonesy]

Yeah none of the first part of what you wrote remotely resembles reality. The second part, you're only focusing on physical standards. Men have more specific physical standards but they're also more desperate as a rule, so more willing to bend on them. Women have a lot more varied standards, some of them are self-contradictory and some of them have nothing to do with attraction and conflict with what human beings naturally desire in a partner. Women don't have "unrealistic" expectations, but they do have higher expectations in all arenas except physical form, and even there they are less willing to compromise them, in effect making them higher. Evolutionarily speaking, women want the optimum mate whereas men just want a high quantity. Only 35% of human males in the history of our species ever passed on their genes, whereas 80% of women did (the rest mostly died in infancy)

[Opinion Owner]

@SaintJonesy ok, but i still don't really get it because as i've already said, most couples i see, the girls are slim and gorgeous, and the guys have two burgers in each hand and a pot belly, and those guys would never settle for anything less. i don't exactly see where the standards are "higher."

[Opinion Owner]

here, to clarify, i'll tell you my standards: somewhat smart, a decent job that will prevent us from being homeless, decent looking (even a 6 if he's got a good personality), fun from time to time, loyal, and kind. wow, the standards, WOW. i know, women ask for so much. maybe you've met too many fake women. you may find it hard to believe, but there are still beautiful women out there who are willing to date any man as long as he treats her right. he doesn't even need to have a Porsche.

[SaintJonesy]

I'm not interested in what you "see". An individual sees half what they expect to see and half what they want to see. Your own perception is totally unreliable and not at all objective. And here's the part that's going to make you upset: Your perceptions of your own standards aren't even accurate, because like everyone else you see it as "the norm". Attraction is 100% subconscious non-verbal; therefore, if you claim to know exactly what you're attracted to, you're kidding yourself. For example, skeletal symmetry (esp. in the legs) is a huge decider of sexual success for both genders, but I guarantee it's not something you've consciously noticed very often, if at all.

Also, women's physical standards for men are just different. Height and weight are huge factors for men. It's just women want bigger men; in fact to a certain extent being kind of fat (not obese) works a lot better for men than being fit. By the numbers, this is the #1 feature that determines a man's sexual success.

[SaintJonesy]

Very few women want their man to be as you put it "slim and gorgeous". That's just silly. You just don't notice the standards men are held to, because you're not held to them. Most women expect us to be emotionally rock-solid yet emotionally available, financially inscrutable but not cheap-skates (i. e. "rich"), respected by our peers, larger than average, well put together but not TOO well put together (or we get tagged as "gay"), kind and attentive toward you yet paradoxically aggressive and domineering toward others, family-oriented but not TOO close to our families, etc. I could go on all day. Each woman is different and has different expectations, but at the end of the day, y'all are in a much better bargaining position to make demands and not have to make compromises.

[Anon-ymous1]

The term "fuckboy" is erroneous and stupid and no one should use it. And lip injections are retarded-- guys don't want that. Big tits and a slim figure, yes, that is what we want. Correct on that.

[villageidiot]

I've seen couples like you describe here, (a burger in each hand) but what I don't understand is how these girls hook up with them in the first place. I'm a shy/quiet type, in other words, alone. I know better than to set standards.

[cherryphi82]

@SaintJonesy Men want women who are young-looking, fertile, with tits big enough to wear nice clothes in but not so small as to seem boyish yet not so big as to be seen as trashy and fake. They want women who can throw down like men but be demure and dainty when around them. They want women who can birth children and bounce back like they never had any. They want women who think like a man but be vulnerable, open and embarrassable at the drop of a hat when it suits them. They want women who can do anything a man can do except when they do it better or receive more money for it, then they're taking the jobs away or are being aggressive bitches who don't know their place. They want women to be happy with the bare minimum of emotional intimacy yet expect them to be nurturing and magnanimous as a matter of course. They want women to be able to spar like men, share their interests and fight like them, but if she does it in at the wrong place at the wrong time i. e. she's labeled psycho.

[cherryphi82]

They want women who are intelligent but only to not make them look like complete sleazes in front of their buddies. They want a woman who can open her mouth as long as she's tooting the man's horn, but as soon as she has her own opinion, she's whack and out of place. A lady in the streets a freak in the sheets... virginity/purity who suddenly turns into an experienced, mature sex fiend when she is with you and no one else of course. I can list countless examples where men have contradictory expectations, nay, requirements, for women. We all have them. They don't make sense. Why single out and condemn women for having them when men did it for years. In the end, it's still the man who proposes and decides whether he wants to wife a woman. Bargaining power my ass.

[Anon-ymous1]

@cherryphi82 You want to be the one to propose, not to be proposed to? I doubt it.

[cherryphi82]

@Anon-ymous1 Who said that?

[Anon-ymous1]

@cherryphi82 Why are you mentioning it as a matter of complaint then?

[cherryphi82]

@Anon-ymous1 What you said and what I mentioned doesn't relate. I listed up instances in which guys have unrealistic or contradictory expectations of women to which you bring up proposing. Complete mismatch.

[Anon-ymous1]

@cherryphi82 I meant that you mentioned the fact that guys get to decide when/if to propose as a matter of complaint. I'm not sure what's confusing.

[cherryphi82]

@Anon-ymous1 Proposal is romantic gesture. In that sense, it is preferable being the one who gets proposed to than the one doing the proposing, but in the end, it's societally imposed construct that gives some power to choose while others wait to be chosen. I'm a romantic person but if it comes down to choice between power and romance, I'd very much like the freedom and power to choose.

[cherryphi82]

by the way, I'm not saying men can't have these contradictory standards. We all do. What I'm criticizing is the fact that it's seen as worse when women have them.

[Anon-ymous1]

@cherryphi82 I'm not so sure that's true though.

[cherryphi82]

@Anon-ymous1 Which part?

[Anon-ymous1]

@cherryphi82 The part where girls are more heavily scrutinized and judged for having preferences. These days, guys are heavily judged for having standards and preferences of physical attraction. Trust me.

[cherryphi82]

@Anon-ymous1 But if guys' standards/expectations are so reasonable, then why are they scrutinized?

[Anon-ymous1]

@cherryphi82 Because people aren't reasonable any more. Maybe we never have been. So we overly scrutinize each other's relatively normal behavior.

[cherryphi82]

@Anon-ymous1 So you admit that guys also have unreasonable expectations.

[Anon-ymous1]

@cherryphi82 Depends. Wanting someone pretty/hot isn't unreasonable.

[cherryphi82]

@Anon-ymous1 Exactly. Then neither is it unreasonable for women to want that.

[cherryphi82]

@Anon-ymous1 But according to this guy's argument, it is unreasonable. The claim here is that women should not expect to want a pretty or hot guy because most men are average joes, therefore they should go for average joes. If women said that, they'd be accused of judging a guy's preferences and telling him what to do. If a man does it, he's just being a real guy who's calling women out.

[Anon-ymous1]

@cherryphi82 Perhaps.

[cherryphi82]

@Anon-ymous1 To which part?

[rjroy3]

I agree and disagree.

I think a lot of what people call "standards/expectations" today aren't actually expectations on the women's part in many cases. I've spoken with the ex boyfriends of girls I dated in the past and a lot of what the guy thought the girl expected of him was legitimately all in his head.

Just the other day I spoke with a girl who said she only dated guys who were 6'+ and that it was in her mind, with the most recent guy that was hitting on her who is like 5'8/5'9. She's now engaged to that same guy lol. The height thing wasn't a standard for her, but a preference. Most girls are that way about a lot of what we call "expectations", but they're really preferences and yes most girls have some unrealistic preferences, but the actual expectations/standards are nowhere near as unreasonable as you would think.

I know for me I would prefer a girl who has an immaculate booty, immaculate tits, immaculate skin, has sex with me multiple times a day every day, but no other guys hit on her. That's a very unrealistic preference, but hey. Doesn't stop me from preferring that lol.

[Kitbracadabra]

I agree with everything gregcmack said. Expectations can be far to high on the female's side. I will admit that I was guilty of this.. at a point. Yes, when I was 8-ish I wanted the cute blonde that I would meet at the beach, with blue eyes, a tan, and an adorable grin. The difference is, I grew out of the really quickly. I don't have a "type" now, and I am happy about the guy I like and don't want to force him to change. So many girls, even those in the comment section say "Oh, well it's fair to expect him to get a sixpack because that's feasible, but it's not like I can change my boob size". Girls, let me tell you what.
1.) If it's so easy, go get a six-pack yourself.
2.) Some guys physically can't get a six-pack unless they take unhealthy supplements.
3.) Well, you could get bigger boobs, by surgery. Something that could harm and would alter your body, just like strain from overexercising/supplement side effects could his.
Instead of whining, accept him for who he is. Is he overweight? Work out together. No "oh, you need to get in shape" while staying at home whining. Go out with him, even if you don't technically need it.
Anyway, this comment is much longer than planned, so it's time for me to end it.

[Riotgrrrl20]

I do realize you said that this is your experience, then I noticed your subject changed to ‘ladies’. Which is a bit puzzling, but nonetheless..

1) Seems like you are the one who has his views “backwards”. Not all women want a tall ripped, unrealistic, pretty man. They want someone actually interested in them, who wants to engage in intellectually stimulating conversations. Or, I don’t know, want what they want.
If she’s checking out guys, so tf what. She’s with you for a reason, trust her.
Lots of women are aware that not every man looks like “Tom Brady”.
It sounds like you fell across one too many women who had these qualities. Maybe that should have been something you communicated with your partner. Communication is sexy!
If you don’t want to be friend with her friends, let her know. Don’t be a dick about it though.
That sounds like YOU aren’t picking the right girl, maybe she LOOKS GOOD but has all of these qualities you dislike.
If that bugs you, find a girl to hook up with at a bar and move on to the next one. This annoyed the shit out of me, because a lot of guys will write girls off because of their looks. They expect a good looking girl to have the intellect or attitude of a girl most would call ugly.
Many women are very loose with their standards, maybe you chose a Megan Fox, expecting her to be intellectually equivalent to Rosalind Franklin. Or as accepting as Frida Kahlo. Let’s just go ahead and say ‘some girls’ or ‘the girls I have dated’ instead of following up with ‘Ladies’ addressing all of the females.
I feel sorry for you, because it sounds like someone got your panties in a bunch. Good luck finding “the one” with a dismissive attitude like that.

[Schrodingerscat]

"Megan Fox, expecting her to be intellectually equivalent to Rosalind Franklin. Or as accepting as Frida Kahlo. "

This is GOLD.

[levantine99]

@Schrodingerscat all my male buddies say that even fridas today have the attitude and ungrounded self esteem of gisele. so... yeah. ugly and bright won't equal dateable either... .

[bethshepherd]

Not a bad article, English and grammar very poor, but makes a good point. But it is not for you to tell women what to look for on the basis that you end up the loser if they look for other things. Some go purely for looks, I think they are stupid but it is up to them. Where I believe a lot of women are unrealistic is when they are old , plain, poor and want a gorgeous young rich man. I have come across women who join the dating sites for millionaires when they are penniless, and they really believe that some gorgeous hardworking rich hunk will pick them out and marry them when they are merely lazy gold diggers. Of course they get nobody other than the men who lie about being rich or who just have sex wit them and then dump them. They should have seen that coming.

[4nication]

What about sexual selection? You are aware that men mostly do the pursuing and women mostly do the choosing, right? For sound evolutionary reasons. I mean, that is true for many species. That's why male peacocks lug around big unwieldy tails that leave them vulnerable to predation. To impress the ladies.

You can tell women to lower their standards... But they will laugh in your face. Women are TWICE as likely to pass on their genes as men are.

You seem to get a lot of female attention, so maybe that is why you feel comfortable lecturing women about their preferences, but for most men, that is not the reality. And most women know from experience that they can date up and that men will compete for them.

[may04]

Interesting mytake--I do wonder though if there's more or less women like this in certain areas/social circles?

Just judging by most of the people I know, most of them seem to be grounded have solid, realistic relationship expectations.
The most relatable part of your mytake for me is seeing the abundance of women (myself included in the past) that invested way too much time with non-commital boys, but I can't recall that leading to rejecting better men later in life.

I definitely believe what you're saying, I guess I just never experienced or thought of it being as common place as it is from your perspective.

[ShesAmerican]

Puh. A guy who doesn’t like women having high expectations/standards are often the ones who have these standards for women. Funny.

I think everybody is allowed to have these kind of expectations. Yeah they may seem too far to reach and impossible, but just because you can’t meet them doesn’t mean that they aren’t allowed to have them. And I can guarantee that those who complain about these things are the ones who have these kind of standards as well but maybe aren’t too obvious about it. We like what we like. And most of the expectations are found in real life, maybe they’ve seen a guy who’s their ideal but didn’t have the chance to see him. You may never know.

We like what we like

[ShesAmerican]

And people don’t have to be the things they have on their standards. If they’re interested and see their ideal and the ideal likes them, why should that matter to you?

[musicman420]

I think the point is you can have these expectations, but be prepared to end up alone if they're so high nobody will meet them.
Everyone is free to have preferences, but if your "preference" becomes a "requirement", and those requirements are too high, it can limit your dating pool so much that nobody fits the bill.
If your man needs to be 6' 3", have a 6-pack and a perfect jaw/hairline, earn a 6-figure income, be intelligent, sensitive, emotionally stable and attentive, etc. you end up with such a small selection of men, that you won't end up dating anyone.

Maybe it just needs a better title like, "Lofty expectations of romantic partners may set one up for never finding anyone"

[brennanhuff]

So you wrote this to try to throw in some brags yourself ha. How many women do you meet a day to have women constantly feel up your chest? Even good looking built men don't get it often, it's women who have to deal with men wanting to feel them up. Women can't be lusty toward men though? Women are the fair sex, but you make it like women are aesthetically superior? As a straight man I agree with you, but it's perspective, and it makes sense for women to see men as the sexier looking gender, and I'm sure gay men feel that way about men compared to women. Standards are good and high, but sometimes women place more emphasis on things that should be less important but are important to them, but could be a reason why they have trouble or miss out on great guys and aren't married or stay with a great man for life.

[SaintJonesy]

I agree brother, but you said it yourself: "women are the ones who have to be won over." Women are the decision makers in dating. Women are the limiting resource. If women had their way 100%, about two thirds of men would NEVER be in a relationship (as evidenced in matrilineal societies like the Na and from genetic information). Maybe their standards are too high, but it still works out for them in the sense that there are very few women who have trouble meeting their standards (even if it means overlooking REALLY shitty qualities like narcissism and sociopathy, which actually increase aggression and as you pointed out apathy which are attractive male qualities, or if it means "sharing" a man, like your younger days stories) why would they change it?

[newbie2015]

"Situationships"😂😂😂

honestly so true! One reason why i always have a date I'm sure. I typically date real men. We all have a few things we won't compromise on, for instance i NEED a man with a decent IQ who can carry on a conversation. Doesn't have to be the next Einstein, but you get it. I do know q few spinsters who refused to compromise on anything... and they will likely die spinsters. Which I'm ok with if it is a choice. Just don't bitch about it.

[cherryphi82]

It IS hypocritical to have standards you don't meet yourself, but you're blowing this way out of proportion. The majority of people are pretty realistic about what they can get. What I definitely disagree on is that you seem to think women are not supposed to want someone physically appealing. That they somehow have the obligation to go for an average looking joe when the guys in question talk out both sides of their mouths. Most guys say they like meat on a woman's bones, etc, but they still always go for the skinny, conventionally pretty girls when they get the chance. If you ask me, guys have nothing over on girls in terms of standards, values or character strength. And not least of all, you seem to be saying that people have to settle. People are allowed to dream. That's not the same as making something a requirement.

[cherryphi82]

And you complain about women approaching you - WTF? This is so screwy. Then you admit you strung along eight girls and wanna talk about standards. Yeah. You're the hypocrite...

[lord_chilled]

you didn't get the point.
he said that men dream too, but they separate imagination from reality.

" Most guys say they like meat on a woman's bones, etc, but they still always go for the skinny, conventionally pretty girls when they get the chance. "

basically that proves that men are more realistic.
we may dream about one thing, but we aren't gonna trun someone down just because they dont fit all of our expectations.

the op is accusing women of not living in reality. 99 % of men are average joes. so yeah, women should settle for average joes.

[cherryphi82]

@lord_chilled And yet, I see articles upon articles saying how women settle for ugly dudes because they're not as visual, and that's in the biology of men to go for looks. Something's gotta give. Either we are more visual and pickier than men or we are not. Can't be both. But this is not about that. This is about you being butthurt because hot chicks are not sucking your dick.

[cherryphi82]

@lord_chilled Let's put this the other way around. 99% of women are average Janes. That means men should go for an average Jane, right? Yet, you see plenty of less attractive men with very hot women. Not so much the other way around. Something doesn't add up here. This is not about expectation. This is about men being offended that women also have certain goals. Why is it reasonable for a man to want someone hot and pretty, but not for a woman? Most men don't settle. Physically, however, many women do.

[musicman420]

Perhaps it comes down to women's expectations (realistic or not) being less physical. No need for a pissing match on who has the more unrealistic expectations on average.

Men definitely emphasize the physical when it comes to unrealistic expectations, but put much less emphasis on other things such as status, economic potential, etc. while women tend to have expectations that deal less with "conventional beauty" and more for provision and leadership. I suppose we could mention height, which is definitely a big one, just seeing how many women have a line on their dating profile to the effect of "if you're shorter than 6' swipe left" or whatever, but I digress.

Also, nothing about turning down someone who approaches you directly implies unrealistic expectations. Him turning down women doesn't mean he's turning them down unrealistically. Nor does a woman turning down a man at a bar imply she has unrealistic expectations. Never-the-less, both groups have them in one way or another.

[thoughtprocess11]

I have thought about the first standard a lot. Here is the truth. Most, if not all guys, don't ever want to be placed in the Friend Zone if they are single. We often times want to explore a romantic relationship even if it is unsaid. I read another poster talking about how she recently found out her best male friend of 13 years told her he has feeling for her and she says she is shocked, etc. I suspect he has had those for a long time and she seems unwilling to respect his feelings. They have been friends for a long time and there is obviously a connection there. The sad thing is he probably should consider ending the friendship all together because even though she is find with "friend zoning" him, she is actually torturing him though unintentional.

[Anonymous]

The whole point of dating is to sort through potential candidates and find the person that is closest match. That means it is to be expected that there will be women that come and go that do not fit you. Move on to the next. Eventually one will come along that fits.

While the desire to avoid this phase to attain a stable and consistent relationship is understandable, it is really the primary reason marriages have a high failure rate. People do not vet their potential partners well enough. They settle or compromise to unequal ratios for the sake of not going through the process, and it blows up in their face.

[Anon-ymous1]

Well said.

[binarybabe001]

I think so and I don't like it either because there's so many guys walking around out there who are compatible with girls and would make great boyfriends or husbands but a lot of girls wouldn't give them a chance because they don't meet with a few qualifications on these women's lists of what they require to date a man. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to throw away a chance at happiness, companionship and sex because of a stupid list of criteria.

[castratedwhiteguy]

Great article! These are the three types of guys who always seem to score with women:

1. Financially successful: These types of guys can be short, fat and ugly but if the money is right than they can have any girl they want.

2. Good bone structure and six pack abs: Without broad shoulders and a slim waste line you'll look like a sack of shit in any clothes you wear. And women certainly notice and judge.

3. The bad ass hip hop prison fuck boy: Many women seem to need the drama of getting into relationships with abusive assholes. Well, there's no accounting for taste.

Personally, I don't fit into any of these three categories, so that's one reason why I just don't bother with the hassle of dating...