Don't Wait to Make Your Move. You Must Kiss or Have Sex on the FIRST Date.

[Apope16]

Since the breakup of a two year long relationship, I have been a Vagabond of sorts in the dating scene. I am an above average looking guy but by no means a model. I am not incredibly tall, I am only 5ft, 8 inches. I am not rich. I dont have a car.

Somehow I have managed to date 19 women over the last couple of years. Out of the 19 women I went on dates with, 15 (79%) of them led to 2nd dates. I turned down 3 (16%) women after the 1st date and 1 (5%) woman chose not to go on another. I am not a man whore. I actually did like the 15 ladies I went on a 2nd date with.

Just 4 (27%) of my 15 second dates earned came from me being a gentleman and not attempting to kiss them on date 1. 11 out of 15 (73%) of my second dates came after kissing them on the first date. Even more surprising, 9 out of 15 (60%) of my second dates came after having sex after the first date. Out of the 9 women I had sex with, 7 (or 78%) led to longer term relationships or flings.

Based on my experience, if you try to kiss someone on the first date, there is a 53% chance you will get a second date. If you invite them to your place there is a 47% change you get a second date.

The next person is one swipe away on these dating apps. Sure, I have tried to be a gentleman and charming. I have tried to be polite and wait to make any rash moves. What I have learned is that it is a bad strategy. Its about sex and romance. But in those first few dates its about raw sex. You are thinking it and they are thinking it. Have a great time, enjoy that person's company. Truly have some deep and insightful conversation. But at the end of the day you need to flirt, say something charming, and ask consent for a kiss. Aaand when the night is over, you need to ask consent to have sex. If you dont realize that humans are motivated by the fire in their loins then your options will be limited. Take these stats as advice. Look back on your life and what worked. Being "polite" likely didn't work.

[lightbulb27]

You have no problems winning dates, that's a lot within a short time. Trained as a player? It is not easy to win that many on online dating, so you must have a good presence and rapport.

You are hitting on some good topics to understand and diagnose from the male side... when we really are interested in someone, why do we lose them? It is possible for us to mess up and scare them off, or not give what they were looking for. Its' frustrating, makes us question what we did wrong.

Some women cannot move that fast, and he would lose them. Most, if not all women, are looking for something... generally speaking an emotional connection and something that says "go forward". Obviously, quite a few will get physical, that is the nature of things. I'd certainly say by date 2-3 if no contact, he is toast... and/or frustrating her. She needs and wants to know there is interest.

communication is so important these days, man leading where he wants to go and paying attention to her comfort.

Beyond this... I'll say there is more going on in mating than sex obviously, that is an initial set of chemicals, but there is also sub conscious mind aligning and working out it's love. The sub conscious is who is making the decisions.

[Apope16]

Im not trained as a player. Honestly. I think I was "the best friend " of ladies for 20 years. Then at age 27 i lost my virginity and it all clicked.

[lightbulb27]

almost parallel reality, I did same for longer. My bottom line, we have to lead... with our energy, she has to perceive the value. they are looking for this. there's good videos out there that explain this in diff ways, animal kingdom where there aren't words... works... they communicate intent.

[Apope16]

Totally agree!

[Anonymous]

Yep I’m in the exact same situation. I was brutally friend zoned in my teens and early 20s for being to chivalrous and nice to the girls I really liked.

Truth I WANT to take it slow and do things right. But that has never worked in my entire life. Girls keep chastising guys who move too fast as selfish manwhores who think with their dicks. Not completely true. In many case we HAVE to make a move or she gets bored, rejects and/or friendzones.

[Apope16]

Yep! You get my point! See?

[Opinion Owner]

I just put up another question about this. It seems women are completely incapable of processing even a tiny hint of what we are trying to say. It’s just sad.

[lightbulb27]

you are correct... it's a hard lesson to learn, but it is "nature". we have to learn how things work...

[Opinion Owner]

@lightbulb27 and for people who say “the friend zone doesn’t exist” are full of shit. They either have never been friend zoned or they don’t want to lose the benefits of the guys they are taking advantage of.

[Daniela1982]

So you are saying be a Ho and have sex on the first date or you won't get a 2nd? What kind of dating site do you use, Tinder? I'm sorry to break it to you but not all women are hot and horny and are looking for sex on the first or even the 5th date. If they are they are mostly bar fly types looking for one night stands. Is this the type of woman you really want for a wife or the mother of your kids? Because if she is that hot to trot do you really think she is going to be satisfied to just have one man for sex? Hell no! She will be flighty and probably cheat on you. But, you get what you pay for. You can pay little to get a Ho and suffer a lot of heartache, or pay a lot ( in dates and that) and get someone who will be loyal and a loving wife, not just for a while until she gets bored with you and wants someone else, but until death do us part. I just don't get why some people think wham, bam, thank you mam is the way to go for a good relationship. Either you aren't doing something right, or the rest of us who like long term relationships are.

[Apope16]

Women who enjoy sex aren't hos. Neither are men. They are just confident people. And sexual. I dont know why sex is such a negative thing. Lastly, I only have one sexual relationship at a time. As for where i met the ladies. Its a mix. Friendships, work, bumble, okcupid, and tinder. But most were prior friends or work. My longest relationship so to speak was okcupid and this girl who worked at my workout gym. Those were 2 months each. I lost my virginity at 27 years old. Dated and lived with my ex girlfriend 2 years. Then ladies liked me I guess.

[Daniela1982]

Sure they did, and that is why you are split up now, right? Dude, get over yourself. Confident people are not whoring around like a bunch of rabbits but are really interested in something long termed, not some one night stand which seems to be the norm anymore. Yeah, you may stretch some sexual relationship out for a couple of years but if that is all your relationship is based on then it won't last. I would think you would have figured that out by now but I think you are only in it for sex.

[Apope16]

I think the issue is you see people in black and white. For 27 years of my life i was the nice guy. The shoulder to cry on. The best friend. I was a virgin for 27 years. It didn't worked. I lost my virginity because I took a chance and kissed my ex girlfriend and it wasn't even a date. Have you lived with someone youve dated? Its a big step. Anyway, I am surprised by the reaction because I thought my dating life was normal. I didn't think that dating that much was considered "ladies man". Im a nerdy guy. I dont know why ladies liked me. I think you see confidence as a whole unit. Im confident sexually. I'm confident in romance. But in other areas im insecure. I have endured abuse and abandonment. Much of my life I didn't take risks. It took years to even kiss a girl. Im not a whore. Some people want relationships and some dont. there's nothing wrong with that. I would say that some if the girls included in the stats I actually fell in love with. One moved away. I dont see what the big deal is.

[kim45456]

Another idiot. Women have sexual desires too. Just because you are asexual, does not mean every woman is like you

[PLAY77]

Pefrectly written

[PLAY77]

Can we speak? I believe your thoughts are preetty much awesome.
You are simply talking about reality and practical life.
Acpeace77@icloud. com
Thank u for your time.

[PLAY77]

@kim45456 Rofl

Neatly said

[kim45456]

Whine

[SydneySentinel]

I'd rather be single than feel influenced by statistics about how I "should" behave in order to get a second date.

[username_ugh]

Agree.

[Apope16]

Thats cool. I say just go with the flow. That stats came tonight because a girl turned me down for a third date. I was confused and didn't understand why. I really liked her and wanted to be a nice guy you know? So I was polite, made good conversation, I didn't try to kiss her or invite her to my place for sex. I truly wanted to make a connection. So.. I looked back in the past and thought about who I dated and what worked. I wanted to help other guys out there.

[username_ugh]

I suppose it is also a question of what you want in the relationship. If sex is the goal then statistics are valuable.

[AngelLily]

Amen

[pizzalovershouse]

great point Sydney cuz not all people believe these statistics

[Kire58]

But you shouldn't have to change in order to get a second date. You still have the capacity to give consent and if guy doesn't like the way you role, ditch him and find a guy who will.

[Apope16]

@username_ugh the stats were used in order to see what attracts women for the purpose of a relationship or love. I just got broken hearted and reflected on things.

[Daniela1982]

Apollo, what works for one person may not work for another. Every guy and girl are different. You can't make generalizations and say what worked for you will work for all. Maybe the girls you were gentlemanly to were looking for something else. I really don't know how you can tell who will do what or how they will react. I just be consistent in your behavior and don't be fake to get what you want because you will probably be found out and dumped anyway.

[Daniela1982]

How do you get so many comments from one simple statement? You got more likes that some Instagram model. That really stings, if you catch my drift.

[Apope16]

@Daniela1982 I got a lot of likes because I spoke an uncomfortable truth. Guys are more open about their dating strategy. Women feel very offended and threatened when a guy exposes the games they play. Women dont want men to know that on these dating apps or walking down the street guys openly crave sexual interest. At any given time a guy has anywhere between 2 to 10 matches on a site like bumble. A woman can choose from HUNDREDS of matches. Exposing this narcissistic reality is a threat to the social order. An order for which women want to be fawned over. In reality, we as men are a cog in a machine of hundreds of dicks at a womans disposal anytime. Our character isn't relevant. Maybe good sex or a good kiss at least gets you remembered. Otherwise if you dont have money or status? she's moving on.

[Daniela1982]

Not you, SydneySentinel. I have never seen anyone get 45 likes for such a short reply. Man, I must talk too much.

[SydneySentinel]

@Daniela1982 I'm not sure why it got so many likes. I think it was short and to the point.

@Apope16 It's just disappointing to think that men or women are "playing games" when it comes to love or feelings. It makes me sad to think that either genders would manipulate or play games to begin with. It's so frustrating. Ans there's no way of knowing who is game playing or not.

[Apope16]

Nothing above says anything playing games. This is about how you respond to chemistry and attraction. If you like someone, dont hold back. Women are very emotional and in the moment people. Energy and attractions come and go in a moment. Its different than men who are stagnant. With women, you can't take that attraction for granted. If the chemistry is real then kiss her. There are moments in relationships with women where if you dont tske the risk you are friendzoned forever.

[betaTester]

Here is an uncomfortable truth, these percentages might look like it comes from many numbers, but it is actually a single data point... to predict a population trend with data from one person's experience is like to draw a line knowing one point lol they are hardly statistics.
I'd be more interested in the average success rate for different guys!

[OlderAndWiser]

1. What "works" is a matter of definition. If your goal is to have sexual relationships with many different women, then your strategy is obviously successful. Although you said that, "I am not a man whore," you also said that you had sex with 9 different women in the last two years. I think that many people would, indeed, call you a man whore based on those statistics, but if you disagree. . . what is your definition of "man whore?"

2. Whether a man is looking for a sexual conquest or a long term relationship, I firmly believe that exhibiting self-confidence is a primary trait that many women seek in a companion. However, inviting a woman to get into your bed on the first date is only one way to exhibit confidence. Also, for many women, such an invitation would lead to them rejecting you for a second date.

3. By your report, you did not have that experience of rejection. That leads me to believe that you were selecting women who you thought would be receptive to a short term sexual relationship. So this pool of women is not representative of the women that other users might date while looking for a long term relationship.

4. I believe that doing something to express physical attraction on a first date is important. It sends the signal that I am not looking for another friend, that I am attracted to the woman, and that I have hopes of developing a romantic relationship if we find that we are compatible. I ALWAYS try to hold a lady's hand on a first date. If I sense that she is receptive, I will try to give her a good night kiss on the lips (but no tonsil examination with my tongue.)

5. I think I am a good person but I don't consider myself to be an extraordinary catch for a woman. Therefore, if she is willing to get in bed with me on a first date, I assume that she does this with most first dates. That is not the kind of woman I want in a long term relationship.

[Amy_Theo]

I will try my best to cushion my words but please try and find it in yourself to forgive me if I fail.
I applaud you for taking the time to do the math and substantiating your opinion with statistics. From someone who's lazy as hell to someone who's clearly not, kudos to you, my friend.
Now that that's out of the way, there are 2 things that I believe needs to be addressed with regards to this piece.
1. It's something else entirely when the results of a survey conducted"properly" (keeping in mind the precautions and possible bias and when the sample used for the survey is a collection of people of different kinds, ages, ethnicities, etc.) is used but that is not the case with our statistics. The women who make the sample in your survey are not a reflection of women in general. A possible condition to have considered is this: unless you randomly went out with random women, I can't help but assume you picked who you "dated" based on your personal preferences. Studies show that people are attracted to counterparts who share a lot of similarities with them. So theoretically speaking, most, if not all, of your partners more often than not expect the same thing from a relationship that you do. That's not a bad thing. To each their own. But it isn't something that you can generalize to a general population.
2. It's rather condescending when you generalize a behaviour (especially about a sensitive topic as sex and relationships, sensitive in quite a few cultures atleast) based on the results of a survey conducted, well, incorrectly. As a woman who holds different opinions on sex and romantic relationships and who has female friends and loved ones who also hold different opinions, your "advice" makes us want to slap a wall out of frustration.
I understand that your intention was to help other people who are probably confused on what to do in a relationship and I applaud and thank you for that. But your advice as such makes a lot of people (including myself) wonder how the hell humanity became quite so narrow-minded in a way...
I wish you the best.
P. S. I am NOT admonishing you for your lifestyle. I have no right to or any intention to. I just don't want people to be influenced by factually incorrect information.

[VIVANT]

You were very polite. I don’t think this should be insulting ☺️

[nightdrot]

You certainly got this down to a science, I'll give you that. That said, whatever the "science" may tell you, I am not sure that a society that strips away the pretenses and just works that way would be a good society.

Of the two women that I had sex with on the first date, one relationship did not last past the third date and the other lasted about a year but ended in the most painful experience of my life. Eventually I got her pregnant - not on the first date - and then she aborted my baby without telling me and it shattered me.

Luckily, not immediately, I met a gal. I was extremely wary and it is fair to say that she chased me by being kind and funny and gentle. Eventually we started dating and then moved in together - we don't want to be married - and now we have three children and I am, without doubt, the happiest and sappiest and more in love man on the planet. I cannot imagine my life without my girlfriend and the three little gifts she has given me.

The point being that your analysis conflates quantity with quality. Yes, human beings have instincts rooted in evolution. Males and females, in different ways to be sure, want sex. It is our instinct, at the most base level, to mate and reproduce and share the physical intimacy that comes with that.

However, we actually want and need more than that. You will rack up the numbers, but over the long run that is not an assurance that you will find someone who makes you feel loved and respected and cared for and feel every ounce your manhood with all that entails.

Over the course of my dating life, I had sex with 11 women, by my best reckoning. Some went well for a time, others not. However, none of that was indicative of what made me happy.

Don't get me wrong. I have zero problem with sex outside of marriage and casual sex. Our instinct for sex is natural and - this is key - so long as we are willing to take the consequences of our choices, there is nothing wrong with enjoying sex and seeking that sexual relief.

We have natural biological instincts and satisfying them is perfectly understandable and generally healthy. Moreover, we have sex as part of social bonding and "making a connection." The strictures limiting sex to marriage are sensible and rooted in the need to limit the male instinct to mate with as many females as possible.

However, having sex with someone is zero assurance that you will find that person who will make you feel loved and wanted and who you know you would die to protect. My girlfriend and our three little munchkins are that to me. That is something else and something special and there is almost zero relationship between any chance of you finding that and the number of women you have sex with.

By all means have sex with as many women as will have sex with you. The sheer physical relief is healthy and satisfying. Just don't make the mistake of supposing that doing so will lead to finding that person around which your whole universe will turn.

[AlienParasite]

I think it's ok to kiss or have sex in the first date if both feel ok with it. Though I doubt it's a good formula for long term relationship, despite you said you got "long relationships" from those experiences. Let be serious, 7 long term relationships in only the last couple of years sound like 7 short term relationships.

I agree it's possible to kiss or have sex in the first date and get in a lasting relationship... though... I don't think it's possible if the date it's a complete stranger like in dating apps. I myself had sex with my SO in our first date and we have been together 4 years by now, BUT he wasn't a complete stranger, I did hang out with him and some friends before any date and by the time of our first date we knew each other for 2 years.

So, I think that it's ok if someone who is searching for a short term relationship or casual sex to be direct and go for it. Though if the person truly aims for a long term relationship, they would hardly ever get a real one having sex or kissing in the first date with a complete stranger (it's only possible to work if the person it's not a stranger).

[SweedyPie]

I decided to message you... Ok this is weird haha but anyways I decided to message you and saw that I can't. I don't know it was a weird spur of the moment empathy related thing. Moving along. I understand your logic, with the very valid (no offense) type of people in today's society... So I get it.

I guess what hasn't happened is you haven't met someone able to engage you intellectually or who was able to hold proper conversations and work with you to find other ways of slicing things up without the kissing and sex on the first date. I would most likely be horrified if a person I met for the first date, tried to kiss me then and there. Hahaha so it depends. Maybe try changing the location for first dates and second dates. Do fun stuff that you wouldn't normally do.

See, yeah great sex will attract them to the second date or third, but sex is just sex. You have to build the connection itself, encourage open communication etc etc. If that stuff doesn't work then maybe they aren't worth wasting your time having sex with (unless you're into that which if you are the go forth and prosper). So I say challenge yourself to try something different

[SweedyPie]

Autocorrect kills me lol I'll take it off sigh.

I said
*VAPID type of people in today's society
*SPICING things up without kissing

[Apope16]

Its cool. Yeah. I dont know why you couldnt message me. Thanks for your reply. I think the controversy has been that the ladies think I have been a player all my life. That not true. Most of my life I have been the best friend. Just me and all the ladies at the club. I changed because I learned that women want guys to lead. And women act based on emotion and impulse. Its not about kissing. Its about building connection and chemistry. You kiss at the end of the date. You flirt during. You certainly make some reference to sex or underwear, etc. Just having a fun conversation about underwear style can make a girl horny.

[curiousnorway]

Not all women and men are the same, so it's important to keep that into the consideration too. I won't have sex on a first date if I wants a long term relationship because of it's good to know the person better before to find out if it may work out or not. Going too fast often ends up in more disappointment and misunderstandings. Since I knows my own intentions, therefor I may feel perfectly comfortable kissing a girl on the first date if I finds her attractive. I do still understand not all girls would feel the same though.

If I was a girl dating a guy, I would be more careful. I know many men from some cultural backgrounds interpret a kiss as something sexual and that they wants to go faster. The women however may want to wait and take it slower to get to know the man better. The best option is to avoid getting pregnant with the wrong person, because of the children either ends up with a single parent in poverty, adoption, in an orphanage care or as aborted. While the man may end up with no custody right and has to pay child support, the woman would be pregnant for 9 months and give birth to it - so the situation isn't ideal for anyone. Condoms breaks and pills fails as well.

Therefor it's important to take it slow if one of the parts thinks it goes too fast. Often women have different needs and wishes as men too.

[Dongtai]

There’s nothing wrong with not getting a second date. You don’t need to rely on what you call statistics. There isn’t a blueprint to dating. Just be yourself and you’ll attract the right people.

Just because you get a second date with a girl you kissed doesn’t mean you’ll get a second one with the next girl you kiss on the first date. Your data proves it. It’s not 100%.

I feel like I see a lot of guys relying on theories and data to avoid what they consider failure with the opposite sex. By doing that you’re constantly quieting “your” voice, your true self and allowing someone else to tell you how to be you.

Just be yourself. Master yourself. If you do that you won’t care about statistics or data because it won’t matter. Your validation will come from within not outside.

I’ve dated plenty of women, had sex with more than I can complain about and I’ve had my share of relationships. I will say that in my experience, the girl falls for “you”.

It’s not the action that makes the man. The man makes the action. That’s why you see some girls going for one guy who does one thing, but reject another guy who does the same thing.

BE YOU and do it with PRIDE

[piscies]

Ladies and gentlemen this is not a good start of a relationship it starts with a friendship first and foremost and to do activities and to build a list of your goals and interests short and long term and sex is not a way to go and it is a commandment as a illegal move and as a sinful act that gos to hell and breaking promises and dating 19 girls is so very wrong to do that no one should do that and does not give the ultimate respect to the other girls while dating relationship's and I am way different than all this big time I would never do that at all and I am a pure gentlemen and I really do have special needs and a very sensitive person who will give girls and adult ladies their ultimate respect on what they rightfully deserve and considering when I was in high school there is guys that tell me in what look at but I am a real different person than that because when I look at the ladies I usually look at their ultimate dreams to come true and their life and ladies I will be honest to you and my family wants me to fall in love with someone who is a God fearing person and it does not matter what job that you work for as long as you are passionate to people and who is willing and who is fully committed to stay in love with someone with special needs person

[Estaroze]

Hmmm I seriously doubt that. I want to sex after marriage.
And I haven't seen a guy who didn't want to do second date with me.
I think date is just about knowing each other and spending fun time.
If you must do something during the date in order to get him, it simply means he is not the one for you. And you can get the right one for you when you act like yourself and showing what you belive.
Furthermore, girls who like to have sex on the first date are more likely to get the guy who calculates the number of sex he had on the first dates and make a statistics out of it.

[SzinNapalm]

your absolutely right my friend the women I pounced on like a fucking tiger I had the pleasure of having them in my life the longest but not all the time once in Vancouver this swedish girl rode me around literally for the week and come to find out I was just "Sancho" I should have know I found out a few days into it but I didn't care she was hot and all around adorable.
I had this one girl that was a roommate not like me she would talk down to me and I tried to get to know her but she knew what I was doing and would head me off not giving me a chance. then one night I was watching a movie in the Livingroom and no one was home I realized she was siting really close to me so I was like fuck it I went for the diving kiss across the floor then we fucked she didn't really talk to me after that but a couple days later she came into my room again when I was watching a movie but she kept l little distance we just chilled quietly (it was like she almost wanted to tell me "I know you wanted to fuck me so I gave you some were still cool but I don't want a steady guy in my life") The best thing for all you guys out there don't try to be what a woman wants you can only be a man who pretends to be something else or a man that knows what he is. and behavioral attributes of women were given to them befor coming to earth to live out there next life buy having them put their hand in a bucket and pull out 10 pieces of folded paper with attributes written on the paper. don't try to guess its done that way to make a man live blindly to the world to see if he is cut out to wear his flesh or not and so is decided the destiny of his soul

[sagevalentineee]

I mostly agree with you. Men who really know what they want, and go for it are actually a bit more likely to get another date. If you didn't really display obvious interest in me... I wouldn't be so eager. My boyfriend, was very forward with me on our first date, he would touch me, (respectfully) after our first date, he kissed me and did not give me a choice, he made sure we had set up the second date before he left that night. It was good because I daydreamed of him all week.

You do have to be careful though. There are risks to being so forward. If she is shy or conflicted you may put her off. What my boyfriend did only worked because he knew me very well enough to know that I wanted him to do what he did. So be careful of reluctant girls, I really don't want any false accusations of sexual harassment for you guys

[Apope16]

Good points. Thanks. And congrats!

[Comawhite666]

If you try to do more than kiss on the first date with me, you won't be getting another one. I will not have sex with anyone until It's an established exclusive relationship for at least a month. If a guy can't wait that long then they're not worth my time.

[Apope16]

Thats fine. Nobody is saying that is bad. The article is advice to guys on how to increase their chances in a world where women can message hundreds of guys with one swipe. I know this because I have been in situation where there is an over abundance of dating options. It doesn't matter how nice they are, those who provide immediate gratification get center focus and priority. Went on a date last night. Had great convo. didn't kiss her. she's not responded back about another date.

[hellionthesagereborn]

I can see your point, I am a bit old fashioned and I don't like to move fast, I like to make sure she is worth my time first and needless to say, it doesn't work out well. That said I would ask what kind of women you are looking for, what is their age range and cultural background (I mean no disrespect but in my experience certain groups, specifically within the black community, are much more quick and to have and more focused on sex. Cultural back ground could affect your results (the youngest generation for instance seems to be most conservative then the millennials so they having different cultures may get different results, black culture in the US may have much different results then Asian culture (based upon statistics that is), if the women are older they may be more willing to give it up in an attempt to keep you around etc.).

[ImSparkly]

So if i'm just another twat in your Tinder queue, you can go perform autofellatio and get on your way.

If we f* on the first date, often there isn't a second as it seems like you really dont care to know me, are impulsive, and just want to do your thing. I can be up for that, but its a hookup.

I rarely kiss someone of the first date if I'm really interested. I also won't wait three days to communicate with him if im interested too. Its like a job interview, drop your thank you note off in the mail when you leave.

[Apope16]

Riiight. Or you can see it as a guy really does like you. he's attracted. And wants to kiss you. He also feels pressure because if he doesn't kiss you, then you go home to 50 other matches on tinder.

[ImSparkly]

Thank you for dating me, You will be screwed in the order in which I swiped right.

[little_bird1]

Pretty accurate for people 30+ years old. If you don't kiss on the first date, there most likely won't be a second one. Also, I like the idea of asking for a kiss! It is sweet and respectful, and it actually gives a girl the opportunity to say no if she doesn't feel it. Surprise kisses on the first date can go horribly wrong.
But I don't agree with the sex thing. It's too pushy, even if asked politely. I think a girl should initiate this, whenever she is ready.

[Apope16]

Thsnks. I always wondered if asking was tacky and weak

[little_bird1]

Not in the slightest, it is perfect!

[Cherokeehp]

There’s nothing wrong with going on dates with many women, and there’s nothing wrong with kissing and having sex on the first date. It just all depends on if the two people like each other and what their comfortable with. You don’t have to kiss the girl or sleep with her to secure a second date, but if she’s willing to kiss/have sex with you on the first date then that either means she really likes you, or she wanted a one night stand. Kissing and sex on the first date are definitely not a MUST.

[Apope16]

True. I am not saying it is a must. I am saying that asking consent is a must. Also if you do want a second date... you have to at least kiss her. Otherwise your chances are slim. Women are emotion based. Just kissing them on a first or second date ignites the butterflies.

[Cherokeehp]

You don’t have to kiss her either. Some women don’t like to get physical on the first date.

[Daniela1982]

Sex on first date = Ho in most instances. Plus you will never hear the end of it when they cry they are pregnant or caught a STD. Really? Did they think they were going to a party?

[moo07]

I wonder about the number, statistics and percentage that u shared my friend,
Let me simply telling u that it's completely inappropriate. But also let me tell you there is no static rule.
Simply kiss her if u felt that she wants u to kiss her, because in this case she will see u stupid person if u don't do it. But again it depends on ur sense.
Can u understand her feelings language or not. That's the key.
Sometimes fingers touching is everything to her, sometimes if u completely ignoring any kind of touches.
But the rule is : No Rule

[Apope16]

I agree with you that sharing the data is not appropriate. But I did it out of curiousity so I could understanding what I was doing wrong. I just didn't want to go through heart ache you know? So what if there was a way where I could statistically increase my chances to not feel sadness and loss?

The stats that I gave are accurate. I didn't think the stats were a big deal until people responded like I was Casanova. I had no idea that my sex life has been luckier than most. But you make a great point about going by instinct.

[CreativeMumble]

All women aren't the same. And sure, you can use statistics as to how to act, but then you never really get to know that person properly.
It's more about reading the mood, the signal and knowing what kind of person stands before you.

Also, it sounds like many men thinks there are two kinds of ways to act, either be a proper gentleman or a complete player.

[VIVANT]

It wouid Fake me a very very long time to have sex and I’d he in a relationship first. However I know plenty of people have sex quick. No judgement. The problem I have with this is choosing between being polite and something else.

You can be polite AND and have sex. I prefer politeness lol You did mention you ask consent with high so that’s perfectly fine. I’m not sure why you think sex us impolite If two consent

Also... we can’t really know if the no first date sex / yes first date sex, was cause or cause or coincidence

They could have just liked you AND wanted first date sex.

They could have just liked you AND not wanted first date sex..

[VIVANT]

Would*
Take*
Be*
😊

[NyfikenSyd]

I'm sorry but your post is confusing correlation and causality. It is true that you kissed them, it is try that you had sex with some of them, but you have absolutely no idea if these things affected their decision to go on a second date or not.
It could just as well be down to which weekday, what you ate, if you wore a shirt, if they recently left another relationship, and so on. Or combinations there of.

You might be right, but there is a major chance you are only misinterpreteting your data. For next time I'd suggest asking the women what led to the second date instead. You also need more guys and dates to get any kind of credible information.

[Shellyworld]

I’ve to break you but if I accepted men’s sex requests all the time during dates. Then I’d be slut-shamed in my neighbourhood. Sex is only for long term relationships /marriage. And not for “trying to get to know whether we can be lovers forever” - you mean reverse dating like in Scandinavia, how can you be sure it’s love when you're blinded by sex?

[Apope16]

Sex is for if you are attracted. Period. Even if its pleasure or fun.