Nice guys DO finish last. It's sad, but it's true.

[Anonymous]

As a guy, let me tell you something that I've learned. Nice guys, DO finish last. I hate to even say it myself because for so long I wanted to prove that phrase wrong. I USED to fit the description of a nice guy (genuine, charming, funny, respectfull, etc), now I don't even care anymore to be honest. I had many friends that were girls who would always come to me if their boyfriends were mistreating them, and I was ALWAYS there to help, only to see them spit on my face to go out with another douche bag.

There's a reason why I'm still a virgin, not because I'm TOO nice, but because NO girls ever want the nice guy, they ALWAYS go for the bad boys. Nice guys are stepped on left and right, and girls are always complaining why they can never find a nice genuine guy. I've not only seen this with my own eyes, I've LIVED IT.

It PAINS me to see nice girls get hurt by the douche bags I know exist out there, but when I go out of my way to comfort them and let them know everything will be alright, what happens? Go on, take a wild guess. It's like I don't even exist, and they do the exact same thing as before, ignore everything I've told them and go out with another tool. It's gotten to a point where it's so predictible, it's almost a joke. We see memes of this sort of stuff everyday and laugh at them, but here's the thing, there's TRUTH behind it.

If I ever had a girlfriend, she'd be my everything. I'd treat her like a queen (not so much that's it's obsessively weird) but I'd treat her like a lady, because that's how she deserves to be treated. I wouldn't (I don't even do it now) demand for sex and our relationship would be an open sort of friendship. We'd go crazy together, laugh, share memories, you get the point. Now, it doesn't even seem like girls want that. Here's what I see. The girl goes out with this tool, gets hurt, and then the nice guy steps in. The girl does acknowledge the nice guy, I'll give her that, but ONLY if it benefits her, meaning if he isn't any help for her getting another boyfriend, he's basically useless. Then the girl goes out with another tool, thinking she can change him (as in make HIM the nice guy by ridding him of his "bad boy" ways), only to get hurt again. And then the WHOLE cycle starts all over again. Well you know what? I'm sick and tired of being treated like shit. In my eyes, the more AGGRESIVE men seem to get what they want. Is that what I have to become to get a girl? Why should I save myself while she goes out and parties, making poor decisions and basically doing everything us "NICE GUYS" advise not to do. Do we even exist anymore?

I can go on and on about this, but truth is, NICE GUYS FINISH LAST, and guess what, it's NOT OUR FAULT. Open your eyes girls and start treating the REAL men right. Truth is, you already have an idea about what kind of men are nice, you just don't want to go for them because your standards are higher. Am I right? Someone PLEASE prove me wrong about this.

Lets take a little quiz. Who is more likely to be the nice guy? That kid who got straight A's and wasn't mister popular or Joe Stud back in highschool, OR the ACTUAL Joe Stud who drives a Ferrari and has a new girlfriend every week (not to mention his devilishly handsome good looks). I know I keep saying this, but to all you men out there who have seen this themselves: Don't even bother helping her if she keeps coming back with the same old story. She's USING YOU. Even if you think she's hot, guess what, she obviously doesn't have the same feelings towards you, right? Otherwise she'd be dating you instead of going for other douche bags. And to all you women, don't give us that bullshit about "oh where ever can I find a nice, genuine real man?" I know y'all are smarter than that, guess what? Beggars can't be choosers. Us nice men aren't that hard to find, and truth is you already have a guy friend who you already treat like shit. Why not date him? Because he isn't the Prince Charming you expected? Maybe not physically, but you'd be surprised.

I end my rant with this. Both genders can play their part at finding the one. Believe me, us guys are picky too. Truth is not everyone gets the hot girl or has a happily ever ending story. Be grateful with what you have and enjoy it while it lasts. Live each day with a more open mindset. Look for your significant other in places you haven't looked before. That doesn't mean go to late night clubs and hook up with the nearest hot guy/girl you see. Many aspects have clouded are minds of what love is supposed to be, and I'm not trying to point any fingers here....cough....cough....Disney....cough...

[MrOracle]

"it's NOT OUR FAULT."

And this is where you are completely wrong. It absolutely IS your fault.

You're like a teen who went to Disneyland for the first time, and you can't wait to ride one of the great rides, but after waiting all day long, you never get to ride anything. Then you blame it on everyone but yourself, never realizing that YOU are at fault, because you never even got in line for the ride! Instead, you stood all day in the observation area waiting for someone to "invite" you or something.

If you are "waiting", then that means that you aren't doing anything to MAKE IT HAPPEN, and that's YOUR fault.

Let's say that if you want a girl, you're going to have to ask out 100 girls before you get a "yes" (not far from the truth), and I don't mean simply walk up to a random girl and ask out of the blue, but rather you need to spend at least 10 minutes talking to a given girl, decide she would be attractive enough to at least go on a date with (she doesn't have to be "forever perfect"), and THEN ask her.

Now, assume those are the rules of the game. A confident guy is gonna knock out 10-20 "asks" a week, at least. It's not going to be too long before he gets a girlfriend, because he'll have gotten to 100 in a couple of months at most.

A typical "nice guy" may ask out ONE girl every six months (or less). At that rate, it may take you YEARS before you get a girl, and it's no more likely that that girl is going to be the "right" girl than it is for the confident guy who found a girl in 2 months. In fact, his odds are better, because he'll have more experience selecting likely girls, and being in a relationships, than you do, so odds are he'll do a better job picking than you do.

Finding a good, reasonably attractive, COMPATIBLE girl is going to take EFFORT, and it's going to take EXPERIENCE, and you have no one but yourself to blame if you don't even stand in line for the ride.

[JustinX9]

true that i guess i'm one of the typical "nice guys"

[BumbleSuperBee]

I can't evem read stuff aboout this anymore. This is bullshit. You guys, those girls u think are "nice" are all bitches cuz bitches go after douchebags. Would u stop chasing those girls? There are many many girls who are into nicce guys like u. Take me as an example: i was once attracted to a guy because of his personality even tho he wasn't very good looking. He was like the nicest, Nd by 'nice', i mean the nicest guy i've known. So yes. There are girls who want a nice guy. And please stop saying that they do finish last because in my world, they don't!
You just gotta know how to choose the girl. Don't go for the superficial, full makeup, oh-so-innocent face but evil on the inside kinda girl. I bet a million 'actual' nice girls liked u but u didn't notice them.

[ManuelMarquez]

It is rare for attractive girls like you around your age to like nice guys.

[BumbleSuperBee]

That's too bad @ManuelMarquez

[ManuelMarquez]

Yeah@BumbleSuperBee, most like cocky guys.

[myTake Owner]

You know what? FUCK everyone who disagrees with me. I'm not a doormat or a tool like everyone is saying. This is my opinion about MY experiences and I'm just telling you what I've seen. Hell no I don't chase after girls with big tits or a giant ass who acts like a real bitch. Do I like that stuff? Yes, I'd be lying if I said I didn't, but when I look for a girlfriend I try and see how I'd be with her in the next couple months\years. Even nice girls did this shit to me, well guess what. Nice guys just got another team mate lost because I'm not operating like this anymore. It's gotten me nowhere. Jerks get what they want, even the nice girls, and that's what I want. So fuck it! And guess what. To all the people who hate when us "nice guys" post about this stuff, you'll just have to shove it up your ass because as long as you girls treat us like shit, YOU'll have to listen to us bitch and moan about it, kinda like how we listen to y'all bitch and moan. Ironic isn't it?

[BumbleSuperBee]

Geez I was just trying to make u feel better. And I meant what I said. And please stop referring to "us girls" bacause we are NOT all the same and it's offensive to me to hear you talk like that about "all" girls. Maybe what u said is true about most girls but I would never be interested in a jerk. I was once attracted by this guy who was really handsome and all but once we started talking I realised he was actually a 'jerk' and I refused him when we asked me out. So no, we don't all go for looks. And I repeat, we are not all the same. Period.

[bro25]

I am 100% with u im a nice who got a cold heart at a young age because of society's women today they chase their own tails then wonder why they can't catch it

[Galden]

NICE GUY? DOUCHE BAG, OR WEMP.
WHAT ARE YOU?
Ok, first, you are going after the wrong girls, you think becouse if your the " nice guy " they will go for you over the man that abused them? Look up codependency.
2nd, your quiz. Ok fine, many girls would go for the macho man with 100,000 million. And what about you? If that hot sexy girl, the one you think of when you touch yourself worth millions wanted you as a boy toy? What would you say?

DOUCHE BAG.
Are you playing the nice guy role to get the girl. Look she can cry when you are holding her. When you are touching her. Now you gave her comfort and you want more. You didn't ask for sex, but is that what you wanted as you were holding her?

WEMP.
OK MAN UP!!!
Ask any real girl what she wants and you will get many answers. Howerver one thing remains the same. THEY WANT A MAN!!! You said " open frendship " what the hell is that? Sounds to me like you are saying ( please be my GF and you can be with other men, as long as you tell them your my GF first ) and I will not even ask for sex.. They can get that from there " OPEN FRIENDS"

From what i am feeling from your post. Yes you are a nice guy. Yes you want a girl.( thats normal) but you are not a man yet!! I can not see your age. Is it 14,16, or 20? If you are under 18 you are going through a hard time in life. The answer to your problem is simple. MAN UP!!! Women want a man. It is ok to be a nice guy. Trust me, i am also a "nice guy" but i am a man above that..
My wife will bully me all the time becouse i get emotional. But she tells me the reason she married me was becouse i have a kind heart. Make no mistake about this. I am the man of the house! And she knows this. She also respects this.. I have gotten mad at her many times, and she will say something like " well just sell my car then, and i will just stay home all the time" very mad wife!!!
I will semply look her in the eye and tell her NO. You will not be happy that way, AND STOP A CHILD!!

[Galden]

Stop acting like a child..
( no idea how that happened)

Realy its all about MAN UP !!
Do not get me wrong, i am not a tyrant. Hahaha my wife runs the home!! And i have no problem with that. It is her job. I support the home, she runs the home. But when problems come up, and they will. I am the one who makes the decison. Please all you haiters out there do not hate this. If my wife is better equiped to make the decison then that is what we will do. You are a team, please use all the resorces you have to make the best decison. And for all you men out there, give into your wifes wishes 75 percent of the time :-)

[BumbleSuperBee]

YES! Precisely!! If only all 'nice guys' would uunderstand this..

[lumos]

WHEN WILL YOU GUYS STOP WHINING ABOUT THIS BULLSHIT OH MY GOD.

Why do you think that just being NICE can get you a girlfriend? ANYONE can be nice. Being nice is not some incredible fucking achievement that you should get a medal AND a girlfriend for. 3958734894574843975 other guys are just like you, "nice". What makes you any different from them? What makes you think that you're so goddamn special? What makes you think that you're entitled to a girlfriend just because you're "NICE"? "Nice" is such a goddamn bland word as well. I don't understand why anyone would want to take THIS much pride in being "nice" when it's literally such an overused and boring word to associate yourself with.
"Nice guys" such as yourself really aren't that nice. You're self-entitled. You're selfish. You're being "nice" just because you think you'll get something for it, not because it actually feels good to be a good person. You're trying to manipulate girls into being with you by pretending to care and by pretending to be "nice", just because you think it'll make them fall at your feet and worship you. And when you don't get what you want? You start whining, throwing yourself pity-parties, you start hating on all the girls out there (most of which haven't actually done anything wrong to deserve that hatred), you become bitter, you start insulting girls for the hell of it, etc etc etc. Do you know how many "nice guys" have approached me, especially online? They start off by trying to have a conversation with me, explaining that they want to be my friend, and that they'd like to get to know me. When I don't reply, or if I'm short with my answers, or if I flat out tell them I don't have the time/I'm not interested, I suddenly become a bitch. And a whore. And suddenly they start threatening to kill me. Yeah, they're super nice.
See why I'm so tired of this bullshit? You "nice guys" act all high and mighty as if you're amazing just for being "nice"...

[lumos]

and then suddenly, after talking to you for a while, it turns out that you're actually the douchebags that you supposedly hate "SO DAMN MUCH!1!1!!"

[peoplethingy]

I really hate this discussion, because it sort of implies that people aren't dynamic. I had better luck with the ladies as I got older, probably because everyone around me grew up. My social circles included people more like-minded with me and I developed a better grasp on my emotions. I mean, girls grew up too. And that was nice. So what really happened? Should he be throwing an on-line rant because he's upset? Probably not. I think, I probably went after "bad girls" When I was his age, lol. They were, you know, interesting right? And it's probably easier for a nice girl to get a bad boy than it is for a nice boy to get a bad girl... Probably. But then, you know, shit got better. Everyone grew up, and we all were more comfortable in our own shoes. It sounds shitty, but that's just growing up. And maybe he should be focused on the positive. Like, these people want to be his friends at least. Right? Treasure that instead.

[ManuelMarquez]

Most nice guys aren't fake nice guys.

[myTake Owner]

U wanted the douchebag? Here ya go. FUCK everyone who disagrees with me. I'm not a doormat or a tool like everyone is saying. This is my opinion about MY experiences and I'm just telling you what I've seen. Hell no I don't chase after girls with big tits or a giant ass who acts like a real bitch. Do I like that stuff? Yes, I'd be lying if I said I didn't, but when I look for a girlfriend I try and see how I'd be with her in the next couple months\years. Even nice girls did this shit to me, well guess what. Nice guys just got another team mate lost because I'm not operating like this anymore. It's gotten me nowhere. Jerks get what they want, even the nice girls, and that's what I want. So fuck it! And guess what. To all the people who hate when us "nice guys" post about this stuff, you'll just have to shove it up your ass because as long as you girls treat us like shit, YOU'll have to listen to us bitch and moan about it, kinda like how we listen to y'all bitch and moan. Ironic isn't it?

[lumos]

Lmfao nobody really HAS to listen to anyone bitch and moan. And if you want to become a jerk just because you didn't get what you wanted when you were nice... then honey, you weren't even truly nice to begin with. You were just nice because you thought it would get you what you want. Not because you're selfless and because being a good person feels good. Lol.

[lumos]

So thanks for proving my point, basically.

[Tiger288]

I rather be nice guy with backbone than being bad boy. I always use deep scary tone when I'm calm down. I don't let people over me. If they mess with me I will mess them back. I'm from the hood like Steve Harvey said lol

[XtraJordanary]

It sounds like you've been through a lot... I'm sorry. It sucks to chase someone who won't even look at you.

However, I do disagree, because I will ONLY date nice guys. I dated one bad boy, and it was terrible.

There are a lot of reasons girls go after bad boys.

1) Chick flicks. Humble yourself and watch one. A lot of them are based around "salvation": you're the reason, I can't live without you, I am the man I am because of you. A lot of good girls want to be a man's everything. I personally don't watch chick flicks because I realize I can never be a man's everything. The idea that my love is SO fulfilling that he is totally transformed is ridiculous—hence, I like good boys.

2) We accept the love we think we deserve. You sound like you want a sweet, modest girl who doesn't know she's pretty, aka, low self-esteem. She might pick guys that treaf her terrible because she can't accept real love. Maybe she's never had it before. Has your friend been abused? It sounds like the "nurture" in you is deliberately chasing girls who want to be abused, because that's what love is to them.

3) I love nice guys, hate push-overs. I want a guy who is strong enough to tell me no kindly. The strength to resist me means that he can take care of me. Girls don't want everything they ask for—things that are free are never as valuable as something you have to work for. Maybe that's why she takes you for granted, so she'd fall in catagory #1.

As a good girl who likes good boys, maybe you should go after someone new. A girl that is confident and dignified; someone who knows that she deserves a great guy, but isn't snotty about it. If you ask her if she's pretty, she will say yes. She will expect you to treat her well, and will dump you if you don't. She wants to a prize, not a savior. She won't show a lot of cleavage or wear short shorts, and she won't be easy to find, but she will have a lot of integrity and self-respect, and that radiates.

[XtraJordanary]

wants to be a prize, not a savior*

[XtraJordanary]

One last tip: ask girls about their family life. The way their fathers treated them will be a big give away and save you a lot of time... Girls with distant/abusive fathers often go for guys like that. Girls who had good fathers generally go for better guys. This is just kind of a rule of thumb... Not perfect, but try it.

[myTake Owner]

Thank you for your response, but I disagree with your disagreement. I HAVE watched chick flicks, and I know exactly what you're talking about. Here's where you're wrong, you CAN be a mans everything, they're called NICE GUYS. Problem is, many dont see them or understand this. Nice guys value women to death. I don't mean to generalize all women in this by the way, it's just my opinion in what I've seen. He'll, I even hate it when nice GIRLS don't end up happy in their lives. That I have seen and it sickens me.

Touching back what you mentioned before, true. Movies and media have a substantial amount if control over this. Believe me us guys have high standards as well, we are special snowflakes either lol

What I'm getting at in this is I want people to try and be more accepting, and have a more own mindset in the dating world. Don't generalize just yet, hear their story, listen to them, learn where they come from.

You sound like a nice girl yourself :) hopefully all works out for you.

[XtraJordanary]

The thing is, I don't want to be a man's everything. I want to be the most important thing, but not everything.

Personally, I want us to have two independent lives that mesh into one -shrugs-. If a guy just orbits around me, I feel like there isn't any substance on his part. I love learning from my boyfriends—I have learned how to play chess, became a runner, know how to shoot a gun (different types of guns), and am learning about car engines this spring. And all of these came from my boyfriend's. I also taught two how to swim, have shared my beliefs, and my current one reads with me.

The guys that have made me their "everything"... Came off as clingy... Do you think that could be an issue?

Maybe I'm just odd, but I don't want my guy around all the time. "Distance makes the heart grow fonder". The nice guy I am currently dating, I have told him I need space. And while he's away, I do feel fonder, so when I see him, I enjoy him more.

[XtraJordanary]

Have you considered asking straight up: what's wrong with me? Why don't you find me appealing?

Tell her how you feel and to be totally honest. It might take her a minute, and she might not directly say it, but I'm sure she can give you a reason.

[bunnyy]

Most guys who are actually nice don't go around whining about being used just because they did something nice for a girl and got nothing in return, you should be nice to people because it's right not because you expect a relationship or sex from them. If you have to go around saying "I'M SO NICE!!! LOOK AT HOW NICE I AM!!! I'M NIIIICEEE!!!" you are probably not really that nice.
I have no time for bad boys OR self proclaimed "unlucky nice guys" I find them all obnoxious. My boyfriend is KIND, and no he wasn't popular, his family is kind of poor so he has nothing flashy, and he was the quiet band kid in school, yes I was attracted to him but attraction is what makes people start flirting. If you have a friend who you have a crush on and you don't tell her how the hell is she supposed to know? Girls can't read your mind, and even if she does know she can't force herself to fall for you even if she wanted to it just doesn't work like that. I'm so sick of this immature whining!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rZu-tBi7DM

[JustinX9]

guys also can't read girls mind

[Yeppeeee]

Dude I used to be the "doormat nice guy", but I woke up. Not in the way douchebags do to use women but in a far more chivalrous way. Being a nice chivilrous guy is an awesome quality but it's not everything, when have you bought a tv or a car with the label " it works!!!" Written on it? What about when it says " High definition 3D flat screen" or " luxury built convertible"? They aren't attracted to "hey I'mma douche" or " I'm a nice guy", they look at things they have, do, or say. It wouldn't kill you to get a gym membership or do sit-ups/push-ups, when you ask a girl out bring roses to the date or take her somewhere exciting, and the hardest but surest thing to do is work on your speech. Not having anything to say or wit behind your words signals your insecure, I could recommend a few books but you have to put it in practice.

I can't guarantee success at dating models or having girls you date approach you on dirty fantasies ( though I've had the pleasure of both ^~^ ) but I can guarantee you'll drop the "door mat" prefix to mr. Nice guy. All you have to do is put effort in bettering yourself.

P. s. It seems you been falling victim to rebounds. It's ok to show the lady you care, but be clear that your not gonna be a rebound and that she should tell you when she feels out of that stage.

[MaskedSanity]

Listen to this man, take owner.

[thetundrawolf]

Unfortunately many people are too willing to compromise in life and end up having part of their needs and desires met by someone, but still being hungry for love in other areas.

Which to me is why the women you are describing still go running to you when their bad boy ends up treating them wrong.

The truth is this is a cruel, hard world. Women want, and need a man who will protect them. Who has the balls and the guts to do what it takes to keep her, and her children safe.

It's not misogynistic, it's survival. It's hardwired into the heart of every honest woman.

But deep down these women also crave genuine love, devotion, and affection. Not many men are bad asses with strong biceps who are in tune with their hearts and willing to love their women like she has saved his life and rescued him from loneliness.

Usually it's one or the other.

So she goes to him for comfort and protection, satisfying that need, and then comes to you when her heart desires something... softer and more loving.

In a way she is having an emotional affair with you.

Strange, isn't it?

Unfortunately for her her heart will be forever divided in two. Her bad boy will see that, and know he does not have all of her. Thusly he will not dedicate all of himself to her. (And why should he? She's holding her heart back. It's an unequal equation.)

She'll feel it and run to you in turn until her heart "feels" (Feels and IS are two very different things) satisfied.

Really, instead of being mad, you should pity her, because she doesn't have the guts to devote all of who she is to him. Or you for that matter.

This type of woman will never truly know love, and will always have a fractured heart.

It's sad, but that's the way it is in this fallen world.

[tommi22]

So... you're a last place finisher? Let me tell you a story...

Several years ago my martial art group had a particularly bad ass whupping at a regional competition. Our Sensei saw our slumped shoulders, our eyes cast down to the ground, some with a comforting arm around someone's shoulder. He ordered us into a circle and ordered us to stand in the 'ready to strike' position. Once there he told us to look into the eyes of the person standing across from us. We did this for about 30 seconds, many of us began to quietly weep. He then spoke:

"Everything you do in life is affected by both attitude and perception. There will always be plenty of defeats and encounters of negativity in life to tell you that you are either not good enough, smart enough, or strong enough to undertake a challenge or stand in the circle where others thrive as champions. The difference is in your mind. Do you choose to be a champion? Is every choice, every decision, everything you do each day anchored in the belief that you have the guts to choose to think like a champion? To believe that every effort you make leads to a stronger person, a positive thinking person, a person that can encounter pain, criticism, and humiliation and pick themselves up again and say 'none of these things are who I am, they are only steps to a better understanding or another improvement.' If you feel your heart pounding with conviction, your muscles burning against restraint, your lungs bursting as you push into the next level of what you once thought impossible... then you can say, "Here I am, here's where I stand, I'm not going anywhere but up and through. I'm a champion."

Next year we swept both regionals and nationals in mixed combat and weapons, the two most difficult categories in martial arts because it involves all styles of martial arts.

Get your ass off the ground, Anonymous. You're better than your rant.

[Dbdkfofnf]

God damn that was incredibly inspirational.

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Yeah I'm kindve the same way. I'm nice to girls cause I wanna be a nice person and help them out... of course the ones that deserved it. Im not one of those fake nice guys who pretend to be the "nice guy". I've kindve manned up. I can go either way be a total ass or a really charming nice guy. So I kindve done an experiment with talking to girls lately. When I'm in a assholy mood, yeah women get pissed off at me but weirdly become closer. When im nice to them, that puts them in a mood where they're nice to you but ever more distant and unresponsive. Which has led me to the conclusion that I really hope isn't the truth for all girl. But that is the only way women are attracted to guys is if there is always tension and drama caused by the guy. One word: Suspense. Women I've talked to would rather take the dangerous path than the safe and secure path. Then call all men assholes and pigs. When 75% of them go for that say 30% of the male population. I thought women would go for a guy that is protective and they feel secure with. But instead they go to the guy that rapes them and beats them. Then complains about it. Another thing is that women tend to deal with things by forgetting about them or pretending they didn't happen or basically lie to themself. Men deal with things more so by dealing with it and getting over it. So when you think your moral support and helping, you may be doing more harm than good because your reminding them of whatever it is. Women like distractions vs talking about it. But anyhow these are my actual fair and honest observations. Not just going along with the cliché of "nice guys finish last" or being another guy trying to put down women. I love women. I want one lol... to share my life with and spend time with. I just want the right one that doesn't go for douchebags. I still feel like a man at the end of the day even though I'm a nice guy. I wish women would see that. I'm just not a total douchebag. That's all.

[Opinion Owner]

On the upside , at least its "nice guys finish last" and NOT "nice guys never finish". I firmly believe you just have to be patient for what you really want. I'm at the point in my life where people are slowly starting to grow up (mid 20s). So its probably nice guys finish last because women have to realize who's good and who's not. Nice girls finish last too even though I want a nice girl. But I've gone for mostly bad girls cause they're more approachable. Or approach you. So if you are slightly shy with a girl your just meeting like I used be and to lesser extent still am... your more likely to go for bad girls. The good girls are shy and we mistake that for disinterest. That why everybody is saying "build confidence" all the time. Nice women need to too. Low confidence means you aim lower than you actually deserve and get played.

[Anonymous]

I don't know where most of y'all live, but my early understandings of girls came true in reality, that is:

Girls love funny, confident, friendly, popular (yes, social status matters) guys who know how to be a bit of a tease. I've rarely heard of a girl dating a guy who is purely aggressive and gets in trouble every day. In fact, many of these guys with girlfriends write weird stuff for a guy like "LOL" or use smiley emoticons.

One guy friend told me a few months ago that I was being a tad delusional. "I've dated lots of girls and I'm didn't have to be an ass to them." Other guys told me to "be yourself" and many of them later ended up with girlfriends. Be yourself, as in, act like you're all fine without worrying about rejection.

I actually live in South Texas, so I guess the social scene is different then the rest of the country. We're more down to earth, so we don't have a Hollywood complex where a girl needs to turn a bad boy into a good guy.

Super long post, but my point is that getting a girl requires a heck of a lot of social skills like teasing and a social circle, but the "bad boy" persona only helps you in the confidence department. Many "bad boys" from high school ended up with no girlfriend, or left with rachet "relationships" that mean nothing.

[XtraJordanary]

I will agree, social status does make a difference, but its not about teasing—its about not looking like you need a girlfriend. I like independence in a guy.

[sugarchateau]

100% Agree! This guy has got it!

[Anonymous]

Dude, I feel for you. Hell--I used to really BE you, and in truth to some extent I still am. One thing I found that helped me was to internalize the saying, "there are no victims--only volunteers." You absolutely need to blame yourself if you're not getting the outcomes you want and stop blaming the girls. I know that's tough, but believe me--it really helps--plus it means you actually have some ability to influence your outcomes.

The next realization that helped me is that if I'm honest about what I want, it's to be in a relationship with a girl who turns me on physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. And to be honest it's about ALL of those things and SEX is a HUGE part of that. Once you're honest about that, you can see what it's like if you switch things around. Suppose there's a girl who really likes you and is super nice to you, but she's way overweight, has bad skin and is generally a turn off. Interested in dating her? No? Well, for a girl, some of the "nice guy" qualities you may be displaying are the equivalent of being overweight and unattractive.

Next up, you have to think about the ORDER in which you're trying to make an impression. Like you, I used to think you needed to display your good "boyfriend qualities" and then the girl would somehow realize that she really wants to be with you. It CERTAINLY doesn't work that way for me being attracted to girls so why on earth did I ever believe it would work that way to attract girls to me? You have to be SEXUALLY attractive to her FIRST and only THEN do your "boyfriend qualities matter." That's why you see hot girls seeking comfort in you and then going out with the next guy who isn't you. Because that guy piqued her SEXUAL interest. You need to do that FIRST. It doesn't mean you can't be a nice guy--it's just that you need to be sexually interesting FIRST.

Good luck! I hope you learn these lessons faster than I did!

[Galden]

Good job

[Opinion Owner]

@Galden, thanks!

[JustinX9]

damn to be sexually appealing it must be hard

[Opinion Owner]

LOL! Why do you say that @JustinX9?

[Jack766]

Well, I'm nice, and alone. So, I can't really completely disagree with this, but I don't resent women either. People just like who they like. If you're lucky, you're something that she likes, otherwise, all of our relationships will always be one-sided, and that's just the way it is. I don't know why that is, my grandfather and his nice buddies got married by 23. So nice guys weren't always undesirable, but that does appear to be the reality today. I'm not going to change, because I don't think I can. I like being nice, or as I prefer to call it, gentle. It's not just a means to an end, but an end of itself. I will probably be alone for the rest of my life and that does scare me, but you can't make someone want you.

[myTake Owner]

Boom, it's guys like you that fit my description of nice. Hurts doesn't it? You've seen the stuff I've seen I'm guessing, that's why you agree with me a bit. Do NOT change who you are. If you're like me you're sick and tired of the way things are. And gentle couldn't be more of an acurate description. Why are we called gentlemen?

[thecd1979]

A real good guy doesn’t finish last, guys that are insecure, lack confidence, and do nothing but whine, bitch, moan and complain like a baby about how no women like them are the ones that finish last. The best thing you can do is just focus on yourself, your plans and goals and stop worrying about finding a girlfriend, your desperation will be obvious to any women and it’s not attractive. I am pretty sure you have noticed that the guys that get the women are the ones that don’t really make that big of a deal about it. It’s because that guy is confident, knows how to behave like a challenge and isn’t a pushover. It’s all abut confidence and confidence is what is sexy.

[Red7336]

THANK YOU !

[been_waiting]

A-fucking-men

[Bluemax]

"bitch, moan and complain like a baby"
How likely do you think they'll listen to you when you use this language? It seems to me there are at least as many people such as yourself who are whining about people whining about being nice guys.

By the way, I was married. I did NOT focus exclusively on myself, my plans, and goals. I focused on both myself AND finding a woman. Don't you think it's possible to do both? I did worry about finding a wife. I wouldn't say I made a big deal out of it, but I did make something of a deal out of it. One can be concerned about something without being desperate.

I'd say the trick is to be conscious of your trying to get with a girl without being desperate about getting with a girl. I wouldn't say it's ALL about confidence, either. If John Merrick (google him if you don't know who he is) were confident, I doubt very much that would improve his situation. Sometimes one must improve his appearance, not just be confident.

[dwiller943]

Facts.

[howitis]

Ummm, honey. I don't know how else to say this but umm... you aren't really such a nice guy. You come off as kind of a jerk. You don't deserve girls attention. And honestly, how do you know all these other guys are jerks? what just because they're attractive they're automatically douchebags?
I'll give you an example. I knew a guy who was rich. And I mean one of the richest kids in the country. And he is LOVELY! He talks to anyone the same. He's interesting and artistic, and yes, he drives a very nice jag. But that doesn't make him a jerk. Similarly, I know another guy who thinks he's got it all going for him, but he's an ass. He has zero regard for anyone else's feelings or opinions. He thinks he's a nice guy but he's not.
I'll sum it up like this. Would you date yourself? Are you funny? Charming? Intelligent? Do you take pride in your appearance? (that doesn't mean being attractive, that means looking clean and put together) I think you need to take a good hard look at yourself. Because real nice guys don't throw hissy fits on the internet when they don't get their own way.
Oh and by the way, many aspects have clouded are minds of what love is supposed to be, and I'm not trying to point any fingers here... cough... cough... MARVEL... cough...

[circlebill]

You have NO up votes at all! You are very young and you might not be able to understand. Younger females like yourself are VERY IMMATURE! With that impediment, young females cannot appreciate the value in life of a genuine nice guy! Please don't sit there and try to pretend YOU are perfect! I've seen a lot of women make incredibly stupid choices in men! I hope YOU don't follow that path!

[Anonymous]

I have to admire your decision to continue to be the nice guy. Instead of becoming that "bad boy" you are sticking to your gut. Often times I have coworkers or friends who pick out a match for me or just tell me to give some guy a shot because if I don't, the what if factor escalates. So I tell these coworkers my "list" if you will, of qualities that I need to make sure my needs are met. In my experience, the people I know try to downgrade my options. Instead of seeing that I am so sure of someone who will treat me right and support my self worth, they try to set me up with the typical mysterious guy. But for girls it is so so easy to go with a guy who says the right things up front and makes you feel sexy and admired for the while. But is its always the right choice for everyone? No, and definitely not for me. I would like to see more people understand their worth and go with the nice guy, be fair and give it a try. But it's also nice to see women comfortable with someone who isn't going to see them for sex, or try to get the "best" of what they have. And to all the people who say "just give him a try" when he's a jerk, just back the "f" off. Sometimes a girl knows what she wants.

[Bluemax]

If nice guys finish last, how would you account for my father, my brother, and my friends? My dad was a great guy. So is my brother. So are (most of) my friends. And they've been married.

Now that being said, I believe women go for ATTRACTIVE men. Sometimes attractiveness makes people, men and women alike, put other considerations aside. That's not true of most women I've met, but it has been known to happen.

One can't just wait for the right girl to fall from the sky. Furthermore, it's good to be a good person, but that alone doesn't make one attractive.

So what are you doing to get out there and find a girl? What are you doing to make yourself attractive? What are you doing to make your life and yourself interesting?

[AllWomenLie]

I always questioned that? I believe women back then weren't as stuck up, shallow and picky. Now today forget it. They need a list of things to find the guy even motley attractive.

[Bluemax]

It's difficult to carry on a dialogue with someone with the user name "AllWomenLie." That alone makes he wonder if you're not a troll.

[Bluemax]

How do you expect women to react when they read your username "AllWomenLie?"

[Phoenix98]

If nice guys finish last then how do account for my father, grandfathers, uncles, cousins ( my cousins who I might add are only a couple years older then me ) and friends?

The fact of the matter is there's a difference between being a guy who's a pushover and waits around for things to fall on his lap and being a guy who isn't afraid to go after the things he wants in life. And doesn't let anyone or anything walk over him like a doormat.

Nice guys and girls aren't the problem it's the people who got hurt and are bitter that are the problem. Becusde they can't get over the past and they let it define who they are in the present.

[Bluemax]

"If nice guys finish last then how do account for my father, grandfathers, uncles, cousins ( my cousins who I might add are only a couple years older then me ) and friends?"
DING!

How would you suggest they "get over the past" and not "let it define who they are in the present?" That's pretty smart. One of the smartest things I've read on this take thus far.

[Phoenix98]

Lol should I take this as a compliment or a question to be answered.

[Bluemax]

Take it as both.

[Phoenix98]

Ok well first thank you, and as for my answer, its difficult to say everybody deals with stress, heartache, breakups etc differently and have different coping mechanisms. To try to give one defined answer that would apply to everybody would be quite ignorant of me. The only thing I can say is, it helps to have people around that understand what you are going through and that you can relate to, as it helps to have people around who actually understand what you are going through by experiencing it themselves. Other then that it depends completely upon the individual.

[been_waiting]

Problems with "nice guys"
-they think they're nice when really they're passive, meek, submissive doormats
-they think all they need to get a girl is niceness. They think they can be ugly, unfit, insecure, have no social skills, etc but as long as they're not assholes, they get the girl
-they treat girls like princesses who can do no wrong, and that's BORING. I want to date a human not a robot
-they feel entitled
-they aren't REALLY and sincerely nice

[been_waiting]

"Truth is not everyone gets the hot girl or has a happily ever ending story."

I can't stand this. if a Girl said she's chasing the "hot guy" and he doesn't like her even tho she's "nice" she gets told she's shallow.
Why are you going for looks and not personality. Hypocrite.

[been_waiting]

Watch This
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5rZu-tBi7DM

[AllWomenLie]

Please just stop.

[been_waiting]

@AllWomenLie okay since you're clearly a successful ladies man I'll let you do the talking 😂

[AllWomenLie]

I mean stop because you act or are acting like you know what some guys go through or have gone through. I for one am sick of reading and hearing women and girls like you telling guys what's wrong with them or what their doing wrong. Do women ever stop and think maybe its them? Take what the OP said about women crying to their male friends after they get into fights with their douche bag BF's. Their the real problem not the guy. Wanna know why? Because they keep going back to them. But nope the guy gets a pass because he's hot and acts like a tool.

[Keyspirits]

Baby, u watch this ;3
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xfeys7Jfnx8

[been_waiting]

@AllWomenLie said the guy with the username "all women lie" who does nothing but bitch about the plight of the single, sexless male. As if you have any idea what we go through? You don't care either. I know that being single sucks, I know its frustrating for some people, but I'm trying to help. I'm telling you what you're doing wrong. If you're a doormat, girls don't like that. If girls liked doormats we'd be bitched at for it too. If you're a grumpy entitled ass, no one wants you. That's life. You don't attract bees with vinegar. All you do is blame women, and you won't even consider that the issue could be you.

[been_waiting]

The vast majority of girls don't date asses who treat them like shit. You see a few cases of that and then act as if ALL girls do it. That's like me saying all guys go for superficial hot girls with no substance.

[AllWomenLie]

Oh and what problems do you have? Deciding what clothes to wear? What hair style goes best with this outfit? Or my favorite will he think this jeans make my but look big? I don't have the luxury of going to some bar or club and siting or standing around and having some women come to me. Because god freaking forbid a woman gets rejected and embarrassed in public. And don't give me none of this we bleed every month and have to deal with pregnancy.

[been_waiting]

@AllWomenLie AND YOU WONDER WHY YOU'RE SINGLE?

My gender specific troubles include worrying about being raped/kidnapped/murdered, being harassed, being touched without permission (random guys like to grab asses), and putting up with guys that act like fucking babies when I reject them. Like the one that cried and said he was gonna kill himself and now he won't stop blowing up my phone or the guys who won't take no for a fucking answer and make me fear for my safety.

[AllWomenLie]

So what do you want me to do? Feel sorry for you? You don't feel sorry for nice single guys.

[nikiroxs]

she's sooo right, omg i can't stand guys complain about nice guy crap or friend zone-wtf.. rather than fixing themselves some guys ( not all) complain that girls are evil cuz we won't go out with them but go out with "assols". No, nobody should feel sorry for single nice guys, if u categorize urself in that place ur done b/c ur insecure. @allwomenlie some guys put girls in pedestals or treat them like princesses, now would you go and date your butler? off course not, so why should girls? to add on, girls dont go to the guy friend who they know likes them, cuz it would be awk... so unless the guy never told her, his feelings, then she should continue to vent to him and talk to him as a friend...( this is different from using b/c u talk/express urself with friends)

[been_waiting]

@AllWomenLie because the majority of the guys that call themselves nice guys aren't actually nice... they're hypocritical pricks with a sense of entitlement

[been_waiting]

@nikiroxs you make good points that he'll just ignore. But that's ok he can be single then

[been_waiting]

@AllWomenLie woah can I get your number? You sound like boyfriend material. How on earth are you single

[Bluemax]

Do you believe that by using language like "submissive doormats" and "ugly, unfit, insecure, have no social skills" and "BORING" is honestly going to get the writer's attention in a way where he might see he needs to change?

I'm not as convinced as you seem to be that this writer is a "nice guy." Or at least he might be borderline. By the way, I've known PLENTY of people who meet your description of "nice guys" in PLENTY of ways but one: they are genuinely and sincerely good people. On occasion, they lament their single status, not unlike this writer. Yet I wonder if you would rather quickly pass judgement on these nice guys as being "nice guys" simply because of bad experiences you've had in the past.

Even still, suppose for argument this writer is a "nice guy" and not a nice guy or borderline "nice guy," what do you hope to achieve in using this insulting language? Is it to vent your own frustration? Do you want to see a change in the writer? What?

[been_waiting]

@Bluemax I'm speaking freely, what I believe to be the truth. I guess I could've used nicer language but it doesn't change the facts. I'm not talking about legitimately nice guys. I'm talking about "Nice Guys.'

[Bluemax]

No one, least of all me, denies you are speaking freely. Furthermore, I'm the last to deny your right to do so. What I question is how helpful is your choice of language.

In my opinion, ONLY your final point was what delineates nice guys from "nice guys" (well, the second to the last, too). Suppose you're talking to someone who meets your first three criteria for being "nice guy." He's a passive, meek submissive doormat (your words, not mine, and probably not a good choice). He believes he needs to be nice go get the girl. He is ugly, unfit, insecure and has no social skills. He would treat a girl like a princess (I know of NO ONE above the age of five who believes or treats ANYONE as if they can do no wrong). He is a human robot (again, your words, not mine, and in my opinion a poor choice).

-BUT-
He is does not feel entitled and he truly is a kindhearted person.
Assuming you've not rushed to judgment because he fits three out...

[Bluemax]

... of five of your criteria, what do you tell him?

For the record, I could be wrong but I think the writer is probably not a "nice guy," but a guy who is making a very big mistake. But even I'm wrong and the author is a "nice guy," what do you tell the guys out there who are not "nice guys" but nice guys who are making mistakes?

Do you think it's possible to guide them to the truth WITHOUT calling them ugly, boring doormats and human robots?

[been_waiting]

@Bluemax if you want to write a take addressing this issue in a kind and helpful way be my guest.

[R3d_Anonymous]

I have heard of even shy/submissive guys getting girlfriends. How did they do it?

[been_waiting]

@R3d_anonymous I don't recall saying those kind of guys can't ever find a girlfriend? ? ? I said that "nice guys" mistake being a doormat for being nice. And I actually never said the word shy. Being shy is completely unrelated.

[R3d_Anonymous]

Well you said, "When really they're passive, meek, submissive doormats," implying that submissive (and to an extent "shy" because "passive" is a synonym for "shy") men can't get girlfriends.

Well, I can see shyness being a detriment, but I am just questioning your negative reference to a guy being submissive. What if "submissive" is just part of who he is, especially when it comes to sex? Like I think I am sort of on the submissive side, not in terms of relationship, but in terms of sex.

Or am I overthinking what you said?

[Bluemax]

"if you want to write a take addressing this issue in a kind and helpful way be my guest."
I might at that, although I've long been thinking about writing a take on why people respond with opinions that are actually counterproductive and serve to push people away from any wisdom they might have.

Now, getting back to my original questions. What would you say to the aforementioned guy? R3d_Anonymous seems to be one.

[been_waiting]

@R3d_anonymous passive is defined as " accepting or allowing what happens or what others do, without active response or resistance."
Shy: " being reserved or having or showing nervousness or timidity in the company of other people."

Not at all the same thing.
I would say IN GENERAL girls tend to like more... assertive guys I guess? Rather than someone who won't defend himself and lets himself by walked on but that's not a rule. And lol no I'm not talking about sex. I'm talking about personality. I don't like anyone who lets others walk on them

[been_waiting]

@Bluemax I really truly don't care to type out a thoughtful and helpful response addressing these guys. At all. Like I told you, you can if you find it important. I don't care.

[Bluemax]

"I really truly don't care to type out a thoughtful and helpful response addressing these guys. At all. Like I told you, you can if you find it important. I don't care."

And yet you cared enough to write a rather thoughtless response. You cared enough to call some of them ugly, boring, unfit human robots. What exactly are you hoping to achieve in writing that response? Upvotes from people who already agree with you? Venting? What?

[been_waiting]

@Bluemax I... actually didn't call them ugly or robots. Check your reading comprehension.

I said they THINK they can be unfit, ugly, etc and still get a girl if they're nice. What I'm demonstrating with this point is that many of these guys think that "nice" is the ONLY desirable quality that they need to get a girl.
As for the robot comment, I'm talking about guys who just serve a girls every whim rather than being her equal and her partner. Again I'm demonstrating a point. I never said "all you nice guys are fat ugly human robots. " which is what you seem to think.

That response took me 15 seconds and I don't see anything wrong with it. I'm not gonna spend time I would rather spend doing other things carefully picking my words to please some bitter guys.

[been_waiting]

Are you my English teacher or?

This is the second time you've basically asked me to rewrite my response and write it better. If you've got something you wanna say, you say it. Not my job.

[Bluemax]

I think you most certainly implied some (and I was careful to use the word "some," I never said "all") are boring, ugly, unfit robots. But even if you didn't imply it, what do you hope to achieve using those terms? You're free to block me or stop responding at any time. I'm someone YOU ARE CHOOSING to engage with. This may be the second time (I haven't counted) and unless you choose to block me (the intellectual coward's way) then I don't think it will be the last. The reason why I'm asking you these questions is precisely because I think you've got something intelligent to say, but aren't saying it in a way that is not only unhelpful, but actually damaging. You're tossing out words that are FAR more likely to drive people away from anything you have to say. I'm not saying it's your JOB, but I am asking what you are hoping to achieve in throwing out the terms you're using? It never seems to occur to people who insult "nice guys" or nice guys that in so doing they are...

[Bluemax]

... hurting your own cause.

I'm not saying pick your words to please "some bitter guys." I'm saying when you choose the words you chose, you are wasting an opportunity to get through to them. By the way, it took me about 60 seconds to write my response.

[been_waiting]

@Bluemax I appreciate it and all, but I've tried to get this point across much more nicely before and the reactions are always the same. I just don't care anymore.

[Bluemax]

I do have a stubborn streak, there's no denying it. I don't stop trying. I have lived long enough to discover that their reactions are very often the same, but not always. I suspect it has something to do with being a guy. Alas, people are more apt to listen to the same sex in certain circumstances.

Any rate, believe it or not I do think you and many who sound off to the many "nice guys" and nice guys have quite a bit of wisdom to impart (improve your appearance, improve your social skills, don't make it out to be the end of the world when rejected, etc.).

Take the last word if you like. I promise to just listen (unless you ask me a question).

[XStarlightx]

First of all mr. Anonymous, you were/are chasing to wrong girls then. Second of all, nice girls do get treated like shit too. Third of all, yes some girls are stupid for chasing the "bad boys" then getting hurt right after.
I waited for a "nice guy" to came along and guess what? We're happily in a relationship. I'm sure you'll find someone.

[chimi]

Nice girls get treated like shit2. I was faithful even when I was on catwalks in Europe in my modelling phase. guys wd avoid me wn I ws a vrgin. lotsa guys only knew me when people screwed em over and then forgot about me to hang with a bunch of fakes only callin me if they needed something. so even tho u a man and I'm a women I really do feel ur pain. all I say is if anyone doesn't appreciate u and treats u like shit for no reason. cute em off! lifes to short to waste ur time with emotional vampires. go out and do more of the things u love. date a few@the same time even go out so tht u don't think about them. cause what I've noticed is that you can think of em cry over them, but then not thinking about u at all they probably having orgasms with some1 else and there u are alone on a Saturday night. bugger tht they'll wna be part of ur life when you're to busy for em and by that time it'll be to late.

[ILikeToilet]

I call bullshit. "NO girls ever want the nice guy..." Um helloo! I fucking want one and guess what? I found him! It's the same generic, recycled shit I hear over and over.

We all have standards, but just being "the nice guy" doesn't mean crap. That's just a word that guys use as an EXCUSE. I admit, some girls are dumb asses and fall for that so called "bad boy", including myself, but there are some of us who actually get over that little phase in life and attempt to find a better more respectable guy.

You are looking in the wrong places and wasting your time picking up another guys leftovers. You will find a girl, probably when you least expect it.

[Galden]

Well done,
You got over it, i hope you are the same in 20 years. Good job..

[ILikeToilet]

Thank you :) I honestly hope so.