What are your thoughts on the INCEL movement and culture? (Page 3)
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53Opinion
Women should have sex with them and the problem will be solved
Just seems like a bunch of people with too high standards and too many excuses.
Weak minded men in an echochamber
I already hate myself for being a 24 year old virgin. The fact that I'm associated with these assholes just makes me want to die
@oddboyz I'm a 40 year old virgin. I don't hate myself for it, or I should have left my country and joined INCEL.
Hate is just anger directed inward. Don't beat anyone up, least of all yourself.
You've given yourself a label, you've associated that label with being a loser, and you've decided to hate yourself for it. You've created unnecessary psychological pain.
@Dchrls78104 INCEL is a term people identify with and you don't have to leave the country as if you are joining ISIS LOL.
@coachTanthony As a matter of fact, among the 300 ISIS militants scheduled to be executed in Iraq as of last week, one is a female from my country.
INCEL cells haven't penetrated my region yet, as far as I know.
@Dchrls78104 Ha Ha Ha Okay.. you got me.
I think opposite gender should try to talk with incels more so they'll feel less lonely.
While I'm sure this would help men it's not a risk-free approach for women. Guys have a name for girls who talk to them but don't put out.
I didn't downvote you though, that was some other gender traitor.
This sounds like a terrorist sect of MGTOW.
I think they're ticking time bombs.
So would you be if you were left to rot like a plum in a jar.
Sad too, because the tiniest acts of basic human kindness would help these guys tremendously, it's a pathetic fucking joke that you have to be good-looking and successful in order to be seen as human. Fucking disgusting.
The less love there is in the world, the more hate there is in the world, I thought people understood that, I guess everybody loves to see things decaying and degenerating and returning to barbarism and law of the jungle. Better than civilization, huh? Let's be animals, ruled by lust and domination! Yeah, our kids will thank us for letting things slide further down the pit! Jesus.
@Bananaman177 You can blame society all you want, but at the end of the day it's your decision how you treat others.
If everybody treated you like shit all the time, and there was no place in the world where you belonged, it would affect your decision-making abilities, you bloody damned fool.
Wake the hell up!
WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!
Alright alright, Alex Jones. Calm your tits. Nobody said being treated like shit doesn't affect you. That doesn't change anything about what I said though.
"I think they're ticking time bombs."
I think many are, too. How do we defuse them?
@Bluemax I'd focus on trying to prevent future men from becoming like them.
Yes, an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure.
Any ideas how to prevent future men from becoming like him?
@Bluemax I've shared my thoughts on it here:
What should malcontented incels be doing with their lives? ↗
@Bluemax Damn, I actually meant a different one. I'll see if I can find it.
Therapy is often sought out when there is a problem, not before there is a problem. Often times therapy straight up doesn't work because about 50% or more of therapists and the philosophies with which they approach dealing with problems are just quacks and quackery. I've been convinced of this by my friends who are themselves therapists.
@Bluemax The reply I linked you to was my opinion on what men who already are incels should do, or what should be done about them. I'll try to find the reply where I talk about what I think the reasons are for why there are incels, one moment.
@Bluemax Here it is: Is the incel movement because of women's increased demands? ↗
I see.
Of the incels I know personally, none of them actually *call* themselves incels. None of them actually hang out on incel websites. None of them feel entitled to anything. And they're not assholes. I suspect they're the majority.
By critical thinking, I take it you mean examining one's self with critical eye. Am I correct?
@Bluemax That's true, there are most likely far more incels who don't indentify as such. Although I would argue that part of what defines an incel is the proud self-identification as such, as well as a sense of belonging to a "movement" or "community" of like-minded.
And yes, someone who learned (and understands) proper critical thinking, is far more likely to self-examine and self-critique.
I'd also argue that being an asshole or not is what separates incels from just guys who have no success with women. It's the sense of ebtitlement to sex/dates and the blaming of and hatred for women that makes them incels.
*entitlement
I feel sorry for them though. Maybe it's not the same in Germany, but here in the USA, we are a very shallow culture.
@OliviaDenny2000 I feel sorry for any person who can't manage to find a partner (sexual or romantic), don't get me wrong. I have friends who are like that because they are very shy and introverted and such. But they are good-hearted, loving person. Incels are not. Part of being an incel is hatred for women, feeling entitled to sex/dates, and being incapable of self-examination. I don't feel sorry for these kind of people.
Oh, I agree, they go a little too far.
Sorry, I got distracted.
I'm not as optimistic as you that critical thinking will help much. To me it seems learned hopelessness is what comes first. The other stuff about hating women and general misanthropy (something seldom talked about... they hate women most, but I believe they generally hate people, as evidenced by Elliot Roger's manifesto) comes later in their lives (or at least so it seems), after the learned hopelessness.
As for those you know who have had no luck with finding a partner but are good, kind hearted, loving people, why do you think they haven't gone down the road of hating? What's different about them?
I've known many such people (too many, alas) and the reasons don't seem to be that they're better at critical thinking.
"I've known many such people (too many, alas) and the reasons don't seem to be that they're better at critical thinking."
- It's probably most likely also something inherent with most of them. But I think proper critical thinking skills are a must basis at the very least. May I ask what you'd suggest to prevent this?
If I knew for certain how to prevent this, I might be a very wealthy man! ;)
I don't think there's any one thing, but probably several.
Firstly, I think perhaps they need to tackle this learned hopelessness. A lot of incel guys claim they're hopelessly ugly. Hopelessly unappealing. Hopelessly shy. I believe that's not true in most cases. I think many know that self improvement could help, but they don't attempt it because they think it's hopeless (it's not) and uncomfortable to try (true, but who says that's a bad thing?).
Secondly, their problems are legit. People on GAG and the internet like to say they're just whining. They like to tell them love and sex isn't that important (it won't KILL YOU!!!). It's no big deal if you never find someone. All of this, whether it's intended to or not, is BELITTLING A VERY LEGIT PROBLEM. I know most of the time it's not intended to belittle, but it does, intentionally or not.
Having been married 14 wonderful years to a woman I love, I can assure you love and sex to the overwhelming majority of humanity *IS* a big deal. My wife wasn't just some dessert. She was a main course in life. She was a source, albeit not the only one, of tremendous happiness. Although loneliness won't kill you, it shortens your life. It can destroy the quality of life. Arguably, slavery or imprisonment won't kill you. When you think about it, you won't die from lack of freedom. If you're fed and clothed and kept warm in a prison, your needs are provided for. Yet who among us *WANTS* that? There are many things that won't kill your body, but they will seriously injure your soul. Loneliness is one of them.
I think people should take loneliness, lack of love, and lack of sex *VERY* seriously.
Next, positive role models. I read Elliot Roger's manifesto. One thing that struck me was his parents were not at all good role models for love. His father didn't seem to talk at all about...
... about dating and relationships to his son. This set me back to some extent, too. My own father dated exactly one woman in his life, and I call her "mom." My dad was a great man, but not very experienced in dating. My brother somewhat offset this. But it set me back a bit.
Next, STOP CALLING THEM NAMES. Even if they are misogynists, the name calling ONLY does harm. It does no good at all. I can't tell you how many times on GAG I've seen them called pieces of shit, whiners, losers, trash, etc. Sometimes people even claim this is a form of "tough love." Frankly, I'm skeptical. I believe in most cases they couldn't care less. They're just annoyed (in some cases understandably) and they want to vent their annoyance about incels, hence they call them names and claim it's tough love. But even if they were legit trying to get them to see the error of their ways, tough love needn't, in fact positively *SHOULDN'T* include name calling and insults.
@Bluemax Thanks for your input. I disagree with you though.
If you're calling incels names and insulting them, the *ONLY* thing you're accomplishing in virtually every case is making them more defensive. If you're exasperated (and it's understandable) and can think of nothing but calling them names, then it's probably best not to say anything at all.
I'm sorry that was lengthy, but I couldn't think of any other way to put it.
You're welcome.
When agreement isn't possible, it's useful to be clear on what and why. So what exactly do you disagree with and why?
@Bluemax I was originally talking about how to prevent young men from *becoming* incels. And there I think proper critical thinking skills at the very least will have a positive effect and definitely keep some of them from going down that path.
"Next, STOP CALLING THEM NAMES. Even if they are misogynists, the name calling ONLY does harm. It does no good at all."
- First of all, calling a misogynist a misogynist is not exactly "name calling". I will call out misogynists on their misogyny and name it as it is, just as I would do with racists. And that does definitely do good.
And as for actual name calling and insults - I agree that it most likely won't have any positive effect on incels. But I have no intention to do so otherwise. Incels are lost causes. I won't try to get incels to come to their senses just as I won't try to get Alt-Right people to come to their sense. These people are so deep into their - dare I say - ideologies that you cannot win them back. You cannot reason with them. They won't listen. Ever. I will focus on preventing people from becoming like that.
Then we do not disagree much.
I never said calling them misogynists is name calling, did I? When I say name calling, I mean things like loser, trash, pathetic, pieces of shit, subhuman (all of which I've read and heard).
"I agree that it most likely won't have any positive effect on incels"
Not only will it not have a positive effect, it will likely have a negative effect, especially the ones who not so deep into their ideologies. I believe the likeliest result is you'll push the not-so-deep ones in the wrong direction when you (you plural, not you Pamina) start calling them trash, pieces of shit, etc. Moreover, even if you're talking about the ones you feel who *are* too deep, the lost causes (your term not mine, as I have doubts they are lost causes), if the not-so-lost causes hear or read the name calling, I believe they are likely to be pushed in the wrong direction. I believe this name calling (and for the record a second time, I don't think calling them misogynists is name...
@Bluemax You do that. I prefer to focus more on the potential and actual victims of incels. I'm not gonna try to convert any incel, and I will continue to ridicule the most hateful ones for others to see. Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that.
... calling), whether one believes it or not, whether one intends it or not, whether one wants it or not, not only doesn't have a positive effect, actually contributes to the problem.
As for them being lost causes, how can any of us know with any certainty that they are "so far gone" in their ideologies just from talking to them for a few minutes? On NPR's Snap Judgment, there was an episode that featured KLANSMEN for god's sake who were talked to their senses. Not all at once, to be sure, but over time, bit by bit, they did come to their senses. The same is true with the many incels my brother has talked to. How do you account for this?
How can any of us know with certainty who is a lost cause? by the way, I agree some (though I wouldn't hazard an attempt at guessing what percentage) *ARE* lost causes. This doesn't give me reason to call them pieces of shit, especially since I can't be sure who else is listening.
I got bored halfway...
I've known about these guys for years
Being a sad loser is a movement now? smh
Pathetic losers who have given up
Women created this shit.
How so? By having standards for who we sleep with? By sleeping with men who they believe are not worthy? First of all, men also have standards and make poor choices, but unattractive women just move on with their lives -- they don't become terrorists. Second, these guys mostly aren't incels because they're ugly. It's because they're unpleasant people.
Would you have fucked an incel "terrorist" (LoL) if it would have saved anyone?
Simple yes or no.
Yes. But I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Not wanting to sleep with them doesn't make me responsible for their emotional or sexual problems.
Actually, it does, but i won't expect you to express some accountability. Its not in a females natures (most of the time).
If you want to change the way men behave, you have to start by altering females hypergamous nature.
Incels are not something new. It's just your new boogyman
How about we change men's entitled nature? No one is entitled to my body but me. (Not that they want it anyway -- they think they're entitled to much better, even though they aren't that desirable themselves).
Im willing to admit that men are a disaster and need change but not on your terms and the way you put it.
You have no accountability as a female/collective, which is completely expected.
First world females have so much influence on how males behave (as I've observed) but you're unwilling to admit (your) power without embracing the consequence.
There is no incel culture that females couldnt fix as a whole.
Nobody can demand shit from your body any more than you can demand men to change.
It's my opinion the root of the fix is at women.
What exactly do you think we need to be accountable to you for? There are a few things I regret doing in relationships, and from the perspective of age, I'm sorry for hurting those individual men. But that speaks more to the idea that I shouldn't have been in relationships with them at all, NOT that I should have had sex with more of them.
Thats a start right there.
80/20 rule and Female Hypergamy is the root problem. How to change it?- honestly, i dont wanna.
(First world) Males will effeminate themselves if it makes them desirable, remember that. That's how much influence you have; be accountable for that.
Incels have always been around, you're just trying to make up a new boogyman
Bitter losers
Gotta get them sum luv
There's no such thing as an INCEL.
Dont know what it is
Incel is a term uses to describe the people of the world who can't seem to get into a relationship or have a bad tine getting women. These might be your basement nerds, outcasts, mentally challenged, etc etc. They basically hate the world because they can't get a girl to go out with them and they blame many different things, mainly women, for there lack of ability to get laid.
Praise St. Elliot
idiots
losers.