I've always heard that parents and friends will advise ladies to pay attention to if and how much guys tip servers and staff when on a date. As far as I can tell, this has been and remains a common piece of advise.
So, why do you personally pay attention to how much a guy tips, or advise ladies to watch how well a guy tips servers and staff? I'm not just asking why people give this advise, but also, if you do it yourself, why? I'm also curious if it's more of a question of if a guy tips, or if it also matters how much he tips. Does a 15% tip send the same message as a 20% tip?
There are lots of potential logical reasons, so the options I've listed are just the few that I can imagine. If I haven't listed your #1 reason for why give or take this advise, please comment! Please comment also if you can't decide on a #1 reason--or if you want to rank multiple reasons!
It shows if he has much extra money. Broke guys are bad choices.
It shows how generous he is. Cheapskates are bad choices.
It shows how much he values other people. Guys who don't care enough about others to tip are bad choices.
It shows how much he genuinely appreciates that people serve/help. Ungrateful guys are bad choices.
It's just tradition. I or other do this or advise ladies to do this for the sake of the tradition.
I have never heard of or thought about this before.
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Why are ladies told to watch how a guy tips?/why do you pay attention to it?
While pinching pennies is how people get rich, if you can’t afford the tip, you can’t afford to go out to dinner. I might drink water at restaurants to save $4, but I pay the servers what they earn.
I have been on 30 or more dates with guys so I am a very experienced dater.
My advice from many years of experience:
If it is the second / third date and beyond and he still has never paid or ever offered to pay for you, he's not likely gonna be a good husband who will take care of your in the future. A guy who refuses to pay shows he's not self sacrificial nor is he willing to invest himself in a woman. In other words, he doesn't think she is worthy enough to pay for.
It really does not matter if a guy tips or not. And even if he does tip, it does not mean he is a good guy. Because lets be honest, we are obligated to tip every time we eat unless you want to be cussed out by the staff there. But it DOES MATTER if he leaves a generous tip. Guys who leave generous tips tend to be very good nice guys.
No woman is worthy enough to pay for, men are not banks.
Dates should be split 50/50, or each person should pay for their own stuff.
Tipping is stupid, and it used to be illegal because it was seen as a form of bribery and promoted workers getting poor wages.
It is an employer's job to pay their staff with a decent enough portion of the establishment's earnings. It is not the customer's job to pay the employee's wages twice.
Women who expect men to pay for them make bad wives
Thats a load of bs, 99.99% of the women who have hit on me don't even bring up money, or going out on dates, or any sort of expectations aside from commitment, lewd acts, hanging out, talking, cuddles, and sharing hobbies.
Almost all of them also think gold diggers are horrible people. Plus if they can afford their gaming rigs and consoles, they don't need help paying for their half of a sheet pizza or a movie ticket.
Tipping has a purpose. It's not just Payment. It rewards quality service.
If servers were paid only by salary, many would just do the bare minimum work and spend no time talking to customers, and maybe not even checking to see if orders were correct.
The manager can't keep an eye on how well 10 servers are interacting with 70 tables, so really it's very impractical for the manager to acess their service. Besides that, impressing the manager doesn't bring customers back; impressing the customer brings back business.
A good, friendly and attentive server really improves the dining experience. Without tipping existing, you wouldn't have a way to encourage that kind of service.
@Haha456 Not according to what I hear. Guys who try to impress are "nice guys." The ones who suck up and live in fake ways just to impress. The refrain I keep hearing is that they finish last.
The most sought-after guys are the ones who live up to their ideals, lead, and conduct themselves with respect and courtesy. That does not include bending to the will of someone he'd like to date. The match will find him. He doesn't need to make himself onto a good match for someone else.
how many men look like brad pitt or have 10 mansions, 20 luxury cars, 100 maids, and 5 mansions?
you write as if all men can be accomplished and successful. if this were the case, vast majority of men would never have to chase women. Every man will have a woman.
if you are not brad pitt, donald trump or jeff bezos, you will have to impress regardless if you like it or not.
thats a load of BS. In every profession, customer service matters. Regardless if you are an accountant working for clients all day where every single one of them sends you 3000 check a month. Or a nurse working in a rehab facility where clients pay to heal. Nurses even get spit at , yelled at , cursed at and shoved by disrespectful patients. You don't see nurses getting into brawls with patients. They suck it up and still show respect, courtesy and professionalism. If you own a heating / cooling / plumbing company, customers may be outright condescending / disrespectful about your expertise, your ego may be hurt , but you're not allowed to curse customers out.
Every field requires customer service. Every job originates from a business. Client satisfaction matters in every business. why don't we all get tips?
@Haha456 you might be vain enough to date only rich guys, but most women aren't that vain. I know plenty of guys who live to be authentic, and have good marriages and girlfriends. And they aren't making over $80k.
All men can be accomplished and successful. If we're talking about monetary success, it's straightforward:
1. Work hard 2. Develop career capitol and skill 3. Cut costs and save 4. Invest well 5. Maintain momentum.
Quit bring so toxic. You're not God's gift to earth. You aren't entitled to rich and handsome Prince Charming. Just like no guy is entitled to have his fantasy of dating a model fulfilled.
I think you're overly vain for thinking that a man would never need to try to impress to get a woman. And you mention girls who go for average guys who make average money? its because these women are average looking women, not beautiful gorgeous women with amazing prospects.
if you're an average woman, expect to get an average man. If you're a gorgeous model, do you really think she would settle for an average looking joe who makes 60k while she can get a famous millionaire who is worth 60 million?
You contradict yourself. You told TheSpaceGnome that he would die alone. All because he doesn't agree with your entitled idea of impressing a girl.
Yet you pivot and say that average guys get average girls. You know nothing about TheSpaceGnome and have said he will be alone because he doesn't do what the Brad Pitt wannabes do. If your first statement about impressing is true, the average guy gets nothing. If the second statement is true about the average guy getting average girls, then the average guy (which you would presume TheSpaceGnome is, isn't necessarily alone.
Also I reject your belief that some girls are top quality and others aren't. There are only those that many guys find desirable and those that few guys find desirable. This mostly pertains to her looks, but there are other factors:
- is she toxic, starting drama? - is she entitled and bratty? - does she genuinely appreciate a guy, or has she just used her exes? - is she too materialistic? - do our personalities match? - does she share my values?
Just to take you down a peg,
Get over yourself. It's obvious that you're placing yourself in the "high quality" category of looks with your 30+ dates. If you were such, you'd have a successful modeling career. Your entitlement explains why 30 dates didn't get you ylto a good ltr. Many people with happy marriages only needed around 10. Yet there you are.
Not taking advise from someone whose spent $1200+ of other guys' money on dates.
you clearly don't have a dating life. Because if you had a dating life, you would be aware that nobody approaches the average guy. Average guys need to work hard to get a girlfriend. You like to walk around and act as if you have so many options and women to pick from. If you're not brad pitt or jeff bezos or a have a multi million dollar business, YOU HAVE NO OPTIONS. Jeff bezos or donald trump don't need to impress. But if the average guy wants a girlfriend, he would need to impress. Butt hurt about this? its a fact. nobody cares if you're butt hurt.
And its quite hilarious how guys with low self-esteem and no dating life like to assume that you can pick which girl that has no issues or is not toxic WHEN YOU HAVE NO GIRLS TO PICK FROM.
You say that average guys don't have options, yet say that average guys and average girls will date.
Yeah dudes who don't have sociopathic gold-diggers throwing themselves at him do have to ask girls out most times. Though there are plenty of exceptions. In a powerful crush, girls will sometimes make the first move. It's happened to me.
Guy having a social expectation to make the first move is called nature. It's been cultural standard foe centuries outside of cultures that have arranged marriages. You can quite literally see it play out in Shakespeare's 400 year old play, The Taming of the Shrew, Among other plays. In the animal kingdom, the male generally propositions the female. True for the octopus, songbird, and mammals in general. I'm not a zoologist but I can still name a few.
I'm of the opinion that if you date a guy who didn't make the first move, then you're going to be disappointed. Guys who ask out need to demonstrate courage to face up to possible rejection, and not be a coward. So nice guys are out of the equation there.
On to your contradiction.
So if average guys are doomed to be single, (like you ssid) then there wouldn't be so many average guys in good relationships.
So to explain that you say average guys get average girls.
Then you reverse yourself again and say that average guys have no options.
Do you see the contradiction? I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
[You say that average guys don't have options, yet say that average guys and average girls will date.]
average guys and average girls do date. but average guys need to try hard to get a date with average girls. The average guy WILL NEVER be able to get a girl if he never tries to talk to women.
do you think you're donald trump where you have thousands of women lining up to date him?
if you're average, you will need to impress to get a girlfriend. I don't give a shit what you have to say. Average guys can't get girls like brad pitt or millionares.
[Yeah dudes who don't have sociopathic gold-diggers throwing themselves at him do have to ask girls out most times. Though there are plenty of exceptions. In a powerful crush, girls will sometimes make the first move. It's happened to me.]
[Guy having a social expectation to make the first move is called nature. It's been cultural standard foe centuries outside of cultures that have arranged marriages. You can quite literally see it play out in Shakespeare's 400 year old play, The Taming of the Shrew, Among other plays. In the animal kingdom, the male generally propositions the female. True for the octopus, songbird, and mammals in general. I'm not a zoologist but I can still name a few.]
see how you just contradicted yourself right here? you claimed that all girls make moves but then yet complain that men culturally always had to make the move.
how do you claim that its so common for girls to make moves so men don't have to do it? then later on contradict yourself saying that all guys must make moves?
It has nothing to do with impressing the other person, getting the other person stuff, or looking like any particular other person (fyi lots of women find brad pitt ugly, good looks are subjective).
It has to do with compatibility. Its not what the person gets for you or adds to your life, but what you have on common that matters.
relationships are just a best friend you think is hot, they aren't a bank or some other sort of asset, they are company, someone to share your favorite hobbies with.
I'm not by any means rich, but i do get flirted with a lot, so I can afford to be very picky and only date someone that likes the same stuff i do.
People who date or marry based on what the other person can give them will find themselves ending up alone. Gold diggers always get dumped.
Also every employee should be giving their all to keep their job, they shouldn't need a bonus or a tip for that, just a good wage that feels like a bonus, and if they do bare minimum getting paid that well, fire them.
Vast majority of guys who aren't great looking or rich can't afford to just sit and wait for girls to come to them. Otherwise, this just means a life being chronically single. Average guys need to actively seek out , talk to women, in order to get any woman.
1. if no one finds you attractive physically or mentally, you aren't left with impressing them as a last resort, you are simply forced into being single.
2. Even the ugliest, laziest, poorest people end up married for life, because someone found them attractive in some way.
3. There isn't a higher number of attractive women than attractive men, so neither men nor women can expect to be chased as a whole.
4. chasing is not worth doing, anyone worth dating is just as eager to spend time with you as you are with them.
5. common interests outweigh looks in impact weight by a metric ton.
6. any guy who is super rich and willing to pay out the ass for a gold digger, is either hideous, or too stupid to have a permanent relationship. either way it won't last.
[1. if no one finds you attractive physically or mentally, you aren't left with impressing them as a last resort, you are simply forced into being single.]
Impressing is something that only average joes have to do. Its not something that beautiful women or hot guys or rich guys have to do. You can go continue deluding yourself that you will get plenty of people approaching you as an average guy. there's a good chance that will never happen.
[2. Even the ugliest, laziest, poorest people end up married for life, because someone found them attractive in some way.]
The laziest, poorest people are married because they go out of their way to talk to the opposite sex. They get rejected a lot but they continue trying. They're not Donald trump where he never needs to try to talk to women, but yet tons of women are still lined outside his door to date him. Attractive men do not have to try.
[3. There isn't a higher number of attractive women than attractive men, so neither men nor women can expect to be chased as a whole.]
Usually its the men who chase the women. No amount of lying will change this fact.
[4. chasing is not worth doing, anyone worth dating is just as eager to spend time with you as you are with them.]
if nobody is chasing you, and you aren't chasing them. you're just gonna be single for life. Nobody would be dating or marrying.
[5. common interests outweigh looks in impact weight by a metric ton.]
sounds like you're just in denial. if looks don't matter , why do men only date younger women? why do women only want men who are taller than them?
There isn't any point in continuing this debate as you repeatedly spout bs as counterpoints, so i'm just going to end with "no, you're incorrect" and leave it at that.
maybe if you weren't a misogynist and didn't try to assert something that makes no logical sense, then we wouldn't be caught up in this argument. but you started it and you will serve the consequences
Well that's a stupid claim. We never talked about misogeny here. Way to misdirect when I make a valid point. You've made the red herring fallacy, ad Hominem fallacy, and made made a fool of yourself to boot.
I started it? This actually started when you started saying misandrist stuff to TheSpaceGnome about how men need to impress, or else be single. So overall you started it. I only threw my hat into the ring.
So, I ask again, what do you do when you're in a flame war where neither admits defeat? Yeah you didn't think that one through. Try to dodge that embarrassing moment, but it's not getting away from you.
I actually snorted when you said that about "bearing the consequences." What? having some 30 year old you upset at me? Man, to think that's a consequence, you must not have a life outside of this website.
The rest of us pay attention to what the people we see face to face think of us.
Honestly, this is a stupid waste of time talking to you. I'm going to get a marketing certification or two. I recommend the same to you. It helps get you a job.
I'll only be coming back to this conversation when extraordinarily bored. so have fun.
you were the one who dropped out of the debate. because you simply knew you couldn't argue with me. The opinions you pushed didn't make any sense and were made simply out of your hatred for women. What was so incorrect about stating "average joes need to impress"? its a fact. if you're not donald trump or brad pitt, you won't get a date unless you try to impress or seek out. you were arguing with it simply because you're a weak , meek man with low self esteem.
[I actually snorted when you said that about "bearing the consequences." What? having some 30 year old you upset at me? Man, to think that's a consequence, you must not have a life outside of this website.]
you were the one complaining about me still arguing on here. obviously you don't like it at all.
Tipping is an option. Afaic, everyone starts at 15%. Some work their way up, some down. A few have worked their way all the way to zero - and deserved every penny. (ex: 1) gave my meal to their friends who came in 30 minutes after my order, 2) seated us then never came back but spent 30 min talking to friends at next table, 3) served a plate of hot wings and then never came back to refill the beer, etc.). As with parenting, not everyone is cut out to fulfill that position.
My grandmother used to tell me something about the lines that would align with the thought I was definitely always supposed to pay and not cheap out in tip because it was my job. lol. To her it meant it was important for a woman to know you can afford a life because she wasn't traditionally going to work for a paycheck. She was going to work by taking care of the home and children.
I think the rules of engagement were very clear for my grandparents generation. Everyone's roles were clearly defined and everyone knew what was expected of each other.
Today things are different but not everyone is on the same page of who does what and it seems to be the cause of a lot of confusion.
For ex some people still agree with the way our grandparents did things traditionally so a woman might be inclined based on what was taught to her or maybe it's just her own belief to pay attention to a guys tipping because it indicates how he will treat her in some bigger picture.
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Old traditions thoughts to survive and protect family. It means he cares etc bc men is the protector. In some countries they have to do more than that to prove their love. So relax it’s ok if you don’t want to don’t do it don’t tip. Pay half and half. That’s fine too.
I am not a high tipper. I always tip the bare minimum. If you don't like that, guess what? I couldn't care less.
I almost never go out to eat at a restaurant. It's like a once a month thing. If they can't handle getting ONE low tip from one random bloke once in a blue moon, then that's their problem.
I'm very polite, and I always treat the staff respectfully.
I don't tip, because I don't live in a third world country where the staff is reliant on my tips to survive. Unless they do a particularly great job, of course.
For me it’s more how does he treat others. If he is rude to the staff or penny pinching (cheap), then he is not someone that I would ever be interested in.
Good luck watching me when I tip. I almost always put my tips on my CC. I almost never leave money on the table. In the unlikely event, I tip cash I give the money directly to the server.
@MikeInHawaii In the case of a business expense, You can deduct up to 50% of the meal plus tips. Honestly, I hand all my receipts to my accountant and my 1040s are ready most times by the end of Feb. As far as eating in general I really don't give a damn what the IRS can see. I'm not attempting to deduct any of it. I don't carry much cash on me. Right now I think I might have $13 on me. Carrying cash is a good way to get mugged in today's world.
I meant what the IRS can see the server earned. If I leave $10 in cash and $1 on the credit card, the IRS sees a $1 tip. The server has taxes withheld on $1. My meals aren’t business expenses, anyway.
@MikeInHawaii I understand and agree. Just know servers are required to submit an IRS form 4070A to their employer and report all those tips anyway unless the business has another system. Most places assume a server makes so much in tips and deducts based on that. I would not worry about it. Speak to some people that are servers about the tip system.
If Ban is able to rack up paper with Tito’s alone for not wearing a shirt, does that mean maidens can do the same but with a consented muffin take out?
There's nothing wrong with your username, honey. I meant like when you quote stuff on Instagram and Tiktok to gain followers in the name of psychology... Pop psychology as in psychology with little to no accuracy
I'm trying to understand, why did you bring up pop psychology here? I didn't quote any in my question as far as I can tell. And I definitely didn't intentionally reference any purportedly psychological sources.
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