Girls, Why do you prefer to spend more energy and time fighting for a tiny pool of guys when there are a lot of decent ones out there?

[Sixgunsound]

I hear from female content creators and in regular conversations that finding a decent guy is harder now than it ever has been. Do I deny that there are creeps, losers, abusers, etc who aren't worth your time? Of course not. What I am trying to understand from the female perspective is what is gained by limiting your dating pool and hoping that McDreamy picks you out of all his options? It would work out great for you if he did pick you, but it would also work out if the quiet nerdy guy who was socially radioactive in high school but hit his six figure stride by age 30 was given a chance. I'm not suggesting that you don't have standards at all, but when you price yourself out of the market with such ridiculously high standards that only a small handful can meet but tens of thousands of women are trying to meet him, it seems like a losing proposition mathematically. Not trying to troll, I actually want a few serious people to engage in a discussion.

Updates

11 mo

I'm getting good responses, please keep them coming!

[LaFemmeFatale_1]

The first partner I had, not only I didn’t have to fight, but he “fought” for me, competed really hard to get me.

And he was that kind of man, I’d put him in the top 1-2 % of attractiveness. He loved me, was very sweet to me, proposed me but after 3.5 years together broke up with me and got into a new relationship.

We broke up 10 months ago. At first, I found it hard to find any men attractive because almost everyone I met was way less attractive than him. Because he really was one of the hottest guys you might meet these days.

Then I realized just now about a month ago that I don’t need to be so concentrated on male looks.

However last week I had a date with a guy who was really nice but turned out to be one of the least attractive people I’ve met.

I had zero attraction to him and I cannot see myself being attracted to him ever. He was way below average.

I understand that he’s nice, but if I don’t feel attracted at all, why should I keep dating?

I think I won’t be that concentrated on male looks, but I won’t definitely settle with someone I feel zero connection and attraction with, I’ll just not look for guys who are in 1-2 % of attractiveness anymore, because I had one and he broke my heart in the end.

I think I’d like to meet someone who’s not that hot but possesses some characteristics that I find sexy and attractive, whether looks or personality wise.

[LaFemmeFatale_1]

So, I think I’ll give more chances to average guys who might not be that hot, but who are still attractive in their own ways.

[Sixgunsound]

I hope it wasn't a bad breakup, you both must have felt strongly about eachother to get engaged. I don't fault you for not pursuing someone you aren't interested in at all, and am impressed that you are willing to look at realistic guys now that you have had the top 1-2% of attractiveness before. A lot of people would think that they got the best of the best before, they can get something similar again, and consider anything less 'settling'. #respect

[Sparrow012]

I get what you're saying. I think the problem is that it's hard to switch your brain off from what you find attractive. And unfortunately it is typically the men who are highly sort after that have these attractive traits (whether that be looks, money, charisma etc).

I also think us females do have a stupid mentality that we'll be the one to 'tame', as you put it, 'Mr Dreamy'.

It's self-destructive in the relationship sense as you set yourself up to fail (shooting for the near-impossible)

I myself am aware of this predisposition and try to influence attraction by character analysis (would this guy make a good father & husband (?)). If I find the guy not to be a good guy- by looking past money, charisma, looks etc- I can curb my attraction to some extent.

But yeah those are my thoughts.

[Sixgunsound]

You have a better attitude about this than people who talk louder and more often about this. So what is the current minimum for men to have a chance these days? Back before I got married it was pretty much 6 ft six pack six figures. It was very shallow and short-sighted, which you seem to have found a way around by being able to curb your attraction if he has no long term potential. Would you say that a lot if your friends or female relatives have this attitude too? I have a lot of respect for you figuring this out so young. Did you have someone in your life who was older who told you to approach dating this way? Is this becoming a trend? Thank you for writing a longer and thoughtful answer.

[Sparrow012]

Hey, yeah no worries.
I'm Christian, so just be aware the word of God informs my opinions on these matters
My ultimate source is the wisdom of God (which has kept me from many a pit fall).
The Bible teaches that man looks at the outward appearance but God looks at the heart.

I think this wise and it is my outlook on life. This paired with seeing people as redeemable, by God not me mind you, has been largely taught to me by my family and close relatives (though I credit God, ultimately).
As I've gotten older I've also found it to be credible in society (like I mentioned earlier, wisdom to avoid certain men but also the ability to form meaningful connections- by having a heart for who the person is rather than what they claim to be).
And yeah, my other young Christian friends (female) all have the same mentality as me (though execution may vary to some extent).
I would go as far to say that we are more radical in this approach, and our desire to live out womanhood (as God defines) than our mothers have been.
Probably not a societal trend though, maybe iust more of a personal journey than is shared by some friends.

I live in a small rural community (which I think also humanises people- as people aren't merely faces/bodies like in the city)- I know most everyone, at least in some capacity.

I think you will find contrast of city/country woman in their 'current minimum' will be imense.
I see cities/captials as a lot more materialistic so certain social and economic status is required to survive (let alone thrive).
It's not the same standard in the country (more simplistic life, with less resources required).
This may also be of some interest in this discussion.
I can't really comment on current minimum from personal perspective as in all honesty- not a enough of my circle is dating/ married to have a solid answer for that one.

Thanks for your reply, I'm hoping it is of some help in answering your questions.
Have a fantastic day😁

[Sixgunsound]

The Christian tradition was fundamental to western civilization for so much of its history that it would be foolish to say that any person socialized in the west was not formed in part by it, even if in rebellion to it they need to know what it is they are rebelling against.

There is definitely a difference in materialism and economic requirements between city and rural settings. As soon as I can my intention is to move to a rural setting.

Can you please talk about the huge difference between submission and servitude? This is a hot button topic, which I think is widely understood regarding Christian women, in the main because people who willfully or otherwise misunderstand it and then push those views outward. I think it would be better received from a woman living the life than a man.

[Sparrow012]

Fair. I would agree.
I would also like to comment that I think the moving away from Christian standards have birthed the monstrosity we are seeing in society (aka the destruction of traditional family).
We are reaping what we have sown

Submission definitely ties into this.
It's is scorned, ironically, when in fact submission is incredibly powerful.

I liken submission to meekness; strength under control. It's the suppressing of survival instincts for the sake of a greater good (ie: the family).
Submission is the intelligence to see the good in what you are doing by denying yourself (to an extent). And doing so by choice. This is wisdom.
Servitude is the thoughtless submission, which seems more forced to me (as it is thoughtless, not choosen but expected)
One almost seems to reject intelligence, the other capitalises on it.

Hierarchy-order- has been, and always will be, a pivotal part of human society (though this appears to be changing)
Knowing your role and being wise to act within it is submission that will reap much benefits. The workplace is great example of this.
If you try to act like the boss, when you're not, it will not end well for you.

[Sparrow012]

Similarly, God designed marriage as such that woman were to submit to (respect) the man's authority. While men were to love their wives as they loved their own bodies.

I think one thing that is not widely understood is that submission is a reflection of God in relation to man.
Jesus and the church is the picture seen in marriage.
The church (Christians, wife) are to submit to God (Jesus-His word, husband).
Equal in intent, the glory of God. Different in execution.

But it's all falling apart now
Men don't love women and women don't respect man, and it all comes back to a denial of the ultimate authority, God- who we all ought to be in submission to, male and female.

But yeah those are my thoughts. Might be abit scattered/ hard to follow.
I think a good summation of submission is the understanding of an equal goal (ie: a thriving relationship/household) through different roles (ie: leadership and submission).

[Sixgunsound]

I think I can see where you are going with your thoughts, you're fine. Thank you again for writing an actual dialogue. In both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, the state relied on children to inform on their parents, which would not happen with strong nuclear families that were respected by society or government. I think the moves being made to tear down traditional families are being done to weaken our ability to resist the growing power of a government looking to replace parents with itself in the hearts and minds of children, which is disgusting and evil. The Satanic guide stones demanded a massive reduction in the human population, and destroying strong families, disincentivizing children, and twisting the minds of those who live long enough to be born are, in my opinion, steps being taken by the human powers that be to achieve that goal.

Which woman is more powerful, the corporate wage slave whose family is a hot mess but at least she's making enough money to fight with her husband on a level playing field, or the one whose husband and children love her and would do anything for her until the day she dies? Women in the west used to be on a pedestal and men would come to them and ask them for attention. I don't see the advantages to women under the modern system, but there were plenty under the Christian submission system.

Men have to live up to and be worthy of a woman's submission, it isn't just because we have a Y chromosome. I think that is where a lotof the negative stereotyping began, the 'I wear the pants so I make the rules' mentality from men who did not understand that they have a role to play within the system or it falls apart. It is a reciprocal system where both partners put the others' needs before their own, so everybody still gets their needs met and it can function.

[Sparrow012]

Completely agree.
Woman are better off in our role, not trying to be men. I know I am far happier pursuing a more traditional lifestyle. Ironically I was a high achieving student and was off to pursue a high powered job when God opened my eyes to the truth of the matter.
Woman aren't made to hussle that hard, we just don't handle that sort of stress the way men can (I can say this as I have grown up around high-powered career woman and have watched it).
Furthermore, the children are paying the ultimate price for the narcissism the adults (particuarly woman) have been bathed in for the last few decades.
It used to get about family, collective happiness.
Now it's all about the individual. The fact that a selfish individual can completely wreck a family if they're not 'happy' and this is celebrated is insanity.
A married couple with sane kids almost seems be an anomaly at this point in western society.
I personally think a lot of the mental health problems in the youth come from a lack of stable and nurturing households.
I know I'm young, but I've been keeping a close eye on what the kids are like coming through, talking to teachers and students etc-and to say it's mind blowing is putting it mildly. The kids are completely emotionally, spiritually and physically wrecked (with a few exceptions).

[Sparrow012]

I agree, I think this is a calculated attack on females. One that as been so brilliantly executed the woman think they have 'liberated' when they are in fact victims of their own (though suggested by society) stupidity. The 'Powers at be', as you put it, know that in taking out the woman you automatically get the kids and men (the next generation in particular).
Whatever your stance on the government, it is clear that the nuclear family works and that the replacing of it in favour of individualism (and thus dependence on government) is nothing short of foolishness.
Furthermore I think the internet has enabled this individualism and government over reach. You can exist in a world but yet not be part of it, creating your own reality (ultimate narcissism).

And I agree. Men have been weakened by moving out of the way for aggressive female societal norms.
I personally find feminine men grossly unattractive as it is acceptance of the lie, but just from the other extreme.
I know I'm only one woman, but I hope that I will be a help to draw masculinity out of men and feminity out of woman (by accepting and living out my God-given role).
Thanks for your reply, I'm finding it interesting reading your opinion👍

[Sparrow012]

Sorry I meant to say, I agree but on the flip side there seems to be more effeminate men (few very masculine men). * just adding onto my last point

[Sixgunsound]

There are things my wife is better equipped emotionally or physically for that I will never be as good at, and there are things I am better equipped emotionally and physically for that she will never be as good at. I can reach the top of the refrigerator for example🤣 All kidding aside, you make an excellent point about women's ability to handle work stress. This is not to say women can't or shouldn't have the option to, but it will be a harder fight to get the same results, and if I was a woman I would rather devote my time and energy to an organization where I cannot be replaced or outsourced (my family) than a corporate hell hole where I can be replaced or gotten rid of at any time. My wife has an innate sixth sense about when the kids are sick that I will never have, but she can't carry them out to the car to go to the doctor. We need eachother's best efforts to ensure the kids get the best results.

Men will rise to the standards that women will tolerate for their behavior. If women will tolerate comittment free sex, men will happily accept it. If women will tolerate a soulless government bureaucracy replacing active father involvement raising their child via the welfare state without requiring any effort from the father, he will happily walk away in many cases. If it becomes empowering for women to give their bodies to the equivalent of an entire sports team every weekend from mindless lust, men will happily do their part. Letting feminine simp men reproduce is doing a disservice to the women of the future. I have the utmost respect and appreciation for you holding any man who might come into your life to higher standards and seeing who they are instead of what you can get from them.

As a teacher I can unequivocally say that most of the mental health problems in children that aren't physical in nature come from crap situations at home.

[Sparrow012]

You and your wife sound like a good team, your children must be very fortunate :)
And wow, teaching- I guess you have firsthand insight into the carnage that is the next generation.
Do you think there's any hope for the next generation? Or has it gone to far?
I'm also interested to know how you find existing in the education system in light of woke ideology and the very real biases within it.
Do you speak out on issues like these or find that you're effectively muzzled by your contracts? If you prefer not to answer not worries, thanks again for your thoughts. And thank you, I try not to view anyone as someone I can leech off. Ultimate I've found fulfillment is found in walking with God, not sucking the life out of others. Their supply is limited, God's is not😊.
People will always let you down anyway, in some way or another.

[Sixgunsound]

"Ultimately fulfillment is found in walking with God, not sucking the life out of others. Their supply is limited, God's is not." I'm not sure you fully appreciate what you've done here. You have successfully broken down thousands of years and millions of pages of Christian thought into a bite size morsel for the masses. That is kind of a big deal, well done. Yes I'm being serious. This needs to be a part of the next Ephesians study group at your church.

Regarding the next generation, it is like Dickens said, it was the best of times, it was the worst of times. People your age are running startups and hedge funds and also leading the charge to pretend men can be women. It's a bit of a mixed bag. The sheer number of people drinking the woke kool-aid is disheartening, but there are also young people who are fighting back.

Contracts can be litigated, it's far easier to muzzle teachers by having the person who decides if you get to remain employed be on the team doing the woke BS. Being a teacher who doesn't agree with every single one of the constantly shifting goal posts of the woke ideology is like running through the Serengetti naked except for bacon wrapped pork chops covering your bits on a path made of eggshells covered in DDT pesticide. You crack one of those eggshells and you will never teach in the entire United States again if the national teachers unions can possibly help it. So, no pressure. I was under less pressure at test depth on the submarine than I anm simply for existing as a white male who asks too many inconvenient questions in a public school setting. Even Catholic schools aren't safe as I did a brief student-teaching observation period there, just in time to see the grief councilors and social workers the school brought in to comfort the kids who had to listen to a speech by an alumni who was a HUGE donor talk about the value of hard work in getting him where he is today. I mean really, can they not read Leo's Papal statement on labor?

[Sixgunsound]

https://youtu.be/QU67ohDQaEk

This is public school today in a nutshell.

[Sparrow012]

Thank-you, though I can't take much credit. The Lord gives me His wisdom 😊
And haha that gave me a chuckle. A sad chuckle mind you, good on you for taking a stand for what is right.
I'm sure there will come a day when there will be a significant cost to doing so. May you stand on the side of truth no matter the opposition.
Thank-you for conversing with me, I've found it very enlightening.
May God bless you, Sir,
-Phoebe.

[chloeaimeejensen]

Here’s the simple answer, when we first start being sexually excited and start dreaming about boys we want to be with, the majority of us want either a rich billionaire who has the big mansion and the fast cars or we want the muscular tattooed bad boy that rides a super bike or has a highly modified street car which they race. And I guess we just struggle to get that stereotype out of our mind.

[Sixgunsound]

I get that in the teen years, but it doesn't change in your 20's when you need to start making long term life choices? I got married at age 25 to a woman who was 23.

[chloeaimeejensen]

Have you ever watched any love and relationships type of reality TV such as love island or too hot to handle? All the contestants on them shows claim to be looking for the one and almost every girl on those shows has said at one point or another how they were dating sugar daddies or bad boys before coming onto the show and they’re all in there late 20s.

[Sixgunsound]

I'm obliged to admit I don't watch a lot of TV. I'd rather go straight to the source for questions like this the answers are more reliable than trying to filter script from spontaneity.

[Malwi93]

my type has always been a gangsta rapper or a NBA player lmao. that didn't change since 7 years old.

[Sixgunsound]

@Malwi93 hey as long as you know what works for you that's cool.

[provokeesmokee]

"Why would you want good quality items when you can rifle through the dumpster for trash?"

[Sixgunsound]

That exact mindset, the false all or nothing dichotomy, seems to an outsider looking in to be making an increasing number of middle aged single women miserable. I don't understand why so many young women see their older peers having that experience and want it for themselves. Can you expand or unpack that little moreplease?

[provokeesmokee]

I don't see how it's such a terrible thing to have standards that are - frankly - easy to meet.

Women aren't looking for a superhero.

We're just looking for someone capable of being an equal partner, who goes above the bare minimum in life and in love.

It isn't anyone's fault but the man's if a man wants to be too lazy to pull his life together.

I don't see how you feel like an entire gender demographic should pander to your own low self-expectations isn't a massive self-own.

I suppose I'm one of those "miserable middle aged women", but the thing is: I'm far from miserable.

You know when I was miserable? Dating men and women who fell below my standards.

There's no victory in "settling for less". There's no comfort in winding up mother, manager, and mate for an underdeveloped manchild. 🤷🏾

[Sixgunsound]

My example was a guy who has his life together enough to make six figures but was socially awkward in high school. I also acknowledged there are men who don't deserve the time of day before that. I'm sorry the people you chose to date were not that great and it left you with unresolved issues you feel the need to take out on strangers on the internet, but in the future if you want to vent about your hangups could you at least give the op the reasonable courtesy of reading the question?

[anon1903]

Well, for starters, there's the myth of dating down.

[anon1903]

THE MYTH OF DATING DOWN ↗

[Sixgunsound]

I agree with you that the longer you wait the less options you have to date. A balance needs to be struck between pursuit of the unattainable hotness with his own bag known as 'Mr. Right' and the no account loser who will likely pump and dump you known as 'Mr. Right Now'. Neither of those extremes are the right answer, which is where the guys in the middle come into play. Average Joe is probably going to be more loyal and a better father than a guy who has had options his whole adult life or one who isn't an adult to begin with.