How can I get to know a woman as friends first without being friendzoned?

[Anonymous]

I have never once in my entire life been able to successfully court a woman respectfully/platonically first and later have it build into true romance. If I did this I without a doubt got friendzoned every single time. I always get sexual with the women I dated within 3 dates.

It wasn’t always about gratification. I felt like I had to make a move or she would never see me as more than a friend. This includes women I’ve just kissed and made out with early in the dating process. They would ultimately friéndzone me as well.

Long story short I really want to do things the right way for once. But I don’t know if the right way even exists any more in modern culture.

Updates

7 mo

Just a few things here:

- I have not “accepted” a friéndzone in over 12 years. I’ll speak up when I see it happening and leave.
- in over 90% of these scenarios the woman never spoke up about where they stood. Instead they played dumb.
- It was obvious to the women I tried courting when I was younger I was interested. We have at least kissed and done more (but no home plate).
- I can take rejection. It’s not fun but it’s life. Attraction isn’t a choice (but respect is).

Updates

7 mo

I also do belong to a local church (no rude comments about religion please). I noticed that in the last three churches I have attended there are several other single men around my age who have a similar problem to what I mentioned above.

But there are no single woman in my dating range (youngest I’ll date is 27/28). The single ones are all in their early 20s.

[Ozanne]

All women are different. Some will want the sex within three dates, and some won't. So what kind of woman do you think you're trying to attract by snagging them sexually? Usually the women that you men are passing over are the ones who want to take their time and work on getting to know you. Instead, you have sex with the ones who are not interested in you after seeing you a few times, thinking it's going to lead to something meaningful. While it's possible, it's not very common that it works out that way. So if you're trying to attract a quality relationship, put some thought into how to make the mating-dance fun and interesting for a woman. Remember, just like many men, many women can be sex-only as well, and if you give it to them early, making it the basis of your relationship, you will be disappointed when other things start getting in the way such as all the things you don't have in common, but you didn't take the time to figure out what those things were.

[Asker]

I had sex within three dates of all three of my last long term gfs. Yes I am a man and I have that biological impulse but it wasn’t just about that. It was also about making a statement about where I stood.

But I honestly don’t want to do that anymore. I would like to seriously get to know someone first. But I have hang ups on how that approach worked out for me when I was much younger (always ended horribly).

I also has a grown ass woman a year older than me try to pull friéndzone bs on me a few years ago. She saw my kindness as weakness.

I used to think women would grow out of the selfish naivety until I met women in their 30s (more than one) who STILL think it’s okay to “play dumb”. I just don’t want to get exploited like that again. It really took a lot out of me when it that happens.

[TruthBeTold77]

Honestly as i meet a guy within minutes I've made a decision.

There's 3 and only two are changeable.

1). No way In hell. He as no chance whatsoever. Straight friend zoned never getting out.

2). Maybe? (Can go either way once I got to know him. He can become a yes or a no way in hell.)

3). Yes. I'd like something with him. (Again can go either way once I've got to know him)

I like being friends first and as I said I make a decision within minutes of meeting you. If it was a no from the get it is always going to be a no. If I like you then being friends first will only change that is if I see stuff that are red flags or that you're just a jerk.

[Asker]

So let’s say scenario #1 happens.

How do you let the guy know you are not interested when he is trying to pursue you (and he’s polite yet it’s obvious he likes you).

[TruthBeTold77]

If he's made a move/asked me out then I just tell him that I'm not interested in him within that manner.

[Asker]

What if he hasn’t made a move but it’s obvious in his body language, comments and tone of voice that he is interested?

Say if he asks you to “hang out” and offers to pay for dinner/activities? Then what?

[TruthBeTold77]

Honestly if he doesn't make a move or verbally tell me his intentions then I just say nothing. If he brings up his intentions/a date offer, I tell him it's not going to happen. If he just invites me out and it's not said to be a date if I think he's cool as a person I'll go. As for him paying I'd make sure he knows it's just friends, so that decision is on him.

[TruthBeTold77]

If you have no interest in being actual friends with a women then it's kinda important to say what your intentions are from the jump. Nothing wrong with letting someone know that you're interested in them but would like to start of with being friends, that way she can tell you how she feels about that.

[Asker]

Well some women do like to play dumb and meanwhile accepting all the benefits that comes along with it (attention, free meals, favors).

But why is it always “on the guy” to figure out if she’s not into him? Do you really want guys verbally saying “hey want to have a sexual relationship with you” on the second date? If you like him then great. But in scenario #1 you could get creeped out and react very negatively by that. That’s why many guys don’t speak up.

No straight man is going to waste his time, money, effort, energy, etc. approaching a woman just to be “friends with her”. We might become platonic friends through a shared activity (work, school, recreational activities, etc). But again there is no reason why a man would seek out a woman just to be “friends”. He’s virtually always interested in being more than friends if he approaches.

When I say “interested” that doesn’t always mean he is looking to jump her bones on the 1-2 date. He might be taking his time. But again he’s interested and women need to stop conveniently playing dumb when that happens.

That’s where I have a problem when it comes to how some women act when it comes to this. Of course you don’t have to date him but when it’s obvious he likes you then you do have a responsibility to (tactfully) speak up about where you stand. It might not be what he wants to hear but it’s what he NEEDS to hear. He might be angry at the outcome but if he’s a mature man he won’t be angry at you. There is a difference there.

[TruthBeTold77]

Its on the person who wants something with the other to find out if that person is also interested. It mainly falls on guys, as guys make moves more than women. But I have hit on a guy before and guess what it was on me to figure out if he is interested or not. If your 1 then you aren't even getting one date nevermind two lol.

That's why I said it's important to say your intentions from the jump. If it's a date then say it's a date that way if your a 1 then I can nicely tell you I'm not interested.

You're right if a random guy approaches me and wants to hang out then I know to say no if I'm not interested in him. I'm personally a homebody so most of the men that I come across are from work situations so it's easy to confuse some things so it's best to always make your intentions clear.

As I said nothing wrong with telling a person you like them and if they are interested then you'd like to take things slow and start of as just friends. I don't think sex when I hear "take things slow and start with just being friends" 🤷

As for speaking up? Dude I get men telling me I'm beautiful, stunning and all kinds of stuff yes it's clear they like me but I'm not going to tell them all if they have a chance or not when they've not even actually asked for one. If you want to know then ask, same way if I want to know if i have a chance with a guy then I make myself clear that I like him and I'd like it with we could go out sometime. It's not hard to tell people your intentions.

[Asker]

Still though women do “play dumb” when it’s convenient for them. They know if they speak up then the attention, favors, etc. will mostly go away so of course it’s convenient to say “well I didn’t know he liked me” when it is completely obvious he does.

I know it’s not easy to have that kind of confrontation. Never fun to reject someone (I’ve been in reverse position myself) especially if they are an otherwise decent person. But still have to respect their feelings and the friendzone IS rejection. It’s not some sort of “option C”. It’s NOT letting someone down with gentle hands. It’s not kind. In fact it’s the worst thing you can do. Because the man is wasted time, effort, courage, money, hope, etc. on a woman who doesn’t deserve it.

Also I forgot to mention how #metoo scared the living hell out of lots of guys. Maybe you’re not the type to destroy a guy you don’t like if he made a move but those women really do exist. We don’t know if you could be one of them. That’s another reason why guys beat around the bush and are less direct nowadays.

Women could do a better job at stepping up their game on this.

[TruthBeTold77]

Honestly I can only speak for myself and I don't play dumb. I don't go out on dates or whatever with men I don't like and I'm not using anyone. If I feel like a guy who hasn't asked me out is doing to much it makes me unconformably and I'll say something.
#metoo? I honestly have no idea what you are speaking about or what this is.

But honestly best thing is to let it known you're interested and then back off and let her decide. Trust me if she actually does like you back she'll come to you and if she does then you guys can plan a date or something. But honestly if I'm REALLY interested in a guy I won't wait around wondering if he's interested or waiting for him to make a move, I'll just do it myself.

[Rei13]

It is hard to say the best way to go about it since every woman is different. For me personally if a guy tried to kiss me or get intimate within a few dates it would turn me off and I wouldn’t want to proceed with him. I’ve also almost solely dated men that I was friends with first. I got to know my boyfriend from going to the gym with him 3-4 times a week. It was no pressure and we just kind of started doing other things together outside of that and ended up dating. I think there should always be light flirting/chemistry there even in the just friends stage if it is someone you can see yourself dating and want to move to that point with.

[Asker]

Notice how I am getting mixed messages from other women in this thread on all of this.

I would like to do things you prefer by the way. But when I tried this approach in the past I only watch the girl quickly fall in love with someone else and then confidently friéndzone me.

I think most women have no idea what kind of insulting agony that is.

[Rei13]

It’s impossible to say what is the right thing to do and you will get a variety of answers here as everyone is different. I have been friend zoned by men that I liked because of how I looked. It happens. I know for me the chemistry was always there if we ended up dating, and if it wasn’t then we never went past friends

[Asker]

I can accept rejection. It’s life. You can't directly control if someone is physically attracted to you or not. I too had to romantically women before. It’s not fun.

But many women have this idea that they can still “bond” with a straight who likes them but they don’t feel the same back. That doesn’t work and women need to give that up. Instead be tactfully honest. It will burn but the guy will recover faster because he will realize she was honest out of respect.

[Asker]

*romantically reject women before.

[provokeesmokee]

Stop trying to be platonic, then.

Be straight up that you are romantically interested and pursue that for a while.

If you start off with "let's just be friends" THAT is your end point.

Even just "hey, I know we're still getting to know each other. I like you, and while I'd like to start as friends, I am interested in seeing if there's something more between us".

That worked when I got my first girlfriend.

Talk about your expectations for the relationship sooner rather than later.

AND STOP FRIENDZONING YOURSELF. You don't wanna her friend, you want to be her BOYFRIEND. Those are two different asks, buddy!

[Asker]

I have never “friendzoned” myself. Every women I was interested in when this happened knew damn well where I stood.

Also I haven’t accepted a friéndzone in over 12 years. I have had women try to this crap though. I called them out on it and walked away.

But again there seems to be no long term method to get to know someone the right way nowadays.

[provokeesmokee]

You know if you're being broken up with "let's just be friends" is a rejection and not "being friendzoned", right?

How do you date someone but end up in the friendzone?

If you keep getting rejected, then something about you is driving these women away.

Reflect on every reason and behaviour they've cited to you or that you recall had negative reception. Look at it from a different view or ask a woman in your family to help you gain her perspective.

If you're getting the same results, all the time, then you need to reflect on what you're doing wrong. Because something is clearly wrong.

[Asker]

You know if you're being broken up with "let's just be friends" is a rejection and not "being friendzoned", right?

Now why would a person say that? At best they might naively say it just to sound nicer with the rejection. But it is impossible to be real friend in that scenario with anybody if there is a mismatch in romantic feelings. Why would I remain friends with someone like that just watch them to get in a relationship and have true feelings for someone else?

At best she could not talk about the other person when we converse. I had a huge crush on one girl in college to did that when she started dating a different guy (who I knew). She never mentioned the other guys name but instead say “we did this” or “did that.” She knew it was very painful for me to hear about for him. At least she respected me enough to make that mental effort (most women aren’t like that).

But is that a true and open friendship? Nope. It will never be a real friendship nor will it last.

So do NOT ask a person if you can “just be friends” when you reject them. Instead say “hey I need to be honest out of respect. I am just not interested in you in that way. I hope we can be friendly after this but I will understand if I don’t hear from you anymore.” That’s painful but at least the other person feels respected. They might not thank you but they will be thankful.

I have been in the reverse position a few times by the way and that’s how I handled it. Treated the person how I would prefer to be treated. Honest but respectful.

[provokeesmokee]

Dude, if you don't wanna be friends with her, you don't have to.

But there's plenty of people who can develop a strong platonic bond when romantic feelings don't work out.

It isn't necessarily common, but it certainly isn't impossible.

I have friends I've been romantically tangled with who are now good platonic friends. They're not my closest friends, but we're friends.

Just because YOU can't do this, doesn't mean it's impossible.

[Asker]

Thanks for your feedback.

[MzAsh]

The only guys I’ve ever rejected (or friend zoned) were guys I was never attracted to physically or guys who I knew would probably cheat if given the chance or try to control me in some way. I would NEVER have sex with a guy after only 3 dates. That’s WAY too soon. I’ve always required commitment first.

[Anonymous]

No man I’ve ever dated started out as a friend. And no man who who is my friend has ever made it out of the friend zone. What separates friends from lovers is both physical attraction and the ability to keep my interest. Either these girls are just not as attracted to you as you thought, or there’s something you’re doing, or not doing, that is causing them to lose interest.

[Asker]

“ No man I’ve ever dated started out as a friend. And no man who who is my friend has ever made it out of the friend zone. ”

You but it all right on the head with those two sentences. Exactly what I am talking about.

[Asker]

“Hit it on the head”.

[petitedollbabee]

You don’t. Why would you want to be friends with someone if you don’t want to be their friend. Makes no sense and it’s deceptive.

[Asker]

I am not dumb enough to say “oh I want to be friends” when I really want more. But the “hey let’s get to know you each other” is often interpreted as the same thing as asking to be friends nowadays.

[petitedollbabee]

I see, personally I don’t interpret it as being friends, seeings how you should be getting to know someone before starting a relationship. But that’s usually done through dates, not friendship.

[MustangGirl01]

Some people do it the right way

[Anonymous]

Never show a romantic interests?