63% of men of Millennial and Gen Z have taken themselves off the dating market. Why is that?

[SixFootSexy]

Two different articles on the same issue:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/i-gen-z-men-my-generation-not-dating-why-should-we

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/25/young-men-relationships-study-week-in-patriarchy

[sawno]

So many different reasons:
- Our guys are increasingly right wing, the girls are increasingly left wing.
- Dating apps make it hell and lower everyone's self esteem.
- For girls its the reverse, they get to much attention from out of league men who then make them feel like they are in a league above except for the fact these men only care about them as side girls. Now they begin to reject men on their level as they consider them not good enough.
- Now another issue, so many girls get approached terribly and aggressively that if your a good guy you will just get snarled at if she's not interested. To her your just a number now, an annoyance like the 50 that came before you.
- The whole me to era making men afraid they get sexual assault charges for flirting.
- Men and women's lives not overlapping enough, so the only way they feel they can meet girls is trough the toxic means.

I bet there are more I missed, but these are a lot of them.

[sawno]

Oh right, one last important reason. 30+ year olds are stealing your women 20 year olds. This is normal now, we are established and your girls can get in contact with us and prefer an established man. You don't know that yet though, so you keep thinking its your fault your still single in your 20's and give up. Don't give up and keep working on yourself in the meantime, get established and the more established you get (House, career, financial stability, social skills, leadership, etc) the more attractive you become to where now suddenly those 20 year old peers you could not get want you.

[KlinkyCoder]

"Men, leave dating apps."

Women should definitely reciprocate with the same too.

[SixFootSexy]

@KlinkyCoder Too many people have "Computer Brain" and construct an artificial reality of who other people are in their own minds. When it doesn't match up with their experience, they go back to the apps and the cycle repeats.

[DarkWinterNights]

@SixFootSexy, “Computer Brain” you say? Hello fellow “Math” enjoyer.

[HawkPerception]

Words of gold

[SixFootSexy]

@DarkWinterNights I have learned more on Math's channel about relationships than years of doing my own research & development. My 20's would've been much different had I known what he's teaching now.

[jamesgoldman]

I scrap wedding bands every week so I'm cynical about the whole concept of love

Not to mention with my heart, taking someone to bed would probably kill me so there's that too

[OlderAndWiser]

Makes old guys like me look better!

[Cice137]

Many men and women really keep asking this, but no one really focuses on all the issues. These questions should have been asked decades ago, but no one really gives a damn about men's issues. From what I've been noticing a lot lately, the same surveys are asked years apart, and some of the same results keep getting asked to the extent that every ten years men 18-29 are not dating, or having sex. Every few years, etc... etc... The windows have been getting narrower for men at the bottom and wider for men at the top, (98.5/1.5 % window) All the " toxic nasty men" women in college were told about from their college feminist progressive professors ended up being the top achievers they chase after, while turning average men into the new toxic enemy. If successful men stand up against the "status quo," by the next morning they become a new public threat. Men have watched while they had friends or family get ruined in the family courts, child support, alimony, false accusations, divorce, working their entire life, losing everything, etc... After awhile men started to notice and walk away. Women hold all the cards at the poker table, game genie cheat codes, etc... Its hard for women to find men who make more then them if the diversity quota hires put those women at the very top above everyone else more qualified than them to do the same work. Men don't feel comfortable dating, or marrying women who make more then them or who are more educated. The last year men outpaced women in college as graduates was 1981. What men expect from dating, or marriage isn't considered, or taken seriously, plus in colleges over the years people were told "men have no agency." Men can't really go online and become a instant celebrity the same way women can go on only fans selling picture packs of their ass, unemployed, yet still make six figures... Average men are invisible to average women. I don't find anyone woman attractive that I meet and I probably haven't in close to ten years, female beauty on the inside and out has taken a dive in my opinion. For example I parked the same time as someone else and they had a nice BMW, and they also worked at the same place I stopped into visit real quick; the gas station. When I mentioned how they had a really nice car, she was also very attractive probably a 9-10 because that's all I care about approaching, with a condescending answer and voice she said "uhhh, ok … THANKS?" I saw that she was probably stressed, so I didn't say anything else. Basic women have turned into drama queen divas. Women can only get free attention and drinks for so long until it runs out, then they are ignored like the men they treated like shit. A lot of women only go on dating apps because of this … VALIDATION, hoping for a chance or reason to stay with or leave their current boyfriend, fiancé, or husband. The world is deteriorating, the vitriolic attack on men, women, the family is a part of the focus. More abortions, less people, more taxes, less social security and pensions. Women got into things guys don't like, tie dye hairs, more tattoos, piercings, botoxing everything. Men don't want to date single moms, because they might be forced into paying support for a non-blood relative, women have been wearing the ugly thick, wide old style librarian glasses because its used as a defense mechanism to ward off those nasty 98.5% of average men in order to appear to look ugly so they can get with the toxic alpha chads like Dan Bilzerian, and if the women have hookups with celebrities or rich men like Dan, then they become confident in their ability to only want to date those types of men because they convince themselves they have reached a new point in their dating live; no other guy can match their new hypergamy. Then within the last couple of years women told men in general #MeToo so, and leave us alone! … after seeing men like Johnny Depp, and Al Pacino get fucked over, etc... what's the actual point of even trying anymore. Lot of us are virgins', never married, etc... Personally I haven't really talked to most of my family in over ten years because I'm still single and I'm useless to them apparently because I'm nearly homeless, not married, don't have kids, no degree and they all earn six figures. Pretty soon society will just severely shame single men for not opening themselves up to the divorce, or alimony scheme, etc... People only pretend to give a shit about men because deep down were just a side attraction of no significant value. Even if we got caught up to 100+ years of family reform matching women on par 1:1 it would take us a long time just to get the taste and experiences out of our systems. We were told MeToo, walk away, leave us alone, "don't apply if you don't have six or seven figures, a six pack, six ft. tall plus." We did what was asked of us and we walked away, because we aren't good enough, no one has juice that's worth the squeeze.

I could go on, but should cut this short. Have a good day everyone!!

[SixFootSexy]

Not a bad writeup, but use some paragraph breaks next time, eh?

[Cice137]

You asked a good question that most are to afraid to ask, or even write about. A good book from ten years ago that addresses this topic is by Dr. Helen Smith. Ph. D called "Men on strike: why men are boycotting marriage, fatherhood, and the American dream and why it matters." There's also the books by Esther Vilar if you can find them from the 1970s.

Happy holidays everyone.

[KrakenAttackin]

@Cice137. Well said.

[deus_ex_sisyphus]

there's an old experiment where people took flees that could jump 2 feet and put them in a 6 inch jar with a lid. In time the lid came off, but the flees could no longer jump 2 feet.

a similar social experiment was repeated with monkeys, wherein 4 monkeys were locked in a cell that had a ladder with bananas inside of it. But, whenever a monkey climbed the ladder to eat a banana; all monkeys in the cell got sprayed with water. So, no monkey would reach for a banana. Monkeys were then replaced with a new monkey; old monkeys would beat up the new monkey when they reached for the fruit. Eventually all monkeys got replaced and the hose was removed, yet the social implications of reaching for the banana remained the same; they got beat up by monkeys who had no idea the hose existed.

I think its something like that too many people have absorbed themselves in social media and its conditioned the way they think. "Why would I bother looking for a girl whose only after my money" "Why would I look for a guy who only wants to use my body" - In short, if you hear a message enough itll confirm your bias and that lie will create an illusion of truth.

TLDR - Through social media addition, people have conditioned despair into their relationships and given up on them.

[SixFootSexy]

Great studies and social insight.

[GreenLanternI0I]

Why? Because Top 15%'s (men) are living their sexual lives to the Very fullest by abusing those dating apps for their own selfish gratification, while leaving the rest 85% in a dust while at the same time giving the rest 85% a really bad rap. On the other spectrum, you have 95% of girls who are chasing those top 15%'s (men) in hopes to make them marry them (which is a fantasy) and completely ignoring the rest 85%. Question to all the girls out there. Why would top 15%'s settle down with one, if they can sleep around with 1000's? with EASE.

[KrakenAttackin]

@GreenLanternI0I. It's actually the top 4.5% of men that are banging the living hell out of most women.

[BoopBoopBeep]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/what-percent-young-adults-obese/2021/12/03/b6010f98-5387-11ec-9267-17ae3bde2f26_story.html

[SixFootSexy]

When a good portion of "food" is processed poison, it's no surprise. Intentional move by lobbyists from Big Food to make more customers for Big Pharma.

Seed oils are essentially engine lubricant and should be outlawed.

[BoopBoopBeep]

True story. I never used seed oil before my heart attack sure wouldn't now.

[Anonymous]

Because marriage is shit for men today. Not all marriages... some are successful and happy, but half of marriages end in divorce and women file 80% of them. And we all know men get screwed in divorce and child custody. Add to that the fact that marriage does not offer men as many benefits as it used to. Long story short, marriage is not worth the risk anymore.

In the past marriage was teh carrot that kept men interested in dating. That carrot is essentially gone now, so why bother with dating?

[Anonymous]

Because THEY believe they cannot provide a good life to a woman, much less a full family. They see themselves as failures when they compare what they have, what they make, to others who already have it well established, wife, house, kids, and just cannot see themselves doing that, making it all way too complicated in their minds and when they really do what that they just give up and decide to take that stress off and instead be sad and resign..

so even if they did find someone that didn’t want all that, they still wouldn’t go for it because they themselves feel they can’t provide a good life. Then they come here saying it’s because WOMEN aware the ones that prefer someone else with better this better that but it’s they themselves that feel less than others and can’t surpass that.

[KrakenAttackin]

Anon... you are talking about HOEFLATION.

[Katebfun]

@KrakenAttackin Quit Harassing people on here. LOSER

[blueonblack22]

Anón. Just analyzing your sentence “ Because THEY believe they cannot provide a good life to a woman, much less a full family.”

So women are entitled to a “good life” from men which translates into “a man that makes a lot more money then me that I can financially depend on?”

Not saying deadbeat men should expect viable women to date them. Hell no. But what about the guys who are in the range of making slightly less, equal or slightly more then women? I guess if they are both making $100k a year it’s not a big deal.

But the median salary in the US is $52,612. How many women who make $55k a year want to marry a man who makes $45k to $65k a year (considering all else equal with looks, special tslents, etc).

Also modern feminism has absolutely confused the living f*ck out of men and women. Women subconsciously desire to en protected and taken care of by a man. But they keep saying “oh im strong and independent”.

I make a lot more then the median salary by the way. Not rich but definitely ahead of the game. You wouldn’t believe how many women think they just because they are women that it’s somehow responsibility to “save” their broke, lazy and pathetic asses. Their not all 21 year old hotties who think this way either.

[grega239]

You forgot to add womens unreasonable expectations and increasingly insuffrable attitudes

[KrakenAttackin]

@Katebfun Who am I harassing?

[Katebfun]

@KrakenAttackin HOEFLATION

[monorprise]

Most of them can't compete with the woman much less her parents as a result of changes in educational techniques in the 90's driving boys away form learning.

Today most men who went to school then or after are economically in a very sorry shape as a result. So no they can't provide many if any women a better life then what she already has. As most women expect that nearly all men know she will walk all over him if she even gives him a chance at all.

Many of whom would do so in a very cruel way. So its a big risk for which goes against everything men are by nature programed to avoid.
Theses men need women below them on the economic latter who might actually appreciate what they can offer.

[blueonblack22]

@monorprise the thing is women think the only way they can get “ahead” is by pushing down men. Fighting “patriarchy”.

But what they don’t get is harming men ultimately harms women. If men fail then WOMEN FAIL.

Reason being God, Mother Nature, evolution, etc intended to BOUND women and men together for companionship and relationship purposes. There is something also something intangible that only a man can offer a woman and vice versa (not going to get it the gay dynamic).

All modern feminism insanity will ultimately do is drive WOMEN to more depression and unhappiness. BECAUSE IT IS NOT HOW THINGS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE. These women are literally creating their own extinction now (abortion, getting sterilized, etc)

[monorprise]

@blueonblack22 Women are taught to blame their problems on the "patriarchy" some of them are dumb enough to even beleive this is true. But that is a ever more delusional and shrinking population as it becomes ever more self-evident how poorly men are doing. Thanks to changes made by said sexist in their schooling as little boys.

A patriarch would never have allowed those disastrous changes to happen if it existed, it would not have chosen to ignore and do nothing as boy's academically fell thou the floor year after year.

What we have is a toxic feminist elite and we have had it for 40+ years.

[KrakenAttackin]

@blueonblack22 Very well said.

[KrakenAttackin]

@monorprise Very true. The war on men and boys is very real. The societal consequences are just beginning to be felt. It is quite possible that giving women power will lead to the downfall of the west.

[KrakenAttackin]

@Katebfun Research the term HOEFLATION and you will understand.

[Katebfun]

@KrakenAttackin okay, maybe some woman this is true. There are other woman like myself forced to be celibate in order to wait for a good man. Can't say "ALL" women are Hoes...

[blueonblack22]

@Katebfun personally when I say “women are like this” and “women are like that” I am talking in generalizations and I often on my questions give disclaimers that there are exceptions to the rule. I know there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule.

With that said women have always been the gatekeepers to dating, sex and marriage. They are usually in the position to yes or no. They are usually are in the position to stay with a man or leave him. That is their “area”. That was mother natures way of evening the score given the benefits men traditionally (but no longer) held.

Now the dating standards for average western men have exponentially have increased. Not only are we still expected “protect and provide” but we held to all these new and impossible standards to “understand” women and never “offend them”. Their loyalty will only last as long as they find the man valuable for her own ends.

But men aren’t superhuman. We do have breaking points. Many of us have determined that when the pain/risk of trying to pursue a woman exceeds the benefit/rewards of doing so we will give up.

There are lot of reasons of this (social media, dating apps, digitization, etc).

But I have absolutely zero doubt modern feminism is BY FAR THE NUMBER ONE CULPRIT for this horrible trend. Women now have “political” demands of men. It’s not just the women who “identify” as feminist either.

This problem is pervasive and negatively influencing mainstream women when it comes to their dating decisions and men. Men don’t know wtf to do. So now they are not surprisingly doing nothing and quitting.

[Opinion Owner]

@blueonblack22 no, I don't think that and I didn't say that. I even capitalized "THEY". THE MEN, put that on themselves. Therefore the rest of your entire sermon is pointless. Men put up the standard for themselves. THEY don't feel they are GOOD enough based on what they have, what they can provide and compare themselves to other men who already have a wife with kids, a home and better paying job.

[blueonblack22]

So you believe most men think they are entitled to someone who is better then them?

In my life experience I’ve had one and I do mean only one woman fall in love with me who was my true equivalent (when you weigh in looks, status, intelligence, career, money, etc.).

The rest of the woman I’ve met usually had real deficiencies and were trying to “date up”. Looking to me as their savior or some bs. Then other women who were on par with me always thought they deserved better.

Hypergamy is a REAL thing. Very real.

eightify.app/.../the-secret-of-hypergamy-how-women-choose-partners-biological-societal-function

[Opinion Owner]

in general women want someone that can provide a good future together with her not you alone, for the children you will have. that is important there is not doubt in that. it's not being a gold digger it's being smart. That's besides the point.

he's asking why men have put them selves off the market.

I stated it's because THEY have determined they are not good enough, even if they were to find someone that wants them, most men today don't want to try hard for it if they don't have it made already and instead say women want this women want that and I have nothing etc etc. because they are comparing themselves to relatives or friends who already have it all and they turn to see themselves and have no home, no car maybe, just about getting by and see a woman in their life as a stress instead of something lovely to build a life with. it's MEN putting up these standards because they compare themselves to others using websites like what you just posted. you go read that and determine OH I'm not good enough, that's what they want so I just give up and be alone wa wa. etc etc. or not even wa wa, just resign and be depressed in your lonesome world.

I don't think you understand, but you basically did what I'm talking about, precisely even posting a link to it.

[blueonblack22]

OP I do understand more then you realize.

So at 35 I had the following:

- A 6 figure paying job
- A house I OWNED
- An athletic body and a full head of hair
- An interesting past (ex pro mma fighter)
- Well traveled
- Well educated

These are the kind of women who feel in love with me. And I went on a shit load of dates (and I found out their negative characteristics later):

- Women who are under employed or unemployed
- Attractive yet worthless young women who were looking for a sugar daddy and/or an emotional “savior”
- Women who had good personalities but didn’t take care of their bodies. While I try to look deeper I am not going to fall in love with a girl who weighs more than I do (I am an athletic 185). One girl like this thought she had a shot on this too. I very politely turned her down but that’s just not going to happen
- Women including grown ass women in their 30s who STILL think grown men will go along with their friéndzone bullshit because I’m a nice guy.
- Women who make it a full time to proselytize their far left political views. I NEVER bring up politics on a first date. Never.

Women have no idea and very little appreciation for how much it takes out of a man who is trying to seriously date. We got to stick our necks out approaching. Set up the date. Carefully qualify her while she openly qualifies us. Make a move if we are interested. Tolerate shit testing. And now more and more women are pushing politics like it’s a religion.

[blueonblack22]

It’s not just the male slackers, burnouts, incels and man boys who live in their parents basement who are struggling. There are relatively successful men who have successful careers, decent money, interesting hobbies, etc that are being held to insanely high standards. Most of these men would of been married by now in a different time era.

But now they’re dealing with insane modern feminism bs. So yes they are getting frustrated, angry, depressed and quitting. Yes many of them do develop more problems out of loneliness (porn, video games, addictions). That’s their own bad decision. But really it’s modern women who started all this bullshit.

That’s not to say men should give up. But dating is NOT the same way for men as it is for women. Never had been but that’s could not be any more true than it is in modern times.

[Opinion Owner]

@blueonblack22 so basically you just added something to my answer to the question.
so men who are broke decide to stay alone/off the market because THEY believe they are not good enough
and the other type of men are those like you
men who are NOT broke who think they are TOO good for the type of women they attract.

So there it is the full entire answer to this guy's question here.
I had not realized I was placing you all in the same boat. but there's 2 types, the I'm not good enough because you want something better type and the YOU'RE not good enough because I want something better type.

[blueonblack22]

Well is this dynamic happening or is it not? And again who calls the shots in the early stages of the relationship?

Women might get away with some short term benefits. But ultimately they make themselves miserable.

Also I know there are exceptions to the rule and not all men are “noble”.

[Lionman95]

I would say the short answer is they don't know how to date. They tried and failed so they give up because there are other things that generate pleasure. Dating is easy for some and hard for others and especially average guys that don't have much to brag about in life turn away from dating assuming their chance is 0 anyways.

[PBandJ_Nerd]

I sometimes think my generation is just wanting to enjoy being young and figuring out what they want to do with their lives first. Waiting until you're older to date isn't a bad thing at all, since you'll be more mature and know what you want & are looking for.

[SixFootSexy]

It's good for men, but arguably much worse for women. Since female desirability is tethered to youth and beauty.

[PBandJ_Nerd]

Anyone who does that will miss out on some great women in my opinion. I've seen lots of older women that are beautiful, so most of those people are just making excuses to not date them based on age alone.

[SixFootSexy]

They could be fun, but usually they have sky-high expectations... would a guy really settle down with Sharon Stone, for instance?
nypost.com/.../

[purplepoppy]

It's because they read crap online about how women only want 7ft millionaires with 10inch dicks and they believe it. These guys need to grow up drop and drop the hate because that's what's holding them back.

[aceleon]

actually many guys who doesn't believe this shits also left that market the ones you talk about was never actually a part of that market or they have almost 0 experience with woman especially the money part, most of us left that market because we have either no trust in woman, don't like how modern womans turned out to be or we don't want the responsibility.
for me it's all 3:
- i don't truts woman well to be honest i don't trust man either if i was bi or gay i wouldn't date a guy either cheating rate is too high for anyone to be look trust worthy or believe they will stay trustworthy as the time pasts.
- i don't like the way modern girls acts or lives, i don't like the hook up culture (just because i take advantage of it doesn't mean i approve of it) i don't like revealing dresses, i don't like social media addiction, i don't like attention whores (or whores in general) i don't like the pseudo liberalism they follow etc etc. in short i don't like modern woman.
-i detest every kind of responsibility the biggest responsibility and commitment i am willing to take is taking care of an animal or a kid (boys to be exact, sure i love little girls they are adorable but only until they reach teenhood, then they turn in to the modern woman i don't like and i'm not about to raise one of them also with boys i don't have to fear that if they are in danger by the time they reach adulthood they will be morethan capable of protecting themselves if they are my kids)

[KrakenAttackin]

@purplepoppy. It's not crap. The top 80% of women are chasing the top 4.5% of men. Almost all of the remaining men are invisible to even very average women.

[strateguy632]

start reading lady profiles... not a myth "if not 6ft dont message me".

[aceleon]

@strateguy632 are you considering them real girls? they are either trolles or severely mentally ill girls you wouldn't want anyway

[DarkWinterNights]

Believe it or not, it’s their own experiences and the other women in their lives that validate this thinking. Their mothers, sisters, sisters friends, friends’ girlfriends/wives, teachers, coworkers, the women they do match with, etc.

And most men (even red pill and black piller’s) don’t hate women, they just don’t trust them.

[KrakenAttackin]

@aceleon "Severely mentally ill girls", are so common that their delusion is becoming normalized.

[aceleon]

@KrakenAttackin what can you say to the truth bro.

[KrakenAttackin]

@DarkWinterNights Spot on correct! It's not about hate, it's about trust.

[ImalwaysrightOK]

Most women nowadays are completely undesirable to relationship minded men. They have no idea what men are attracted to and don't care to learn, so men decided no commitments or relationships, just either not date or only have sex with women.

[KrakenAttackin]

Women who are 30+ who get married all believe they are "settling", no matter how good the man is. These same women constantly dream of the Chad's who blew their back out in their 20's and have nothing but contempt for the good man they married. What happens? These entitled, selfish, dishonorable, women destroy their families, punish their children, destroy their husbands, all because they can't get over how Chad made them feel behind the dumpster at her favorite club.

[KrakenAttackin]

"And don't care to learn"... THIS is the key point and is absolutely correct.

[Anonymous]

Why does a person date? To form a lasting relationship? To possibly marry? Most younger generation women do not want either. So what would be the point of younger men dating? I feel for younger men that want to date. It makes sense why they wouldn't bother anymore though.

[front2back]

Because it sucks.
Money in taking a girl on a date aside, many times women treat it like you're wasting their time or night out by having the date and it's really just demoralizing.
Also many women do not want you to approach you anymore and it's better for the slim chance she makes the move than end up on a TikTok because you simply tried to ask her out but she got the "ick".

[genericname85]

because the expectations towards men are impossibly high and what men get for actually bringing all these outrageous expectations to the table is pretty much nothing, cause in the popular culture, as a woman you can be entiteled to everything "you deserve" while providing nothing a man may want.

[ODC2112]

Very cinic answer. The woman has raised the bar of the minimum acceptable level; therefore, a large wall of men no longer even try because they know they will be rejected. The gain that a woman generally gives as compensation is very low; besides her vagina, there is very little.
​

[captain_voidwalker]

Well women didn't want us in the market anyway so why bother. I have better ahit to do with my time then trying to pretend I won't have to die alone. And make no mistake guys like me are going to die alone and God himself can't change that outcome. So just get used to the idea and move on.

[XXTruthfulOgrexx]

Basically there is no one I am interested in dating. There is no benefit besides physical interaction and I do not need to date for that.

We actively avoid entering into any relationship.

[Anonymous]

If the only requirement a man had was 'she must be a true woman of God' how many women in this culture do you think would fit that requirement...

[bededazzle]

because it makes no difference probably. if they bump into a good partner in the real world as opposed to online, they might change their minds.

[msc545]

Unfairness of the legal system, child support, alimony, false accusations and much more. Not worth the risk.