Personally, it has to be a mix of things, especially when it comes to each man and woman.
There are a few questions I think about concerning this topic :
• What about dating are these men not want to pursue or commit to?
• Is the pool, population, group, or selection of women to blame in some way?
• What traits or qualities do these men have or do not have that could be negatively affected their dating life and view of women?
I think every man needs to work on themselves to create an improved version of themselves in some way, whether that be working out, trying out a new clothing style, finding work they are passionate about, etc.
There's so much a man can do to improve themselves, their dating life, and their quality of life overall.
Every man needs to also find out what they truly want in a woman and intelligently go on about meeting these types of women.
For example, if you do not like women who are promiscuous or have been with a lot of sexual partners, then avoid locations, situations, and other factors that may give you these types of women. Also, ask questions regarding a woman's past so that you can decide if this woman is right for you or not.
I think being more cognizant of what you want and don't want in a woman can help tremendously in your dating experience, as well as trying to improve yourself and your life in a multitude of ways.
Men are giving up on dating/relationship for the following reason:
1. Thanks to internet, a lot of men are realising that a lot of modern day women are hoes and guys don't see worth in committing to one. aka the idea of her being a princess worthy of chasing is broken.
2. Modern day women are often too selfish and self absorbed and only care about what they are getting out of the relationship and have little care about the man's wants/needs.
3. Women unrealistic and picky standards. Thanks to women being able to work and make their own money, as well as, male simps online, a lot of women see no value in men unless they make significantly more money than them and/or are really good looking. A lot of men are opting out since they can't meet those demands.
4. Many men are looking at their parent's relationship and realizing that the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Women initiate vast majority of break up and the first one in the romantic pairing to be unhappy/bored when it comes to monogamy.
5. A lot of guys who do get a chance to date and then go back to being single often remark that dating modern day women sucks. Hearing this, men who are single will be deterred in wanting to pursue this avenue.
6. Men are often told to work on themselves and self improve. While women are told they are perfect and deserve a high, quality man just for existing. So when men build themselves up and have a clear head (aka not clouded by sex drive), they realise that committing to these women just isn't worth it.
7. Metoo, false rape claims, believe all women, IG shaming and cancel culture. A lot of women have made dating a toxic and fearful environment for men to even approach. Even Chad, Henry cavill, has attribute some of these as a deterrent in him wanting to pursue women.
8. A lot of women are a liability and not an assets. A lot of them lack the traits that men want in a partner and try to apply their standards onto themselves in order to define what a high, quality woman is. And when are vocal of any standards that they want in a partner, they are often shamed by society as being "misogynistic", "entitled" or "superficial".
9. Porn/escort addiction. For a lot of men who were left out to dry (In 2018 at least 30% of men were defined as sexless), they often use porn as their outlet for sexual release. Regularly use of porn can lead to addiction which in turn can lead to decrease levels of serotonin. Serotonin is a hormone which drives one to want social interaction. With this being low men have no desire in wanting to pursue a relationship. For escorts, men becoming accustom with ease of getting sex with beautiful women. A lot of guys then don't see a point in pursuing an average women with a worse body that likely will perform worse in the bedroom compared to what he normally gets with an escort.
There's a large percentage of women who have had their expectations completely skewed by social media (mostly Instagram) and by dating apps, and these women will not date men even close to their own level - they only want the ultra hot guys (the ones who, in the rare case that they agree to a relationship commitment, it will only be with a legit super model or top actress - and will usually cheat on her anyway), or they want the guys with yachts and private jets who will take her to $1000 a person dinners and pay for her designer shopping trips. She might be a 6/10, but she believes she's a 10, or at least a 9.5, and she is expecting a 10/10 outcome. She won't get it, but she can get men near that level to give her some attention (if he can bang her) for a little while, so she really believes that she's at that level.
Not all of that group is quite so delusional, but still have unrealistic expectations and will reject any guy who doesn't meet those expectations outright.
And these are the women who are more likely to be encountered out in the world, because the more reasonable and grounded girls tend not to go out nearly as much.
When guys get rejected almost immediately, again and again and again, or if they get a date and the girl complains that the date isn't upscale enough and she is on her phone the whole time, guys eventually give up and check out.
Yes, there are a few guys who are really good looking who have no problem with girls - girls make their interest very clear, but those guys only use girls for sex, and replace them as soon as they become a hassle.
Your guy who is a 5, 6, or 7, even an 8, usually get blown off by girls, or used for food and entertainment, and they realize that the game is stacked against them, and that the girls aren't looking for personality and values, but rather good looks and money, and they just feel that it's pointless to bother.
I'm sure it just gets tiring to find a girl now a days who is actually interested. It's like how I lost my black balisong knife. I was putting away something and looking for my black ba- oh hey, there's my knife I lost. Thought I had to buy another
Social media made dating a pain in the ass because now everyone has the same views on dating. Back in the day, you got to formulate your own opinions and didn’t try to live like everyone else because there wasn’t connections to see what everyone else is doing.
So it's better to have a man be in an abusive relationship with someone who treats him like dirt and expects perfection, than it is to be alone? I'm sorry, but that's f*cking STUPID. As if most women nowadays are worth jumping through hoops for and being a slave towards. Not that I expect most men over 40 to understand this, as they still think it's the 1960s and "ladies" still exist out there.
Either that or we’d just rather not waste our time dating crap woman. Not to say all women are, but most young women my age (early 20’s) lack the proper maturity for a relationship.
@MCheetah "So it's better to have a man be in an abusive relationship with someone who treats him like dirt and expects perfection, than it is to be alone?" Are those the only two options that you see?
@OlderAndWiser You said "I think the guys who give up are fragile males who can't handle rejection and who lack a competitive spirit."
What TF other options are there? Either be with the wrong woman, or don't. The second option is "giving up" to you because a man chose to not be a cuck. It's not like there's a lot of good people out there left, on either side (although there's even less good women left out there).
Again, I severely doubt you'll get it, due to the generation gap and you still thinking it's the 60s. You don't seem to have any empathy for the crap men go through nowadays because you - and likely any sons you have - are already with someone.
1. I don't thnk it's the 1960's. I quite attuned to the contemporary world. I mentor young men in college and spend time with them every week. I work with younger people. I relly am not the last dinosaur romaning the earth!
2. Having a negatve attitude about women becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
3. Do you think that in the 1960's, every girl who I dated was a perfect little princess? Hahaha!
It's more so a negative attitude about society in general.
I see LOTS of decent women here on GAG. I just also know they're all married, lesbians, or live thousands of miles away from where I even lived in the US (Pennsylvania).
I think you should ask yourself WHY do so many men have this "negative attitude," rather than shaming them for constantly being sh*t on by modern women and society in general. Cause it didn't come out of nowhere and these men all just aren't "incels and losers" as you imply.
@OlderAndWiser I disagree that they can to begin with. Bribing a woman to be with you and then having her divorce you the moment you lose your job isn't what I'd call "a good partner." So we'd simply disagree on that matter, considering 50% of adult men are currently single, and 30% of men in their 20s and 30s are still virgins nowadays.
I don't know ANY men in "happy long-term relationships" right now; in real life or the internet. The ones in relationships are miserable and the rest of the (unattractive) single ones are also miserable.
But you can answer the original question I asked you about why these men feel this way, if you want. Or not.
@MCheetah "And college hookups aren't happy long-term relationships either." I know, but I stay in touch with these guys after they graduate and I attend their weddings or at least see their wedding announcements.
I do know that marriage rates have dropped over the past two decades, but the divorce rate has fallen even faster than the marriage rate, suggesting that people who are not ready for marriage are not submitting to pressure or simply following the herd, and that is a good thing. But those statistics are, admittedly, a little afield of "can a guy find a decent girl to date?"
That question is loaded with so much subjectivity that I don't see how it can be answered in any valid way.
it's a combination of many things from fear mongering propaganda, to pop culture, social media, politics, materialism, no manners, no virtue, no integrity etc. as displayed by current modern day society.
the results many men wanted aren't being yielded for them despite many of them are lowering their standards or even abolishing their standards to the point they'll accept anyone and anything from a woman, including disrespect and abuse.
on the flip side women are increasing their standards unrealistically to the point of delusion and some standards make no sense i. e. height. standards alone aren't the issue but the expectation that every man can meets those standards is not realistic.
there's also the emotional baggage and trauma to handle whether it's from the woman herself or the baggage she inflicts upon him through emasculation tactics.
dating for men is no different than a job interview and if you don't tick off the right boxes, you're immediately disqualified. and dating often takes time, money and resources which could be put to better use in other areas of life.
social media and the online world has most people's eyes glued to an electronic screen. modern women these days can't even put down their phones for 2 secs. parks and neighborhoods that used to be populated with communities are becoming more and more empty. no one smiles or waves anymore when you greet them or walk past them in the street (some old folks still do that but they're a dying breed).
despite all these issues, the biggest issue by far is the lack of acknowledgement that these issues even exist. while I don't necessarily recommend guys opt out, I don't blame them for giving up. sometimes in life when you get shot too many times by too many bullets, it's just time to lay down your life.
For me, it's because there was no one worth dating in my high school of only 100 students, and I had no way to date girls from other schools, so I had no experience going into my first relationship as a college freshman. Then she was awful and trued to ghost me after she had been having another guy teach her to drive a standard while still supposedly dating me. She dumped her boyfriend before me to be with me, so I should've expected it.
Since then, I have found almost 0 girls worth dating, even in college. The several girls who did like me were nightmares, and the girls I liked were always taken.
90% of my options are either whores or fat and often both. Why would I want to date either? It's made me consider just playing the field and not even trying to find a genuine connectiom anymore since it seems like no girls are left in my area whonare worth caring about. Obviously there are girls in other places and countries who are great! But not only are they almost all taken, I will likely never meet any of them. So why even try?
Because they don't have the discipline to work on themselves. In short my answer would that everybody has a highamount of options on paper therefore people start dating with a high expectation of what the other person should have that also might surpass their own skills.
Back in the day a guy chose a partner out of 5 women nowadays if I open bumble/ hinge /tinder or whatever app I have 500 women or more to get in contactwith. Shifting dating to online made it a problem.
Dating comes easy to some and is hard work for others. I think the points you mentioned are right, the problem is just that many guys have it harder coming to that conclusion especially if they try to figure out dating and their problems with women on their own.
Because since guys try to learn dating on their own they often have bad experiences that lead them to certain assumptions. It takes time and to reflection on what went wrong and how to improve but instead many guys look for short cuts that are no where to be found but they constantly compare themselves to guys that make getting a woman being interested in them look easy.
I think guys that give up on dating and on women don't have friends or healthy role models to help them but instead they look on the social media of successful people which makes them more miserable.
Without typing an entire book on this, I'll shortly explain it by saying:
- Most women nowadays are too entitled, arrogant, and immature, and offer more negatives to a relationship than positives.
- These same women are 5s at best, asking for 9s and 10s, and the loser simp men out there inflate their egos to where they think its justified.
- The dating pool is filled with too many bisexuals/lesbians/dykes and too few straight women.
- The dating pool is filled with too many whores, cheaters, "polyamorous" females, and thots.
- The dating pool is filled with too many angry feminist c*nts/woke women who despise all men.
- The dating pool is filled with too many trannies.
So too many sh*tty women out there, and not enough positives gained from them, especially when they expect YOU to be literal, actual perfection, while they're crazy/horrible people.
I know I am not perfect, but I am definitely a high quality dating partner, even if I'm not over six feet or earning six to seven figures. I don't need to be literal perfection if women out there can't appreciate me for who I am, even if that's less than perfect.
I also hate all the dumb-ass cucks on here saying "only losers quit on women" as if most men are tall, handsome, successful, good looking, wealthy, highly confident, etc., and that men should dedicate years or even decades of their life, just to be "worthy" for some dumb 5 out of 10 on Tinder, while these women literally put in NOTHING to be "worthy" to said men.
So, men have to become socially acceptable and "work on becoming" perfect, while women have to do nothing, and no, its the MEN WHO OPT OUT OF THAT, who are "pathetic." Fuck off, losers. I'm not even saying that men SHOULD quit on women, but saying they need to continue being slaves and that not doing so is the "loser's choice" is such massive projection and hypocrisy.
The TL;DR is, MOST women in modern society aren't worth such work. Self-acceptance and happiness is worth far more than pussy. I'm far from self-actualized and even *I* understand that. You guys keep being cucks to society, though.
Men are told constantly we need to step-up while women are told they're perfect just the way they are and deserve the best despite looking like moldy bread and acting like veruca salt.
Any criticism of the opposite sex means you hate all women and need to go to feminist confession to absolve yourself from the sins of judging any woman for her actions since there's no such thing as a bad woman. It's just men who made her do a bad thing.
Because people in the West have become too soft, and don't know hownto persevere.. One bad thing happens to them and they are ready to blame the world and quit.. Sure there are a heath of women out there who are just insufferable, but casting that on all women and just quitting is not the way to go. All this "independence" people are trying to act like they crave so much is what's making everybody (men and women) lonely and frustrated.. It doesn't help that we are being taught to focus too much on ourselves..
"For example, if you do not like women who are promiscuous or have been with a lot of sexual partners, then avoid locations, situations, and other factors that may give you these types of women."
Lmfao bro. I went through a phase of only dating young like 18 and 19 yo church girls... none were saving themselves for marriage. Not sure where you can go to find a Virgin anymore besides an elementary school because they are having sex at like 12 these days. It's pretty sick they are doing this stuff instead of waiting until they are older.
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I'm not entirely sure you understand what I'm saying.
I'm not saying every woman I meet has to be a virgin.
No I'm saying if you're a man who wants to find a woman waiting for marriage... good luck, these are the men I see many give up on dating. There's no point really.
There are tons of women who are waiting to have sex until marriage, you just have to be the kind of person that that kind of woman would want. If you aren't then you aren't going to be able to attract one.
I'm seeing men, primarily in the US since that's where I'm based and have the most experience, giving up on women here because of feminism, political correctness, promiscuity, social media, etc.
It's not really an issue of waiting until marriage, rather, more of the above factors.
I agree. With what you said which includes promiscuity which in part is the idea of waiting till marriage. If one sleeps with people on the first date, one will either marry the first or second person they sleep with (not likely in our society) or they will be promiscuous.
I'm just saying, you and I have witnessed and seen different things.
I've seen men who don't care for the woman to be a virgin, rather, have seen the general population of women change in probably more negative ways than positive and therefore affecting women and men relations.
Now, for more casual sex such as hookups, one-night stands, and more all of this worry isn't as warranted because casual sex of all types is a lot less commital in financial, physical, and emotional ways than relationships.
So, I'm just wondering what has society and all other factors done to change women for the worse if this is true?
@suzzieQ women working outside the home, not having kids, having premarital or just casual sex in general, not even dressing or looking feminine. There's more. That's a start.
Women have been working outside of the home for centuries, they have also been having premarital sex since the beginning of time, why would women want to dress feminine when we are blamed for being sexual assault based on what they are wearing... none of this is new. None of these are inherently negative either, it looks like they are just things that you don't like...
@suzzieQ thats generally not true. Only upon the advent of the industrial revolution and in cities has the concept of jobs outside the home ever even been a thing. And in most times and places women were not allowed to hold those jobs. This was the norm. If one woman somewhere held a job its not relevant because most didn't. Recently only during ww2 and after did women hold jobs outside of the home.
Women dressing conservatively or slutty is what people are talking about with the sexual assault. Not feminine or androgynous or masculine. My girlfriend dresses very conservative but ultra feminine 99% of the time unless I direct her to do otherwise and I am accompanying her then I direct her to dress like a ho but still feminine. Lol. While dressing sluty is a separate complaint, I'm talking about girls who never wear dresses, cut their hair short, wear baggy jeans, like wtf dude wants to be with that? Smh.
Women have been, maids, wet nurses, cooks, etc... for basically ever...
Just because a women dresses in a way that you dont like doesn't make it a negative. Why would you even care about how random women dress when you have a girlfriend? It shouldn't matter. It's not like they exist to gratify you, or anyone else for that matter.
Right… and the very poor made up the majority of the population…
If men don’t usually want to date women who dress slutty than why do so man men date women who dress slutty?
If you didn’t care, than why did you bring it up and dedicate an entire point of why you think it’s all negative to women who have short hair and wear loose jeans?
As a fellow church goer there seems to be a lot more young women than men attending, but a lot of the women are dating outside the church and outside their faith.
I think social media has had a huge negative impact. And so many females now a days see pretty girls on Instagram and all over social media and the whole drive of girl boss independent leads a lot of it. They have excessively high standards which only a small portion of the male population qualifies for. Not all females are like that but a lot of the dating pool is like that. And not to mention the rise of onlyfans and other avenues of making money easily. It a complex issue with no simple single answer. But I believe part of it is the world we have created with technology.
I'm sick of getting lied to! Of answering the same ass questions over and over again or like have the same ass conversations again and again. I'm sick of meeting someone who seems great and then it turns out that there is something wrong like kinks or just different views to say it easy or rarely nothing is wrong and it just doesn't fit. And I'm sooo sick of being objectified. Dating sucks, I don't date.
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Can you give an example of you being objectified during dating? And is it really common or often?
Lmao I already feel objectified walking down the street and getting stares or comments, but from my dating experiences some examples would be: "Damn that ass" "So how do you work out to get that ass?" "You do have kinda big boobs for your height" "You're so pretty" "I would love to touch your ass" "Imagine me fucking you" "Do you only train glutes at the gym?" *unasked dick pic* "Don't be so prude, It's nothing wrong with having a f+" etc. (And yeah most comments even came from "average" dudes, to make that clear too) I's also the context of it all, like just once asking ok sure but they don't follow up whit questions about me as a person, my dreams or wishes or even if they do, they kinda talk down on me.
Dating sucks, cause you have to get through a bunch of these guys, until you might be lucky to meet a man and then you have to hope that it fits with both of you and mostly it doesn't
I used to meet them in public, while shopping, cafes, gym, chilling at this park, through friends of friends, few on dating apps... literally everything lol
Look I know what you're asking, I ain't doing a mistake, I ain't choosing wrong from the first sight, I seem to be unlucky lmaoo So I don't date, I'm happy, my family is happy, everyone else is too and one day I think somehow by surprise I will meet someone but till that day I ain't going through shit anymore
So, I don't want to say this but if nearly all your experiences with men have been negative, then perhaps the problem is you somehow?
I remember Jordan Peterson saying the same thing towards men, where he'd be like "if all the women are rejecting you or if all your experiences with women are bad, then the problem is you."
It really is a lot of work. Usually, the guy has to plan the date, pick her up, or meet her there, hopefully she is somewhat interested in him and not looking for a free meal. I have had a lot of those. Then you get the ones that don't look like their pictures so you can walk right past them and not know who they are. After a while you get to the point of why bother. If you aren't dressed just right, have the right job, things like that you can be rejected on the spot.
I don't know if I would say men are giving up on women, but they are definitely more cynical about them, and more cautious about commitment. There are a lot of reasons for that.
This is the same sort of question again just worded differently. People who refuse to adapt give up.
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Or maybe these men see an issue with the women where they are from.
Is there something that can be said about these men and the women where they are from, whether it be on a local or more national level, that makes these men not want to get more committal with them?
well casuse women aren't offering what men want in their life anymore. or they do but are incredibly entitled, so it's not worth doing what she expects from you to get with her.
Because women have devolved into wanton, whoring, neurotic balls of psychosis. Add to this the danger women pose to men via the ultimate power of the government, and men are realising women are not worth it.
As us7ual. the OP talks about what men should do to please women. Fuck that! What about what women should do to please men? Maybe stop using the legal system and false accusations and child custody and child support as weapons?
