Are men given bad/inadequate dating advice in their youth?

[Zestyassmf1997]

This question stems from a conversation I had yesterday with another user about the idea that nice guys finishing last stems often from a lack of confidence or charisma. Thinking about the sort of dating advice society gives men, based upon my experiences, little attention is paid to things like charisma, and confidence. Though that trend has been changing, it seems. Do you guys think that the dating advice many men are given should change?

Yes, we should update the dating advice given to men.

No, the dating advice given to men currently is just fine.

Other/I don’t know. (Explain in comments.)

[mandyfire98]

Here's the issue most men get their dating advice from other men and then they fail and wonder why. Men get their advice on women from guys on YouTube or tiktok or horrible advice from people like Andrew Tate but keep failing and keep paying these grifters money.

The problem is, men don't know what we want because you're not women. You don't think like us at all. If you want to know just ask women in your life. But the issue is a lot of men don't respect women at all so they disregard any woman's advice. Or they'll say "women will lie to us"

Why would we lie when we want to be treated well? Makes no sense. Why would we not give you the correct advice when y'all keep fucking up over and over. Wouldn't we want y'all to get better so that we ate treated the way we want men to treat us?

My advice, which probably won't be taken at all but if it is, pay attention to whom you're getting advice from and ask yourself the question. How does this person know? What really makes them an expert or ate they just talking shit. Being confidently wrong. Listen yo women more about what women want. Simple logic. If I want to know something about a man I don't ask my girlfriends. I go to a guy friend.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Interesting take. I’m referring less to adults and more to growing boys. Think 14-18 demographic, who are just starting to get into relationships. Maybe mothers should talk to their sons more about relationships. Maybe dads should too. My personal experiences are probably quite different from yours, as are my perspectives. Once you’re a grown adult, you can correct all the mistakes you made because you were given poor dating advice, but I’m referring more to the advice people are given when they start. This stems from a conversation I had with another user in which we agreed that while it’s all fine and dandy to tell men to be respectful, supportive, whatever to women, if you don’t tell men that they should be confident, and that they should have charisma, then you’re sort of setting them up for failure.

[mandyfire98]

The rule still applies. Young men should seek out advice from girls and women. Either their mother or girls they're friends with at school. Not guys in lockerooms who lie to try to impress.

But yes confidence and charisma is super important but it's true confidence and not fake confidence, manufactured. Be comfortable with who you are. Don't hide it. Put it out on front Street 100 percent. That's genuine confidence. If you are extremely insecure then you need to get rid of it. Conquer it or it will haunt every relationship you have and ruin them. But to be fair whenever men ask women what the best quality to have is, we all say confidence. It's the number one thing all women agree on.

[tzdc21]

Well it's not as simple as that. Women can give inaccurate advice about women too. In fact, I'm not saying I'm one of them, but a lot of guys who watch YouTube and Andrew Tate are there because they went to women first for advice and it blew up in their faces, so they go to other sources. Not saying I agree, I'm just telling you what can happen.

[Joshydavid25]

In my personal experience, asking women doesn't really help to know what other women want.. Half the time they don't even know what they like.. I've asked women..

A lot of guys use the term, "you can't ask a fish how to catch a fish".. Which I don't think is true because there are women with genuinely good advice, but only if they actually know how to generalize what attracts women.. Men don't usually ask other men so much what a woman wants, it's more of how to attract women.. Which is why it would make sense to ask another men if he knows how to attract them.. I think listening to men or women can be decent as long as they know about general human beha and the psychology of either sex..

[Billlewis]

@Joshydavid25 Excellent point, Sir. I find it best to try to determine what each individual woman wants, and then go from there.

[Billlewis]

I think men, in general often overlook one of the basic, fundamental aspects of the dating, mating and copulating experience -- that it's not the end of the world if you don't score every time -- it doesn't reflect badly on you when you inevitably are unable to bed every good looking woman whom you choose to pursue. Sex is largely symbolic, and the outcome, as to whether we have intercourse or go home to masturbate has no bearing on our lives, other than from an ego standpoint.

[GuyAnswersGirls123]

I have rather opposite experience in my case with men generally giving superior advice.

A general problem I've encountered, while you make very valid points, is that I think many women conceive of what their prince charming might ideally do, not a normal man they might not even like.

For example, my mother suggested when I liked a girl in school as a boy to give her anonymous presents from a secret admirer, signed with some insignia for each anonymous gift to make it clear they come from the same boy. Thankfully my father said that was such a dumb idea and I didn't follow her advice.

Now for many women, the idea of having some ultra handsome prince charming man give her anonymous gifts and slowly reveal himself is probably some amazing fantasy. But if the man isn't so attractive to her, that can be an ultimate nightmare and stalkerish behavior. Since my mother conceived of me with the mother's bias of being the most handsome and charming boy in the entire world, she didn't see this very real possibility.

Another is that many women don't have the experience of courting women. So common advice girls my age gave to me, like my classmates and sister, was, "Just be patient and you'll find that special someone."

That might actually be okay advice for women since women can just show up to places and get asked out. It's horrible advice for men to just be patient and do nothing because men have to actively court women. That takes initiative, skill, confidence, charm, and ultimately balls. Men understand this so most never give such passive advice to other men.

[mandyfire98]

Most women aren't looking for a perfect Prince charming at all. We know it doesn't exist.

I have experience dating women and I can tell you that if you know what women are actually like you have a way better shot then getting advice from men that don't know what women want. As men you don't fully know. I laugh when guys claim they have women all figured out and they are gurus on women. They don't. Half the shit we see other men giving advice on as far as we are concerned is either batshit crazy and downright troubling advice or we sit back and laugh our asses off on how wrong it is.

The most successful guys I've ever met when it came to dealing with women were the ones who had close relationships with their sisters or they had close friends who were women. I wonder why they are so successful?

I know there are lots of men that need to feel powerful and in charge and that they are omniscient. They have to feel like they know women better than we even know ourselves but it's never true. Ever. Men are never going to know what makes us tick more than we know. It's not happening. So keep that loneliness epidemic going I guess. It really is a shame. You have the answers in front of you but you discard it and say "nah I know better" the ultimate mansplaining. "We know women better than women" 😂😂😂

[GuyAnswersGirls123]

I agree that there's a legitimacy to spending time with women growing up to help us communicate with women better and also understand common quirks found in women, like the tendency to see a wider variety of subjects as interconnected, to better understand the daily types of fear women can have just to walk out on the streets alone, to find the right tone of voice that appeals to women in a variety of situations, to learn to tell the difference when women just want someone to listen and not necessarily a solution, etc. All of this I consider very valuable knowledge to cultivate positive, long-lasting relationships with women.

Yet generally men who are struggling in my experience are actually the ones who often already have this down but haven't paid much attention to what we might call more "masculine" advice to court women. If I use the fishing analogy, it's like they've learned how to get a very decent fishing boat but they're using the wrong bait.

I suspect the most successful guys you're talking about understand women well but also balanced that by listening to men for the courtship advice of how to confidently charm women.

In my experience, all the male incels I've encountered were raised by single mothers, as an example. I suspect they started off listening almost entirely to women's advice being raised only by a woman. It doesn't look like it since you're seeing them after they developed a rebellious and misogynistic streak, but I suspect the majority started off listening mostly to women.

Take a male feminist as another example. Now that's a man who listens to women more than any other man on the planet. Yet how many really appeal to women? The male feminist should be the most appealing to women of them all, since he listens and agrees with them to the point of becoming a feminist. That's a man who listens almost entirely to women and completely disagrees with all red-blooded men.

[mandyfire98]

Actually men that agree that men and women are equal and should be treated as such (that's what feminism truly is) are absolutely more desirable than any man who thinks that men are superior to women. This over the top hyper masculinity isn't attractive at all. In fact it comes off as not real and acting. It's not genuine but manufactured. Most women do not want that. Which is why this rise in disrespect of women and redpill ideology has produced lonely men because they are failing left and right at every corner because they think they know us better than we know who we are. They think that this hypermasculine, men are in charge, women are weaker attitude is causing them to fail at every turn. It apparently isn't working. Apparently these men that supposedly know what it takes to be a "player" or what women are really looking for aren't giving out successful advice at all. The Andrew Tates of the world aren't successful in helping men with women. If that were the case then these hustler university followers would all be rich and have their dream wives. They don't but Andrew Tate keeps getting money every month. Imagine that. If it worked people wouldn't need people like him anymore because they'd be successful. My advice is to be very careful about what advice you receive from other men about women because it's mostly wrong or mysoginistic and harmful to women ultimately. You see it everyday online.

[GuyAnswersGirls123]

I definitely agree that the Andrew Tates and Myron Gaines types aren't guiding men in a good direction. They're all focused on the attraction and not the ethics, and they aren't exactly exemplary when it comes to being responsible fathers and loyal husbands. Myron Gaines even wants to have 4 wives.

Yet I think the reason they're so popular among confused and misguided men is because many of them these days aren't raised by ethical father figures.

The way I subscribe to and encourage is the old school gentleman way which was passed down to me from my father. Underlying it is the view that men are supposed to lead, protect, and provide. The little rituals we do like walking on the side of the curb close to traffic during courtship is to communicate that we're protectors. To pay for the date is to communicate that we're providers. To lead by arranging the date whether than, say, using follower language like, "I'm happy to do whatever you want to do," is to communicate that we're leaders.

And the truest gentleman way, at least with the way my father taught me, does have designate gender roles but it's not seeking obedient, blindly submissive housewives or misogynistic and sexist like, "Women belong in the kitchen." Actually I think even that is a misinterpretation of tradition from men no longer taught to be gentleman by their fathers, because competent leaders listen carefully to their followers. A man cannot lead and serve his wife well if he doesn't listen to her desires and concerns just as a capable leader in a workplace cannot lead their followers well if they don't listen.

So I really think the reason so many men are confused and looking to players and fuckbois and self-proclaimed "alpha males" for advice is not because they aren't receiving advice from women (that's everywhere), but more because they're not receiving advice from competent father figures (all the most confused men I've ever encountered lacked fathers in their homes).

[GuyAnswersGirls123]

The gentleman way I was taught isn't even the slightest bit incompatible with women pursuing higher education and careers of their own, provided the latter does not interfere with their ability to be capable mothers. My wife is a lead editor and book publisher, for example.

I think when it comes to traditions, there's the "working class" view vs. the "educated class" view. My father taught me the educated class view and that's not at all allergic to educated, respected women. It's the working class view that I think favors uneducated women who dream of nothing but becoming obedient housewives. Yet I suspect the gentleman way is the educated way; I doubt working class men of the past who expected blindly obedient housewives had the class of a gentleman, since demanding blind obedience is already contradictory to the gentleman code of conduct.

The only thing the gentleman code of conduct designates is that I am the one ultimately responsible for leading, protecting, and providing for my wife. And leading doesn't mean being tyrannical or even being the one coming up with the ideas. Very often when I discuss an important decision that affects both of us, I go with her idea since she often has better ideas. The difference is that I take responsibility for even her ideas in exchange for her (voluntarily) trusting me to make the final decision. If the metaphorical shit hits the fan, I get in front of the fan and protect her from the flying shit even if it was her idea that got us there. That's the burden I carry to be the head of the household. But it's hardly oppressive.

[Manab]

Being a player or following Andrew Tate's style actually attracts a lot of women. I have never seen guys who are players out of women. Even if everyone around them knows and can deduce that, they still can get a new girl very easily. Now you can argue that that will not work with a lot of women. Yes true but that does work for a significant number and that's more than enough. Men don't prefer to take advice from women as in practice women tend to do the opposite and there's a huge difference in what they say and do. A lot of women will ask for equality but will dump a guy if they ask to split bills, they say that they don't date for money or players but you will eventually find them dating one. This confuses most men and they prefer sticking with the tactics that men who are successful with women follow.

[mandyfire98]

You think hustler university subscribers are getting women? 😂😂😂😂😂

[mandyfire98]

Not a chance in hell lolol

[Manab]

Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned Tate, I don't like the guy already. I only mentioned that due to your first comment mentioning him. In general, guys who are players do get a lot of women. I do know of several guys who are such and yes women throw themselves on them all the time. Some had multiple girlfriends at the same time, and some even complained in friend groups about having too much attention from women. Those do happen in reality.

[mandyfire98]

Some guys can be players but usually those guys are extremely charismatic. Most people that take advice from those "players" don't have the same charisma at all so it won't work. Those guys are born salesmen and can talk themselves into anything. Most other guys aren't and can't so that advice ultimately is wasted. If not then anybody that took advice from them would be drowning in women but it doesn't work that way.

[Manab]

Sometimes that works, sometimes that doesn't, and living like a player is also a lifestyle. Nowadays a lot of players are teaching other men, and some are acting as dating couches. So it's kinda women's responsibility too if players are getting so many women. Plus compared to women most men tend to be single or have a hard time getting dates and players eat up a significant amount of women off the market. You don't always have to be good-looking or smooth talker, being rich, and having good looks can work greatly. Female hypergamy is actually a very established fact. How many women actually date a guy without much game or is not rich or very good-looking but perhaps kinda shy/nerdy/less experienced, good/kind? Especially when they are young and can have more options. Even if there are women who will, their numbers are way less than the required.
Everyone searches for what's best for them at the current time.

[mandyfire98]

Oh boy, here comes the blackpill. 🤢 And reasoning is out the window. This is where I make my exit. Not entertaining incel ideology.

[Anonymous]

Here's another annoying tendency people have when discussing dating: the failure to recognize that dating is at its core a competitive enterprise. That is to say, there's a pool of potential partners (so, women for men) and a whole bunch of competition for those potential partners (so, other men). It should therefore be VERY obvious that there is no "universal dating advice" that would somehow magically improve the outcomes for "all men" as a group or for "all women" as a group. There CAN'T be because they're competing for partners. At best, you can get men as a group to improve and this will be better for women as they'll have better mates in the pool. Similarly if women as a group improve that would be better for the men in the pool.

Okay, so what about dating advice? There's all KINDS of dating advice out there. Each individual needs to sort out what he personally is trying to achieve and then select the appropriate advice given his situation and goals. Therefore there CANNOT be any advice that's going to be generally applicable to all guys. But there ARE a few principles that will tend to benefit the guys who adopt them, precisely because they work in the real world AND because many or most men do NOT adopt them.

Personally the biggest category of bad advice I've come across (reinforced both by individuals AND in popular culture) is that a guy can successfully attract desirable women by displaying his "good boyfriend qualities" such as being attentive, a good listener, caring, etc., etc. This advice isn't COMPLETELY wrong, it's just misplaced in my view. Why? Because before ANY of your "good boyfriend qualities" matter for a girl you must FIRST be DESIRABLE to that girl. ONLY then will those qualities matter to her. So what makes you desirable in the first instance? Well, a number of things, but it's worth focusing on what you can control or improve. Among those are:

Being in the best physical shape possible. Work out, eat right and be the best athlete you can be.

Developing a steady mind and calm demeanor. No one wants a guy who gets thrown at the first sign of trouble, who flies off the handle or who can't control himself. You need to develop emotional stability and discipline.

Build skills and competence in the world that enable you to add value to society generally. This ensures you'll have financial resources which are VERY useful in a modern society. It's also a demonstration of the ability to solve problems.

Build an AWESOME social scene that's desirable for others to be a part of. If you have a GREAT group of friends and you lead a fun life, girls will want to be a part of that.

Have some interests, hobbies, etc. These are not just good for you, but also make you more interesting as a person. Read a book, get out in the world and travel, live a life that generates great stories to share. Do this and you'll be DESIRABLE to a girl.

THEN you can display your good boyfriend qualities. But until you've made yourself interesting and desirable, no one will give a shit.

The bad news is, this all takes hard work. The good news is, it takes hard work so VERY few men successfully do all (or even most) of these things, meaning that if you DO you'll be at a HUGE competitive edge on the dating market. The other good news is that developing these areas will help you in other avenues of life (like your career) and will make life more fun, interesting and rewarding even BEFORE you end up with the dating life you want.

[brightpapaya]

This is fantastic advice!

[Opinion Owner]

@brightpapaya Thanks! Glad you found it interesting!

[Anonymous]

I definitely wasn’t.

I was raised with old school chivalry. The concept in itself isn’t a bad thing at all. There is a (shrinking) minority of women who still respect that. I actually wish that would be mainstream nowadays but it isn’t.

I was already naturally a thoughtful, kind and considerate young man with women. And yet there was this asinine impetus that my parents had to instill guilt pushed on me when dealing with women. 9 out 10 times if I had a problem with a woman I was told:

• I most likely did something wrong.
• If she said something nasty it’s “okay” because she is a woman and thats how women are. Just take it.
• If she rejects you then who cares about your feelings. There are more “fish in the sea” as my entitled born beautiful mother would tell me. Who cares.

I was warned about women about never doing something against a woman’s consent. Although I inherently knew that already that in itself is imperative for boys to know. But I was never told .

To my parents credit they grew up in a different generation back when most women respected kind and chivalrous men. Many modern women look to exploit that for their own ends.

I remember trying to explain the “friendzone” concept to my dad a few years ago and he was utterly bewildered women would do that to guys. The bright that a woman would exploit a nice guy like that was literally a foreign concept to him.

Also for the longest time he just looked at feminism as an annoyance and though it was best to just ignore them. He thought that was isolated to college campuses until the Brett Kavanaugh hearings happened. Then it finally sank in about what our society had come to.

[Opinion Owner]

I was never told about what kind of RESPECT I should expect from women after I put in the initial effort.

[AmyHew1tt]

Yep. There's a young guy I know, only seventeen now, whose dad is continually telling him to be a player/fuckboy as if that isn't one of the biggest turn-offs to any woman or girl who's healthy enough to be considered for a good, fulfilling relationship.

I see so many guys blaming bad dating advice on single moms, but I think it's subjectable to the family in question. My little brother was raised mostly by my mom and me, and I can guarantee he'll have the healthiest relationship out of all his friends. He's patient, emotionally intelligent, strong, and willing to listen to all the 'inside tips' I have as a girl. He also understands how our minds work since we've been close since childhood, and doesn't let ego get in the way of mulling over advice.

[AnusNdaPainus]

Young men don’t need relationship advice because most men age 15 to 25 just want sex

[Manab]

Being a player actually attracts a lot of women. I have never seen guys who are players out of women. Even if everyone around them knows and can deduce that, they still can get a new girl very easily. Now you can argue that that will not work with a lot of women. Yes true but that does work for a significant number and that's more than enough. Men don't prefer to take advice from women as in practice women tend to do the opposite and there's a huge difference in what they say and do. A lot of women will ask for equality but will dump a guy if they ask to split bills, they say that they don't date for money or players but you will eventually find them dating one. This confuses most men and they prefer sticking with the tactics that men who are successful with women follow. A lot of single moms are women who dated players and got pregnant by them. Then the guys left them, and they are teaching their sons to be not like players but forgetting the fact that she in her younger years actually preferred the players.

[AmyHew1tt]

@Manab That's what I'm saying. No healthy woman with whom you should be in a relationship will want a player. It's just turning the circle around, creating more problems.

[OlderAndWiser]

HOW would you go about the process of "updating the dating advice given to men?" Will everyone be required to attend a seminar or watch a YT video?

[Zestyassmf1997]

No. It would just be more of a thing going forward.

[OlderAndWiser]

Okay. How do you make it "more of a thing?"

[Zestyassmf1997]

Literally just start passing the knowledge down. You know how everyone gets advice from somewhere? Those people should just update the advice they give. Dad, guy friends, siblings, etc.

[OlderAndWiser]

Okay, but why would people change the advice they give? If people thought they were giving bad advice, they would have already changed it. This is not an organized process where you can simply send a memo to the participants and they understand the rules have changed.

I don't see any way that you can make this happen. Just my opinion.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Right. I’m aware. That’s why the question just deals with, “should we.”

[Billlewis]

Everything is fine as it is, in my opinion. A certain percentage of guys are fortunate enough to enjoy tremendously pleasurable physical intimacy with beautiful women fairly regularly, while an even larger percentage of males are destined for a long, frustrating lifetime of virtual -- if not absolute -- celibacy, repeated teasing, taunting and unending ridicule by the same gorgeous women who are providing such intensely satisfying intercourse for the privileged 20% who reside at the top of the sexual food chain. Regardless of what anyone does, studs get pleased, wimps get teased, incels' blood boils and women get spoiled ❤️

[Zestyassmf1997]

That doesn’t sound like a very good arrangement. Especially when many men would probably be happier off if they could succeed at relationships.

[Billlewis]

But that's just it -- men *can* have long term fulfilling relationships with women -- they just can't realistically expect to have sex with the most attractive women that their more desirable alpha male counterparts are bedding with such infuriating ease. As many women have pointed out, the whole conflagration is caused primarily by starry eyed simps believing they can seduce practically any woman they want. All they need to do is lower their expectations a little, and they'll be fine. It is fun getting teased constantly, though:)

[Zestyassmf1997]

I guess that’s a fair point. And it makes sense. But my post isn’t exactly about expectations. It’s more about the fact that it seems like many men as they’re maturing aren’t properly equipped for the dating market. The result, I think, is that you probably have people who fail at relationships who, under slightly different circumstances would succeed just fine.

[Billlewis]

Yes, Sir, and that's a point well taken. Now that I've had a few minutes to think about it, I'd like to amend my original comment and state that I think that's an excellent idea -- after all, if we attend classes to prepare us for the business world, fine dining and social occasions and everything else from auto mechanics to real estate, why shouldn't young men prepare themselves for the hotly contested pursuit of the beautiful women for whom many is but a distant fantasy?

[Zestyassmf1997]

And, one last thing I’d urge you to consider, is that it’s not really our place to decide people’s outcomes for them. Don’t you think people should be equipped to succeed and then allowed to make their own decisions?

[Billlewis]

No one is deciding any outcomes for anyone -- that's a mission best left to our so called 'leaders' and unelected bureaucrats. This is nothing more than the primeval process of natural selection, which Mother Nature oversees.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Well, there’s something to be said for that. Don’t get me started on those clowns. That’s a whole other can of worms.

[AnusNdaPainus]

So what you’re talking about marrying a pie faced snaggled tooth like it’s the 18 goddamn 00s? Fuck that

[TheSpaceGnome]

Yes, but not for the reasons you think.

The advice should be focused on making sure they be themselves, wait to have sex until they are at least enganged, hang out instead of going on dates, and only get into relationships or do anything physical with someone who they love and are 100% sure loves them back, and that shares the same hobbies, interests, views, lifestyle, etc.

The 1990s had the best dating advice in my opinion, after mid 2000s more and more people started being stupid.

Things like charisma and confidence don't matter.

[Zestyassmf1997]

I’m not sure charisma and confidence don’t matter.

[TheSpaceGnome]

They don't matter because they are subjective.

One person may think you are charismatic, while another thinks you're obnoxious, and that all falls under whether or not they find you relatable, so its relatability that matters, not charisma, so being yourself is what matters because if you put up an act you won't find a match.

Confidence just doesn't matter at all, because no one is confident about everything in life, and a person who doesn't find you attractive just because you are nervous, unsure, scared, or whatever about something, instead of being supportive, is not a person you want to marry.

[mathnerd]

I agree completely with mandyfire's answer.

I think guys usually take dating advice from professional sites for men, and they'll tell you that you need to become some "alpha male" in order to be attractive. I've noticed (but I might be wrong) that women tend to be more variable when it comes to dating preferences. There is definitely not a one-size-fits-all approach in the dating market, at least not with women, and many male dating coaches tend to overlook that.

I myself prefer my partner to be loyal, honest, considerate, kind, and capable of being sensitive than to be an overly macho guy who never smiles. But my advice for struggling men is this: ask women about dating. No, we don't want to be treated badly. I've heard guys say that "girls don't know what they want" but then they do? If men call you a "simp" for being polite to women, but women tell you they like it, who should you listen to?

Good luck!

[purplepoppy]

Times change. Getting dating advice from old men is like getting fashion tips from your granddad.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Very true.

[love_conquers_lust]

Yes, as in I was given zero because I was precious enough that my parents and friends thought I would be fine.

I think it's a bad assumption to assume people are good at dating based on how they look. I'd argue those people are assholes in repeatedly making that bad assumption if it causes harm to the individual.

[love_conquers_lust]

*precocious, not precious

[Anonymous]

I've said before on here I don't think guys problem today is dating advice. I don't feel enough guys today understand their role as men. Too many guys are in an every changing social structure of women that really don't want them, only want the men's tribute. Too many men base their entire value off the number of women that want them. This has NEVER been the role of a man. It's needy and sad.

Be a man of consequence. And only give your attention to women who've EARNED that right.

If more guys would do this it would largely fix the problem on the guys end. And hopefully that'll eventually spill over to fixing the woman's end. I say this because it's fully up to them what they want. And some women you simply can't help. Some women will choose the trap door over and over again even if you gave them a 100 chances. It's just who they are.

[LazerBean]

Many men are, but that's simply because men have become so inadequate at being fathers.

[Zestyassmf1997]

That’s good food for thought.

[Djaay]

Men now days have chosen a pleasure over pleasing bc of how women have chosen government as protecy and provide instead of baby daddy protecting and providing.

[LazerBean]

Thanks, Zesty.

@Djaay actually it always has been and still is only degenerates which poor upbringing and/or genetics that choose pleasure over responsibility. And that goes for both males and females. Hence why we have to many "baby daddies" and "baby mommas" (aka hoes/failures) instead of husbands and wives.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Lol, I just use the phrase “baby dada/mama” without any of that baggage. But I guess that’s just how I talk.

[Djaay]

Womens modern movement away from menus ingredients a different safe haven outside of all precedence is what gave birth to such secular societal changes we see with men and women etc...

[Djaay]

Using different safe havens*

[LazerBean]

That's definitely faster to type lol

[LazerBean]

@Djaay promiscuity is what gave birth to today's degeneracy. But it takes two to be promiscuous, which is why so many men hate to admit that.

[Djaay]

I disagree. How do men bond with a woman to your knowledge ? And why have women selfishly ignored it?

[LazerBean]

Last I checked men and women bond by spending quality time together. Of course ability to bond and make intelligent partner choices decreases every time one sleeps around, which is why higher body count tends to bring about higher fail rates. Plus garbage people only get with other garbage people. How many people have you slept with and how high is your body count?

[LazerBean]

Also nobody is forcing men to choose women who ignore them, so why are men choosing women who ignore them?

[Djaay]

You've missed the point !

[LazerBean]

What is your point, that everything is women's fault and men are just poor victims? That's the only thing I've gotten from you so far.

[Djaay]

Oh, it's four now. But as I supposed u really don't know how males actually bond..

[LazerBean]

Why don't you enlighten me then, since you disagree with my answer

[Djaay]

But before I do that , how do women bond with men?

[LazerBean]

I'll copy and paste since you didn't read.

"By spending quality time together"

[LazerBean]

Now your turn

[LazerBean]

So you haven't answered my question about how many times you've slutted yourself out.

[Djaay]

Learn to read , it's there (four) 4 👈 . The first time + we have intimacy with a woman we declare or not wether or not she's worth bonding with. If not , then off to the next. Now how do women bond with a male?

[Djaay]

Quality time isn't the answer

[Zestyassmf1997]

Might not be the answer you wanna hear. But it is an answer. Hell, I’d have actually given that same answer. Anyway, answer her question.

[LazerBean]

And that's exactly the confirmation I was expecting out of you. That way of "bonding" is only true for sluts 🤷🏽‍♀️ you being a slut is why you have such poor life outcomes and are a professional victim who blames women for the failure of your kind.

[LazerBean]

And I'm not answering any more questions u told you fess up to exactly how much of a slut you are like I asked.

[LazerBean]

And thanks for the support Zesty lol

[Djaay]

Between the two of , this here is exactly the problem with men and women shrugging for relations with others. This isn't about my successfull life , this is about those who fit the questions and others at large. And wisdom isn't given easily to those who act a fool. By

[LazerBean]

So you're not going to answer and you're going to continue being a professional victim. Yeah, that's about all I expected from your kind.

[LazerBean]

Too bad your parents didn't raise you right, because then you would be like my husband and not be failing at relationships.

[Djaay]

I'm a husband and father of 12 children and 23 grandchildren. I've never in my adult life been single.

[Djaay]

By the way , my second and current wife is only one year older than you of 8 years now.

[LazerBean]

And yet what you call wisdom is what my parents call being a whore. So silly. And won't even answer a simple question, either. I would ask how old you were when you got married, but I just expect you to keep avoiding incriminating answers like you have been this entire time.

[LazerBean]

Second wife? Damn talk about a failure.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Well assuming he’s being truthful, these women keep getting with him. Like you said, it takes two to tango.

[LazerBean]

Oh I'm sure he's being truthful, that's why he's so triggered by women. I would probably feel the same way about the opposite gender if the only men who choose to be with me are ones that lead to failured relationships.

[Djaay]

My current wife I found on gag...( mimij98 )

[LazerBean]

Based on your relationship history, hope you got a prenup lmao

And by the way, you trying flex by saying you've never been single your entire adult life? Husband and I can say that too. So can his parents. So can my mom, though my dad's a bit older so he can't. And unlike you, all six of us can say that we've only been with one person that entire time.

[Djaay]

My first wife of our first 10 children passed through tragedy.

[LazerBean]

Also I don't know who that is, but I'm sure it's to be some sort of situation where you married some starving woman, probably from a third world country, in exchange for a green card or money. That's pretty much the only time younger women will marry an old, society reject who isn't rich.

[LazerBean]

My condolences. But also not relevant. How many people have you slept with?

[Djaay]

Omg... look through my follows on my profile and find her , then look at her opinions...

[Djaay]

4... only four 4

[LazerBean]

4? Yikes that's high. Also I did just look through your profile and find her, looks like I hit the nail right on the head. Got her green card and you provide a triple digit salary, despite her mom being against her marrying you. So got a prenup?

[Djaay]

Well that was then. Lmao.. we are both American.

[LazerBean]

Y'all dated for a month then got married? Lol penis really took control there. Prenup or no?

[Djaay]

No... one year later.

[LazerBean]

Oh right my bad, after a month you flew her in so that she could live with you. I keep forgetting that fornicators often live together outside of marriage. Also is that a no to the prenup or was that a no to the one month?

[Djaay]

Prenuptial for what? Don't need one.

[LazerBean]

That's surprising if that's true, usually men who attract women with their money realize the need for a prenup.

[Djaay]

By the way...3 of my daughters are older than you.

[Djaay]

Maybe that's not our criteria , ever thought of that

[Djaay]

Why don't you tell me about the shark u caught...

[LazerBean]

Oh yeah? Cool. And how many of those three daughters have illegitimate children?

And TBH no, it has not at all occurred to me that she married you for any reason other than your money and it still seems very unlikely. So far it seems like it's the only thing that gives you a point on the marriage material scoreboard.

[LazerBean]

And why are you interested in sharks all of a sudden?

[Djaay]

I have 5 girls from my first , one girl and one boy from my current and she's now 9 weeks pregnate with another child

[Djaay]

All my other daughters are all married and have multiple children.

[LazerBean]

Not what I asked. I asked then got pregnant outside of marriage

[LazerBean]

How many*

[Djaay]

Actually none of us did. We are all born again followers of Christ... why u ask

[LazerBean]

You're a born again follower of Christ but you're a fornicator? Thats embarrassing. I'm saying that, it's very bad advertising for the church. Which is why I asked, since fornicators like y'all often have illegitimate children.

[Djaay]

Why u assume the stereotypes and chastise others for what u know not of

[Djaay]

Makes me wonder about ur own marriage..

[LazerBean]

I'm not, I'm chastising you for what you have openly admitted (being a fornicator). You realize the Bible says that Christians shouldn't associate with your kind (people who claim to be Christians but are sexually immoral) , right? And you don't have to wonder about my marriage, I'm not the one who is blaming people of my spouse's gender for all of the societies problems. That's you, remember? Nice try though, I can't blame you for feeling triggered.

[Djaay]

If u knew how to comprehend correctly , u would have noticed that I wasn't ever speaking of myself in my comments , but those other men out there struggling with modern secular women.

[LazerBean]

Anyway this is dragged on Long enough. Back to topic. I get that you feel triggered because you are part of the cause of societies degeneracy problem, you being a promiscuous person and all. But you're just going to have to deal with it. Hopefully your kids didn't inherit your promiscuous genes and they will do better.

[Djaay]

Although ur certainly busy gender bending on ur own comments

[LazerBean]

You have to comprehend correctly you would know that I was referring to those men just as much as I was referring to you. You might have some biden and syndrome kicking in. Anyway have a good day

[pathfinder69420]

I would say that nearly all dating advice is bad and destructive to society. Anyone who encourages people to compromise who they are to lure someone is being set up for failure. They also quite often try to normalize manipulation in dating and relationships - also setting people up for failure. Be yourself, maintain realistic standards, know your worth, and don't try so hard.

[Joshydavid25]

I don't think it's so much dating advice, but more of people not teaching men how to genuinely be men.. We've been indoctrinated too much with being the sweet guy that's always there for the girl, and always available.. Too much of putting women in a pedestal of sorts.. Instead of seeing them as an equal in which you wanna build a partnership. It's made guys awkward and many seeming desperate for whatever attention they get from women..

[Jamie05rhs]

I was never ever taught to have charisma or confidence. I was only taught consent and boundaries.
I was taught what NOT to do. Not what TO do.

[blueonblack22]

Same here.

[blueonblack22]

Teaching boys consent is very important. Parents do it out of concern and paranoia of their son being accused of something. I can understand that.

But why do so many parents particularly from the older generations expect young boys to just “get it”. They train their daughters about what they should expect vs avoid. But why do they think everything will magically fall in place for boys?

[Jamie05rhs]

@blueonblack22 I have no clue, man. It's crazy.

[LiamJHayden]

I think most people get bad advice in a lot of areas during their youth.

[Zestyassmf1997]

What are some other areas? Any bad advice you personally recall?

[SolitarySolace]

No. Men are giving advice that worked for them in their time and women back then weren't feminist liberal assholes who only give a shit about themselves

[Djaay]

Little boys entering into manhood should only listen to the creator above and they're own hearts , not advice from others who don't share the same heart as yourself..

[Nikki1989]

The worst advice men receive is almost always from other men.

[coachTanthony]

Sure change to what?

[Zestyassmf1997]

Just include the fact that confidence and charisma are really important.

[coachTanthony]

You think confidence and charisma has been removed in current advice to young people? What would that even be replaced with?

[coachTanthony]

If that is the case

[Zestyassmf1997]

Not removed. Like it was never really there. That’s why, I think, so many guys think that just being nice will enable them to find someone. Cause they haven’t been told that charisma and confidence are very important.

[coachTanthony]

I feel like every dating coach out there emphasizes charisma and confidence and it gets a bad wrap and manipulative. I agree 100% those 2 are super important.

[exitseven]

I never got any advice. I figured it out on my own.

[grega239]

I was told to be nice. That was the only advice i got.

Turns out its bullshit

[AngryCarl]

Dating advice never got anyone laid. And you can't teach charisma.