This question stems from a conversation I had yesterday with another user about the idea that nice guys finishing last stems often from a lack of confidence or charisma. Thinking about the sort of dating advice society gives men, based upon my experiences, little attention is paid to things like charisma, and confidence. Though that trend has been changing, it seems. Do you guys think that the dating advice many men are given should change?
Here's the issue most men get their dating advice from other men and then they fail and wonder why. Men get their advice on women from guys on YouTube or tiktok or horrible advice from people like Andrew Tate but keep failing and keep paying these grifters money.
The problem is, men don't know what we want because you're not women. You don't think like us at all. If you want to know just ask women in your life. But the issue is a lot of men don't respect women at all so they disregard any woman's advice. Or they'll say "women will lie to us"
Why would we lie when we want to be treated well? Makes no sense. Why would we not give you the correct advice when y'all keep fucking up over and over. Wouldn't we want y'all to get better so that we ate treated the way we want men to treat us?
My advice, which probably won't be taken at all but if it is, pay attention to whom you're getting advice from and ask yourself the question. How does this person know? What really makes them an expert or ate they just talking shit. Being confidently wrong. Listen yo women more about what women want. Simple logic. If I want to know something about a man I don't ask my girlfriends. I go to a guy friend.
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Here's another annoying tendency people have when discussing dating: the failure to recognize that dating is at its core a competitive enterprise. That is to say, there's a pool of potential partners (so, women for men) and a whole bunch of competition for those potential partners (so, other men). It should therefore be VERY obvious that there is no "universal dating advice" that would somehow magically improve the outcomes for "all men" as a group or for "all women" as a group. There CAN'T be because they're competing for partners. At best, you can get men as a group to improve and this will be better for women as they'll have better mates in the pool. Similarly if women as a group improve that would be better for the men in the pool.
Okay, so what about dating advice? There's all KINDS of dating advice out there. Each individual needs to sort out what he personally is trying to achieve and then select the appropriate advice given his situation and goals. Therefore there CANNOT be any advice that's going to be generally applicable to all guys. But there ARE a few principles that will tend to benefit the guys who adopt them, precisely because they work in the real world AND because many or most men do NOT adopt them.
Personally the biggest category of bad advice I've come across (reinforced both by individuals AND in popular culture) is that a guy can successfully attract desirable women by displaying his "good boyfriend qualities" such as being attentive, a good listener, caring, etc., etc. This advice isn't COMPLETELY wrong, it's just misplaced in my view. Why? Because before ANY of your "good boyfriend qualities" matter for a girl you must FIRST be DESIRABLE to that girl. ONLY then will those qualities matter to her. So what makes you desirable in the first instance? Well, a number of things, but it's worth focusing on what you can control or improve. Among those are:
Being in the best physical shape possible. Work out, eat right and be the best athlete you can be.
Developing a steady mind and calm demeanor. No one wants a guy who gets thrown at the first sign of trouble, who flies off the handle or who can't control himself. You need to develop emotional stability and discipline.
Build skills and competence in the world that enable you to add value to society generally. This ensures you'll have financial resources which are VERY useful in a modern society. It's also a demonstration of the ability to solve problems.
Build an AWESOME social scene that's desirable for others to be a part of. If you have a GREAT group of friends and you lead a fun life, girls will want to be a part of that.
Have some interests, hobbies, etc. These are not just good for you, but also make you more interesting as a person. Read a book, get out in the world and travel, live a life that generates great stories to share. Do this and you'll be DESIRABLE to a girl.
THEN you can display your good boyfriend qualities. But until you've made yourself interesting and desirable, no one will give a shit.
The bad news is, this all takes hard work. The good news is, it takes hard work so VERY few men successfully do all (or even most) of these things, meaning that if you DO you'll be at a HUGE competitive edge on the dating market. The other good news is that developing these areas will help you in other avenues of life (like your career) and will make life more fun, interesting and rewarding even BEFORE you end up with the dating life you want.
I definitely wasn’t.
I was raised with old school chivalry. The concept in itself isn’t a bad thing at all. There is a (shrinking) minority of women who still respect that. I actually wish that would be mainstream nowadays but it isn’t.
I was already naturally a thoughtful, kind and considerate young man with women. And yet there was this asinine impetus that my parents had to instill guilt pushed on me when dealing with women. 9 out 10 times if I had a problem with a woman I was told:
- I most likely did something wrong.
- If she said something nasty it’s “okay” because she is a woman and thats how women are. Just take it.
- If she rejects you then who cares about your feelings. There are more “fish in the sea” as my entitled born beautiful mother would tell me. Who cares.
I was warned about women about never doing something against a woman’s consent. Although I inherently knew that already that in itself is imperative for boys to know. But I was never told .
To my parents credit they grew up in a different generation back when most women respected kind and chivalrous men. Many modern women look to exploit that for their own ends.
I remember trying to explain the “friendzone” concept to my dad a few years ago and he was utterly bewildered women would do that to guys. The bright that a woman would exploit a nice guy like that was literally a foreign concept to him.
Also for the longest time he just looked at feminism as an annoyance and though it was best to just ignore them. He thought that was isolated to college campuses until the Brett Kavanaugh hearings happened. Then it finally sank in about what our society had come to.
Yep. There's a young guy I know, only seventeen now, whose dad is continually telling him to be a player/fuckboy as if that isn't one of the biggest turn-offs to any woman or girl who's healthy enough to be considered for a good, fulfilling relationship.
I see so many guys blaming bad dating advice on single moms, but I think it's subjectable to the family in question. My little brother was raised mostly by my mom and me, and I can guarantee he'll have the healthiest relationship out of all his friends. He's patient, emotionally intelligent, strong, and willing to listen to all the 'inside tips' I have as a girl. He also understands how our minds work since we've been close since childhood, and doesn't let ego get in the way of mulling over advice.
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HOW would you go about the process of "updating the dating advice given to men?" Will everyone be required to attend a seminar or watch a YT video?
Everything is fine as it is, in my opinion. A certain percentage of guys are fortunate enough to enjoy tremendously pleasurable physical intimacy with beautiful women fairly regularly, while an even larger percentage of males are destined for a long, frustrating lifetime of virtual -- if not absolute -- celibacy, repeated teasing, taunting and unending ridicule by the same gorgeous women who are providing such intensely satisfying intercourse for the privileged 20% who reside at the top of the sexual food chain. Regardless of what anyone does, studs get pleased, wimps get teased, incels' blood boils and women get spoiled ❤️
Yes, but not for the reasons you think.
The advice should be focused on making sure they be themselves, wait to have sex until they are at least enganged, hang out instead of going on dates, and only get into relationships or do anything physical with someone who they love and are 100% sure loves them back, and that shares the same hobbies, interests, views, lifestyle, etc.
The 1990s had the best dating advice in my opinion, after mid 2000s more and more people started being stupid.
Things like charisma and confidence don't matter.I agree completely with mandyfire's answer.
I think guys usually take dating advice from professional sites for men, and they'll tell you that you need to become some "alpha male" in order to be attractive. I've noticed (but I might be wrong) that women tend to be more variable when it comes to dating preferences. There is definitely not a one-size-fits-all approach in the dating market, at least not with women, and many male dating coaches tend to overlook that.
I myself prefer my partner to be loyal, honest, considerate, kind, and capable of being sensitive than to be an overly macho guy who never smiles. But my advice for struggling men is this: ask women about dating. No, we don't want to be treated badly. I've heard guys say that "girls don't know what they want" but then they do? If men call you a "simp" for being polite to women, but women tell you they like it, who should you listen to?
Good luck!
Times change. Getting dating advice from old men is like getting fashion tips from your granddad.
Yes, as in I was given zero because I was precious enough that my parents and friends thought I would be fine.
I think it's a bad assumption to assume people are good at dating based on how they look. I'd argue those people are assholes in repeatedly making that bad assumption if it causes harm to the individual.
I've said before on here I don't think guys problem today is dating advice. I don't feel enough guys today understand their role as men. Too many guys are in an every changing social structure of women that really don't want them, only want the men's tribute. Too many men base their entire value off the number of women that want them. This has NEVER been the role of a man. It's needy and sad.
Be a man of consequence. And only give your attention to women who've EARNED that right.
If more guys would do this it would largely fix the problem on the guys end. And hopefully that'll eventually spill over to fixing the woman's end. I say this because it's fully up to them what they want. And some women you simply can't help. Some women will choose the trap door over and over again even if you gave them a 100 chances. It's just who they are.
Many men are, but that's simply because men have become so inadequate at being fathers.
I would say that nearly all dating advice is bad and destructive to society. Anyone who encourages people to compromise who they are to lure someone is being set up for failure. They also quite often try to normalize manipulation in dating and relationships - also setting people up for failure. Be yourself, maintain realistic standards, know your worth, and don't try so hard.
I don't think it's so much dating advice, but more of people not teaching men how to genuinely be men.. We've been indoctrinated too much with being the sweet guy that's always there for the girl, and always available.. Too much of putting women in a pedestal of sorts.. Instead of seeing them as an equal in which you wanna build a partnership. It's made guys awkward and many seeming desperate for whatever attention they get from women..
I was never ever taught to have charisma or confidence. I was only taught consent and boundaries.
I was taught what NOT to do. Not what TO do.I think most people get bad advice in a lot of areas during their youth.
No. Men are giving advice that worked for them in their time and women back then weren't feminist liberal assholes who only give a shit about themselves
Little boys entering into manhood should only listen to the creator above and they're own hearts , not advice from others who don't share the same heart as yourself..
Sure change to what?
I never got any advice. I figured it out on my own.
The worst advice men receive is almost always from other men.
I was told to be nice. That was the only advice i got.
Turns out its bullshit
Dating advice never got anyone laid. And you can't teach charisma.
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