In your opinion: If someone commits heinous acts, does that automatically discredit their accomplishments?

[beebella]

I was watching Dark Side of the Ring and I got to Chris Benoit's episodes... For those who don't know, Chris Benoit was a wrestler for the WWE and he would go on to be one of the best wrestlers in the business.

In 2007, he ended up killing his wife, young son, and then himself. And after that happened, the WWE basically erased him from their history and nobody really talks about him anymore. Sometime after this happened, they did a study on his brain and it turned out that he had a severe case of CTE (brain damage) and people who were close to him say that he wasn't himself for months before he decided to do what he did.

I think it's safe to say that his brain damage played a huge part in this whole thing. And even still, people refuse to talk about him in a positive light because of the acts that he committed.

Yes, it does

No, it doesn't

It depends on things

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

The short answer: it depends on the acts and its effects.


The long answer: in his case, yes. It does not do well for the WWE to honor a murderer. You can make the argument that his brain damage played a role in it but brain damage does not necessarily a murderer make. More often, it makes an invalid. What happened was tragic but you cannot blame it solely on brain damage no one knew he had until his corpse was examined. It’s the same as saying all people who have sociopathy or psychopathy are born murderers. That is not at all the case and in the specific case of this wrestler, WWE is a business first and foremost with an image to protect and honoring a murderer and using him as a means to advocate for mental health would be a much poorer PR move than simply erasing him with private condolences to his living family. You may not agree with it but we have no proof his brain damage made him kill his family and then himself and as much as many undoubtedly would want to claim so, his act could have been part of a psychosis or just a sick impulse, or maybe it was even planned well in advance. We can’t know what he was thinking, and ultimately his actions do make him a murderer before they make him a wrestler,

[loveslongnails]

Hmm... are you an expert on human brain function? Brain damage more often makes an invalid - show me receipts on that one. Not only is there a lot of conjecture here on your part but the scientific community is not on your side. Even a cursory search for information shows that scientists who study brain damage definitely believe it can cause sociopathic and abnormal, violent or destructive behaviors.

No one is disputing that his behavior resulted in a horrendous murder-suicide. No one is disputing that it was an image nightmare for the WWE/WWF, but what does THAT have to do with his previous accomplishments? You're not honoring the man OR glorifying his actions by leaving his stats in place. He had a 22 year career, and he accomplished whatever he accomplished, and that can't be changed. Baseball's Hall of Fame is littered with racists, liars, drunks, cheaters and wife beaters, albeit no murderers, but they are in because of their accomplishments. Oddly, they haven't let a guy who bet on his own team in yet, who has more hits than anyone in history, but that's another story.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

The WWE made the best PR move they could at the time. Honoring who he was, even the good parts, would have been interpreted as endorsing the fighting that caused the brain damage to begin with. The fights may be choreographed but that doesn’t mean damage isn’t sustained. They know they’re partially responsible for his brain damage and the potential blame by funding his career

[loveslongnails]

" They know they’re partially responsible for his brain damage and the potential blame by funding his career". So now you're a doctor AND a lawyer too? The post doesn't address whether or not the WWE was complicit, liable or responsible in part or whole for his brain damage. It addresses if his accomplishments should be discredited or erased, so you reiterating "yes" with an emphasis on public relations? Ok. We can agree to disagree.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

My opinion is that of the public, people would have made the connection without evidence same as OP did

[loveslongnails]

The post is says in essence "does a heinous act automatically discreet the accomplishments of the person". You say it's dependent on the act, dependent on the effect, but for most part, yes and yes, and you cite public opinion as a major factor because they WANT the accomplishments devalued or erased because of the acts. I say it doesn't change the fact that it was an accomplishment, nor should it. I'm also saying it doesn't need to be glorified, but it shouldn't be denied if recognized.

OJ Simpson still holds 4 NFL records, and though 83% of whites polled, and 58% of blacks polled, both in the USA, believe he's guilty of murder, the records are not lessened by it. They wouldn't be lessened even if he HAD been convicted, and the NFL wouldn't have needed to apologize or worry about public relations because they're too big!

Let's say a scientist finds a cure for any kind of cancer but 1 year later, while working on another disease cure, suddenly goes berserk and kills all the lab assistants. The autopsy reveals, ironically, that a cancerous tumor deep in the brain center that affects rational judgement was very likely the culprit. Does that somehow discredit the fact that person cured cancer? No way.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

You’re taking my commentary on a single event and using it as an excuse to say that’s my opinion in every case

[loveslongnails]

You're correct, I did that, and may apology as I should have clarified my position vs yours;
I disagree that it "depends on the acts and its effects". I don't think it ever "depends".

My position is "an accomplishment is an accomplishment; when it's achieved, it's done, it's recorded, it's history, end of story". Whatever the person does after that doesn't discredit the achievement itself, but rather, the "perception of it, and the person", that's all.

The public relations dilemma or PR slant doesn't matter to me in terms of the accomplishment.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Then we can agree to disagree and call it there. Just because Hitler was a decent painter doesn’t mean his art skills outweighs his other actions.

[Daniela1982]

That is the same thing some football players had that had committed suicide. They felt themselves going bonkers so ended their lives. It's something that was from getting recurring impacts to their head, which can cause your brain to rattle around in your skull.

[LordMadara]

Ohk I'm borderline crazy and yet to be diagnosed,

But. . . . Chris Benoit and many other celebrity deaths are by default caused by the secret society's fault

How you ask?

One needs no deeper digging then the case of Michael Jackson's mysterious death , his doctor the fall guy , his sister's unwillingness to talk about the last phone calls she had with MJ

"They gonna kill me !!! They gonna kill me"

We all know who's they 😂 but let's shy away from it and blame Chris Benoit's brain damage as the cause of his obscene and gruesome murder of his own family 🤭

Sorry I did say I'm borderline personality disorder crazy 🤭

Secret agents operating in this platform I said nothing check for yourself

[Still-alive]

I would say it doesn't discredit their accomplishments but i would understand if all their fans completely abandoned them for good.

For me i was a big fan of kevin spacey and his movies, then after all those allegations came out that were pretty damning and convincing i have a hard time re-watching anything with him in it. He's a great actor, he did earn his oscar fro American beauty but i will pretty much avoid any movies he appears in, in the future. I know he's pretty much blacklisted but just in case he manages to get back into the movies again i won' watch his stuff.

[Staximus]

Even 25 years ago I thought Kevin Spacey was a shady slimeball

[Still-alive]

@Staximus eh i just thought he was one of those types to goof around a lot like Robin Williams.

I pretty much liked any movie he was in from the 90s and thought he well deserved the oscar in 1999.

[handsomelad70]

You have to judge what is "acceptable" bad behaviour. For instance, when I was a small boy, Australia's unofficial anthem,"Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport" was penned and sung by Rolf Harris, a generations-long pervert who was imprisoned for FOUR years (not the rest of his life) for child molestation. Harris, who died at 93 last May 10, was stripped of the honours Australia conferred upon him because of his abhorrent crimes and "Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport," which contains an anti-Aboriginal Australian verse, is almost never played today, in Australia or anywhere else.

[DJB72]

Benoit was an incredible athlete. His reaction when Eddie Guerrero died was heartbreaking and I can't help wondering if Eddie hadn't passed if things for Benoit would have been different.

There are exceptions, naturally. The observations Mengele noted while experimenting with the Jews in Auschwitz for example. But in most cases the accomplishments or discoveries are separate from the character of the people who made them.

[handsomelad70]

Benoit wasn't responsible for his horrific acts (unlike Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka, who slew his girlfriend in 1985, but had his crime covered up by POS Vince McMahon, who paid the cops to look the other way until about 2015, when prosecuting Snuka became impossible because of Snuka's dementia and cancer which claimed his life Jan.15,2017) because Benoit's brain had been completely eroded by CTE ala Patriots TE Aaron Hernandez.

[DJB72]

Agreed. He should have been forced to retire years earlier after the head blows he took.

What happened was a tragedy that the WWE should have accepted it played a role in creating. The combination of their schedule, physical requirements and the injuries the wrestlers have to get in the ring with is disturbing.

Mark Callaway had a shattered orbit, Steve Austin had a broken neck and they're just the tip. Eddie Guerrero's heart attack might have been avoided if they'd been more stringent about giving the stars more down time between bouts.

[normalice]

It feels like it maybe should in the moment, but ~100 years later or so when everyone involved is dead and is universally considered to have led a primitive unenlightened life anyway, it's probably fine. I happen to live 100 years in the future so tend to get over it in this way for modern artists etc, myself.

[TallAnon]

Not at all, terrible people can bring amazing results.
The biggest example I can think of is Josef Mengele, also known as the Angel of Death.
His research was terrible, he caused so much suffering with his human experiments and he got away with it as well. However, he got results and science has benefit from it.

[dolemite58]

I don’t think it discredits how good they were, OJ Simpson was still a phenomenal running back. I use to watch wrestling all the time and Chris Benoit was entertaining to watch but he really wasn’t anything special in terms of his character/stage presence. As messed up as it is to say, if he hadn’t have had such a dramatic ending to his life I don’t think he would’ve be remembered as much.

[Agape93]

Yeap. If you cured every disease, started a Charity that saved millions of starving kids and cleaned up the environment but molested a single kid one time, I'd sooner kill you than praise you.

[ProbablyClueless]

It never discredits their accomplishments in my mind, but it puts a different context over everything in life.

You have to look back at things and see them a little bit differently.

[JoePro_]

For a long time, I've been the sort that tries to give credit where it's due. Bad or good, and each person will have some of each.

[JayBones]

No. I don't judge a monkeys ability to swim or a fishes ability to climb a tree so why would I judge a serial rapists ability to write an amazing song.

[Joshydavid25]

Nah, I mean look at Michael Jackson with all his allegations.. Didn't stop people from loving his music even today..

[Juxtapose]

No, just look at Lovecraft and how popular he was despite being vicious racist who named his cat the hard n word.

[OtterMan68]

Thomas Jefferson owned slaves and raped one, but he wrote the Declaration of Independence, authorized the Louisiana Purchase and founded the U of VA

[Fuentes]

No I love Chris Benoits intro song lol whatever by our Lady peace lol aee Bella we have a lot in common u needa stop playing

[CuriousMufuxka]

Hell yes it does! The hardest part of gaining fame is controlling it. Not keeping it alive (Ask Benoit, oh wait) Not trying to capitalize and certainly not earning it.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

It depends on things.

[Charliefretz329]

Brain damage can change a person

[laly520]

depends on what they have done