I've seen a few of these floating around, but this is the first 4-digit I've come across.
Have fun... it'll be super easy to cheat, but I know you won't. Extra credit for showing your work / explaining your process. For reference, I timed myself and it took me just under 7min.
I love a good challenge
I don't know if I have it in me today
Ya know, I would except I don't think I have it in me
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So, there appears to be a bit of a debate regarding this riddle. To math ot not to math. And, as it is, it is not math it is merely logic. There are no equations, formulas, sequences, patterns, etc involved. Somply using the clues provided in a process of elimination.
How's everyone's brain doing today? Up for a little mental challenge? Can you break the code?
in 5201, it says ¨one number is right ad well placed, however 5 and 0 both are not in it, so we rule those out, and it can't be 2 because of the first line of numbers
so 1 is at the end
this also means we can now rule out 2 as well - no 2
if we look at the end row of numbers, we now know both 2 and 5 are not in it, so 8 and 4 must be in it (just not in the correct places yet)
so 8 and 4 are in it, and 1 has to be at the end
if we use the last row and compare it to row 1, 8 has to be the number it is talking about, so we can now rule out 9
now if we look at row 2, we know 9 and 7 are not in it, so it has to be 1 and 3
we now know all the numbers (8, 4, 3, and 1 at the end) but they are not yet in correct order
lets look at 8, in row 1 and 5, it says 8 cannot be here: xx8x and in row 5, it says 8 cannot be here: 8xxx. we know 1 is at the end, so it leaves this: x8xx as 8´s spot
the remaining 2 spots are here: x8x1 but it says 3 isn't here: xx3x, so 3 must be here: 38x1
finally, we simply add 4 in that 3rd spot (as there's no where else for it to go), and there we go!
As we know 7 cannot be in it the 2nd line means 193 but then we know 2 and 5 are not correct, last line means 8 and 4 are present, this means 8 is the main number from first line
A) 6 5 0 7 None used B) 9 2 8 _ One is used, wrong position C) 1 9 3 _ Two are used, wrong position D) _ 2 _ 1 One is correct position E) 8 _ 2 4 Two used, wrong position
F) 1 must be correct on Line D because 2 in line B is in the wrong position
G) On Line E, two numbers are used. 8 and 2 both appear on Line B, so they can not both be used. So 4 on Line E must be used
H) We now know that two numbers are 1 and 4.
I) On Line C we know that 1 is used. So either 9 or 3 are used, but not both.
J) On Line E, we know that 4 is used. So either 8 or 2 are used, but not both.
K) We know from Line D, that 2 can not be used. So we know that 8 is used.
We now have three numbers: 1,4, and 8. The last number is either 9 or 3.
L) One Line B, we know that 8 is used, so the last number can not be 9. So the last number is 3.
We now have all four numbers: 1, 3, 4, 8
M) 8 can not be in the first, third or fourth position ( Lines E, B, and D )
N) 8 must be in second position.
O) 3 can not be in second, third or fourth position ( Lines N, C, and D )
P) 3 must be in first position
Q) 4 must be in third position - it's the only one left.
@zeitgeist057 It can be done in a shorter way. I was doing it one step at a time so it's easier to explain. I originally wrote it as a single paragraph, but decided it's better to single step it for clarity. Even as it is, I don't know how many people can follow it.
I got 3841, and I timed it: 9 minutes, 19 seconds.
I kind of wasted a few minutes in the beginning, I was down the wrong track and had to start over completely. My second attempt I was more structured. I started with making groups of numbers along with how many of each group were correct numbers and which could be eliminated. I started out with the given that 0, 5, 6, and 7 were not part of the combo.
From the first clue, I had 2, 8, and 9 = two are good.
Second clue, 1 and 3, 9 = two are good
Third clue. 2 & 1 = one is good (and in the right place)
Fourth clue is the "bad" givens
Fifth clue, 8, 2, and 4 = two are good.
From there, I looked at the third clue and tried assuming 2 was the good number. But then I came across a contradiction in what that would lead to, so I went the other way and assumed 1 was good and 2 bad. That lead to the fifth clue giving me 8 and 4, which makes 9 the bad one in the first clue, which gives me 1 and 3 as good for the second clue.
Once I had my 4 winners, 1, 3, 4, & 8, I made a quick chart of the four positions each could be in. I circled the fourth position for 1, given to me by the third clue. First clue had me cross out third position 8 and second clue meant 3 doesn't go there either, so it must be 4. Fifth clue says 8 isn't in first position, leaving only 2nd position, and 1st position for 3.
2 can't be used because clues 1+3 conflict, which narrows the codes down to xxx1
Clue 4 means 8 and 4 are two right digits in the wrong places, which narrows it down to either 9 or 3 as the final digit.
Where I messed up is not realizing that 9 can't be used because clues 1+4 conflict. 8 is definitely a correct number so 9 in clue 1 can't be the one right number in the wrong place.
I think I just got sloppy by seeing 9 only had the third spot possible remaining and 4891 was an easy find that appeared to fit all the criteria. Fun puzzle!
"correct but wrong place" means it's the right number (0-9), but in the wrong place (1st-4th position in the sequence)
It's not really a maths problem so much as a logic problem. No addition, subtraction or other maths except using the ten options of numbers 0-9. It could have used colored blocks instead of numbers and been the same problem.
@zeitgeist057 lol I may not be the best at math but I know it when I see it. But since you’re trying to obviously help me out here let me try and help you out too. That way we both maybe learn something.
Also before I even explain it let’s recall and highlight the part where I said 50/50 because I could be confident enough to admit I wasn’t sure but now that you wanted to address this, I can give you something more definite to educate and maybe appease.
Mathematics noun: mathematics; noun: applied mathematics; noun: pure mathematics the abstract science of number, quantity, and space. Mathematics may be studied in its own right ( pure mathematics ), or as it is applied to other disciplines such as physics and engineering ( applied mathematics ).
-Oxford
—————————
What are Number Patterns? In Mathematics, [⚠️]number patterns are the patterns in which a list number that follows a certain sequence. [⚠️] Generally, the patterns establish the relationship between two numbers. It is also known as the sequences of series in numbers.
Now you said it could have blocks. Doesn’t matter, because geometry, topology, and algebra don’t all use numbers, exclusively. They have figured, shapes, and letters.
It’s the more of a matter of
Well let me quote this one as they can explain it better than I:
“a number is a mathematical concept used to count, measure, and label.”
-splashlearn. com
It really doesn’t matter what the variables are. They’re just concepts to help “count, measure […].”
The biggest thing seen here is pattern and sequencing. That’s how I knew it was math. Maybe this all didn’t solidify for you, but yeah in summary it’s just math.
Because it has numbers it can be considered arithmetic. Anyways. I like some forms of math but I just hate it and there’s nothing wrong with me for hating it.
I aced geometry in my highschool classes, and I aced physics for a semester when I was actually paying attention and attending school.
I love basic multiplication and butterfly effect. Everything else is meh to me.
Good stuff though. 👍
And hey, I’m glad you solved it! Looks like you did a good job there and I’m sure you had fun.
Also I replied late only because I’ve been under the weather (flu), otherwise I would’ve responded much, MUCH, sooner.
@Rosexøxø thanks for sharing more insight on your perspective, and so much yes to what you said regarding the wide spectrum of maths. The whole world is maths, the theory of relativity, gravity, computer programming and even biology can be represented via maths.
What I was getting at is that you don't have to apply any math to solve this riddle, it's just a process of elimination. I said colored "blocks" but really the "blocks" part of that could be removed and its still true with colors, no geometry or algebraic elements. Though I do get what you are saying. This code-breaking exercise is very closely related to a game I used to play as a child, "Mastermind". Though not specifically a maths problem, it can be represented mathematically, and maths can be applied. Morse code is patterns and sequencing, though it's not math. Most languages are as well, to some extent. Though as you have illustrated, it's quite easy to interpret many things mathematically.
No hate on you in any way, if you're not into this or whatever else. I wasn't trying to convince you to do something you don't want to do or imply there was something wrong with you for hating maths. I was just pointing out that the presence of numbers didn't make it maths, any more than having numbers on jerseys, the score card, and the field makes football a mathematical game (though again, as you've illustrated, one could take the stance and make the argument that it IS, using many logical examples).
The Mastermind game uses colored pieces but is essentially the same as this problem. You make guesses and the other person tells you how your guess rates in terms of how many colors you got right and if any of them are in the right spot: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3022521/ states the game "creates opportunities for students to discuss scientific reasoning, hypothesis-testing, effective experimental design, and sound interpretation of results."
Describes it as a code-breaking game, and while mathematicians have analyzed the various possible permutations and how to best win or solve it, the game itself is simply logic. Though to speak to that, math as been described as a discipline with a "foundation of pure logic" . As a child playing it, I did no calculations, I just used logic that if I placed all brown pegs and was told "one right in the right place" then the final code had one brown peg.
There are also heaps of riddles out there that follow the same principles, without the use of maths, for example: "In a horse race, the black horse doesn't win, but beats the brown horse. The brown horse lost to the tan horse. The white horse beat the tan horse. Which horse won?" Again, no maths, though you could easily apply maths as a tool to solve it.
Anyway, thanks again for the perspective and conversation. I do think I understand better what you were repulsed by in the problem, and maths or not, that's totally a-okay with me :)
@zeitgeist057 you can call it my perspective if that helps you feel better about yourself but before I even go on reading I’ll address the part where you mentioned Morse code.
Morse code is a language not math.
It doesn’t even relate to this. You just kind of threw something irrelevant into it and tried to make some wild comparison.
But for technicality sake it COULD be math because like with all alphabets there is a set value of letters to work with and different variations of words that can be made. That’s the mathematical aspect and if humoring you with Morse code can be something qualify-able then this can be qualified by math by your own personal reasoning and this addition of “Morse code.”
You said the process of elimination-
Yeah-
That’s literally a big part of math. Especially when a variable is unknown. It’s called the Elimination method. In sequences and other forms of math probability is used to solve problems.
It all ties and fits in and as I quoted before so nothing in my biased perspective or my own words- it’s math.
You want to disagree?
Good
But it’s clearly math.
And it’s
Math*
Not maths, unless it’s mathematics, but with also research I suppose that’s the common abbreviation where you’re from.
I forgot to mention how baseball uses analysts and such (I didn’t read and become informed on all of it) but I believe a movie called money ball gives insight to it how they could predict the best teams or so or whatever to win and it was all through numbers.
Also you said repulsed.
I do dislike math, but I really was “repulsed” that you felt the need to try and explain something to me.
I can be wrong about the question itself, but I know it’s math lol like a 2 year old can easily tell this is math.
You solved it yourself, ya had fun with it, so carry on.
I didn’t ask any questions on this entire topic.
If you wanted to explain how to make it easier (to come to some conclusive answer) that’s nice of you, but I’m sure anyone and everyone who looks at your comment and your way of finding it will have the help they need to solve it themselves.
So no need to repeat yourself. 🤷♀️
If you want to tell me it’s not math. I honestly don’t know what you’re trying to do right there lol. I was kind of surprised and annoyed by your comment. It was unwelcome, unnecessary, inaccurate, and I didn’t appreciate it.
The articles and the mention of a game you played when you was younger was nice. I’ll give those a read. Everything else? Irrelevant,
I said my piece.
I won’t be responding.
If I have any further issues with you on other topics we’ll have to block each other. I simply don’t tolerate those who express themselves to me in a disrespectful manner.
Essentially calling me wrong lol the audacity. 🤦♀️
I was wrong if I tried to solve the prompt/ question.
It's actually not math. There are no equations, etc. The numbers 0-9 could be replaced by 10 different colors or 10 different letters as it's actually a process of elimination to find the answer.
@Julie_TS Sorry to be pedantic, especially after getting the wrong answer, but Maths isn't just numbers, you can do it with colours just the same. Or letters!
9 2 8 5: One number is correct but wrong placed. 1 9 3 7: Two numbers are correct but wrong placed. 5 2 0 1: One number is right and well placed. 6 5 0 7: Nothing is correct. 8 5 2 4: Two numbers are correct but wrong placed.
From these clues, we can deduce the following:
From clue 4, we know that 6, 5, 0, and 7 are not in the code. From clue 3, we know that 2 is in the code and in the correct place, so the code is _ _ 2 _. From clue 1, since 2 is already in the code but in the wrong place, the correct number must be 9, 8, or 5. But from clue 4, we know that 5 is not in the code, so the correct number must be 9 or 8. Since 9 is in clue 2 but in the wrong place, the correct number must be 8. So the code is _ _ 2 8. From clue 2, since 9 is in the code but in the wrong place, the correct number must be 1, 3, or 7. But from clue 1, we know that 9 is in the code but in the wrong place, so the correct number must be 1 or 3. Since 1 is in clue 3 but in the wrong place, the correct number must be 3. So the code is _ 3 2 8. From clue 5, since 2 and 8 are already in the code but in the wrong place, the correct number must be 4. So the code is 4 3 2 8.
So, the solution to the puzzle is 4328. I hope this helps! Let me know if you have any other puzzles or questions.
The first one says, One number is right but it's in the wrong place. Does that mean there's ONLY one number that's right or there's more than one but only one of the right ones is in the wrong place?
Clue 3 is where the number 1 comes in. #4 says none of the numbers are correct. That drops the 0, 5, 7 and 6 as possibilities anywhere else, right? So, that leaves 9, 2 and 8 in the top row. 1, 9, 3 in the 2nd. 2 & 1 in the 3rd. And 8, 2 & 4 in the 5th. #3 says only 1 number is correct and in the right place. By process of elimination, that has to be the 1. It CAN'T be 5 and 0 because those are both knocked out by the 4th clue. That leaves the 1 and 2 but, it CAN'T be the 2 because the 3rd clue says only ONE number is correct AND in the right place but, clue 1 says there's only ONE number correct and it's NOT in the right place so, if 2 is NOT in the right place in the first row, how can it BE in the right place in the 3rd when it's in the exact same position? So, that leaves 9 & 8 in the first row. #5 says that 2 numbers are correct but in the wrong place. Well, we've already knocked out 5 & 2 so, that leaves 8 & 4 so, that'd mean that 8 is the correct number in the first row dropping 9, which kills 9 in the 2nd row. leaving 1 & 3. #2 says 2 numbers are correct but in the wrong place but, we've already discerned that 1 is in the right place in the 3rd row. Now, we just have to suss out where 3 goes. Now, we're down to 8, 3 and 1. #5 says there's 2 correct numbers but neither is in place. It can't be 5 & 2 so, it HAS to be 8 & 4. 8 is in the wrong place in rows 1 and 5 so, it HAAS to go in position 2 because 1 is in position 4 Since 3 is the correct number in the 2nd clue but in the wrong place, it HAS to go over to the far left. So, it HAS to be 3841.
I indeed had a short start towards it. But why would I need to 'prove' my wits with something not that relevant. My job is naval engineering. Today I analysed the force flow in a mechanical application and calculated the resulting scantling requirements accordingly, after I had adjusted the geometry so that it works/moves the way it is intended to. Heh heh... Doesn't sound like it - but it's fun in some way. When later it works, that is :)
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