Why it’s almost impossible for men and women to be “just friends”

[TruthBringer]

Disclaimer: This myTake will discuss the topic mainly about heterosexuals. Some points discussed such as sexual attraction can apply to people who aren’t heterosexual. Other than that, I can predict that this Take is going to trigger many people. Some who aren’t even going to read past the title and start talking crap in the comments. That reflects more about your character than anyone else.

This myTake will explain general reasons to why it rarely works for both men and women to be ‘just friends’. We will go through the general points to why this rarely works, debunk some shaming tactics as well as telling what requirements there should be in order to make it work. At the end, I will provide insight to why I personally choose to stay away from friends of the opposite sex.

There is often sexual attraction involved

Often one of the two (usually the guy) is sexually attracted to the woman. When at least one of the two finds the other sexually attractive, it will cause the other person to often want more to just be friends. As soon as one person wants more than the other, then that’s a one-sided friendship. Both parties are not on the same frequency in terms of how they perceive the ‘friendship’. Too many people (perhaps even you who reads this) are unaware that they are IN a one-sided friendship. Just because YOU don’t see it anything more than friendship, doesn’t mean the other person doesn’t have desires for it. Ultimately, you don’t know what’s going on in their head. Take a quick look here:

Then why do they remain “friends”?

There is a reason why the “friendzone” is such a known term. One that people hate to be associated with. So why do they still remain “friends”? Well, often this happens because the one who wants more decides to stick around in HOPE that the other will one day to become more than “friends”.

In the case of women, they often know that their guy friends want to become more than friends. They know they want to have sex with them. But they don’t see them in that same way. What they DO enjoy is the free attention/validation and fulfilled favors that they are getting. In many cases, these guy friends are also used as a potential back-up plan when things go south with the current boyfriend. Or perhaps they keep them as a back-up plan if the guy they truly want won’t come around. So these guys would stick around and often trying to simp their way into her graces and then end up frustrated that she doesn’t come around. So win-win for her. She gets “boyfriend energy” without needing to give a piece of her in return.

To those who say “NO THEY DON’T, WE REALLY ARE JUST FRIENDS!”. Yeah to you... Go ask your guy “friends” to come sleep or be in a relationship with you and let’s see what happens. Just like Steve Harvey says in the video, the only reason why you’re not more than friends is because you didn’t allow it to be anything more.

It complicates things

So many “friendships” have ended because one of the two got in another relationship. They get ditched like it’s nothing. So much for “friendship” eh? I have an ex who ditched her “guy friends” to be with me, and as soon as I ended the relationship, she immediately ran back to her old “guy friends”. Because she knows they will chase her again. Way too many people had dealt with broken relationships that were a result because of influences from “friends” of the opposite sex. Some by cheating, some by “playful flirting”, others by having these “friends” cross lines etc. Eventually someone is going to lose it. And often, it's the person who is "friends" but having secret feelings.

Let's not forget that many people out there would not want to date someone who has friends with the opposite sex for the very reasons we have so-far discussed. So you're missing out on great relationships because of this. And no, it doesn't have to do with insecurity.

Which leads me to my next point...

“You’re just jealous and insecure!” “You have trust issues!” Oh Really?

This is probably the most common shaming tactic in regards to this topic, in order to discredit the person who has an issue with their significant other having friends of the opposite sex. The reason for this is that they try to manipulate and gas light the person into believing that they are the problem despite their intuition and healthy skepticism. This shaming tactic removes all nuances just to shut down a legitimate concern. The reality is, these people don’t know the difference between having standards and being insecure. They don’t know the difference between someone who is being insecure and someone who does not allow having a partner who allows others to sniff around his/her “territory” (No, that doesn’t mean “property” for the snowflakes out there who get triggered easily). They can’t distinguish insecurity from someone who is wise enough to refuse having a backdoor open for potential problems.

On the contrary, these shamers are trying to hide the fact that this is confidence and knowing what you seek in a relationship rather than allowing a backdoor open to potential problems. The funny thing is, these are often the same people who would have an issue or start to develop feelings of jealousy when THEIR significant other would have friends of the opposite sex. At the end of the day, there is a reason why so many people feel uncomfortable if this happens. That’s their intuition ringing a bell that this isn’t “normal”. Because with everything mentioned above, no self-respecting person would allow this.

And when it comes to trust --> Trust is earned, not given. Don’t expect someone to trust you when you’re sitting there entertaining other people, playing with other people’s feelings knowingly or unknowingly. Don’t expect trust when you’re turning a blind eye to warnings about problems that have been the downfall of many relationships due to “friends” of the opposite sex.

So don’t let anyone try to guilt-trip you into feeling like there is something wrong with you for not accepting it. In the end, if you’re tolerant of everything, then you stand for nothing.

“When someone you have an intimate relationship with objects to an opposite-sex friendship, it is a very big mistake to assume that this is jealousy stemming from insecurity. Partners with high self-esteem will not tolerate the disrespect of poorly handled opposite-sex friendships. This is a sign of their emotional intelligence and their understanding of what is required to maintain an intimate bond. Translation—the problem very likely isn’t the partner who is objecting, it is likely the way the opposite sex friendship is being handled by one or both of the friends.”

Source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/living-forward/201912/when-are-opposite-sex-friends-threat-your-relationship

So how CAN they be friends?

• If both parties have absolutely no sexual attraction to each other and do not desire each other for anything other than the friendship. This is extremely hard to achieve as it doesn’t work for the majority (especially the young people).
• If both guy and girl grew up together. Westermarck effect. Google it.
• Perhaps later in life when you’re older and the sex-drive has dwindled.

Why I personally choose not to have female friends (anymore)

Sexual attraction got in the way:

Well of course the general things mentioned above apply to why I don’t believe in it. Because I have dealt with these points myself. I’ve had female friends whom I felt attracted to, but they didn’t feel the same. I also had female friends whom I didn’t feel attracted to, but they did. One girl wanted to ditch her boyfriend who didn’t satisfy her needs, so she wanted me to give it to her even though we were “just friends” in my perspective. So either I would separate myself in order to preserve my mental health or they did aswel. I also had a female friend who ended the “friendship” because she got in a relationship only to come back to me when it ended. And the funny thing is, when I refused, she wanted to smash.

It was always one-sided:

I’ve never had a single female friend who didn’t only focus on her own “problems” or life. Whenever we hung out at school, in private or talked on the phone, it is always about them. I was that “listener”, but rarely was I getting listened to (yes I tried many times to turn the conversation and I had the “we need to talk” with them more often than I should). I don’t have this issue with male friends where things are balanced. I never got truly helpful advice from my female friends. Their advice always revolved around what I wanted to hear rather than what I needed to hear. The reason for this is because they cared more about keeping the connection between us well rather than taking the risk with some cold-hard facts. Or perhaps they just didn’t know better. My experience with male friends (who also have big plans) always had some quality advice to give whenever I needed them.

Limited similar interests:

Unlike my guy friends, I have very limited interests with the female friends or women in general. Even though I can work and socialize great with them, my interests do not suit them and neither do theirs suit me. So I always ended up talking about things that THEY were interested in. Often things which I considered unproductive. While I share many similar interests with guy friends.

Most importantly: I respect my girlfriend and our relationship:

I’m currently in a relationship for quite some time and both my girlfriend and I share the same views. She didn’t have male friends when we got to know each other and I didn’t have female friends. She shares the same belief system as me. And as she says it herself, she only cares about my attention/validation. And her actions prove her words flawlessly. This applies for me aswel. I don’t need other women around me in order to feel validated. I’m not going to give “boyfriend energy” to someone else other than my girlfriend.

My girlfriend and I respect each other's boundaries. And we respect the relationship enough to not allow a backdoor open to potential problems that could compromise the relationship. She has her female friends and I have my male friends. And even though we have different interests, we always find a way to find a middle-ground and find interesting things to discuss or do.

And thanks to this, we NEVER had any issues poisoning the relationship that come from “friends” of the opposite sex. Like so many people have experienced...

I have no issues working and socializing with women outside a “friendship” setting. And so far, it has always worked great without any issues.

[Wraith_Cemetery]

You completely nailed this topic out of the ball park. Excellent insight and truths. There will be a lot of triggered females in the comments though.

You're absolutely right. Attempting to maintain friendships with the opposite sex is typically a losing battle. In all my years of interactions, I have seen intimate relationships fail because those involved have issues regarding one or both partners engaging in opposite sex friendships. Sometimes it has resulted in cheating. Sometimes one of the persons leaves their partner to get involved with the "friend" instead. There is usually a lot of jealousy problems which causes fights between those who are dating.

Needless to say, I have rarely ever seen it work. I definitely stayed away from being friends with the opposite sex, especially while being in an intimate relationship. My partner, as well, doesn't have friends of the opposite sex. She and I have a mutual understanding on it. Like you, I attempted to do it years ago but it didn't work out. Girls used me as a dumping ground for their problems, tried to use me as someone to gossip with, and one of them developed feelings for me and tried to get me to break up with my girlfriend at the time. Never again will I have friends of the opposite sex. I do, however, have a mutual friend with my partner but I keep contact with her to a minimum.

[kc_4308]

I tried the friendship thing with men they either want sex with that friendship. Now I don’t do friendship with men.

[kc_4308]

Gay men yes , women yes, and straight men no

[MysteriousDarkness]

@kc_4308
What is the other thing they want because you said they either want see with that friendship but never said what the other thing is.

[hahahmm]

A lot of guys who claim to be homosexual are actually bi. I've seen it many times to the point where if a woman told me her friend is gay so I shouldn't think of it like she's with a straight man, I would laugh in her face.

[kc_4308]

@MysteriousDarkness a lot of men don’t want strictly platonic friendships unless sex is involved

[MysteriousDarkness]

@kc_4308
That also means there are guys who do just want a platonic friendship.

[kc_4308]

@MysteriousDarkness rare, but true.. I have one male friend who isn’t trying to have sex with me. He’s the only male friend - every other friend I had to cut off

[OlderAndWiser]

1. I do not currently have any very close female friends. The closest females who I know only as friends are my brother's wife and my best friend's wife. I currently live with my girlfriend as I view her as The One.

2. I have had female friends in the past. What you describe is true for SOME male-female relationships. Forty years ago, there were two who I wanted to have as sexual partners but it never happened. I moved on and found partners who also wanted me as a romantic/sexual partner.

3. I am friendly with several females in my office but it is just an office friendship. I don't even go out to lunch with them. I would not do anything to cause my girlfriend to have any doubts about me, even though she is not a jealous woman.

4. HOWEVER, I think you are guilty of one flaw in this myTake. Most of what I know about men begins with what I know about myself and I have, at times, mistakenly assumed that all other guys felt and thought the same as me. However, I can also list several ways in which I am an atypical male and the atypical characteristics are sufficient to call into question my assumption.

You have described how YOU feel about male-female relationships and ascribed the same motivations, thoughts, and feelings to all males. You need to consider whether you know enough about ALL OTHER GUYS to make that assumption.

5. If your conclusions are true, then there should be NO examples of true platonic male-female relationships. None. I think your response would be to say that any male-female couple who thinks that they are "just" friends is deceiving themselves. But your conclusion that they are deceiving themselves is based solely on the belief that your underlying assumption MUST be true and, therefore, you have found the most logical explanation to explain why they express a false belief about their relationship. Essentially, you have formed a belief and refuse to accept any challenge to that belief.

So. . . yes, what you said is true much of the time but I do think there are valid examples that prove this is not universally true.

[TruthBringer]

I get what you're saying, but it seems like the point of this Take went over your head, unfortunately. If you open the sources I've provided, they show that this goes way beyond personal belief and projection. I'm actually not projecting anything. next to the fact that I'm providing examples and sources that prove my point, I also happen to have experienced that which others also claim to have experienced (or even managed to show in the video). Not to forget to mention that I said why it's ALMOST impossible. I never said it's impossible. And I've also provided examples to what factors should be met in order to have that true platonic friendship (by "true" I mean both truly do not have sexual interest in one another).

I'll give you a quote from Psychology today who mentioend results from a study:

"Monsour, Harris, and Kurzweil2 found that 64% of men and 44% of women reported that their cross-sex friends became their sexual partners. However, as men and women have more opportunities to interact with one another in workplace and social settings, it is inevitable that people of the opposite sex will find common interest and connection with one another that is likely to evolve into friendship.

These relationships don’t generally pose problems unless one or both parties in the friendship are in an exclusive intimate relationship with someone else. When this is the case, decades worth of psychological research shows, if not handled properly, there is strong potential for the opposite sex friendship to become a threat to the intimate relationship.3-19" - Jennice Vilhauer Ph. D.

[TruthBringer]

So according to the article, the study suggests that a big chunk of people within the study reported to have had sexual partners with their supposed to be "friends" of the opposite sex.

So no, I'm not projecting my own beliefs to all men out there. Neither did I say that it is impossible to have that kind of friendship. My Take simply points to it usually not being the case and why people get uncomfortable when their partner engaged in such "friendship". If it truly was not the case as I put it, then no one would have issues with their partners having cross-sex friendships

[lightbulb27]

You are a fascinating writer and had not seem your posts before... this one was forwarded to me. Was clearly expressed and a lot of depth of experience not just book study. Kudos.

What psychology today article stated summed it up well:
"What defines an exclusive intimate relationship isn’t just sex, it’s an emotionally intimate bond that allows for trust and vulnerability between two people. Creating an intimate bond with someone requires making them feel safe, loved, and cared for in a way that prioritizes your relationship with them above other relationships. The paradox of the intimate bond is that when it is treated with the care you would give if it were fragile, then it becomes stronger."

I don't agree with Mr. Harvey. I've had women that were interested in me and I drew the line with. I turned them down. I wonder if it's more an element of personality than male/female drive. But yes, there is one interested in the other or risk of that due to potential of bonding where that doesn't exist in same sex. If the last 2 people on earth are on an island, then that "friendship" changes to something else... that's just nature, so yea...

I learned that the hard way that female friends create messes, I had plenty and didn't realize the problems it creates with intimate partners. In general, stay away from such pollution. Other cultures seem to do that more as a matter of course... Jewish, Muslim notably... for good reason... gets people in trouble... creates dishonor.

[TruthBringer]

I appreciate the insights as well as the compliments. Thanks for sharing!

[lightbulb27]

Some insights afterthought: I had lot of experience with this in giving myself emotionally to other women. I could hold a sexual/dating line (because of inherent fears), but emotionally, I'd give too much to the wrong women. I wanted to connect with them, it felt good and so often, I'd dig into their "stuff"... I'd attach and not want to detatch. That roots back to stuff in me as a child, don't think my emotional needs were met by mom who was checked out emotionally a lot and dad wasn't there so much, I was shut down from other fears/curses. So women I'd date, I'd cause emotional turmoil called out in the snippet from article the article because I wasn't securing the relationship... and took quite a while for me to see it... chewed up 2 girlfriends in the process dealing with "me", my current girlfriend successfully working through it with me and recovering.

Point being, everyone is different, has our flaws, and we do these things for our reasons. Can state what good behavior is, but it's the inner work within each that needs completed... relationships expose those issues.

[NicoletteXO]

I agree with most of what you say.

When I was a teenager and in my early 20s I truly didn't get this.

However, over the years, ultimately almost every single one of my 'guy friends' from my early years has made a move on me. For some of them it took years, because they had to wait until I was between relationships.

However, as this happened time and time again, it eventually became clear that none of these guys were my friends just because they wanted to 'be my friend'. In a way, there was something a little heartbreaking about that.

That said, I think you misunderstand why women want guy friends. Yes, I agree, sometimes there is a validation aspect at play. But ultimately, I was friends with these men because I actually liked them as people - we had similar interests and values, I respected their characters and what they were doing in their lives. I could have amazing conversations with them, and gain a kind of perspective that I couldn't gain with my girlfriends. I cared about them.

Ultimately, I don't agree with your view that men and women cannot be just friends, even when one person (usually the man) also experiences sexual attraction to the other. It just means that it is more difficult for that person.

I would liken it perhaps to being friends with an extraordinarily wealthy person, when you yourself are not wealthy. There may be an element of you that is tempted to want what they have, but if you truly care about them as a person you will not try to take advantage of their wealth. You will simply enjoy being in the luxury of that environment while you are together, and that's that. It might be a bit hard sometimes, but it doesn't mean you can't be friends.

That said, if you enjoy strict delineations, that's great - everyone should do what works for them.

[TruthBringer]

Everyone reacts differently. Sure you can have a "friendship" when one has a "secret" crush on the other. What you should keep in mind that because of this sexual attraction, more often than not conversations and advices will be bent because of this sexual attraction. Things will be said with a certain agenda. While if they were giving the same advice to the same sex, it would be different. This is of course not an absolute rule, but has happened more than you could imagine. So while you enjoy being "friends" with those people, you're actually enjoying the company they want you to enjoy because of their desire for you. And people have often experienced friends who suddenly become distant or resentful for the simple fact that their feelings aren't being reciprocated.

I also had these wonderful times and experiences with female friends who apparently had a crush on me, but I came to find out their giggles, touching and liking whatever I say were being reinforced by their desire for me. And despite me enjoying all that, I can't look past the fact that it's not a genuine friendship. A true friend doesn't tell you what you want to hear, but what you NEED to hear.

Eventually when they made an advance and I didn't reciprocate, those "friendships" died out. Either instantly or over a short amount of time. So much for friendship eh? Well I didn't base this entire Take on my own experience but that of many others.

So even though I agree with you that one could still enjoy the company, nonetheless, I do not and will never call that kind of "friendship" a true friendship. And being in a relationship for quite some time, I don't do cross-sex relationships out of respect for my relationship. And neither does my girlfriend.

[NicoletteXO]

Look I fully agree with you. It takes a person of real moral fortitude to be able to harbour a desire for another person, without letting that impact the friendship. Actually, that would be a sign of unconditional love in a way.

I had similar experiences to you; which is why I used the term 'heartbreaking'. As soon as these men "took their shot" and didn't get what they'd hoped, they withdrew the entire friendship. Which to me is incredibly disloyal, and not the mark of a true friend.

[TruthBringer]

Precisely. And THAT is exactly why I made this Take. Genuine friendships are already hard to find. Trying to find it in the opposite sex (or even non-heterosexuals) makes things even harder because there is that extra obstacle to overcome, the obstacle of sexual attraction. And this is why I don't do friends of the opposite sex (with addition to the other points I've made). It's both out of experience and a pre-caution.

You also said that when you were a teenager and in your early 20s that you didn't understand the things mentioned in your Take. Now, this may or may not apply to you, but I've noticed that often women PRETEND to be naive, while in reality, they know very well that their male friends desire them for more than friendship. They still want to keep them around because of the benefits of having them around (favors, free validation, potential backup, etc.). We are led to believe that women are usually good at reading people and their intentions, but somehow that doesn't apply here anymore.. hmmm... Once again, not saying that's you, but I've come to the realization that whenever a woman claims to be naive in regards to this topic, I would immediately question her honesty.

[NicoletteXO]

You can question all you like. I truly thought they were my friends. Was I aware that there was a tinge of sexual spark? Yes. But I did not believe that that negated our friendship. Which is exactly why it was so shocking and heartbreaking to me when these men, who I had invested a lot of time and care and energy in over the years, essentially ditched me as a friend because they realized they weren't going to have a romantic relationship with me.

You talk about favours and validation. I think that's quite a superficial reading. Yes, I had some of these friends do things like carpentry work on a broken step in my home (they offered, I did not ask). And guess what? I made them a beautiful lunch of their favorite meal to say thank you. In my mind, this is just friends looking out for each other and actually giving a damn. Really sad that you think this is nefarious.

[NicoletteXO]

The thing is, it only became clear to me after a number of these men actually did the same thing in succession. At first I thought it might just be one. And then I saw the pattern. But this took years to play out. That whole time I was investing in the friendship, just as I would with my female friends. I was very sad when it eventuated the way it did. It was quite disillusioning.

[TruthBringer]

I don't think in such a nefarious way for the sake of being nefarious. I point this out because there are women out there who happen to exploit men on purpose. Even if they didn't truly mean "evil" by it. And often when they return the favor, the returned favor would pale in comparison to the actual favor delivered. I don't call someone like that a friend. Like I said, I'm not specifically talking about you, I'm talking about there are women in society who do this. And they are more common than you think. Same as certain girls who be "friends" with less attractive girls just to stand out. Or guys who would befriend a nerd in class just to secure someone who would help them score a higher grade.

When it comes to them offering, why do you think they offer? Because they secretly wanted it to lead something happening between you two. That's not your fault, but theirs. So in a way they are committing friendship "fraud" (don't take this term literally, it's just to pass the idea). So while you had pure intentions, they apparently did not. I'm simply saying that there are those out there who are aware of these intentions, but still take advantage of them, nonetheless. That doesn't make me "nefarious", but rather observant and realistic.

[NicoletteXO]

Well, I must live in a very different world to these women. I certainly don't know anyone who would be so superficial. The idea of deliberately 'exploiting' others in a friendship (whether male or female) just seems like a monumental waste of time when I could actually be cultivating genuine care with people I authentically feel a connection with.

Like, I don't get how it works out - how many 'favours' can someone extract or exploit, that makes cultivating a fake friendship worthwhile?

Like, let's quantify this: let's say (hypothetically) I am an evil superficial woman, and I am keeping a man around purely to court favours. Like, how many favours could a person pull before it became ridiculous? Maybe, two lifts in a week? And some help with a test? Well, that adds up to maybe $50 in Uber rides and $100 you could pay a tutor instead - MAX. So, let's say $150. But you also have to court those favours - so, paying the guy attention, talking with him on the phone, blah blah blah. Just with your time invested (because time is money) it's not even going to crack even financially. On top of that, there's the opportunity cost of not investing your time into a real friendship. So you forsake genuine connections, and don't get much at all. I just don't see the point of this. It doesn't make sense to me.

The only time I could see this working out for the hypothetically evil woman is if she is basically a full-on golddigger, targeting incredibly wealthy men.

But this is not the norm, and it's not really what we're talking about in the average interaction between male/female friends. So I just don't understand what you perceive the motivation is for women (even evil ones) in this.

[TruthBringer]

Like I said, there isn;t necessarily an evil intenion behind it. It is simply a need for constant attention/validation. This sems from a deep rooted insecurity. Often, coming from women who either didn't grow up with a father or didn't truly get love or guidance from them. So they seek to fill that void in other people. Either by keeping men around for constant attention/validation/venting (the male friends) or simply seek out the wrong type of men to date (nowadays known as the "asshole"/badboy type). You say it doesn't make sense, well it does and doesn't at the same time. If a girl can get dopamine highs from these momentarily satisfaction, all she has to do is let guys be around her or ho on to some dating app. It's all about feeling wanted and in the mean time taking advantage of the doors that have been opened for them by these male "friends".

The REAL question is why don't these men just walk away, but instead are willing to move mountains for a woman who has put them in the friendzone? The answer is lack of self-respect, lack of confidence and lack of an abundance mindset. Their little head has taken the wheel and giving them (false) hope that one day, things will escalate with that girl. But instead, this often plays out the way they didn't want. The girl not reciprocating that is, and thus they often drop the "friendship" while being full of resentment.

So all that I have mentioned above is so common that terms such as the "friendzone" and "nice guys vs bad boys" exist. It all became a meme at this point because of how common it is.

[Jamie05rhs]

@NicoletteXO I generally agree with your rich friend analogy. But where it fails is when you consider that different people have different priorities. If you value love more than money, then yeah, you can have a normal relationship with a rich person without being jealous. And if you value money more than love, then you might be able to have a normal platonic relationship with someone of the opposite sex without things getting weird. ... But if you value love more than anything else, and you're single, then I don't think you can really have a normal friend relationship with someone of the other gender (at least if they are attractive to you.). Because you will always be seeking love and wanting to have love.

[DJB72]

I disagree. Your premise is based on your own experience and what you suggest are universal issues

I've had female friends my whole life. The fact they have boobs was only an issue with one of them a few years ago because mine were bigger.

By your logic no straight guy could ever have a gay friend either.

As a young man when me sex drive was supposed to be higher having friends who were attractive girls wasn't a big deal. Maybe my generation had more self control than the current "friends with benefits" mentality. Even as a teenager my peers and I had friends of the opposite sex we had no desire to date despite them being attractive.

Yes, I've had a couple of friends where attraction between us became an issue, but I can count those on one hand. I wouldn't have enough space to list all the platonic friendships I have.

I respect your experience, however I disagree that the issues you encountered are the normal way of things.

Self knowledge, mutual respect and making a firm decision internally about how you want to be seen and - more importantly - the man you want to be can easily overcome any animalistic traits that threaten to turn a man into a rutting hog.

[TruthBringer]

"Your premise is based on your own experience and what you suggest are universal issues"

Really? Seems like you ignored all the sources I've provided. Let's quote something from Psychology Today (link is in the Take):

""Monsour, Harris, and Kurzweil2 found that 64% of men and 44% of women reported that their cross-sex friends became their sexual partners. However, as men and women have more opportunities to interact with one another in workplace and social settings, it is inevitable that people of the opposite sex will find common interest and connection with one another that is likely to evolve into friendship."

If what my Take is about was all about my experience alone, then I wonder where these numbers come from.

"Yes, I've had a couple of friends where attraction between us became an issue, but I can count those on one hand. " Thanks for proving my point.

"I wouldn't have enough space to list all the platonic friendships I have." - You don't know whether it is platonic on the other side, only for yourself. Often people keep to themselves. Some won't be able to handle it anymore while others swallow their hurt.

"By your logic no straight guy could ever have a gay friend either." Not a platonic one if the gay friend has feelings for the straight one. They would not be on the same frequency. It's basic logic.

Don't worry about me and self knowledge and overriding any animalistic trait. I've already passed that phase to know how to deal with things. And you will find out why if you actually read the last part of my Take where I explain why I disengage from cross-sex friendships.

[DJB72]

If you consider YouTube a reliable source for scientific research (it isn't) there's a fundamental flaw in your sources. But ok, let's look at the source from Psychology Today. Did you actually read the abstract of the source you quoted?

"One hundred and thirty eight individuals (females = 86, males = 52) completed two surveys designed to explore the extent to which the “sexual,” “emotional bond,” “audience,” and “equality” challenges were present in their cross-sex friendships. Over 98% of the participants were heterosexual, 99% were Caucasian, and approximately 5% were Hispanic."

So an incredibly small number of participants, zero of African or Asian ancestry or society. So 64% of 52 men. That's around 28 white guys. The study is an interesting starting point but hardly sufficient for a full scientific conclusion.

A couple of friends. Literally two. And I'm still friends with both of them. Nothing ever happened romantically with either of them and at the time in both instances both of us were unattached. We talked about it and in both cases decided together not to risk the friendships if anything went wrong. I've been friends with both of them over 30 years. So just for the record, that doesn't prove or disprove your point.

And if you're actually 24 as your bio says and you think you're past the phase where you're capable of being a slave to your hormones, then my condolences to your family for their loss...

[TruthBringer]

The youtube video's were merely to show examples from real life. No where did I claim they were scientific research. The survey conducted was a sample size more than enough to debunk your argument that my entire Take is based on my own experience. And nowhere did I claim it was sufficient for a full scientific conclusion. In fact, just as Richard Feynman had said, something cannot be proven, only disproven. So scientists can never make a full fledged conclusion without there to be doubt. And judging from that study, it was never its intention to. Again, you're trying to twist the context of the entire Take.

"And if you're actually 24 as your bio says and you think you're past the phase where you're capable of being a slave to your hormones, then my condolences to your family for their loss..." - Ha, another thing I didn't claim. Of course hormones rush through me, but I've managed to build more self-control compared to years ago. Doesn't take away the fact that I still am cautious about this whole topic. Hence why I don't open backdoors to potential problems especially since I'm in a relationship.

[Twalli]

I have a goid number of female friends and male friends. So does my girlfriend. We met through a program so most of our friends are the same. Of all of them I have only found one other I like (personality and looks) besides my girlfriend. Actually before meeting my girlfriend I was seriously considering asking (we'll call her T) out. I ended up choosing the girl that is my girlfriend, but I still like T. Those who know me know I an more loyal than most dogs. Because of that my girlfriend trusts me completely. She knows I like T and that it was just chance I asked her out before T. I saw her first when I decided to ask one of them out. T was sick that day and therefore not at the baseball game. The thing is I am friends and enjoy being friends with T and I enjoyed it before being attracted to her. I can't see how attraction is wrong if you can ignore it. If my girlfriend and I break up (about as likely as someone I know winning the lottery) I will try to date T, but as of now she's a friend and the energy between us is the same as it is with my make friends. Granted living in St. Louis allows almost everyone to bind over The Cardinals and (to a lesser extent) The Blues.

[TruthBringer]

I understand your perspective. Your situation actually happens to be better than the average situation (generally speaking). Your girlfriend knows your female friends aswel as you know her male friends (from what I can understand). While more often than not, the boyfriend doesn't know the male friends of his girlfriend and vice versa. This opens a door to all sorts of doubts and uncertainties. Also, you have an easier time ignoring the feelings considering you already have a girl. While for many guys out there, they don't and therefore orbit around their female friend. Often, resentment will start to build since they start to lose patience as the reciprocation that they hoped for isn't coming. This happens more than it should and therefore it is generally an eyebrow raiser when your significant other happens to have friends of the opposite sex (given they are heterosexual).

[Twalli]

I don't get social cues at all which is why I wouldn't know if T was reciprocating or not. I guess that means ai wouldn't get resentful because her interest in me or lack thereof wouldn't be evident. My girlfriend made out with me before I officially asked her out so I was relatively sure of her answer.

[midnightmoon05]

Good MyTake... Hope more young people understand the true meaning of a proper relationship between 2 people.

I don't do it because I want a real relationship with one man.
If I am giving any more attention to other males, then I am not 100% dedicated to my partner. My partner deserves 100% of my love, time, attention.
Not that I am treating him as my one and only and we don't have seprate lives.
We still have our friends, hobbies, activities we do sepreately. However, I will never ditch my partner to go with a guy to the movies or the beach or go to his house to bake a cake because he want to surprise his daughter with a birthday cake.
My guy friends from college became my partners friend... So we all became group friends.

I am confused why girls have a partner and still have a need to go out for drinks with other guys w/o the boyfriend. Or guys need to go help girls do stuff when they have a partner.

[TruthBringer]

If I could give this an MHO, I would have. Absolutely well said! I find that people who feel the need to surround themselves with friends of the opposite gender to actually want to have best of both worlds. The privileges of being single and the privileges of having a relationship. They want to have their cake and eat it too. This to me screams low-selfesteem, neediness and lack of respect for the relationship as their values seems fluid.

It's good to see more people like yourself with some integrity who also know how to prioritize a relationship. Thank you for sharing your views

[KrakenAttackin]

@midnightmoon05. Yes! Well said. The opposite gender "friendship" has an intimacy that is stolen from the main relationship. Nothing good can come from this.

[spuitkaas]

So I have male friends I have known for a long time. Truthfully, I think almost all of them wouldn't mind having sex with me, however, I don't think most of them would like a relationship with me. My personality could be fun for a friendship but not more. I have the same with my male friends. I think you get the sexual attraction and liking someone enough to want a relationship a bit confused because I think they're very different things.
Also I have male friends who are in a relationship already. What about those?

[TruthBringer]

The fact male friends want to have sex with a girl is already goes to prove my point of the idea of "just being friends" not being met. Guys who are in relationships already are not excluded from everything mentioned here, but the odds of them orbiting around the female friend is in theory less since they already are getting their action and attention from someone else. It's different if the dude is often hanging out with you and he is single. Some may act on it eventually while others won't dare to take that step. In the end, the idea of "just friends" has been tossed out of the window. You can't be "just friends" with someone who has desires to escalate things. Many guys just stay "friends" with a girl just for the hope of becoming more in the future, not because they oh so like her for her. I'm not saying your male friends are exactly like that, but it wouldn't surprise me if they are judging by what you've told me.

[spuitkaas]

I meant to reply but I forgot everytime sorry for that.
It depends of what you define by friends. If you want your friends to have absolutely no sexual attraction yes. I think my male friends know that trying to escalate things will ruin a friendship so they might wait for me to initiate. However they probably also know I won't. They stayed friends while I had a boyfriend so either its a really shitty plan that takes decades or they actually like hanging out with me.
Also as a woman who sometimes likes other women, I sometimes like my female friends too, but I wouldn't act on it bc I know it will make things awkward. So I appreciate them being my friend and still hang out with them. I don't dwell on the hope of ever becoming more because there are plenty of other people in the world?

[TruthBringer]

Guys don't always just put their eggs in one basket, they stick around because it's convenient while trying their luck elsewhere at the same time. But if they see a 'crack' to slip through towards your heart or into your pants, trust and believe they will act on it. The only reason why you are friends is because you made it absolutely clear that nothing else is happening except this friendship. I personally don't consider someone who is my "friend", but has secret desires to be more than that, and revolves the way they communicate with me around that agenda, a true friend.

[GenaBaby1995]

100% correct I don't have any gfs and only hangout guy friends. Sure, I love their attention, but in return they like my attention too! And sometimes they get more, but a course that end everything because it's usually only once for me. (usually drinks are involved).

""" So why do they still remain “friends”? Well, often this happens because the one who wants more decides to stick around in HOPE that the other will one day to become more than “friends”.

In the case of women, they often know that their guy friends want to become more than friends. They know they want to have sex with them. But they don’t see them in that same way. What they DO enjoy is the free attention/validation and fulfilled favors that they are getting. """

[TheSpaceGnome]

I have lots of female friends.

I'm a straight male.

But unless she is really pretty (model level pretty), and shares all the same interests/hobbies, and likes me, and is single, and doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, or do any other drugs, and has no tattoos, and has no kids, and doesn't want kids, and is sterile, and std free, and has the personality like, and is talented in art and gaming, and intelligent, and funny, then I'm not interested in her outside of friendship.

See your entire claim falls apart when you apply it to picky people.

[TruthBringer]

Lol this Take never was inteded to apply to everyone. You've been oddly specific so I'll leave this famous line: Pointing to exceptions to the rule doesn't disprove the rule itself

If something doesn't apply for person A, doens't mean it won't apply for person B, person C, person D, E, F, G, etc. Next

[TheSpaceGnome]

lots of people are picky though.

[TheSpaceGnome]

i would say the rule is people are picky, the exception is they don't care who they are with.

[Medhat-M]

Oh my God... This take is just pure class... You got everything, and I mean.. EVERYTHING covered with depth and great attention to details and most important stuff.. I actually don't need to add a single word.. And unlike most takes i read here, it's zero cringe, zero toxic, zero trying to be smart... thanks man, that was refreshing

[TruthBringer]

Thank you for the kind words. I've noticed the other snowflake (Aiko) who made a flawed Take in response to this one removed your comments. Goes to show he engages in the very same behavior he complains about. I'm glad to have written a more convincing Take.

I see you're from Egypt. Salam Aleikom, from the Netherlands 🇳🇱 🇪🇬

[Medhat-M]

Oh thanks man 😊

[Mango-man]

Another of those "doesn't apply to me" cases here. I have greatly different requirements for "friend-material" and "dating-material".

I could be friends with anyone I have something in common. But of those friends, only a negligible portion also falls into the "potential dating-material" category for me.

However your take nicely summs up what it wrong with today's society - the oversexualisation everywhere, be it advertisement, work carrier, porn,... makes masses' expectations of sexual behaviour twisted and they then expect sexual podtext in basically every encounter with the opposite gender (or their preferred sexual orientation), and these false expectations then prevent them from having normal friendships with the opposite gender.

[Silver158]

I agree with parts of this. Mostly I find them attention seeking gets in the way more than anything. to give an example of a recent thing.

Met this girl online, I was a fan of her work and we started chatting due to me commenting on a post of hers. She was married and as such IO wasn't interested. But she flirted with me regardless. After a while of me not really reciprocating, messaging slowed and gradually became less and less. Then she found male "friends" to give her that attention she seemed to desperately crave and she stopped talking to me altogether, I'd get left on read or have my messages "liked". I eventually called her out on it and she tried to feed me some bullshit that I immediately poked holes in.

This was someone who I actually considered a friend and who I actually liked talking too but clearly what she wanted was validation and nothing else

[420Rachel]

This is why I don't really associate with men outside of my relationship, unless they're gay. Every straight "guy" friend I've ever had has been sexually attracted to me so I don't even associate with guys unless it's my coworkers, and that's only at work of course. Also I have some online guy friends but I don't think that really counts as you're not interacting in real life with them.

[Inbox]

Agreed - mother nature is ruthlessly efficient. A fact that certain enlightened people on GAG think they can beat. Friendships between the opposite sex can last for a while, but shifting georomantic situations are always changing. Sometimes, convenience is the better alternative.

[MrJMM]

If it's almost impossible then why most understanding and good people I know are girls/women? It is possible to stay friends without getting in a relationship or having a sexual relationship with them. One of the parents on a parent/student day was held at my school, this parent came in and said "Ah yes, those people over there will be a great couple" while I am like... yeah no, ok. He was pointing at two people I knew and they treated each other like brother-sister relationships including head kisses, cheek kisses, and a lot of hugging. I said "Yeah no, they're just besties with a different set of testies" and the parent got mad at me and yelled but I ignored him and left. I am just saying it is possible to be just friends without any sexual intentions or romantic intentions.

[TruthBringer]

"If it's almost impossible then why most understanding and good people I know are girls/women?" this question is misplaced as the Take doesn't question whether girls/women can be good and understanding people. It is about the controversial issue that men and women often not being able to be platonic friends due to the factors I've discussed in the Take. The rest of your comment is quite irrelevant to the Take aswel, sorry to say. Did you even read the Take? I'm started to doubt you did.

[exitseven]

Yes, it is difficult and complicated for a guy and a girl to be just friends. I had a few female friends. One of them I considered my best friend for a while. Yes, sexual attraction was there at times. At times I would wonder about being with her and she told me that she did the same thing about me. We never wondered at the same time. I think if we did both want to make it more than a friendship at the same time, it would have happened.

[AD240pCharlie]

I'm sorry but it's 100 % possible to find someone sexually attractive while still not wanting to fuck them. My oldest friend is female and I can certainly admit that she's a very beautiful woman but if I properly try to imagine what it'd feel like to actually have sex or be in a relationship with her I quickly realize how it's something I wouldn't really want.

[TruthBringer]

Anything that is possible is a 100% possible. Just like anyone has the 100% possibility to become a certain something, but whether it will actually happen or work is a different story. Feel free to disagree, but if you're going to comment in disagreement, make sure you properly refute the points I've mentioned rather than just discard them only to put forth your own narrative.

You're not the first person to bring personal situation as an attempt to debunk anything I've said, which actually is meant towards the general public. And we all know that exceptions never make the rule.

[EssenceOfLight]

Friendship with a girls is like mutual giving and taking. If you're presentable they use you often as company at parties and you use them for being introduced by their friends which are mostly girls. As teenager and in early twenties was it easy but it became more complicated with steady partner and wish for stability.
I have not much contact with my earlier female friends, however keeping them in your reach isn't a stupid strategy. You will never know if you need them someday.

[TruthBringer]

Interesting, I personally didn't really had them introduce me to other female friends of theirs. Most of the time, we had mutual friends. Other than that, I have no problems meeting girls on my own so I don't need a female friend to open that door for me. I agree that keeping in touch with a female friend is not bad. However I would do that on the condition that it is platonic as well as that friendship adds value to my life

[CasaNorba]

impossible it is, the only friends and man and a woman can ever be is "fuck buddy"

[TruthBringer]

I wouldn't say "impossible", just not possible for MANY if not most out there. Hence why there is much doubt and objection to having a partner with (lots) of cross-sex "friends". I don't seek women who have male friends, especially those who surround themselves with them. Because it always had lead to problems from my own experience and observation. My girl didn't have guy friends when we got together and I'm telling you, it is GREAT not to have that unnecessary drama

[ManOnFire]

Extreme facts on the part about women keeping these guys around as backup and getting that boyfriend energy. Facts through the roof.