Why do most guys feel entitled to a chance?

[udolipixie]

Yes women are less visual than men but they're not blind it's just that men value looks more than women so women are more capable of compromising on looks.

The way women and women compromise on looks is different.

Women compromise by getting an unattractive guy instead of an attractive one.

While men compromise by getting a less attractive woman (above average/average) instead of a more attractive woman (hot).

Why do guys feel that a girl should give a guy she's not attracted to a chance?

Especially since they don't approach women they find physically unattractive & sexually unappealing to see if she'll treated them nicely so you let that attraction grow.

I find it odd how guys approach based on attraction but don't want to get rejected based on attraction.

Or how guys think a girl should forgo attraction because he'll treat her well when they don't forgo attraction for a girl who'll treat them well.

A few of my girls date nerds because they're safe.

Odd relationship to be in when one partner feels no physical/sexual attraction but the other does.

2 of them have grown to be attracted but that attraction is intimacy based and they feel no sexual desire for the guys.

[Little-Hippie]

This actually isn't such a bad question.

As always, I try to answer with the utmost honesty.

Although, I have to warn you, this is going to sound INHUMANELY Chauvinist.

You're certainly correct. Men are definitely more visual than women. So much so, that this a woman's appearance makes up a large percentage of a man's attraction to her, greatly overwriting such traits as intelligence, ambition, career status, mental-emotional depth, a lot of things. It's honestly about 88% physical, 12% everything else.

Women are certainly visual creatures as well. However, when evaluating a male prospect, they pay far more attention to non-physical traits than a man ever would.

Why?

Because non-physical traits in a man affect his experience with a women far more than those same non-physical traits in this women will affect his experience with her.

When a women evaluates a man's eligibility, It's probably about 50-60% physical, depending on who she is. The other 40-50% is comprised pretty evenly of other things like, his charisma, future goals, career, hobbies, personality, intelligence, habits, disposable income, sexual experience, and so on.

So, assuming that the woman is attracted to the man, the absence of any of these secondary traits will put a large and evident gap in the compatibility of the two. That is because she is looking for a large number of things that he as to offer in addition to physical attraction. And these things matter significantly. So much that women are often willing to compromise the physical attraction portion of their criteria if other traits are present in bulk.

Now, Why aren't men willing to compromise the physical portion of their criteria for women with strong secondary traits?

Probably because when we're talking about non-physical traits that the opposite gender can actually appreciate, women have less to offer men than men have to offer women. Women look for far more in a man than men look for in a woman.

So while a man may approach a women who is a good deal more physically attractive than he is, he man feel that his other traits more than make up for it, so he deserves a chance to give her an ultimately higher portion of her criteria.

Because physical attraction makes up such a high portion of a man's criteria, even if a women had every non-physical trait that he looks for, she would only make up 12% of his criteria if he was not attracted to her. And 12% is a REALLY low F.

This is why when a guy gets self conscious before a date, he's thinking "Man, I hope she doesn't think I'm boring, or awkward. I hope she doesn't mind that I only make 25k, or that I don't have my degree. I hope she doesn't think I'm a loser for living with my parents."

But women are mostly thinking "I hope he thinks I'm pretty, interesting, and classy", But most of the pre-date prep is hair, make-up, outfit. Whilst guys to to work on what to say and do.

He has to show her a good time, where as she just kind of has to look pretty.

[Aeromir]

Mostly to annoy shallow chicks who will end up old, alone, and sad, with a house full of cats.

News flash, people are all DIFFERENT. There are people out there that think amputees are sexy, there are others who find extremely obese men and women sexy. There is such a variety of what people view as sexually appealing, that you can't make judgments based solely on what your views are. My wife has stunning blue eyes, strawberry blond hair, and extremely fair skin. All very sexy to me. But I would imagine that someone who likes brunettes with tan skin and green eyes wouldn't find her so appealing. I think that her hair is cute when it gets frizzy from the weather outside, some people might think it looks ridiculous.

Grading people on looks is something that children do, you need to grow up. That "nerd" with the great personality might not be sexy to you now, but down the road he will still be a good man, whereas your looks will fade, and your personality will be just as crappy as it is now. Enjoy your shallow life while time is still on your side.

[udolipixie]

WTCupcake?

Did you read the details or did you just assume stuff?

Who said anything about grading on looks?

I'm talking about guys who approach on rejection but don't want to be rejected based on attraction.

Guys who want a girl to judge them only on character but they judge on looks & character.

Guys who feel entitled to a chance with a woman they find attractive because they are nice or will treat her well despite the fact she doesn't find them attractive.

[Anonymous]

Male privilege. It's a man's world so they think they should get all the benefits of picking and choosing the best women, and that we women should be happy to be chosen. They don't like when women exercise our options because that may mean that they don't get chosen. A lot of guys think they are entitled to any woman they're attracted to regardless of how she feels about it. Most guys will never admit it, but this mentality shows itself when they get rejected. A lot of guys think women are put here for their amusement and disposal so we "should" compromise and go for a guy even if we're not attracted.

I had this argument with my dad when we were talking about what kinds of guys I liked. I told him I'd rather be single than settle for a man I'm not attracted to again. Seriously I would! I've settled for an unattractive guy before thinking that maybe it wasn't a bad idea and I just ended up resenting him and dumping him later because I could never force attraction that wasn't there. I don't care what his personality is like, if I am not physically attracted to him we are not dating. It's not fair that he gets a partner he's attracted to while I have to close my eyes and pretend he's actually good looking. Never again!

[udolipixie]

Only answered that explained why.

SnackG explained why they think they should be given a chance but not why they feel entitled tonit.

[goflipaburger]

I think in a way, she does explain why they do. Nothing is ever for one reason, but I think one of the big things to look at is the effect being privileged has on them. Because they know they're privileged, they hold that to their hear as if it's some sort of valid badge that guarantees something, and if you violate that guarantee you're a bitch.

I think a bunch of it has to do with society and how men handle and perceive themselves. I'd go so far to analyze how this self entitlement plays into

[goflipaburger]

why feminism has such a hard time winning men over. Aside from not actually knowing what it is, once they do and often agree with it, some still refuse to call themselves feminists or even egalitarians simply because it infringes on this unquestioned privilege by providing equality.

So I think this is a great response as to why they feel entitled. They feel so because they are simply privileged. And they expect these privileges to continue simply because they exist.

[udolipixie]

@goflipaburger

That's just sad.

What's sadder is that it seems to be true.

[c7777]

wow you girls have a distorted mental picture of men. Your all forgetting one thing. women CHOOSE who they accept. If your not choosing someone your not attracted to I've never heard of guys ripping on you for that unless your like he needs to be 100% perfect with 0 flaws. you girls are clearly just not attractive yet expect hot guys to come to you. Pretty sad, because yes some guys are like that like you all said, but clearly there's GIRLS LIKE THAT TO... YOU!

[udolipixie]

WTCupcake?

". you girls are clearly just not attractive yet expect hot guys to come to you. "

no just no.

This is about guys feeling they deserve a chance with a girl who is not attracted to them.

What are you talking about?

[c7777]

well the only reason you wrote this question is because your not attracting the guys you want (the hot ones and rich ones) Might be time to take a hard look into the mirror

[udolipixie]

Wrong on that.

I attract plenty of hot guys, rich guys, hot & rich guys but none of them are sweet or nice.

How does not attracting the guys I want relate to this question?

This is about guys who whine that girls should give them a chance.

Once again this is about "guys feeling they deserve a chance with a girl who is not attracted to them."

How does whatever you were assuming come into play?

[arashmenalagha]

you are correct. +1

[Tony_1693]

You realize that most men don't really operate in the way in which you are suggesting? Dating someone unattractive was nobodies mistake other than your own. It's common sense that you have to be attracted to your partner. Nobody forced you to date him.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but I just can't stand this victim entitlement that women play making comments like, it's a man's world. That's so far from the case. If you're American, than you have just had much opportunity that as a man has. Women have the upper hand in dating due to our biological roots of women being the more selective sex. Don't feed me this victim card if you're living in a developed country. It's so far from the truth.

[Uhhjsshshdh]

Stupid feminazi

[goflipaburger]

I'm honestly too lazy to respond at this hour, which is mainly my fault but whatever.

I considered not even answering but your comment about dating nerds for security is really immature. It's a little upsetting that anyone would be so selfish to seek security but not bother to really return it; rather, you provide a false sense of security for the sake of your own. It's a very utilitarian and selfish way to be. (I mean you're friends, excuse my laziness)

I find it odd that your friends approach men based on security, but don't want to risk their own and put yourself in the situation where one partner isn't genuinely interested.

And I think THAT is by far more troubling than a guy seeking to boost his own ego by being with someone, because at least they're trying and not making someones life an unknowing nightmare.

[udolipixie]

I agree about the immaturity.

I think both are equally bad though.

[goflipaburger]

One is ethically wrong, the other is just self entitlement. They can feel as entitled as they want, I'm still not settling if I don't feel like it, regardless of how much they moan about it. But to hide something like that... goodness :( to date someone simply because its safe is rather upsetting, hypocritical, and wrong.

[udolipixie]

hypocritical? how?

wrong? how?

I can see upsetting.

Not the rest.

[goflipaburger]

To merely date someone for the sake of security? It's hypocritical in that they expect to be made secure when they don't even return genuine feelings, thus providing no security for their partner. You shouldn't date someone for security, you should date them because you like them.

[udolipixie]

It's not hypocritical to date for security when the girls provide security as well.

You don't need feelings to provide security.

It'd make more sense to say it's hypocritical because they are dating someone who likes them but they don't feel the same.

To me it's not that bad. Ignorance is bliss.

They're loyal and nice so it's all good.

[Anonymous]

A lot of guys just have a sense of entitlement and simply don't care how the woman feels as long as he gets what he wants everything is good in his world. then when a woman comes along and shatters that fantasy by rejecting him he can't handle it and must think negatively of her to sooth his own ego

[Tony_1693]

Just sort of how we're programmed. Women are more emotionally stimulated in regards to attraction whilst men are more physically stimulated. Hormones and just our biology differences in general are the cause of this. It's not that men are so ever so evil and exist. It's literally nature.

I think I'm above average in looks but I've never really over looked this whole concept that you're describing. If I dig a girl, then I dig her. There's really nothing more to it. Sometimes I'm attracted to girls that my friends would disagree with.

As far as rejection... I've been rejected a lot lol. But that's also because I put myself out there so much and most guys aren't willing to be as aggressive as I am in my approach. I never took it to heart to be honest. It's much more fun to spend my time with a girl who's down as fuck for me rather than one that's not. If I was rejected, then I'd just walk away. No bitterness.. onto the next one. Everyone has their own taste and what they like and they're entitled to that.

I think you're over analyzing this concept too much. You're placing so much emphasis on attraction and sort of putting all men in this imaginary cut out of how you perceive things.

[SnackG]

Because they feel their personality is great, they'll treat them right, aren't a douchebag, won't cheat, etc. They believe that their strong personality is enough to triumph over their looks. I honestly think it's a load of crap.

I'm not sure how good looking I am since I've never been complimented in person(which makes me assume ugly) so I figure I shouldn't expect to get an attractive girl even with my personality. Girls on here tell me I'm extremely wrong and have a chance though. So maybe I am at least average and that's why they say that.

[udolipixie]

+1

*hug*

[SnackG]

:)

[Asailum]

well I don't consider myself that attractive, but women always have shown interest in me. that tells me that women can find a normal guy handsome based completely off his attitude. I'm talking about very deep profound sh*t here.. when girls talk about a guy being handsome or good looking, its a lot to do with his energy, his character(Most important), how he dresses and grooms himself, and things that are not so much about his innate body traits. That's how girls judge differently than men so what your saying doesn't really apply because its assuming men and women see things the same, and we clearly dont.

[BoobMan]

I think your premise is off. I don't think I'm "entitled" to a chance with a woman any more than a woman is "entitled" to a chance with me. I'll approach a woman I'm attracted to and maybe she gives me a chance and maybe she doesn't. No biggie either way as I'll approach other women I'm attracted to also and enough of them give me a chance that I'm fine.

Secondly, how is it possible that guys are either getting "hot" or settling for "average" women where women are eitehr getting all these unattractive guys? Shouldn't the averages average out? Or are you saying that women as a group are "more attractive" than men as a group. That would seem to be a largely meaningless statement since except for bisexuals there is no substitutability between men and women.

[udolipixie]

I never said they were getting these women.

I put they felt entitled to them.

Yeah women are more attractive than men biologically women improve appearance wise as they evolve but men don't.

[BoobMan]

Haha! Again, aside for bisexuals there's no inherent meaning behind "women are more attractive than men." Every woman falls on a spectrum between the 0th and 100th percentile of attractiveness and same for men. The distributions are the same.

In terms of "entitled" no one is "entitled" to ANYTHING in a mate. You get what you can negotiate and that's it. Don't like it? Leave! Find someone else. That applies to both men and women.

[udolipixie]

Exactly my point about the entitlement feeling.

[BoobMan]

Then we are in violent agreement!

[bellybuttonlint]

I actually don't think this is a bad question, even though some might disagree (mostly the guys).

I agree with the best answer, it's better to be single than to go out with someone you are not attracted to. It's not fair when one feels physical attraction when the other doesn't. I mean we all have the right to choose our partners and feel attracted to them. If I don't feel attracted to a girl, why do I want to date her? I am not going to force what isn't there.

I do think that a lot of guys think they should be with someone attractive...but so do girls. It's just plain ole' biology. That is something we can't fight. It's in our genes. Guys will persist on getting the cute girl while girls will hope to find a cute guy. They all want something in return from each other: beautiful kids.

[HonestAverageGuy]

We are stuck in the old mindset of pre feminism where it was tough on girls and also financially and you all needed to marry someone who could provide.

Another common one is we banged a hot girl or 2 and although we know we arnt that good looking we know through experience its possible.

We also see a lot of average looking guys with hot girls.

We also have something more to offer. It could be **** size, stability or money.

A lot of hot girls don't go for looks, a lot have low self esteem and want to feel pretty and safe with an ugly guy who at least has big muscles.

[Anonymous]

You would be surprised how many guys actually compromise a girl's looks for their personality. Some women are exactly like men in this topic and some men are exactly like women. Yes it's true, a lot of guys do look at a woman's beauty before giving her a chance but there are many guys who would pick a personality over looks anyday. Equally, most girls look at a guy's personality before deciding to give him a chance but at the same time there are a lot of women who would not compromise a guy's looks even if his personality is amazing (not to mention the guy has to be smokin' hot, not just above average) . Women and men are not as different as a lot o people think.

[Anonymous]

Well it depends on what you define as a chance. Guys are still expected to make the first move and ask women out. If I see a women I'm attracted to and ask her out and get a "no" then that was my chance. Yes it is my right to respectfully ask out a woman of my choice. Though as long as it ends at "no" the first time. I'm not asking anyone out twice. I've had women who I wasn't initally attracted to ask me out and I gained attraction to them after a while due to their personalities. I'm ace so no sexual attraction here. You can't hate that men you have no attraction to approach you when men are expected to approach. A guy harass you by asking you out multiple time feel free to hate.

[c7777]

Just because men so call 'value' good looks doesn't mean we act on it. I see as many couples where the guy is out of her league then vice versa. Even Patti Stranger said she was surpirsed to see that the mature women she has on millionaire mathmaker are a lot fussier about looks in their partners then the males... straight from a matchamakers mouth. I'm not sure who to believe here pixie doll bitch or patti stranger? hmm

[udolipixie]

B*tch? Why so hostile?

Either way it's still valued the reason it's not acted on is usually a lack of confidence or fear of rejection.

Patti Stranger? My girls and a few guys watch that show they say all the men get young hot girls while she tells the women to not be pucky and go for much older men instead of guys their age.

The guys who watch say that the millionaire men get the girls they want but the women have to settle.

How are they fussy?

[c7777]

ahuhuh well she said that in her last season I'm not sure what ones your watching. most of the girls on ther are looking for older guys anyways.. YOu obviously didn't watch one with a women named bryce. she claimed the dude patti brings has to be 100% PERFECT. Haven't heard that form any dude on there. Anyways girls are always the ones who pick apart others looks, so its pretty hard to place blame on men for that. All the chicks on my Facebook have dozens of pictures of there dream guys.

[c7777]

the guys don't have any pics of there dream women. Just goes to show you women are more likely to act on preferences that's all that matters. I'm just saying both sexes are guilty but sometimes it think women are definitely more so

[udolipixie]

Most of the girls that seeked Patti were looking for men their own age one even wanted a younger guy.

In each episode the guys expected young & hot girls but a single case of where a girl expects a dream guy shows more unrealism?

Guys pick apart looks as well it's not onky girls.

Facebook seriously? I've seen guys friend girls just because they were hot that's the same thing.

Don't guys have fantasies, p*rn, and posters of their dream girls?

[udolipixie]

Did you miss the double standard Patti threw where it's okay for the 45-year-old rich guy to want a young hot woman but not for the not so physically attractive rich woman to want a young hot guy?

By the girls seek older guys I think you meant the girls who applied to be set up with millionaires not the millionaire women.

[c7777]

ohoh you watched that bryce one did you? She was by far the most shallow out of anyone whos ever been on that show. YOur not very good at damage control pixie

[udolipixie]

Really my guys said all the guys were ageists..

So how was bryce more shallow for wanting the same things the guys demanded- hot & young?

[c7777]

wow your still not getting it. I don't want to argue anymore because clearly my iq is to high for you to handle

[udolipixie]

Really?

I doubt that.

Great way to sidestep your position.

Both genders are equally shallow but men are the only ones who feel entitled to be given a chance,

[Spontaneousguy]

It's just how attraction works for men. There are unfair aspects of dating on both sides. Think about it. If physical attraction drew you to a person, wouldn't you try to get the best looking person you can? While men like more physically attractive women, women like taller men or men with bigger builds. Some also like men with money. It's in a woman's genetics to go for the most dominant of the species. Which in a way is kind of strange now. We're no longer cave men fighting for survival. So how big a man is, is no longer important anymore.

[Jager66]

Is it really a surprise that men are biologically driven to prefer hot women over less hot women?

Don't confuse having hope being dashed into disappointment for feeling entitled, perhaps your projecting?



No one likes to be rejected for any reason its not a gender issue.

I know men in LTR's with women they do not find attractive, its a horrible way to live imo but its their life choice to do so. No one is accountable for their life choices but the person living that life.

[udolipixie]

It's not projection on my part as they state they deserve or are entitled to these gals because they're nice, good, decent, or would treat her well (usually an overestimation of such qualities).

It's a gender issue as I don't see gals feeling entitled to a "chance" or complaining how others won't give them a "chance" as I see with guys.

[Jager66]

they probably are over estimating them self's this is again something both genders do!

I have never in my life heard a single guy say even one time that they are entitled to a woman at all ever. they complain they can't get one and get mad about it sometimes and blame the women but that's about all.

the dislike of rejection is not a gender issue, no one enjoys it boy or girl.

women constantly bemoan the fact that they can't find a man who will commit. does this mean they feel entitled?

[udolipixie]

Feeling entitled to a chance because they're nice isn't something both genders do. That's something guys do.

I have heard many guys say they are entitled to a gals. Perhaps browse around the 'why can't I get a girlfriend/date' questions to see many accessible examples of this.

The dislike of rejection isn't the subject here. The subject is feeling entitled to a chance because you're nice and that applies to guys not gals.

No complaining about not finding what you want isn't entitlement.

[udolipixie]

I stated what is entitlement and complaints weren't it so that was some funny logic leaping.

Amusing how you try to make this a 'both genders' case when it's not as shown by how you addressing 'dislike or rejection'/'overestimate yourself' rather than addressing the 'entitled to a chance because you're nice'.

Understandable as it seems guys can't handle accountability or hearing any negative truths about their gender unless they can in some way rope in gals as well.

[Jager66]

"No complaining about not finding what you want isn't entitlement." and guys complaining "why can't I get a girlfriend/date" = entitlement but women complaining guys won't commit and only want sex is not entitlement.

isn't that a bit of cognitive dissonance? <--(that's rhetorical)

correct me if I'm wrong here: It sounds like you are upset that men are deliberately starting to treat women like crap to get what they want with no regard for the wants+needs of the women they take form?

[udolipixie]

I didn't say guys complaining about why they can't get a girlfriend/date is entitlement.

I said you'll find accessible examples of entitlement in those questions as those questions attract guys with that mindset.

You're wrong as owhere did I mention guys treating gals like crap to get what they want.

Do tell where do I sound upset rather than amused?

Also tell where did you get 'guys feel entitled to a chance' = 'I am upset guys will treat gals like crap to get what they want'?

[Jager66]

okay this is escalating much worse then I was wanting it to, I'm not trying to insult, hurt, dodge or what ever. I am trying to understand your point of view and from where I'm sitting its coming off as VERY one sided. Just looking to have a friendly discussion about the topic not trying blame or hurt the other.

[udolipixie]

You weren't trying to understand my point of view.

You were trying to make this a human issue not a gender issue when feeling entitled to a chance because you're nice is something guys not gals do.

Perhaps it's a one sided point of view because it's talking about something guys do and none of your roundabouts changes that.

[udolipixie]

So are you going to answer the questions based on the statements you made in this 'friendly' discussion:

Where do I sound upset rather than amused?

Where do you get 'guys feel entitled to a chance' = 'I am upset men are deliberately starting to treat women like crap to get what they want with no regard for the wants+needs of the women they take from"

[Jager66]

okay I must have miss communicated something so I'll try again.

men may feel entitled to a woman because they are nice, I agree with you on that. (this is social conditioning)

what I was trying to point out is that women feel entitled to men as well but for different reasons, because she is a woman and her sex has value. (this is social conditioning)

I think entitlement is to strong a word here but I can digress on that.

[Jager66]

Where do I sound upset rather than amused? clearly tone can be hard to interpret from online discussions so I give you the benefit of the doubt. the part about wondering if you were upset was me trying to grasp the mood of the conversation in what appears to have been an ineffectual way.

[udolipixie]

Seems you're backpedaling as you not once did you mention or point out women feel entitled to men as well.

You did point out overestimating and disliking rejection isn't a gender thing:

- "they probably are over estimating them self's this is again something both genders do"

- "the dislike of rejection is not a gender issue, no one enjoys it boy or girl.

[udolipixie]

Your only mention of entitlement in regards to women was you trying to say guys are complaining about not getting gals and that's not entitlement unless gals who complain about guys not committing are entitled.

"they complain they can't get one and get mad about it sometimes and blame the women but that's about all."

women constantly bemoan the fact that they can't find a man who will commit. does this mean they feel entitled?"

[Jager66]

i was pointing out what looked at the time like a double standard you may have been holding.

ie:

men complain about not getting women = entitlement

women complaining about men not committing = not entitlement

i was saying, use the same logic for both. either they are both feeling entitled or neither is. in this situation.

think about this it should be enough for you to understand what I meant if you want to. in any case this is moot we obviously miscommunicated so lets move on.

[udolipixie]

Seems less like miscommunication and more like you were twisting my words to suit your bias and projecting onto them as I clearly and repeatedly stated:

complaining /= entitlement

feeling you should get something and dictating what others should do = entitlement

[udolipixie]

Do move on and explain how guys feeling entitled to a chance because they're nice isn't a gender thing when:

- it's guys not gals going around stating they're entitled to a chance because they're nice

- it's guys not gals who are often socially conditioned that being nice means they deserve/get/are entitled to whatever they want

- it's guys not gals who are often the makers of the nice person gets their deserved/entitled chance with the person they want

[Jager66]

i was not and am not twisting your words! any bias I have I will lay out plainly as a bias for a balanced point of view, meaning an effort to understand both points of view concerning gender issues. I do not believe finger pointing does any good, that is my bias. what is yours?

i do believe you in your assertion of finding senses of entitlement from men but I spent some time doing a search of the site and found very few examples that were not simply complaints. just saying.

[Jager66]

the reason I'm even hear talking with you is because I wish to expand my understanding and I see your point of view as one that I will find informative.

[udolipixie]

I have no bias other than children/animals which aren't applicable here.

You seem fine with fingerpointing as long as it's not only guys.You were twisting my words as I did not say anything near 'men complaining = entitlement' as earlier established that complaining isn't entitlement.

Yeah clearly you wish to expand your understand and see my pov as informative by not addressing my point of view and bringing up irrelevant factors to do your roundabouts of it's a human issue not a gender issue.

[taster]

Pixie My Dear...I don't feel entitled to a chance...I let them apply to me...or I did before I achieved Dinosaurhood & Marriage...do you realize that I have not had another partner now for 17 years?

Turning down an application can have ramifications..can it not? oh dear...

[udolipixie]

Aww.

17 years? Do you mean long term partner? Or nothing at all?

[taster]

I will turn 54 on June 14th and my 16th wedding anniversary is June 30...will I ever get to c a picture of u?

[udolipixie]

Aww.

Maybe.

[taster]

LOL! Luve you Pixie! It will be a chill, drab summer without you to spice up my day...:(

[Jager66]

"Why do guys feel that a girl should give a guy she's not attracted to a chance?" I don't think she should unless she decides she wants to. Is this something that men allot? I'm asking because from the male dating perspective this is kinda a blind spot I think

[Jager66]

grr, didn't mean to post this a a new comment, was supposed to go under my previous comment..

[udolipixie]

It seems to be something men do a lot going by the plentiful examples of guys stating they're entitled to a chance and how she should give him a chance otherwise she's a stuck up shallow self-centered b*tch/sl*t/whore/c*nt on a pedestal and such.

The male dating perspective for many does seem to be that if he's a nice/good/decent guy then he's entitled to a chance to the gals he's attracted to regardless of whether the attraction is mutual because she's 'bad' as if nice is all that matters.

[Jager66]

part 1

hmm that's really f***ing sh*tty and I don't blame any woman for being sick of that behavior! no one should feel entitled to much of anything, Its a big problem we have today, I don't know why so many people seem to think its right to feel entitled to so much.

Nice is definitely not all that matters and I think men are in the process of learning that, the trend to be a sh*t to get women for one example, it's part of the growing/evolving process but not the end. This is part of a

[Jager66]

par 2

bigger movement we are starting to see stemming from feminism, which still has work to do, but separate from it that is pushing men to free them self's from their traditional gender rolls. Part of this process is awakening, that is the part happening right now, both women and men will have to make room for the coming changes and its probably going to get much worse before it gets better unfortunately.

[udolipixie]

Likely so many people seem to think it's right to feel entitled because society is quite narcissistic and indulgent.

It's not a trend to be a sh* to get gals as 'nice guys finish last', 'gals like jerks/bad boys/a**holes', 'don't listen to women saying they want nice guys', and such seems to have always existed. It's in literature, music, films, and poetry since way before this century. The instructions on how to be a sh*t is more accessible than in the past.

[udolipixie]

Amusing how you claimed " 'I am upset men are deliberately starting to treat women like crap to get what they want with no regard for the wants+needs of the women they take from" when nowhere did I mention guys treating gals like crap.

Seems you were doing projecting as you're the one who has this on his mind, the one bringing it up, and the one talking about it.

[udolipixie]

Seems you also have this it's feminism and moving away from traditional gender roles fault guys are treating gals like crap. MRA?

Treat gals like crap has existed way before feminism more likely the accessibility is a reaction from feminism as now that gals no longer have to depend on guys for financial survival gals can exercise their options and many guys are single now that they have to meet criteria other than 'have a job' and 'don't rape/hit me' so other guys see a way to profit on this.

[Jager66]

you do realize only 40% of men ever passed on their genetic code form children so this is nothing new, men being single life long. Feminism is a good thing imo! VERY important but also not complete. I am familiar with MRA's but I am not one they do not want a return of the old gender rolls I know that for a fact.

treat gals like crap AND treat guys like crap existed for a very long time, you won't find truth unless you are willing to see all evidence. do you disagree?

[udolipixie]

I disagree that 'treat guys like crap' has existed for a very long time as when it comes guys their treatment is :

- the way to his heart is food

- let him be a man (aka he's in charge)

- satiate his sexual urges

- be feminine (aka subservient)

- no nagging

Treat them like crap seems to be a norm notion only for gal one that guys support and perpetuate.

I don't see a norm notion that guys want to be treated like crap being supported and perpetuated by gals.

[Jager66]

yes what you listed is correct but is also a little incomplete, it is only the good parts of being a man traditionally.

men were also:

-responsible for their woman's debt

-expected to be willing todie at the drop of a hat to protect her even from a rude gesture made toward her

-to plow fields, hunt (very risky) to provide for her

-get on one knee to beg and offer jewels for her companion ship

-not worthy of woman until he can prove he is more then capable of being responsible for her

[Jager66]

traditional gender rolls were never about oppression they were about survival and when it came to choosing between the survival of a man or a woman the man lost every time.

[udolipixie]

My list is complete as 'treat guys like crap' hasn't existed for a very long time.

Neither the 'good' or 'bad' parts say that guys want to be treated like crap and don't want nice gals.

How is any of what you listed saying guys don't like nice girls that guys want to be treated like crap and if they say otherwise they're lying because it's biology"?

[udolipixie]

It's telling how again you evade the point "treat guys like crap" existence and go off on something else.

Traditional gender roles were about oppression as gals were regarded as inferior who were only capable of doing menial servile tasks and were the lesser role with no to little voice or input or control.

Women not being able to vote or own property when their male equals could has nothing to do with survival. That has to do with traditional gender roles and oppression.

[Jager66]

1st.

I'm not evading.

the subject is part of a much bigger issue that requires a greater understanding to explain the one much smaller question.

Must have lost you, we are talking about things that are directly related to your question but it seems you just don't know much about them, that's fine its my bad for assuming you did I guess.

to focus on one of the more basic points: Traditional gender rolls were absolutely not about oppression.

[Jager66]

they were oppressive, to both genders, but were not about oppression, they were about survival and propagation of the species.

[udolipixie]

You are evading as the subject isn't 'traditional gender roles aren't about oppression'.

The subject is part of a much bigger issue that issue being male entitlement and lack of accountability hence the justification of why they 'treat gals like crap' when they supposedly don't want to.

It does require great understanding on your part.

We weren't talking about anything directly related to my question. I know plenty of what you're talking about as in the traditional gender roles.

[udolipixie]

"Traditional gender roles not being about oppression" is not directly relation to my question about why guys feel entitled to a chance because they're nice.

'Guys treat gals like crap' is not directly related to my question about why guys feel entitled to a chance because they're nice.

You didn't lose me because you seem to never had me rather you had your own agenda of making this a 'both genders' case using irrelevant factors and going off one guys treating gals like crap.

[udolipixie]

Since you claim what you're talking about is directly related to my question.

I made a list showing that your claim 'treat guys like crap' has existed for a very long time isn't likely.

You made a list because mine was 'incomplete' so do tell how is your list:

- showing that ''treat men like crap' has existed for a very long time

- saying guys don't like nice girls that guys want to be treated like crap if they say otherwise they're lying because it's their biology

[Jager66]

it is directly related to your question because you have a strong bias in place regarding the answer to your question, so I am addressing this bias in order for you to understand the answer right in front of you.

[udolipixie]

"Traditional gender roles aren't about oppression' is not directly related to 'why do most guys feel entitled to a chance'.

You're the one with a strong bias as you came in with your own agenda of making this a 'both genders' case and not addressing the topic but bringing in your own.

[udolipixie]

LMFAO @ I have a strong bias.

Sort of like how when nowhere do I mention guys treating gals like crap yet 'I am upset men are deliberately starting to treat women like crap to get what they want with no regard for the wants+needs of the women they take from'.

I was seriously WTCupcake when you said that but now I realize you were projecting as you had this 'treat gals like crap' on your mind shown by how you brought it up, keep talking about it, and etc.

[Jager66]

it is a both genders case your agenda is to make it a male only issue thus exposing your bias to ignore the female roll in male behavior.

its a both gender issue because it directly relates to heterosexual sex, both genders have a roll to play picked by biology.

[udolipixie]

Cool so you admit you had an agenda and didn't address the topic but brought in your own.

It's not bias to 'ignore' gals role in guys feeling entitled to a chance because they're nice as again gals are not accountable for guy's entitlement and actions.

It's not a both gender issue as this isn't a behavior exhibited by both genders.

It's directly relates to the male sex not both sexes.

Talking about one sex doesn't mean you have to talk about both sexes that's you leaping for your agenda

[udolipixie]

It's not a both genders case as both genders aren't exhibiting this behavior as gals aren't going around feeling entitled to a chance because they're nice.

It's probably a both genders case to you because your gender is talked about and you feel butthurt wanting want gals to be held accountable for something as well.

[Jager66]

it is bias when you have a predetermined answer of: because guys want an excuse to be a**holes. this is obviously a strong bias, how could anyone serious about the subject matter claim such with any amount of honesty or fairness?! unless they had a strong bias.

you need to talk about both sex's if you want understanding becasue its a sex issue and sex and its effects on us is HUGE, if you just want a quick quip about it that reinforces your point of view then no further discussion is needed.

[udolipixie]

I didn't have a predetermined answer and you are obviously again word twisting.

Guys wanting an excuse to be was a**holes was my response to your offtopic about how 'guys treat gals like sh*t because it's what gals respond to and it's a growth process'.

You need me to talk about both sexes because it suits your bias and agenda and likely eases your butthurt.

[Jager66]

ps: I'm not butt hurt about anything and I have no idea why you would think that?! I find this topic endlessly fascinating and am glad you were willing to participate I just wish it could have been more discussion and less finger pointing but that's alright it happens.

[udolipixie]

Likely you are butthurt about this because you came in with your agenda own agenda to make this a both genders case as Iyou said I was incorrect to not blame gals.

You've evaded the subject matter 'why do guys feel entitled to a chance because they're nice', twisted my words, projected onto me, and backpedaled such as how you claimed to not be placing blame when just a comment ago you talked about blaming gals.

[Jager66]

i was saying its complex, I guess that's to complex for you to understand. no evasion, butt hurt, word twisting, projecting or the like happened on my end. perhaps some spent on introspection would be of use to you.

I was having fun for a while until I realized you are just playing games, I'll take responsibility for my part (baiting the troll) as I thought you would be a really cool person to talk to but for some reason your to close minded to have an open exchange of ideas.

[Anonymous]

Not all men think this way. Not even most men. I wouldn't expect, or want any girl who wasn't attracted to me as much as I was her. And I have definitely turned down women who were more physically attractive for the one who wasn't.

What you are saying is a small percentage of the male population. I know a hell of a lot of people & I know for a fact that none of them think that all women deserve to be with them, not at all.

If you are always attracting these guys then it has something to do with you & your personality.

[udolipixie]

It is most guys as it seems to be a common complaint of guys take this site for example and the many whines of "nice guys". Though this mindset seems to be most common in unsuccessful guys.

I know a hell of a lot of people to in various states and countries though this seems to be an American guy thing.

It's not me or my personality as I'm not attracting these guys I'm observing guys and these are the guys that make up the majority.

[fsu19]

I may disagree with "most" guys, but it may be similar to the reason why rape occurs so often. Some men are raised to believe that they deserve what they want. What you describe sounds like the unattractive guy that hates women because he can't get any. That's not everyone, but those guys simply are miserable and believe that they should get a free pass in life.

[Anonymous]

Omg girl you just said something here. Lol I totally agree with you. Men like that are just pathetic hypocrites.

[Anonymous]

Do women really value looks that much less, or is it just that women value relationships more than men (and therefore get more desperate?)

[udolipixie]

That's a factor too most women know you have to compromise on looks to get a healthy relationship.

I don't know if that makes them desperate though.

[Anonymous]

Also, on you saying "that whole guys don't approach hot girls is bs." you have no idea, you're not a guy, and you're assuming you're hot, maybe you just look easy, who knows. its probably all in the behaviour..

[Anonymous]

Why do guys feel that a girl should give a guy she's not attracted to a chance?

Probably for the same reason girls feel a guy should give in to her demands and get free things just because she flashes her goodies. They are both stupid.

Both the guys and girls in this situation are probably offering things that are either not attractive (at least by themselves) or they feel they are being insulted by what's being offered to them.

[AndyKoenigs]

That's because WOMEN ARE NO DIFFERENT WHEN IT COMES TO SEXUAL ENTITLEMENT! Elliot Rogers is the exception, not the rule.