Women Haven't Lost Their Femininity: They Never Had A Choice In Defining What It Was

It used to be that women were defined by the contributions to the family and household. Today women (and some men) are trying to reshape what they are defined by. Today, we have men (and some women) screaming from the rooftops that women have lost their femininity. I call B.S. The previous definition of femininity was one that women of generations past were not able to define, not without being labeled agitators and family killers. This isn't to say that women weren't content or even happy with the roles they had but here's the thing and there's really no way about it: We don't know what we don't know and these women, based specifically and strictly on their lack of access to things that could give them a different perspective, were sheltered. What's more, their husbands and fathers, who benefited from their roles, would just as soon keep the roles of women unchanged.

Women Haven't Lost Their Femininity: They Never Had A Choice In Defining What It Was

Today, we criticize women for not being able to be homemakers, cooks, maids, wives, and wage earners at the same time. Perhaps they can be. I know a lot of single mothers who play each of these roles with the exception of wives. Perhaps they can't without significant stress. The real question isn't whether or not they can, it's why they should be expected to and why we choose to criticize them when they try.

Of course, the answers to these questions are simple. They should not be expected to but who else is going to cook and clean and play wife? (Insert eye roll) We criticize them when they try because we feel as though the re-defining of their 'roles' makes life harder for others who, again, benefit from their traditional 'roles'.

There will be a new normal eventually. For starters, today's younger men, to a far greater degree than those who came before them, are growing up with a different understanding and expectation of women's roles. As well, women aren't simply standing pat or lying down when someone challenges their roles, their confidence, etc., they're more emboldened. I love this, by the way. You teach people how to treat you by virtue of what you expect (equality) versus what you accept (inequality).

I just wish that we would stop suggesting that women are redefining feminism, as if they ever really had a choice in how it was defined to begin with.

And to those who will comment that the way it was made the family better, I reply in kind: Better for who?

Women Haven't Lost Their Femininity: They Never Had A Choice In Defining What It Was
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Most Helpful Guy

  • Phantomium

    While I have intention to judging anyone for their lifestyle choices and opinions I can't understand the fascination of Westerners (the US more specifically) with charging blindly into the brave new world ideas where everything old must go regardless of it's good qualities and the new must be enforced regardless of consequences. I have no doubt women didn't have it easy in the past, but then again nobody did. The old order was born out of necessity and it worked because it was "natural" - division of labor, specialization, rights-obligations balance, etc. I'm certain it wasn't perfect but much like classical liberalism it worked because it was efficient. And now everyone rushes to redefines femininity, masculinity, genders, roles and everything they can get their hands on without a single though of how thing will change the big picture and humanity's future. Hubris is a dangerous thing and the West is drowning in it while tearing down traditions and ideas that have stood for millennia.

    • MazeOfLove

      My only comment here would be that just because traditions and ideas have stood for millennia doesn't mean that they are/were good ideas.

    • Phantomium

      There are no perfect solutions. There are only solutions that work better or worse then the others. What if the new ones bring along horrible consequences? Everyone can already see people dividing themselves, the fabric of society tearing itself apart. Shouldn't at least we stop for a moment to consider what will follow or are we changing things just for the sake of change.

    • MazeOfLove

      But is the fabric of society tearing itself apart because some people just don't like the changes? That doesn't make the changes wrong. I liken my view to the power of freedom and why so many people will fight to the death for it. While war tears countries apart, kills thousands, etc., people ultimately partake in it because they believe in their cause. The importance of standing up for who you are (women in this case) is more important than considering what will follow. If women stopped seeking equal pay, etc. for the sake of society, they would be living the exact society that is denying them the equality--this isn't right.

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Most Helpful Girl

  • dragonfly6516

    I grew up in a home where the man did most of the cooking, because he was better at it, plain and simple. My father also did most of the cleaning because my mothers job was more demanding, more stressful, and took longer hours. Of course, not the situation is flipped and she's just being a lazy botch... but that's off topic.
    The man I'm with now was raised by a mother who literally owns a cleaning business, and she cooks a dinner every night from scratch. So my man is clean freak who loves to cook, just like my father.
    How are the men who literally enjoy cooking and cleaning supposed to do what they love if other men are trying to force outdated ideal of women onto them and calling these men derogatory things like "submissive", "hen-pecked", "weak", or "not manly"?
    And yes, some people DO enjoy cleaning, because it cane be very therapeutic.

    • MazeOfLove

      They're supposed to ignore close minded people who associate their gender with supposed roles. I'm sorry he's ridiculed and judged for this. People can be close minded.

    • Oh he isn't :-) He's a very confident dominant personality type that gives no fucks, and people respect him. But others aren't so strong in their self image, and make themselves an easy target.

    • BlueCoyote

      I totally agree. I was also raised by parents who shared the work pretty evenly. My mom did do a little more of the house chores but my dad always spent a lot of time with us children, which is also commendable I think. For example on the weekends when my mom wanted to have some time for herself, he would play board games with us or take us for a walk in the forest or to the zoo etc.. He was also really good at reading goodnight stories for hours and hours (we always wanted more ;-)).
      This is an important part of feminism that all the morons and male crybabies who feel suppressed by women don't even understand: feminism didn't just enhance women's rights, it also enhances men's situation by questioning all those old, stuck-up gender roles. Nobody should feel obligated to act a certain way just because they have a penis or a vagina. People should shape their life in a way that makes them happy.

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What Girls & Guys Said

1836
  • roamer

    Men “Haven't Lost Their” Masculinity: “They Never Had A Choice In Defining What It Was” “Today, we have” women (and some men) “screaming from the rooftops that” men “have lost their” masculinity. “I call B. S. The previous definition of” masculinity “was one that” men “of generations past were not able to define” “We don't know what we don't know and these” men, “based specifically and strictly on their lack of access” to independent lives and thought freedom from society, families and mostly women. “What's more, their” wives and mothers, “who benefited from their roles, would just as soon keep the roles of” men “unchanged.” “Today, we criticize” men “for not being able to” change a tire, bow down when spoken to, accept that they may be jailed for not keeping their wife happy, be homemakers, cooks, maids, hub-wives, and mostly “wage earners at the same time.” “The real question isn't whether or not they can, it's why they should be expected to and why we choose to criticize them when they” don’t “try.” And decide to say the hell with it and check out of society and do all the things that a freed man wants to do for himself. “Of course, the answers to these questions are simple. They should not be expected to but who else is going to cook and clean and play” hub-wife? (Insert eye roll)” “ We criticize them when they” stay single, become PUAs, isolationists, go their own way, drop out of society “because we feel as though the re-defining of their 'roles' makes life harder for others who, again, benefit from their traditional 'roles'.”
    “There will be a new normal eventually. For starters, today's younger” women, “to a far greater degree than those who came before them, are growing up with a different understanding and expectation of “men's participation in marriage, family, and society in general.. “As well,” men “aren't simply standing pat or lying down when someone challenges their” their new found independent freedom. “they're (the men) more emboldened” to do all the things for themselves. “I love this, by the way. You teach people how to treat you by virtue of what you” don’t “expect or desire. “I just wish that we would stop suggesting that” men “are redefining” masculinity, “as if they ever really had a choice in how it was defined to begin with.

    • MazeOfLove

      Lol! So women made the laws and wrote the bible and were the stronger of the two genders? Got it. Thanks for playing. Be sure to tip your bartenders!

    • roamer

      Why was the below woman's opinion removed? can't figure it--censorship?:
      Anonymous
      (25-29)
      11h
      No, women HAVE lost their femininity. Women were always the ones who defined themselves and took on the roles that fit with it. I mean, women have a natural innate behavior to act a certain way, so do men. It wasn't men who "forced" women to act like that, they just did. I know you want to blame all your failures and shortcomings on men, but you just can't. It makes you seem foolish.
      1|15
      7|1

    • MazeOfLove

      Yeah, I truly don't know, nor do I condone it.

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  • JuliaHarris

    Men never had a choice either. It pisses me off when people make out that men were living awesome lives and women were basically slaves. Men's lives were brutal and short for a very good reason.

    • roamer

      I predict this opinion will be removed like another woman's opinion that took this similar stance--

    • He's a white knight.

    • MazeOfLove

      @roamer who removed an opinion? I didn't.

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  • IceCubedude

    The world is going in the wrong direction , women are changing into something that men are hating, and how that affects us? well in short we are the ones marrying them so when they screw up by default we screw up as well.

    It seems to me that the west is fighting to remove any trace of old traditions regardless of how good or bad they are, if women refuse to be women/mothers and family carers anymore then we have a serious issue because that means children are growing without a mother, husbands are not satfisfied, and women feel empty and nothing can fill that void that they feel.

    Men and women are different, physically and mentally, they have their own ways of dealing with kids, they have different wants and needs claiming that they're the same is naive and ignorant at best , and it shows in what they ask for in a partner.

    Femininity is defined by men, we are the ones who can spot that femininity and we look for it when we want to commit to a woman, its not something a woman notices so to her it makes no sense, but to us it makes perfect sense.

    You are a dating coach, your goal is to maintain a battlefield of men and women, to step up your game and teach other men to step up theirs, and to do that women must be sophisticated and make no sense which you are ecouraging, you are encouraging a world in which men and women dont get along and they need to resort to games and tactics to date each other , something that never happened in the past.

    There is no right or wrong there is what works and what doesn't and we can all agree that with lower divorce rates, a more decent generation and better family values and of course gentlemen, the older generation is much better than ours, they were part of traditional families with traditional mothers and fathers and their ways worked.

    what we have todays are women demanding men with money and status and good looks while they are not offering anything in return besdies sex (if the man is lucky) and her job, but thats not enough to keep a family together, this is why the divorce rate is so high and cheating is the new trend.

    • MazeOfLove

      I'm actually not a dating coach, I'm a relationship coach which is about harnessing equal and authentic relationships. Dating coaches focus on dating specifically.

    • Pretty dam much.

  • Since when are we criticized for trying to be
    homemakers, cooks, maids, wives, and wage earners at the same time? Who is doing the criticizing? id praise a woman able to do all that. I may criticize her mate tho.

    • MazeOfLove

      Women are oft criticized for not just getting back to the 'good old days', for being too independent, for ruining the family, etc. Google "feminism killing society" and you'll get thousands if articles and posts that talk to this.

    • I could google that or just google; ass backward mysoginistic redneck and find the same info.

    • MazeOfLove

      Except that established politicians, publications, etc are writing and saying this. As are other influential people and outlets. It's not just rednecks from the backwoods.

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  • First and foremost, the reason they could not define "femininity" is because its biological. Gender roles are nothing more then biology driven mechanisms. Unless of course you want to argue that having a womb and breasts for women is not biological but rather a social construct? Further more through out all of history there has been greater leeway for women then there have been for men. See women could do for the most part what ever they wanted, if they wished to work they could if they wanted to stay at home they could. For men there was no choice, they acted like the stereotypical male (funny you don't mention that part, where male roles are set in stone, I mean if we are going to go by the idea of the blank slate (which of course is completely wrong, provably by science and statistics) then this would be equally applicable to men which as any one could point out suffer a far more strict standard on there behavior then women do) or they would be exiled or killed. So this idea that gender is a social construct (even as all evidence shows its biological) that there is a blank slate (yet every one for no particular reason decided to follow these gender roles that do nothing but make them "miserable"(again despite all evidence to the contrary) and that it was all evil men who did it (despite the fact that men suffer to a far greater degree in most every area of life and thus would have no incentive to screw themselves over while making things better for women but some how its still bad for women even though statistically in all areas of life they are better off then men because "reasons") is quite honestly the most idiotic idea ever created. The most basic of interactions with women shows that they and men are different and that's before you get into the finer details. In fact your argument itself is an example of our innate biases and tendencies, men protect women so much so that they where very easily duped into believing that they themselves where the enemy (as these same men worked themselves to death to provide the woman with what ever she wanted and fought and died in order to protect her from harm) and needed to be punished (for expecting women to hold to some kind of standard as men where held to). As for this system being better, this is an objective fact, and for whom? Well children for one, they are far better off in these kind of systems then any other, and of course women themselves according to statistical data, they are happier.

  • nalaa

    Good take.

    But I would disagree that men necessarily benefited anymore from their wives staying at home than women did from their husbands working. On a personal level anyway. Institutionally I agree men benefit from not letting women get an education, job, hold office...
    But on a personal level it's a fair trade really I think. But most men these days can't hold up their part of the bargain so women can't hold up theirs. But it seems like a lot of men still expect them to

    • MazeOfLove

      I just meant that they benefitted from the perspective that men weren't required to do things (cook and clean) that they didn't want to do because women were required to do them. Yes women benefitted from their husband working but men decided who took what roles--not the other way around.

    • nalaa

      Well I think it's a bit simplistic to say that men decided

    • MazeOfLove

      A bit simplistic? Men were physically stronger (like they are today) and the laws protected them. Men made the laws (not women). The bible (which used to be a real source of authority) and was written by men, put men over women. These all show that men decided.

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  • thetundrawolf

    Femininity in past was never a forced construct, as you imply. Rather, it was an acting on natural devotion. You may decry the lack of appreciation for said femininity by men, and that is on those men. Today, feminism is women demanding respect. Respect is never truly just given. It is always earned. The natural man appreciates a woman's natural beauty. It is neither defined, nor is it forced.

  • PlacentaSalad

    The question I have is why are we expected to accept the new generation of liberated women but they don't accept men who are not masculine enough? There's a reason why so many men look at the women around them and see just other men but with ovaries. And there's a reason why so many women look around them and see nothing but men that might as well be women. Everything is shifting and what it's going to come down to are women realizing that they absolutely hate being the breadwinners. That they hate dating "pussies." That men are not manly anymore and this is because women are taking that role for themselves. Men don't know how to be men anymore, or if they do, they don't want to because they're realizing that women are competing with them in everything and that there's just no point in even trying.

    Since it's drilled into their minds by feminism that femininity is inherently weaker, of course they're going to try to change the definition of it. And I'm not even referring to gender roles, you don't have to clean and cook and be a housewife to be recognized as feminine. There's plenty of women who don't exactly have femininity but are also housewives at the same time. These days it's all about rebelling against what used to be because for some reason, women have convinced themselves that they're nothing but slaves otherwise.

    The problem is that, by redefining femininity, they're reforming it into what might as well just be masculinity. So in a way, yes, they have lost their femininity because femininity cannot be masculinity.

    What people don't understand is that the majority of people that are complaining are actually millennials or just people who never actually lived through the 1950s or earlier. They have no idea how it was back then since they didn't experience it firsthand. It's obvious that women now are not the same back then, but if everything is apparently fine, why are so many younger men wanting it to return to how it once was when they have no idea how it truly was? It's because they want something different, something that might work better for them. Women like to pretend that society was not tough on men back then, only for them, but now society is even tougher on men and easier for women and that's just not fair.

    You also have to remember that ancient civilizations, like Sparta, failed because women pretty much ruled that society.

    • Noxifer626

      I mean, being fucked over by Macedon after a pyrrhic victory is a pretty big deal but yeah, it had to be the fault of those crazy feminists right?

    • Feminism was not necessarily a concept for Spartan society because its women had privilege and power to begin with. Women of Sparta were actually treated way better than women of other societies and cultures, hence why they could actually own and sell property without the permission of a male. They may have lost over 25% of their soldiers in the war, but Sparta was bound to collapse regardless. Spartan boys were taken at the age of 7 to be trained militarily and that's where they lived their entire lives. The military training meant that boys were much more disciplined to legislation whereas women, who were described as being very aggressive and obnoxious towards the males, were not, so women were more inclined to disobey the laws. This increased crime rate and poverty and there was also a decline in birth rates to name a few societal issues.

      Aristotle wrote in his book, Politics, why Sparta failed and it was basically because of how their society was run. He said the city was

    • (continued)
      destroyed because of a lack of "manpower." This is interpreted to mean that since so many of their Spartiates died in battle, there was nobody to protect the city, but that's not exactly what Aristotle meant if people read the book. Lack of manpower actually meant lack of male leadership and rulership.

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  • YourFutureEx

    I believe that staying at home should not be counted under femininity.

    Just like men changed as they're going going to wars with the other nations, women also started working outside of their houses. There's no role of gender here.

  • BlueCoyote

    This is an exceptionally good MyTake. Kudos!
    It's really a shame that so many young people these days (especially men) are so freaking conservative and outmoded again. They talk and think like people 200 years ago. And they even have the brazenness to go around claiming that women "loved" and "enjoyed" being treated like dogs. Because... who doesn't love cleaning after another person all day long only to be told in the evening by that very person that you're too stupid to have an opinion about world affairs and that sex is basically a duty, right?

    • Is that why feminists get along with Islamists so much?

    • They're treated more like dogs now, where have you been?

    • No they weren't treated like dogs, women have there own powers and also men do, naturally, when you start trying to remove the natural tendencies and make the whole of society masculine feminism occurs

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  • I-am-a-nobody

    Sorry, but the way it was DID make the family better for everyone (including the women).

    Now women are straining to 'have it all". And while women generally desire to find a "soulmate", they are MUCH less likely these days to have a lifetime relationship with a man. Is this really progress?

    So, now she is the V. P. of Marketing of ABC Widgets, but she has no one to share it with but her dozen cats.

    I could be wrong, but I think most women would pass on that.

    It's a rotten shame that our feminist driven media tells women they shouldn't fill a traditionally feminine role, like being a mother, because such menial tasks somehow 'diminish" them.
    I loved my mom, she was mother and not a whole lot else, even though she could have been. I love my wife, too. She pretty smart (smart enough to marry me, ha ha). But her main roles are wife and mother and that's just fine with my entire family, including my wife.

    Just remember...
    While women seek to be feminine, just remember they MIGHT just find it in a traditional role.

  • BluesBoy

    Well, I don't really care what Femininity is and if women don't like the definition and according to your "relativist" point of view then they should fight their own battle and write that kind of my takes, not you as a man.

    That being said, your initial postulate can be challenged, I mean it is an highly relativist point of view that you have meaning the definition of Feminity might change through history and depending of who define it.

    I tend to disagree with that, the definition of Femininity should not change at all wheter it is define by men or women, the essence of a concept does not change depending on whom research this definition. Of course, it's supposed to really seek "the truth" or in other word the real essence of the concept and not a false one which is going to benefit you.

    According to you concept that are link to women should be define by women, those link to men should be define by men and so on. That is not how it works and how you research "the truth" of a concept.

  • Jager66

    "Better for who?"

    It was better for women, better for their children, and better for society as a whole, that doesn't mean the ways of the past would be the best ways for now. Your post is absolutely riddled with falsehoods, good effort but very poor take.

    "For starters, today's younger men, to a far greater degree than those who came before them, are growing up with a different understanding and expectation of women's roles."

    This is one of the few things your got right but your conclusion about the changes is wrong. The biggest changes for women in the future will be the loss of power and privilege as they finally become equal with men. It will be a bitter pill for many of them to swallow but it will happen, thankfully.

    • MazeOfLove

      Opinions vary.

    • Jager66

      yes they do, some are false while others are not though.

    • MazeOfLove

      Opinions, by definition, cannot be false. Try and keep up. You talk about falsehoods and you see them as such based on your views. As any educated person will tell you, and this is a direct quote: there is no need to argue against opinions when they are recognized as self-reports rather than as claims about the real world. GaG calls this MyTake because, guess what, it's my take. And you have your take. Good day.

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  • JDavid25

    Women always had a choice.. Those roles didn't define femininity.. That defined a successful woman in society.. Women back then were just as strong, if not stronger than they are now.. They got to have a voice regarding them wanting to be more independent, and be equal with men.. Now, feminism today more want more than equality with men, they seem to want to pit women against men, and make it seem as if women are more the same as men..

    • I know, that's the friggin conundrum. You want to be your best as a guy but you have to slow down or you'll seriously hurt a girl. You can't win and in the meantime while you're hopping from one foot to the next, less shit is getting done.

  • Blonde401

    Fantastic take! Thank you so much. Let the downvotes rain ;)

  • SovereignessofVamps

    This is interesting... I nvr thought about nvr getting to choose the definition.

    • MazeOfLove

      I do women empowerment and relationship coaching and I very often hear people talking about how woman are changing what it means to be a woman but historically they didn't have the power, influence, etc. to decide who they were. Clearly, there were key women that helped changed how things are but by and large, society decided, namely men within society.

  • Berethor

    Gender and characteristics is not an matter of choice, some women are not feminine, but it's not have any effect on the concept itself. Also many of the gender roles had come from biological differences between males and females, and we can see those differences in many animal species as well.

  • Blitzkrieger

    I always thought women could define their femininity as individuals you know they can wear the skirt and the pants. Women have more ways to express themselves but now i have to going to think long and hard about this. I need to adjust my views.

  • Sometimes12

    I read in the comments that you teach women empowerment.

    If it's true that you want to help women feel empowered you would be interested to learn that the best way to do that is to teach them how Feminism got just about everything wrong. The ways in which women currently and have always held power and privilege, and the ways in which men suffer and hold little to no power.

    Every single women I have ever met who has done this has said the biggest thing they took from it is a realization of just how empowered they are. They say they have never felt more empowered and that it's a real lasting empowerment, not the fake kind they felt as a Feminists.

    Just something to think about incase you're genuine about your desire to help women be empowered and it's not just virtue signaling.

    • MazeOfLove

      I am genuine about it, an Certified in it and have won awards for it. But, there is more than one lens by which to look through this. And while some women say they feel more empowered, others have not. And by the way, I never said women weren't more empowered today. I simply said that we should not bash them for redifing a term they didn't have a hand in defining.

    • MazeOfLove

      And to your turtle/opinion example doesn't align with an opinion. Opinions are subjective whereas your example was not. Lol

    • This is a very strange conversation, I agree with you on one hand and on the other I also know how and why you are wrong. It's a great deal like talking to a religious person about how you can see the value in their beliefs but you can also see how much of what they believe is total bullshit.. If that makes sense to you? It's kinda like a preacher getting a preaching award, it's great for him and those in his community but it means nothing to anyone who doesn't share those same religious beliefs because it's based on a fiction, even if it is a fiction that many find solace in.

      If religion helps people then good for them I hope it works out, I just prefer truth over sentimentality. Then if I choose to believe in some religious concept at least I do it knowing I'm wrong but it feels good.

      to each their own I guess.

      Also I'm curious, how does teaching someone how they hold power make them feel powerless?

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  • bubbletrouble

    Never looker at it that way since there were priveledges that women (white) had back then you see. Non white women had it tough but not bc of gender but race.

  • Bandit74

    Well men never really had control over how masculinity is defined either.

    Personally, I don't want kids so I don't really need or want a house wife. As long as the bills, house chores, and yard work is split up in way that seems fair, I am happy. Having a girlfriend who is a great cook and enjoys doing it would be a major bonus, but I don't view it as a requirement or measure of femininity.

    The only conventionally feminine traits I really care about are modesty and having a pleasant demeanor. So basically someone who isn't loud/ bitchy and doesn't dress in revealing clothes or sleep around.

  • Stone_Fizzlebeef

    Better for the children who by and large grew up to be stable, contributing members of society. Children of single mothers are the most disadvantaged in life and very often end up in prison. Husbands and fathers had a shit deal, too, even though your feminist programming won't allow you to admit that.

    Husbands and fathers were subjected to years of soul-killing labor and jobs they hated. These sacrifices were made to provide for their wives and children because years ago before the industrial revolution, being a wide and mother was a full time job. No washing machine, no electric stove or oven, no indoor plumbing. It wasn't some patriarchal conspiracy to keep women sheltered, life was just that difficult.

    Also, women are trying to take on masculine roles (and fucking themselves up in the process), hence the accusations of lost femininity. Doesn't bother me, though. Makes it easy to keep them at a distance.

  • Nyx_85

    Women have worked since ancient times. It was really only the wealthy that could afford the wives to stay home. And even then those wives often had the duties of being in charge of the help. The ideal of the 'housewife' really didn't come about until after the industrial revolution. But somehow since then we've gotten into our heads that this is how it has always been.

    Given the opportunity many women have made contributions to society throughout history. It has been proven through studies that when treated the same girls do just as well as boys in mathematics yet they do worse when they are told they aren't as good.

  • Phoenix98

    Really so what about cultures were women were the true rulers?

    And no offense but that's kind of a load of BS if anything women have lost their femininity, women have always decided and defined themselves what femininity was and took on the roles that fit with it.

    And like @Anonymous women have a natural innate behavior to act a certain way, just like men. It wasn't men who "forced" women to act like that, they just did.

    We men never forced women to act femininely and women never forced men to act masculine it's just how we are it's own innate behavior and instinct.

  • ProjectBaby1K

    Male feminist? 😂 Sad. You'd think it'd be the opposite and older guys would have their balls on straight instead of the younger generations. Erectile dysfunction is hitting you hard ain't it?

  • tyber1

    Women weren't kept sheltered, they were kept safe. They didn't have the same rights as men did because men literally fought and died to get those rights. Women haven't had the right to vote for very long, but men didn't have that right for much longer than they did and when men wanted that right they got it at great risk to themselves. The women's rights movement didn't gain full steam until industrial labor became safer. Women in general didn't want to vote if it meant that they'd have to fight and die in a war, they didn't want to work in a factory where they might accidentally get their hand sliced off, that's not to say there weren't exceptions to that but that's how it was. I don't buy into this idea that women were treated entirely like cattle, perhaps when it came to marriage that was the case but not with regard to the division of labor and rights that come with being a full citizen. Women were (in general) content with their roles until the cost/benefit no longer favored them.

    • Berethor

      Good point, and many feminists still want to have rights without duties.

    • tyber1

      @Berethor I'm not gonna pretend everything was peachy for them either but they had a better deal than the men of their times had. But even today men are discriminated against and if it doesn't hurt women then nobody tries to change it. We still have to enlist for the draft, family court is stacked against us, and nobody cares until someone suggests that we make things more equal, then people get upset because the idea of losing any of women in a war is just oh so much more tragic than when it was just men. Women want things to be equal, until it means that they're gonna have to do something that is disadvantageous to themselves.

  • raspberry0416

    Thanks for this take. Women are capable of so much more than being home makers, and restricting them to that role is just wrong.

  • AllThatSweetJazz

    None of this applies to women more than men, but see how you make it about women anyway? That's toxic feminism BS. You're just women-worsting.

  • asheslee

    Thanks for a great read! I will be honest, however, and tell you that I hate the word "Feminism," though I am often called a "feminist." I am simply a woman who is not afraid to share her opinion. This should not make me a default part of a movement that I never signed-up for in the first place. I also hate the stigma associated with "feminism" and "feminist." This is part of the reason I reject both labels. Opinionated women are not all alike and the fact that it is socially acceptable to group us all into one category, "feminists," is sad. I look forward to the day when we will all be recognized for our uniqueness just like our male counterparts.

  • Browneye57

    Better for the kids. Children need an intact family - with a married mother and father, for the best chance of success.

    Men are who define what femininity is. Whether what they are doing is attractive or not. But you're talking about roles, not femininity, or attractiveness. I guess we have a different definition.

    And no, you can't do it all. Traditional roles are coming back in vogue because it works and generally people are happier that way.

    The strong independent isn't any more happy than the housewife from the fifties. Check out my 'Take on the alpha woman:
    www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a34931-men-are-simple-not-stupid-an-alpha-woman-is-always-gonna-butt

  • SuccessfulHornDog

    END WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE NOW !!! Anyone who doesn't support this is uncaring about their burden

  • Aconfusedguy90

    I don't agree, take a women and look how she lives her life, typically , she will like to live in the moment, make emotional based decisions, be more sensitive etc, all of these traits are great! They are amazing! But they are for women and not for men, women don't have to work hard, men do, and that's how it should be , i think there is a case for the grass is greener on the other side, or maybe our culture portrays feminine traits as a bad thing making women ashamed of there natural traits and striving to behave in a more masculine manner

  • Darkfairie17

    This is such a great take! :)

  • TiffyPuff

    I like this mytake :)

  • helloitsmethere

    THANK YOU SO MUCH!

  • Noxifer626

    You sir, win the internet!

  • lost_alice

    I love this take

  • Viranda

    Nice.

  • bamesjond0069

    homemakers, cooks, maids, wives yes please!

  • JayLiche

    I thought it said virginity i was like
    HAH.

  • Anonymous

    "Today, we criticize women for not being able to be homemakers, cooks, maids, wives, and wage earners at the same time."

    The only people who criticize women for this is feminist.

    Suggestion. Spit out the kool-aid before it poisons you.

  • Anonymous

    Dayum.

  • Anonymous

    I guess you have a point there! Woman's roles were defined for them- so they have never been able to define for themselves what it really means to be feminine.

    I guess if you look on the other side, using the same logic- men haven't been able to define what it means to be masculine either

    So for both we were told what it means to be feline and masculine.

    • Berethor

      Why the society decided to send an strong men to cut down trees and not women, let me think, how could the society come to the conclusion that men are generally stronger and better for those roles? I have no idea, oh wait, in fact I do.

  • Anonymous

    and the same thing can be said for men. There seems to always be people who have these unrealistic goals for both genders yet the REAL problem is when people act like their issues are important while overlooking the other side. what does it mean to be a ''man'' in your eyes? it seems almost every single thing a man does he may be criticized and its the same for women. People have their preexisting beliefs. EVERYONE has social stigma surrounded by them whether it be minorities, women and as many people hate to admit it, white men. The real question is will you overlook somebodies struggle? or will you just continue to make one sided takes?

  • Anonymous

    Women are a bit shit at deciding what femininity should be tbh

    • Cccgala

      Why the downvotes? Your opinion resonates reality.

  • Anonymous

    Femininity is overrated. :v

    • MazeOfLove

      Okay. And masculinity?

    • Anonymous

      That too.

  • Anonymous

    Most feminists want to be masculine and emulate the qualities of men rather than master the art of femininity. These women have been contorted in belief to reject traditional femininity as abhorrent, weak.

    • MazeOfLove

      No--they don't like what traditional femininity stood for or how it made them feel. So they're redefining it. This doesn't mean they want to be masculine--that's a very narrow perspective.

    • Anonymous

      Do you think femininity/womanliness and duty are the same?

    • I think because society was very masculine orientated and feminine traits weren't celebrated, women felt neglected somewhat and now have decided to start behaving as men.

    • Show All
  • Anonymous

    Better for the children. Children do better statistically when they're in the care of a family member while they're young. They're much healthier if breastfed, and breastfed kids statistically have a higher average IQ score. It has always been a woman's role to look after young children.

    As for a man, our role mostly comes a little later in their development. So what's best for the kids is for the Father to provide. for the family so that the Mother can stay home and look after them.

    For me and my girlfriend, this is what we've done with 2 kids (and we'll have more). At the moment I work 80 hours a week. I have no spare time in the week and I live for the weekends. She breastfeeds, which means I can't help with feeding. This is harder on us as parents. It would be easier for js to formula feed, put them into daycare and for us both to work. That's not what's best for the kids, that's what's best for us. Which is why we don't do it. What's best for the kids matters more.

    You only have to look at the state of modern relationship between men and women, the high rate of divorce and single parenthood (statistically very damaging to children) to realise that the modern way is bad for the family, that's why people talk about the old way being better.

  • Anonymous

    I read an article that was posted on huffington post, Washington post, Fox News, NBC, yahoo news, etc, the same article posted on all these news sources that talked about how women now have more independence and how they compromise more of the workforce yet the article went on to state that female happiness has decreased substantially even though you would think they would be getting happier since they had more independence ad equality, the study had been going on since the 1970s and ironically instead of female happiness increasing it has been decreasing every year until the mid 2000s where there was a substantial drop, it boggles my mind honestly the article then talked about how females are suffering more from alcohol deaths and suffering from alcoholism as well as drug use and mental illness problems which surprised me as well, it's pretty interesting when you would expect females to be happier but they aren't especially since the 70s.

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