I have to agree with the article on some aspects like communication and whatnot, but on the bad guy/ nice guy thing I think that's personal. Some girls like "bad guys" so to speak more than "nice guys" which I'd classify more as kind guys. There are some bad boys that are actually "nice guys" and really mean to girls in general like they're the "bitchy attitude" but in a guy and that's annoying to some people while others dig it... Still the being yourself part is always useful and very true.
Sure, jerks and domineering passive-aggressive guys can keep a girl for a while, but not for the right reasons. Pick up artists may be successful, but they get a self-loathing girl who's with him because she thinks she can't do any better. That's not success, IMO. But thank you.
This article is just great. I love it. Though there is a thing there I don't completely agree with you. In the first paragraph you mentioned the evolutionary pseudo-scientific explanations as an example of what this issue is NOT about. I think it has everything to do with it! There's this seminar I've been to where they say exactly what you say there and use social darwinism to back that up.
On the bottom line you're correct - this "nice guy" thing is a schizophrenic and devastating behavior.
You missed the entire point of this article. Plus, most girls don't place "looks" as a top priority, but it's insanity to ask people to date those that they are not attracted to. We don't tell guys to date girl they aren't attracted to, so fair is fair. Keep trying, but stop making generalizations that leave you bitter and ready to attack any woman who doesn't want to date you.
Both types may very well abuse a woman emotionally and physically, but while the "bad boy" may say "so what?," a "nice guy" may rationalize it or say it cannot be happening because he is a "nice guy." Or the "nice guy" will frame himself as being "better" than other guys, so due to the crap that other men supposedly dish out, the woman is supposed to be ever-grateful he is only an a-hole sometimes. Sick and twisted logic indeed.
A bad boy may pursue his dreams, be confident, never smother the girl, etc. Meanwhile a "nice guy" will sit around, maybe be passive in other aspects of life (never accomplishing anything) and may expect supermodels because they are "nice" (aka haven't committed any awful crimes or what have you). But maybe the "nice guy" is so angry, resentful, and entitled deep down that he doesn't have any bright positive qualities (let alone an inner peace/contentment ) that attract women.
Thanks. I only use that term because of what it's called. "Nice Guys" are like the "Bad Boys" in essence in that they behave in destructive ways. The reason why women go for bad boys is because they are more true to themselves, do what they want, and aren't clingy despite treating the woman badly or at least not treating her well enough.
The "nice guys," on the other hand, are insincerely nice, passive-aggressive, clingy, and basically worse than a bad boy in the dating world.
Great Article. Though I disagree with the nomenclature of "Nice Guy Syndrome". In my opinion, the "Bad Boy Mentality" is exactly the same in practice. This article strikes me as being more about honesty with your partner and yourself, and about healthy communication. I completely agree with the steps guys need to take in order to better communicate and be more honest and straightforward (there is a few I catch myself on), though I think that applies equally to women about their expectations.
Japanblitz: the point of the article is not to not BE nice, it's not to pose as nice then act passive-aggressive. You missed the whole point of the article.
Jager66: heh, you could say that they act like wet blankets. But what is game theory? If it's that pickup-artist stuff I strongly disagree that it's good to use.
Some women get suspicious of a guy whos nice from the get go. I'm one of the uncommon guys who is sincere and genuine in that. A lot of guys who are nice off the bat are either players or the insecure type "nice guys ". Yeah I've hung around a lot of bad girls . I've told by a lot of people I know, I'm perfect who I am , I've just been involved with the wrong girls who don't deserve or appreciated me.
I think you hit the nail right on the head. By no means should you misrepresent yourself for attention, affection, etc. The sincere "nice guys" aren't the ones who constantly complain about not getting anything out of their "deeds" or whatever. Very well put.
This article is kind of weird, "the nice guy syndrome" ...it's a paradox!
A big, f***in' paradox!
You see - I (and probably most of guys) want a girl who not only gives affection, but also can receive it, I don't want a girl who LOSES interest when she's treated good, I don't want a girl who wants the guy MORE when he ignores or/and abuses her!
But perhaps you understand something different with "a nice guy"
very keen article. Your description of the personality symptoms is spot on. However the last part about transforming is kindve weak. And to be honest, I don't think a girl can really understand what makes a guy turn into the nice guy or how to transform into a honest guy. In the same respect I don't think a guy can fully understand a girl(or will ever be able to).
Dont get me wrong, I really liked the first section of your article, its just the end that I found weak.
very helpful but we need to add a side effect of guys not being equal to woman such as feeling depressed of seeing woman bodies as sexier than guys what I mean is men feel woman are not turned on by guys bodies and feel inadequate and teaching guys how love themselves I see that in a lot of people. who feel inferior to woman.
I'm not going for any of this. I am a good guy but was a womanizer in the past so have been trying to make up for it with woman by appreciating them about what I like in them. All they have done is use it against me. In other words taking my kindness as a weakness. I'm so tired of losing what I have because of it. I am done with them because I'm to the point where it is disrespect to my gender and will have to resort to hurting them to get my dignity back for my gender.
This used to be me. But I had never been in a relationship before. Two years later and a girlfriend later, I'm a much calmer, confident man that has learned many of these ideals through that relationship and being happy with myself.
There are absolutely women out there who will not appreciate a genuinely nice guy, or use them and treat them horribly. I don't understand them or meet many girls who do that, but some are like that, sadly. :~\
It's hard to read people from the get-go, but I will get a bad feeling from a so-called "nice guy" then see the insincerity and actions pile up. If you are genuinely nice, maybe you aren't meeting enough people. Or, you may be pursuing mean girls.
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I have to agree with the article on some aspects like communication and whatnot, but on the bad guy/ nice guy thing I think that's personal. Some girls like "bad guys" so to speak more than "nice guys" which I'd classify more as kind guys. There are some bad boys that are actually "nice guys" and really mean to girls in general like they're the "bitchy attitude" but in a guy and that's annoying to some people while others dig it... Still the being yourself part is always useful and very true.
Sure, jerks and domineering passive-aggressive guys can keep a girl for a while, but not for the right reasons. Pick up artists may be successful, but they get a self-loathing girl who's with him because she thinks she can't do any better. That's not success, IMO. But thank you.
This article is just great. I love it. Though there is a thing there I don't completely agree with you. In the first paragraph you mentioned the evolutionary pseudo-scientific explanations as an example of what this issue is NOT about. I think it has everything to do with it! There's this seminar I've been to where they say exactly what you say there and use social darwinism to back that up.
On the bottom line you're correct - this "nice guy" thing is a schizophrenic and devastating behavior.
You missed the entire point of this article. Plus, most girls don't place "looks" as a top priority, but it's insanity to ask people to date those that they are not attracted to. We don't tell guys to date girl they aren't attracted to, so fair is fair. Keep trying, but stop making generalizations that leave you bitter and ready to attack any woman who doesn't want to date you.
Both types may very well abuse a woman emotionally and physically, but while the "bad boy" may say "so what?," a "nice guy" may rationalize it or say it cannot be happening because he is a "nice guy." Or the "nice guy" will frame himself as being "better" than other guys, so due to the crap that other men supposedly dish out, the woman is supposed to be ever-grateful he is only an a-hole sometimes. Sick and twisted logic indeed.
A bad boy may pursue his dreams, be confident, never smother the girl, etc. Meanwhile a "nice guy" will sit around, maybe be passive in other aspects of life (never accomplishing anything) and may expect supermodels because they are "nice" (aka haven't committed any awful crimes or what have you). But maybe the "nice guy" is so angry, resentful, and entitled deep down that he doesn't have any bright positive qualities (let alone an inner peace/contentment ) that attract women.
Thanks. I only use that term because of what it's called. "Nice Guys" are like the "Bad Boys" in essence in that they behave in destructive ways. The reason why women go for bad boys is because they are more true to themselves, do what they want, and aren't clingy despite treating the woman badly or at least not treating her well enough.
The "nice guys," on the other hand, are insincerely nice, passive-aggressive, clingy, and basically worse than a bad boy in the dating world.
Great Article. Though I disagree with the nomenclature of "Nice Guy Syndrome". In my opinion, the "Bad Boy Mentality" is exactly the same in practice. This article strikes me as being more about honesty with your partner and yourself, and about healthy communication. I completely agree with the steps guys need to take in order to better communicate and be more honest and straightforward (there is a few I catch myself on), though I think that applies equally to women about their expectations.
Japanblitz: the point of the article is not to not BE nice, it's not to pose as nice then act passive-aggressive. You missed the whole point of the article.
Jager66: heh, you could say that they act like wet blankets. But what is game theory? If it's that pickup-artist stuff I strongly disagree that it's good to use.
Some women get suspicious of a guy whos nice from the get go. I'm one of the uncommon guys who is sincere and genuine in that. A lot of guys who are nice off the bat are either players or the insecure type "nice guys ". Yeah I've hung around a lot of bad girls . I've told by a lot of people I know, I'm perfect who I am , I've just been involved with the wrong girls who don't deserve or appreciated me.
I think you hit the nail right on the head. By no means should you misrepresent yourself for attention, affection, etc. The sincere "nice guys" aren't the ones who constantly complain about not getting anything out of their "deeds" or whatever. Very well put.
This article is kind of weird, "the nice guy syndrome" ...it's a paradox!
A big, f***in' paradox!
You see - I (and probably most of guys) want a girl who not only gives affection, but also can receive it, I don't want a girl who LOSES interest when she's treated good, I don't want a girl who wants the guy MORE when he ignores or/and abuses her!
But perhaps you understand something different with "a nice guy"
very keen article. Your description of the personality symptoms is spot on. However the last part about transforming is kindve weak. And to be honest, I don't think a girl can really understand what makes a guy turn into the nice guy or how to transform into a honest guy. In the same respect I don't think a guy can fully understand a girl(or will ever be able to).
Dont get me wrong, I really liked the first section of your article, its just the end that I found weak.
this isn't about "nice guys" this is about wet blankets! most men who are nice guys are nothing like this.
there is a reason why game theory works, why don't you address why game theory is so effective in your next article I would like to read that.
very helpful but we need to add a side effect of guys not being equal to woman such as feeling depressed of seeing woman bodies as sexier than guys what I mean is men feel woman are not turned on by guys bodies and feel inadequate and teaching guys how love themselves I see that in a lot of people. who feel inferior to woman.
I'm not going for any of this. I am a good guy but was a womanizer in the past so have been trying to make up for it with woman by appreciating them about what I like in them. All they have done is use it against me. In other words taking my kindness as a weakness. I'm so tired of losing what I have because of it. I am done with them because I'm to the point where it is disrespect to my gender and will have to resort to hurting them to get my dignity back for my gender.
This used to be me. But I had never been in a relationship before. Two years later and a girlfriend later, I'm a much calmer, confident man that has learned many of these ideals through that relationship and being happy with myself.
Wow, what a horrible thing to say. I personally have had people close to me die of cancer.
Also, since this seems to be such a hot-button issue for you, you buoyant have no confidence, thus cannot get a date. Therapy is in order, buddy-boy.
There are absolutely women out there who will not appreciate a genuinely nice guy, or use them and treat them horribly. I don't understand them or meet many girls who do that, but some are like that, sadly. :~\
It's hard to read people from the get-go, but I will get a bad feeling from a so-called "nice guy" then see the insincerity and actions pile up. If you are genuinely nice, maybe you aren't meeting enough people. Or, you may be pursuing mean girls.