Do you believe most women are Hypergamous (or they marry 'up')?

[Toad-1]

Many people seem to believe that. For instance in this video she presents the example that a Man might become a millionaire and be happy to financially support a woman who isn't working, but a millionaire woman will not do the same for a spouse.

Another example might be a man might happily support a stay at home mom, while a woman wouldn't support a stay at home dad.

Can also be things like women prefer a man who can give her the best possible offspring, dating a guy who is pretty well liked, popular, or famous.

Yes I beleive most women are hypergamous

No i do not beleive that

[Lady_Frost]

I am starting to think, that my efforts for my mytake to convince men otherwise were in vain.

www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a50101-dear-men-we-don-t-want-your-money-get-over-yourselves-sincerely

We DO can be the moneymakers and many guys would complain, that we are independent (feminists?), who don't need a man. We DO can depend on the men and let them be the financial deciders and providers and we are labelled as hypergamous gold diggers.
This is just ridiculous. When will those guys make up their mind?
It's frustrating but then I can hardly say, that I'm surprised.

The reason why we are "hypergamous" is because we were made to be by guys like these. And who doesn't like free stuff and money? You'd be most certainly lying if you say you don't.

[Toad-1]

So basically it's men's fault girls are this way?

[Lady_Frost]

For a big part yes. If they are insisting on monetizing relationship like that like it was a business, then guess what? We start to think the same.
If you have to flash the cash to get a girl, then can you really expect a good woman to come to you or are you at least aware, that you get the kind of girls, that will enter in your life the same way as you attracted them?

Not to mention handling everyday things like a business especially relationships and making it all about the money leaves women very unhappy. But the truth is, that the women are following you guys because you guys are their emotional leaders. Make money the objective then guess what? Your woman will follow your lead and handle things like a business as well, adopts expensive tastes and lifestyles. There goes all the love down the drain.

I mean seriously. What ELSE could you possible expect from THAT? Just think about it.

[Toad-1]

seems like you're taking ALL the responsibility away from the women who do this themselves.

[realbiggrin]

Hate to say it but... yes, yes it is.

[Toad-1]

@realbiggrin www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2794404-the-reason-women-become-hypergamous-is-because-men-made-them-that

here you guys go, made a new question on this to talk about it.

[Lady_Frost]

You made it sound like I'm accusing men while at the same time trying to make women irresponsible. But it takes two to tango you know? It takes a gold digger and a sugar daddy to have a fake relationship based on the money. At the same time some guys choose to actually throw money at women like it's some sort of a ritual.
Also the way you worded your question makes it seem like a feminist said it. In fact I believe the votes would be different if you phrased your question and description a bit different with the details, that I have provided.

[Toad-1]

Whaaa... a lot of people are agreeing with you

[Lady_Frost]

And double the count disagree with it.

[Charleslvajr]

And for some reason an increasing number of people (mostly women) believe that stay at home mothers/wives need to be paid for their contribution to the household/family. So not only does the man have to pay all the bills to support the family (including said wife/mother) but has to pay a "fair" wage to said wife/mother (essentially $15/hour) for her to do her part for the family estate. If that's not a gold digging attitude you're going to have to explain, carefully, why it's not.

[Lady_Frost]

@Charleslvajr This is why I am career oriented, so I won't be draining any mans wallet.

[Charleslvajr]

That's cool. I like people who can take care of themselves. It gives everyone of maturity less to complain about and more to work with.

[Lady_Frost]

@Charleslvajr Indeed. Independence is not gender specific. Everyone needs it today.

[pineappleshortcare]

There are so many variables to this that I couldn’t even begin to know.

It’s hard to assume what is “natural” when resources and personal safety have been controlled by men for most of history.

Contrary to popular belief, women and children provided most calories/food in humans’ earliest existence through gathering - but men provided protein. But men have been larger and both more dangerous and more protective against danger forever.

Now that women are earning on par with men - if it stays this way for 100+ years, it’s be interesting to see what “natural” things are actually circumstantial. Humans seem adept at doing what they must to ensure the survival of the species, whether it’s what they would pick out of a magic catalog or not.

[pineappleshortcare]

Oops, I meant to put now that law and weaponry have evened out safety somewhat.

[pineappleshortcare]

There is also the factor that people are shown to date others in their social stratosphere. I’d be curious if the “marrying up” in blue collar societies is flip flopping as laborers (male traditionally) tend to lose ground in wages and job growth, while health care (female traditionally), tends to hold steady. These female nurses or even lower - lpns, etc aren’t usually pairing with CEO and stockbrokers. I personally know a lot of blue collar women who are basically supporting the family regularly, while the man brings home bigger but less predictable funds from contract work (drywalling, carpentry, concrete, etc).

[Izumiblu]

Those would also be considered gender roles.

I’m financially stable on my own, not independently wealthy. I wouldn’t mind if my guy wasn’t bringing home money for a while as long as he is making some type of investment for himself or the family or the community. Stay at home dad would not be part of that though cuz that’s what I wanna do at some point. Now if he just wants to work 8-5 and come home and goof off then no that ain’t gonna happen with me So I wouldn’t pick a guy like that. He and I would have similar values in this respect. By the same token I would never be with a guy just because he was rich. I’ll put everything into a relationship that I expect of my guy because I hold myself to an expectation not just him.

[Izumiblu]

And by the way this seems completely fair and reasonable to me.

[Toad-1]

it does, i dig it

[Izumiblu]

by the way, I say I hold him to an expectation. That isn’t entirely true, what he does he does of his own choice and that is part of why I find him attractive. He is his own guy and that’s how it should be.

[realbiggrin]

Damnit. I like you.

[Izumiblu]

@realbiggrin to be clear when I say I’ll put everything into a relationship I expect of him, that does not mean I expect to do the exact same things. Just that we should each contribute in our own ways.

[realbiggrin]

But contribute towards a common goal just the same. Such a simple concept isn't it? Amazing more people don't understand that if they're still about self they shouldn't be getting involved in a union in the first place.

[PrincessPie]

Yes, i do.
Its more likely that way round than the other.

[Toad-1]

you don't think men are just as hypergamous as women are as a couple people are suggesting?

[PrincessPie]

No, i don't.

[Toad-1]

Why not? in your opinion

[PrincessPie]

Just from what i've noticed it is more likely than the way round, from people i know, what i've seen etc.
Its more likely a wealthy man would except a jobless female than visa versa for example.

[Charleslvajr]

As has been my witness as well.

[PrincessPie]

Thank you 😊

[ThisDudeHere]

Although there are certain conscious as well as unconscious paths that both genders follow instinctively, I think that a person's actions should be first judged based on their individuality, not their gender. If a woman is hypergamous, that may not necessarily mean that it's merely because she was conditioned that way, raised that way or that it's in her instincts, but it could be because of life experiences. It could be that when younger she thought that being hypergamous would not be for her as she would marry for feelings, not wealth but perhaps bad experiences grew some apathy in her and thus she changed her mind. Who knows.

[JimRSmith]

I believe most women would like to be. I believe a lot of women feel they're entitled to it, particularly amongst millenials.

But plenty overestimate what they bring to the table, in this respect.

[Unit1]

Tricky question, tricky answer!
While hypergamy is an actual and common practice and despite me being completely disgusted about this practice I would say no, most women are not hypergamous.
My mother isn't (but she is obsessed about money-management like a gold digger would).
BUT!!!
Many women are hypergamous. Many women are also not hypergamous.
And at the same time, if the demand for pussy and the supply of dick is so high, would you really blame women for utilizing it while they are still young to get those benefits? I don't blame them but I don't want to be a victim or target of this for sure.

In the end I don't hang a price tag on my body unlike hypergamous females or gold diggers would. I would seek happiness with money being far behind in the back of my mind while also minding my expenses (how much does it cost to keep her?).

[Unit1]

Regarding your invite to your question, you have invited someone, who is planning to live a life without marriage and without kids...

[Toad-1]

Ok but you can still have an opinion on that concept I'm asking about.

[Unit1]

Sorry but it's really not my place to judge when I don't plan to get there.

[Toad-1]

Your choice

[SirBunBun]

Even though I'm pretty sure I don't, I see a lot of PEOPLE (so not just woman) do it. Even though for men it's more attractiveness than it is social standards.

Well hell, this is the internet so good luck flaming me. I can say I'm pretty attractive, and also happen to have the luck of being born into a rich family. But that is exactly why I waste away my time anonymously on the internet. I don't want any perks, I want to do it by myself.

For some people this will come off as irrelevant and stupid, but for others I hope to have given you a boost of confidence;

I by no means think highly of myself and honestly don't feel comfortable sharing this, but out of 50 people that flame and shun me I hope I can just help one. You are amazing, and you are appreciated.

[Ygritte_snow]

might be because as of now, more men are "higher placed" than women? not trying to start a debate on wage gap or anything haha just saying that CEOs (only 6.4% of the U. S.’s biggest companies (by revenue) are run by women - source : fortune.com/2017/06/07/fortune-500-women-ceos/) or directors or high placed employees are often men, while most women who work have decent, middle-wage jobs? which means most men make more money and are higher-placed than most women? maybe that will change when more women get to the top? I think it's already starting to change a bit, but that's just my two cents.
I don't know, just suppositions. I'm no expert x)

[Charleslvajr]

It's about time dedication. If you want to reach the top you have to be willing to put everything to the side for it. Family, fun, health, basically everything and I'm sorry (I don't mean to offend if I do) but most women aren't willing to do that and men are expected to do that.

[hellionthesagereborn]

The reason why women are not CEO's is because they choose not to be. They don't want to work the 80 hour work weeks, they want "work life balance" as they say which is why women opt for jobs with more flexible schedules that may have lower pay then high paying jobs that are also far more demanding. Its also why women earn more money then men when they are single yet when married men earn more then their female married counterparts by a significant margin. i. e its choice not "placement".

[Tdieseler]

What rock have you been living under?
Don't try to put sprinkles on a turd... we ALL know women go to where the grass seems "greener"... dont call it hypergamy or some stupid shit.
Why do you think most of them end up getting abused... following the trail of the wrong shit.
There was a recent dilemma question that asked women that:
would you rather have a man who was a millionaire and was in all ways abusive, or a man that was earning average and was still abusive?
only a few percent of women said they would rather not be abused, the rest said they'd take the millionaire. I was stunned.

[Onlythisone]

I believe all people are... No one stays with someone they feel is beneath them (or no one will stay with a person who feels that way). This isn't a woman man thing it's a human thing. If someone feels used in a relationship for long enough they leave, male or female.

[abond008]

Lets be honest here, a male doctor is likely to be with a female nurse the. A female doctor with a male nurse. Women compting for jobs means that some men will be left out so at least they do not need to be too demanding off, that is all we ask for, is to be reasonable. Lets not kid ourselves her.

[Onlythisone]

@abond008 are jobs the only indicator of a person's value? Or are you saying they used to be and since guys don't have jobs anymore they can't get laid? Of course some people are left out, a lot of people are on both sides. That doesn't mean people should be with each other out of pity, you find things you value in people, and you be valuable in return. No one gets anything without effort.

[abond008]

I am not saying... all what I say is I wish women and they are smart to be a bit more reasonable in their demands nothing more or less.

[abond008]

I am not Mgtow, not a redpillar, not manosphere. But these guys are losing their minds for a reason and it is good for women to know some men frustrations. Some of these guys are successful, get laid often and still have some resentment. So It is simply we both sexes understanding each other more to build healthier realtionships.

[WhistleForTheChoir]

Gross oversimplification. No one stays with someone they think is beneath them, but hypergamy means women marry up for social status specifically, offering their looks for trade, which is something that has happened in every society even back to hunter-gatherers (even though they didn't really "marry", but you catch my drift).
However, the inverse to this is that men try to marry women more attractive than them.

[Onlythisone]

@WhistleForTheChoir you can choose to see it as a simplification or not, I'm not here to do your thinking for you. You are still only looking at one side. "Beauty=power" but there are a lot of other forms of social status, and beauty by itself is actually detrimental to status, i. e. poor and beautiful without protection and you'll be passed around. You see the trade only from the female side but the same trade is on both sides for different types of status. Females trade for status that grants protection in the form of money, or strength, or commitment. Men trade for status in the form of power, something that makes them look stronger to other men, a beautiful woman, doting, compliant, but they also use other symbols because it's more about posturing than protection. A nice car, fancy watch, muscles... These things aren't for women they are to project an image to other men that you can't be fucked with. The goal is the same the methods just different.

[WhistleForTheChoir]

@Onlythisone Well, I think there is a difference between women (who historically had very little or no agency) marrying men of higher castes, classes and social groups, and men essentially making a beautiful woman into an accessory. Hypergamy refers specifically to the human tendency to try and gain the affections, protection and commitment of someone of a higher status. For a very clear-cut example of stratified statuses, think of India's caste system. All societies have this stratification to some extent, but that would just be a very rigid, obvious example. Also, you are right and I did mis-speak. Hypergamy is not an explicitly female phenomenon; however, viewed through the lens of a patriarchal society it pretty much always has been in practice. For most of human history a woman's choice of husband was her only chance to advance her status at all. And just to be clear, I don't think beauty=power, but it's the only bargaining chip when women are seen as objects.

[WhistleForTheChoir]

Also want to say that even though I'm disagreeing with you, it's clear that your argument is very well thought out and I don't think you are wrong or I'm right. Just different views.

[Onlythisone]

@WhistleForTheChoir of course, I think this is one of those things that is primarily about emphasis, the side seen will always be the most apparent. I think it is only as obvious once being arm candy, you are there to make a guy look impressive to other men. It isn't like "ooh shiny" your job is to make them jealous of him, make them wonder what he has. They actually did studies of teenage boys to find out what has caused the influx of interest in anal sex and the answers were in greater words that it isn't liked as much but it is more impressive to tell your friends. The female role isn't to be a good woman it's to make him look good to other men (not writing that in agreement with the notion, but I think it is the natural state that people grow out of as they have more partners and learn what qualities are most admirable)

[Felicia5567]

I think traditionally maybe, but with women gaining more access to high paying positions and being more welcome in the workforce, it's getting more acceptable to marry someone with less income.

I found that it's an issue with men not choosing women above their pay grade too. There are friends of mine who ran into issues with that when men felt uncomfortable about not being the main breadwinner.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Its because women don't like it when the man isn't the breadwinner, women who out earn their partners by a significant amount report higher levels of disatisfaction in their relationships and are far more likely to cheat and divorce. If a guy wants a solid dependable relationship, he needs to make sure he out earns the woman because she will not be happy otherwise.

[DodgersGM]

There are some in both genders. Typically, you have hypergamous females who want to marry above their financial class, and then you've got hypergamous males who want to marry someone more conventionally attractive than they are.

They tend to make good pairs: cdn-01.independent.ie/.../...1_lif_25371930_I1.JPG

[AzureGirl]

Eh, I can’t speak for all women, but I certainly don’t feel that way personally. Most of the time in my relationship I’ve been the one who’s had the money and the car but I never minded. And if my boyfriend wanted to be a stay at home Dad one day then I would be totally fine with that. I would rather him be happy over anything. But that’s just me.

[WhistleForTheChoir]

Hypergamy is real, but it has to be understood through the context of a patriarchal society. This was literally the only chance for women of lower social status to improve their situation throughout most of history, and even today women's earning potential doesn't match that of men.

[FatherJack]

Overall , yes , this is simply evolutionary biology in action , a woman will naturally seek a provider & a protector , nothing to be bitter about , that's life !! This is why men can make themselves more potentially attractive , by working hard on themselves first.

[bubble_tea]

Yes, though most men do too. They prefer women from an equal social group than a lower group. And many wouldn't mind marrying up, they just can't find as many suitors, since there are more millionaire men than millionaire women.

[bubble_tea]

Forgot to add, in both cases it's the same only reason why they would marry down. He or she is much younger and super hot.

[Charleslvajr]

I know quite a few men who "married down" and as much as I like them, those girls are not that hot.

[bubble_tea]

@Charleslvajr It's like French, there are exceptions to every rule.

[Charleslvajr]

Since they out number the ones I've met who "married up", I would suggest by field research that the ones who "marry up" are the exceptions to the rule.

[bubble_tea]

@Charleslvajr My comment was related to marrying down for something else other than looks as being an exception. Also I agree that men marrying up rarely happens for many reason, but if you've read the definition of hypergamy, you would know that hypergamy also means marrying someone from an equal social group. As long as guys marrying down doesn't outnumber the guys marrying within, hypergamy also holds true for men.

[Charleslvajr]

I will concede that. My issue, I guess, is I never used the word Hypergamy for men. I know it's gender neutral, before we go there. That still doesn't equate to marrying up in social status or wealth.

[Charleslvajr]

That's also why I never used the word Hypergamy.

[bubble_tea]

@Charleslvajr If we can agree that 1 people marrying down usually do it for looks (maybe those women weren't hotties to you, but still much hotter compared to him?), and 2 that men usually care more about looks than women do, and 3 that there are more rich men than rich women, then logic dictates that there are more women marrying up than men. There actually are a surprising number of rich older women keeping male companions much younger than them and like to help them out with gifts and save them from financial troubles. They just don't make it public by marrying them, to avoid gossip and scandal.

[Charleslvajr]

I cannot agree to any of that. Rich women abound. Especially when you consider widows. As for caring more about looks, not in the women we marry, no. The ones we have casual encounters with yup. That's the reason for the hook up. And again, marry down is not necessarily for looks. You are definitely trying to push the onus of this onto men. Women drive this train. They are the gate keepers on sexuality. Short of rape, men do not have the choice here and no sane person condones rape. This puts the hypergamous behaviors most especially in the court of the females.

[bubble_tea]

@Charleslvajr Even including the widows, there are 10x more rich men than rich women. If I'm pushing the onus on this onto men, you're pushing the onus on this onto women. Richer men don't have to marry poorer women, true, then why do they? Did the women put a gun to their heads? No. Are those women withholding sex from them until they do? Maybe, but does that mean they have to marry those women? No, so why do they? You don't live in a country where no woman is willing to have sex before marriage. There are plenty of other women available, why would you choose to be 'forced' into marriage by that one woman? Is she the only one willing to have sex with you that you feel like you have no choice?

[Charleslvajr]

You're getting hysterical. Settle down.

[bubble_tea]

@Charleslvajr It's ok, you don't have to answer.

[raspberry0416]

You should be asking why are so many men happy to marry women "below" them, some even preferring women who are less intelligent than they are.

[Unit1]

Yikes! That is a quite decent argument hit for the men :/
That is... very thought provoking.

ih0.redbubble.net/.../flat,800x800,075,f.u1.jpg

I figure it might have something to do with men choosing specifically young women in their primes (18-25 years of age, which the women aren't such big moneymakers like the men, who go after them).

[raspberry0416]

Right. And women who will eventually become moneymakers aren't trying to get married when they are 18-25. They are usually still in school or working hard.

[Unit1]

I figured it was us, the men, who feed into this problem, yet complain about it at the same time.
I mean like really?
Anyway there is that now.
Hypergamy may be a troubling thing for me but then again if I don't want to be any part of this, then I have to do just that and not become myself one of those, who complain about hypergamy but then choose the hypergamous types of females.

But what else could I do?

[Toad-1]

To lots of guys it is about looks and girls tend (but not always) look their best in their 20s.

It can also be about personality too. To a lot of guys they don't care what the girl does for a living or how much she makes they just like here for her personality.

Then you also do have the guys who like to dominate over a woman not just in the bedroom either. Yeah they will choose a girl less intelligent than them cause they may feel it's easier to control or dominate them.

So a few reasons.

[raspberry0416]

@Unit1
You are spot on. Men do feed into this problem, but they turn around and complain about women being gold diggers and hypergamous whores who don't give average guys a chance.

Well, maybe if the men weren't all chasing the youngest, hottest women, there wouldn't be any gold-digging to begin with. But we all know that's never going to happen, so the wheels on the bus keep turning.

[Unit1]

Suddenly women are easy to understand 😱 at least we agree on that. Listening really does pay off 😊.
I knew i had reasons to love women 😍☺

I guess in other words we could say the shallow will date the shallow and their numbers aren't even so small. Those examples are picked up by the others and may follow it. Then there are those like me, who have their own perspective when it comes to dating. It may or may not be a common perspective but nevertheless it's still *MUCH * better than seeing women as hypergamous and seeing men as koreogamous (seeking younger mates and mating with them).

This is worthy a MHO. Also check out lady frost opinion 😀 hers is also worthy a MHO 🙂.

[raspberry0416]

@Unit1
I think it helps to see the bigger picture. No one exists in a vacuum, and just pointing fingers at someone doesn't solve the problem.
But I'm glad to see that this helped you.

[Unit1]

Thank you lady ☺

[hellionthesagereborn]

https://youtu.be/5oyrG3PcgLk

[hellionthesagereborn]

Its because its hard to find a woman who will have sex with you so men are less choosy. Plus women demand that the man be a provider (hence women who out earn their partners being significantly less happy in their relationship and more likely to cheat and divorce as opposed to women who are not the bread winners). So if he wants a stable relationship he has to make more then her because she cares, not because he particularly cares.

[raspberry0416]

@hellionthesagereborn
Ew that's a horrible video. Yes we get it guys are horny. We don't give a fuck.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Its a joke but it does prove a point, if you want some one who out earns you that means the man has to by extension in order to be with you have a different set of priorities to you. That is what he was saying. That we shame men because they are interested in a woman for things other then her career or how much she earns, meanwhile because that's women's criteria it necessitates that men in order to be in a relationship with them have different criteria. So basically don't be upset by it, just accept it. If you want a guy who is tall, he has to want some one who is short, if you want a guy who is smarter then you, he is going to have to want some one dumber then him, its that simple.

[Unit1]

Hypergamy and koreogamy fall into place and feed each other. It's my duty to stay away from this vicious practice. Even if it means I could die a kissless virgin 🤔😱😐
Still better than selling myself out.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@Unit1 Do you like attractive women? I think the obvious answer is yes, so does that mean you only like women who are attractive and could care less about their personality, their feelings? That you only see them as a thing to have sex with or as a whole person? I think again the answer is very obviously that no you see them as people and other aspects matter. That's what hypergamy is to women. If she only cares about the material she is a gold digger and yes you should (as all people) stay far away from a woman like that. BUT if that is only one trait of many that she judges you on, then that is no different then you judging a woman on her looks as well as many others and this is perfectly natural. Its biology. Just don't go to the extremes and your usually fine.

[Unit1]

@hellionthesagereborn I don't need lectures. I know I like attractive women and I have seen attractive women of all ages. I disregard the amount of salary as I wish mine would be too. I mostly care more about things, that are in control of a person than things, that are out of their control.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@Unit1 It wasn't a lecture, it was pointing out that the two are not that different, both are focused on a certain trait of the individual that facilitates the most optimal outcome for reproduction/childrearing which a lot of people do not realize. Just as women complain about how men care about looks, men complain about women caring about money. Both are doing the same thing but because they don't have context and they don't put themselves in the other shoe, both feel that they are being unfairly judged when that is not the case. It was an attempt to show perspective.

[Unit1]

@hellionthesagereborn I can clearly see that.

[raspberry0416]

@hellionthesagereborn
I'm not angry about it. The comic just sounds like a douche.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@Unit1 Yet you stated that hypergamy was a "vicious practice"? I was merely stating that is not the case, its no different then male attraction, or most everything else in life. That is that its perfectly fine if not necessary so long as its kept within certain parameters.

[hellionthesagereborn]

But does the comic have a point? I think he does, though really the issue is biology not socialization. Males preffer physical because that's whats going to ensure the woman and the child survive child birth. Women on the other hand prioritize "ambition" because its going to increase the odds of the man acquiring status and wealth which in turn ensures that the family has the maximum amount of resources at their disposal in order to increase their survival. Again, its only an issue if you ignore all other characteristics, then its just objectification which women do just as much as men.

[raspberry0416]

@hellionthesagereborn
I already knew that.

[hellionthesagereborn]

But your question was why men do that and it gave the impression that their was something wrong with men who don't have the same criteria as you/women do?

[Belgie]

For a woman to marry up, a man would have to marry down. And considering how shit marriage is in the first place, I can't believe most men would get married if they were marrying down.

[Alessus]

I would assume men are as well. I mean why wouldn't you choose a partner of higher status over on that is below you, all other aspects being equal?

[ManOnFire]

This is very true, yes. A woman won't date or marry a man with no car and works part-time, but a man would still date or marry a woman who takes the bus and works part-time.

[VegetaSSB]

i believe women are indeed hypergamous, but that arises from the fact that the minimal investiment of procreation exerted by women are higher than the minimal investment of men, so it´s a fair trade.

[RidingForever2]

If men are so easily seduced for that to happen we can see who holds the true power in society.

[Toad-1]

So basically men who marry down are easily seduced?

[RidingForever2]

I think so yes, I think women put far more effort in finding a good partner than men do. I think more men are lazy when it comes to finding a partner.

[freakyzeaky]

That is probably because of the way men and women are wired around sex. Men get off so much easier than women and by extension, men do not have to be as discerning if all they want to do is bust a nut. Women on the other hand usually need some kind of emotional connection and mental comfort to loosen up and reach orgasm. That requires them to be charmed, led around in the dance of seduction, etc.

So with that in mind, a woman is naturally going to be more discerning with men than the reverse.

Also so many men are "nice". They are taught from an early age to seek women's approval and to put women's needs before their own. They think they have to prove themselves, but then again, a woman being more discerning naturally sets things up that way. They look for unhealthy and flawed women to "fix", it is their way of hiding their own flaws and shortcomings.

[Unit1]

It's the power of DA PUSSI M8!!!
images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/.../...VrkcI5L.jpg
ih1.redbubble.net/.../flat,800x800,075,f.jpg

[TacosRAwesome]

I think most people marry someone who is overall on their level. Now if one partner happens to be more successful than the other, that just means that.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

People marrying the same level is a consequence of that hypergamy, not an argument against it.

It’s not a coincidence that it happens to be men as the more successful partner more often.

[TacosRAwesome]

@AllThatSweetJazz never said I disagree. Just that most couples are balanced.

[Kuraj]

I think all women are hypergamous, not most.
Women only ever seek superior partners, and social status/wealth is simply one of the easiest ways for women to determine male superiority.

[johnboymuscles]

Women much more so because men and women on primal level wabt different things. Women want security. In to days world that means money. Men want something that looks good and makes a meal from the food he brings home

[Phoenix98]

It goes both ways with women, I'd say the vast majority though would be happy being married to one man who's life is just ok.

[jacquesvol]

http://i.imgur.com/DPB6Tq2.png

[johari]

I see plenty of stay at home dads, times are a changing

[hellionthesagereborn]

Not really. Also they have a much higher probability of being divorced by their wife if they stay at home. Its also why women who earn a lot of money marry much later in life because they refuse to marry some one who makes less then them (in general). Their is nothing wrong with it, Its no different then a man wanting an attractive woman, its biology and it serves a practical function. Just don't let it be all consuming and it should be fine.

[johari]

@hellionthesagereborn whoa I didn't know that, I thought guys didn't wanna settle down since they can live that bachelor lifestyle

[hellionthesagereborn]

Statistically men are happier married then when they are not. It gives us a purpose. (reminds me of a quote that mentions how women in a way have it easy as they know their purpose from the moment they are born, to create life, but men can search their entire life without finding out why they exist). The fact is commitment for men is as costly as sex is to women. For women if she gets pregnant she is in for nine months of dealing with that, then the many years of child rearing, so she is much more selective about whom she will have sex with, for men they are not because short of the calories burned during sex, they have no investment in it. However when it comes to relationships the opposite is true, he has to work and earn money (more then her (this is also why statistically single women out earn single men but married men significantly out earn married and single women, because they need to be the provider (which is what women want and generally men are happy with it as well as it

[hellionthesagereborn]

gives him purpose) to provide for the family (which is expensive and the more children you have (historically quite a lot) the more money it takes, he has to be a protector and be the one to manage the family primary decision maker etc which is a lot of additional responsibility. For women they don't really get more responsibilities in the relationship and they tend to get more resources so its less investment and thus for them its easier to "commit". So that's why men are far more picky about whom they commit to, again its biology and their is nothing wrong with it just as their is nothing wrong with a woman being more picky about whom she has sex with.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Lets put it this way, do you enjoy the bachelorette life style? How many guys do you think live it up? Its not really that many guys, we don't sleep around as much as a lot of women think (in fact studies have shown that men have on average the same amount of partners as women have). Plus we are people, we want intimacy and a connection so again, that's why we are statistically happier when married then when not (also married men live longer).

[johari]

@hellionthesagereborn wow thank you so much for the insight, that gives me so much hope for the future!!! I thought guys resented being the provider, I try not to ask for anything because some people I know make it seem like I'm pulling teeth when I ask for a favor. Or they hold it over my head and remind me so I try not to ask for help even if it'd make my life easier... I noticed that guys think that I don't want or need them because of that. I don't know, I just want to bother them or depend on them because it makes me worry that they won't follow through or will get mad if I ask.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Well some do but not for the reason you think. Its mostly because in todays society we are no longer balanced. See previously we had our role to play and women had theirs, now we have our role to play but society tells women they don't have to do their part, in fact it likes to tell both men and women that women don't even need men. So some guys do not like being the provider not because they particularly dislike it (as I said its instinctive for us to be the provider, that's our contribution, women birth and nurture, men protect and provide its a good system where both parties work together offsetting each others weaknesses as an individual with their own strengths thus making a much more effective and strong pair, more so then they could be individually.) but because currently women generally speaking do not appreciate it. Its expected its just something men are "suppose to do". Previously men where respected for it, they where rewarded for it, traditionally women doted on him

[hellionthesagereborn]

went out of their way to please him and make him happy (our society states its because "oppression/sexism" or what have you, incorrectly) because she knew that he was out working his butt off for her (historically pre 1900s the 100 hour work week was standard (just imagine the toll that takes on a person (a man since the vast majority of women did not want to do that so it was the man doing the work the vast majority of the time) and their kids, that if it was necessary he would fight and die for them so it was her way of giving back. Now we are told that we are the bad guy, we "oppressed" women or what have and that expecting this treatment from a woman (Just little things like cooking or being their for him) is "sexist" and that women don't exist to please their husbands/boyfriends (ironic since we should try to please our partners, why wouldn't we?) but

[hellionthesagereborn]

they still expect the same gender roles that they claim are sexist and shouldn't be applied to them absolutely should be applied to men. For instance about 80% of women surveyed said that men should pay for dates, fair enough, but what is she giving him? In fact a dating coach mentioned this to an audience of women, asked them if the man should pay, every woman said yes that they would not even consider being with a man who would not pay. Then he asked if a man, husband or boyfriend, was entitled to sex, again every one of them said no that it was her body her choice and she should not be pressured or obligated or what have you. He then pointed out that how can you say that your entitled to his money but then claim that your not entitled to give anything back. This is the divide that has pushed men to the point where they no longer want the responsibilities that are expected of him, because if women don't have to have them why should he?

[hellionthesagereborn]

So some men reject these expectations because they are tired of being expected to do all of this but then not get anything in return (and believe me, being appreciated goes a long way and guys really don't ask for much, sex (if your in a relationship) gives intimacy and makes him feel wanted, her being nurturing really means a lot because guys use their relationship with women to deal with their emotional needs and issues (they may not say anything (guys don't socialize their emotions, they deal with them through actions usually) but it means a lot), her cooking/cleaning shows that she is thinking about him and knows that he does a lot and wants to give something back etc. So when guys don't get those things they just stop seeing a point in taking all of those responsibilities (no one likes being taken for granted and right now it seems socially acceptable to do that with guys) when no one appreciates it. So yes you will run across guys who resent that role, however

[hellionthesagereborn]

if you show your appreciation, show that your going to be invested in him and his needs, a man will not just want but need to do the same. Obviously some people are just, for lack of a better term, assholes and its important not to let him take advantage of you, again obviously, but in general if you do those things, you make him feel like he matters that you care that your their for him, yes men will gladly do these things for you.

[SirBunBun]

@hellionthesagereborn my mother is a successful business woman and married a gardener (my father). just a random addition to hopefully brighten your day.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@SirBunBun and? Ancedotal evidence is irrelevant. I survived a car accident when I wasn't wearing my seat belt, does that mean that you should never wear a seatbelt? No, it just means I got lucky. I mean, I'm happy that your parents worked out but statistically that is not a likely scenario, if their is a substantial difference in incomes the probability of divorce is higher, obviously its not set in stone, obviously its not a guarantee that they will divorce, people vary, but we also have certain trends that we follow, this is one of them.

[SirBunBun]

@hellionthesagereborn I want going to defy statistics man

[hellionthesagereborn]

@SirBunBun you where not what? You are not trying to defy statistics? If that is what you are saying then that's fine I'm just pointing out that one time does not mean every time and the most common counter argument to statistics or arguments in general is by brining the one time things did not conform to those statistics which isn't logical. A lot of people try to bet on that anecdotal evidence when they have a high probability of failure and they end up suffering because of it. That's why I pointed it out. Also being aware that this is what happens will allow people to avoid the issue or if that is not an option be aware of it so they can try and work around it i. e. the woman being more understanding that the reason why she feels resentful has nothing to do with what her husband is doing and thus let her move past it etc..

[dragonfly6516]

Yeah, I think most are. I'm not. I'm used to earning more than the men I date, or even dating men who aren't working at all.

[bibi3pu]

Sorry love that just means you took the bait. You don't get brownie points for that

[dragonfly6516]

It means that I don't mind stay at home husbands and fathers.

[Trumpster666]

Of course. It's no different than men mostly wanting to marry younger attractive women

[COCOCHANEL]

yes i think most are looking for at least one of those

[WTFliberals]

It is true ! and I believe its the differences of the behavioral nature between the sexes.

[bibi3pu]

Yes, but like with everything woman, uncomfortable truth needs to be rationalized hidden or denied.

[PunkinPie]

Most women I know are the opposite.

[Toad-1]

any of those women making 6 figures and dating a guy who might be making significantly less?

[PunkinPie]

Not six figures... jeez I wish. Nobody I know makes that much except the VPs at my company.

A lot of college-educated women I know marry blue collar guys. Often the wives end up being the main breadwinners for a period of time. Or the guys give up trying to get jobs and start some kind of side business, like home improvement, that doesn't supply a steady income or insurance benefits.

That's what I mean.

[kaylaS91]

Sure.
Most men and women are hypergamous.

[Toad-1]

are you sure men are?

[kaylaS91]

... have you not seen the number of men who post essays online complaining about how their girlfriends are golddigging cunts who won't get off the couch to find a job? Before planning really complex play-by-plays on how to destroy them to save money?

[Toad-1]

nope not really.

[kaylaS91]

oh?
Be sure to google various forums/sites about 'men's rights'. Many of which involve complaints about 'money hungry cunts' and how impossible it is to find a woman who can pay for herself.
(which would imply that the man is seeking a hypergamous relationship.)

[Toad-1]

im really just looking for a rational discussion about this. Not looking to just argue

[kaylaS91]

nor am I.
Hence why I told you about a few examples of why I believe it's not only women who wish to date/marry 'up'. The more easily accessible ones that are online, since you seemed doubtful of my opinion.

So just check out those sites/forums and let me know what you think.

[freakyzeaky]

What is wrong with a guy who wants a woman to pull her own weight? That isn't the same as a woman who expects a man to be of a higher social or financial value as her.

One is looking for equality, the other is looking to have her cake and eat it too.

[kaylaS91]

@freakyzeaky There's nothing wrong with it at all.
It would make zero sense for a man (or woman) to seek someone who they'll have to be a financial/emotional support for.

[johnboymuscles]

How is a man who is 'supporting a gold digger' and wants her to "pay for herself' trying to move up a social level? At very best he's wanting someone of his own level but settling for someone lower

[kaylaS91]

@johnboymuscles Never said that men who 'support golddiggers' are trying to move up a social level?

[johnboymuscles]

Erm... yes you did... Many of which involve complaints about 'money hungry cunts' and how impossible it is to find a woman who can pay for herself.
(which would imply that the man is seeking a hypergamous relationship.)

[kaylaS91]

@johnboymuscles I'm glad that you can quote things I've said previously.
Too bad you continue having a hard time understanding them.

[johnboymuscles]

Cute how you deleted your original message hahahaha

[kaylaS91]

look again:
s8.postimg.org/.../...ure_1262017_13505_PM.bmp.jpg
hahahahahh

[johnboymuscles]

Cute that you made the effort to screenshot and upload and share a link.

[kaylaS91]

@johnboymuscles thanks. I feel like it's worth the minimal amount of effort to keep half-assed tangential arguments under control. :)

[johnboymuscles]

Or you could just post non-contradictory posts to begin with? Just an idea cutie

[kaylaS91]

@johnboymuscles 'non-contradictory posts'
... what in the fuck?

[johnboymuscles]

I'm glad that you can quote things I've said previously.
Too bad you continue having a hard time understanding them.

[Charleslvajr]

Kayla - That might be what you think they meant. It's a lot more complicated then that and men don't care about "marrying up". It's about being taken advantage of, "taken for a ride" so to speak, I know that's an older quote most people don't get these days. If a woman puts in her share of effort to the relationship and the estate of the family, a guy is not going to complain about her not paying her way.
Most of those guys you are talking about are complaining about women who refuse to do anything, including work or working on the house and keep demanding more from the sofa with a bowl full of bon bons (which are really good btw).
Let's not argue. I know a good many of those guys who are on the most common MRA posts and I have an insight. I'm not flaming you. K?

[kaylaS91]

@Charleslvajr ok, true.
MRA guys aside, though, most socially inept guys I know who are in LTR and working full-time wouldn't be interested in dating unemployed/couchpotato women either.

I think hypergamous dating is neither exclusive to either gender, nor is anything wrong with it in the first place. It would be an idiotic move to 'date down', in my opinion. I wouldn't date someone without a job or a post-secondary education, either.

[freakyzeaky]

Hypergamy becomes a problem when a person monkey braches and leaves a trail of broken hearts and suffering in their self-centered and manipulative climb to the top.

And again, many men don't care about dating "up". About the same or slightly less is fine. I personally don't think about status when I date. I don't care if she is a hairdresser, a nurse, a lawyer, or an administrator. I don't care if she made 40k or 80k. Doesn't matter to me at all. I don't think to myself about how my station in life is going to rise after marriage. Doesn't even cross my mind.

[Charleslvajr]

@freakyzeaky I've never known a guy to call his buddies with a line even approximating "... and you wouldn't believe what she does for a living..." I've heard plenty of women say that.

[Lumberman53]

Not most but it's definitely more common than men marrying up

[Astoriana]

That's some fake MGTOW bullshit.

[Unit1]

Someone had to say MGTOW 😂 xD :D

[Astoriana]

@Unit1 well, they bring it up constantly so I feel like I should be able to make fun of them just as often.

[Unit1]

Seems only fair :>

[Astoriana]

@Unit1 j’avoue, yes.

[Unit1]

https://i.imgur.com/OX0rWkG.png

Yup. I'm sure MGTOW brought it upon themselves.

[WhistleForTheChoir]

No one stays with someone they think is beneath them, but hypergamy is an actual sociological term, meaning women marry up for social status specifically, which is something that has happened and been observed in every society, gender equal or no, even back to the extremely gender equal hunter-gatherers (even though they didn't really "marry", but you catch my drift). In fact, the hunter-gatherers may have even been matriarchal at times, with a woman leading, and women STILL were hypergamous (we know this because of genetic information that shows that relatively few men reproduced at this time). Hypergamy is a natural human condition. Not saying people can't overcome their programming, but it's still their programming.
However, the inverse to this is that men try to marry women more attractive than them. Even though there's not really a word for that.

[Astoriana]

@WhistleForTheChoir

media.giphy.com/media/3o6Ztip1Hq0NNGfqyk/giphy.gif

[WhistleForTheChoir]

@Astoriana Okay, then just stay incorrect and ignorant, doesn't hurt my feelings.

[Astoriana]

@WhistleForTheChoir really? Because it certainly appears to

[WhistleForTheChoir]

@Astoriana Nice try lol just a little too transparent.

[WhistleForTheChoir]

Also helps that you essentially just said, "Really? Because [me being incorrect and ignorant] certainly appears to [hurt your feelings]."

[Astoriana]

@WhistleForTheChoir you wrote me a novel with some completely unprovable pseudoscientific bullshit, and now you’re getting all up in your feelings about how I won’t listen to your preachings.

[WhistleForTheChoir]

@Astoriana It's social sciences, so ya know, not really science. But it is accepted terminology to explain a widely dispersed phenomenon, even by feminist thinkers who add the important caveat that it's necessary to view hypergamy through the context of a patriarchal society. And I wasn't trying to have an argument at first, just was pointing out it wasn't "bull-shit", which requires a little elaboration. I'm sorry you have a problem reading not-really-long paragraphs.

And you're trying to have an argument about someone else's feelings lol, so who has really lost the thread of what their original point was here?

[Astoriana]

@WhistleForTheChoir


media.giphy.com/media/3o6Ztip1Hq0NNGfqyk/giphy.gif

[WhistleForTheChoir]

Cited source for a feminist on hypergamy > "Human Evolution: a Philosophical Anthropology" by Mary Maxwell, page 162. Sorry, took me a little bit to find the page, but I knew I had it around here somewhere.

[Astoriana]

@WhistleForTheChoir you are so boring

[WhistleForTheChoir]

@Astoriana Yeah, I guess knowing what you're talking about IS pretty boring isn't it. Good one lol

[WhistleForTheChoir]

Your pride in your own ignorance is much more exciting ^_^

[Astoriana]

@WhistleForTheChoir

Why do you feel the need to correct people you find ignorant on views that have absolutely zero bearing on your life or even theirs?

[WhistleForTheChoir]

@Astoriana Am I allowed to type more than one sentence or would that be too much reading for you?

[WhistleForTheChoir]

Short version: The only thing worse than someone who is right and can't let it go, is someone who is wrong and can't let it go.

[Astoriana]

@WhistleForTheChoir ugh, you and your pretentious ilk bore the shit out of me

[pr3ttybr0wn]

Smart attractive women are.

[CubsterShura]

Aren't we all more or less of hypergamous?

[hellionthesagereborn]

No, men don't care about money or status. Men are more focused on the physical women are focused on the physical too but also on wealth and status which is what hypergamy reffers to. Its nothing to be ashamed of, at least no more then it would be for men to be ashamed that they like attractive women, so long as it doesn't get to the point of disregarding them as a human being (i. e. gold digging/womanizer).

[Fallahad]

Many are. But this isn't a bad thing.

[Toad-1]

Why isn't it a bad thing?

[Fallahad]

Because having high standards is good.

[stillagoodgirl]

No at least not in my area

[omgjassy]

It's not true

[Toad-1]

How so?

[omgjassy]

I know lots of girls that date below them

[Toad-1]

Looks like you aren't one of them

[omgjassy]

Exactly

[Toad-1]

So therefore you are hypergamous

[omgjassy]

I guess if you want to place me in a corner

[Toad-1]

You just proved it in my other question lol.

[omgjassy]

Yeah so

[Decentguy]

yes a lot of women in my country are like that

[CT_CD]

Yes I believe most women are hypergamous

[oksurething]

It's obviously true.

[LegateLanius]

People usually are.

[LegateLanius]

mho?

[Ceasar_Rex]

No. I don't

[disgustingweebtrash]

Yes.