A modern woman should NOT have to earn 40- 50% of the income AND do 90% of the cooking, 90% cleaning, and 90% of the dishes. Oh and once there are kids involved, 90% of the diapering/ changing, 90% of the chauffeuring, and 80% of the disciplining.
Many male counterparts do 10% of the domestic work and think that the extra 10% more they earn in wages makes up for additional labor at home. Now I get that life isn't always 50/50 and sometimes it's 110 /0 cooking, 0/110 cleaning. This is specialization of tasks and it's a complete cop out to think remembering to swap motor oil or check tire pressure every 3/6 months is the same amount of work as meal prepping ir washing dishes 7 days a week.
Weaponized incompetence IS real and needs to be stopped By those who make that 10% of what they do contribute a royal pain each and every time. Now i get that this isn't all men. Or most men. I am talking about that uncle or manchild we all know who treats his wife like this and that we all know she deserves better. Females, like anyone else, deserve someone who is trying to activelt build a life, not someone happy to put their feet on someone else's back watching them do it for them.
I'm comfortable paying for things that I'm less experienced in or don't want to take the time to do well (plumbing, electrical, roof issue). If it's putting together or fixing furniture, I can do it. If I need something moved, I can call a couple girlfriends to help lift. Sometimes its better to pay someone to do it right the first time instead of having to go through an ego check when it keeps breaking. Realistically weekly housework and laundry are solvable problems too. If a partner is not willing to do it, I just hope they are willing to recognize that it IS work, and they can 'solve it' by throwing money at it.
There should be a reasonably equal division of responsibility across all work. How exactly you divide it is up to you as a couple, but you need to look at everything and weigh it fairly.
Let's say that you both work full time - 8 work hours 5 days a week. That's a 50/50 split, right? Well, it certainly could be, but in practice, it often doesn't work out that way. If one person works a mile down the road, and the other has a 90 minute average commute each direction, then it's not equal, and the responsiblity needs to be divided taking that into account. Likewise, taking care of a child under 2 years old isn't limited to 8 hours a day - that needs to be considered.
If you live in an apartment or condo, you may have no yard or outdoor maintenance, but if you are in a single family home, you probably do. If you use public transportation, you have no vehicle maintenance, but if you own cars, you do. If you own your own home, then you are responsible for all maintenance, repairs, and upgrades, including painting, electrical, plumbing, and appliances. The equation will be different for every couple, and may include seasonal adjustments.
If all else is equal, and you insist on splitting the cooking and cleaning 50/50, then be prepared to mow half the lawn, fix half the blown down fences, dig half the ditches when the sewer pipe leaks, spend half the time in the attic fixing the heater or installing the ceiling fan, and be ready to change the alternator on the car when it fails, whether it's in the heat of July or the cold of January (flip that for you Aussies and NZers).
Or, come up with a more sensible division of labor, revise it periodically to account for changes of situations, and then do your part without complaining. It's really not that difficult to divide responsibility fairly.
@MrOracle You make some good points. I would still be willing to do my fair share of the cleaning chores on a regular basis, though, regardless of the circumstances. Because I think it's just the right thing to do. Roommates should share chores 50/50. It's the principle of the matter.
@Jamie05rhs Well, first, if you're in a long-term relationship or married, you aren't "roommates." Second, even if you were, you aren't splitting things 50/50 if you are both doing 50% of the cooking and laundry and washing dishes, but one person also does all of the lawn mowing, gutter cleaning, leaf raking, car maintenance, appliance repair, etc. That's the point: ALL of the work needs to be taken into consideration, not just the "daily routine" work. Two people living in an apartment may have very little outdoor work, while two people living in a rural area on 2 acres of land may have massive amounts out outdoor work. A typical suburban home will be somewhere in the middle. You need to account for your particular circumstances.
For me it depends. I view a relationship as a team effort where both are equals. The home and the job are both equally important. There is no point in having a good job if you do not have a good home to come to. There is no point in having a home without a good job to pay for it because you will lose the home. So I view the home and work together when it comes to dividing up who does what. I throw both in the same hat then divide that whole total 50/50. I aim for a true 50/50 split for the WHOLE picture, not just work or just the home.
If the woman does not have a job or has a job with less demanding hours or labor than the man, then yes she should do more of the housework. If the man has a less demanding job than the woman, then the man should do more at home. Whatever it takes to hit that true 50/50 split. If you have a situation where one has a job and the other does not, the one without a job should be taking care of the home.
When it comes to children, the care should be 50/50 regardless of how the work/home balance is split.
The one with the time to do the chores is the one who should do them.
For the first 3 years of our marriage, I worked and my husband attended school. He had more time to do those things so he did them. I worked 12-hour days and he did college for 2-6 hours a day. Leaving him with much more time than I had.
Now he's working 8-hour days and I am in the hiring process with a new job but haven't started yet so I have the time to do those things so I do them.
It will be very interesting to see what happens when I also start working those 12-hour shifts again.
This is a bit of a complicated answer. For a few reasons.
First off, I think both people should contribute equally in their own ways, maybe you split the chores like he cuts grass, and you do dishes, but relationships are a team sport.
Now as far as cleaning/housework stuff. My issue with this argument is most guys don't need their house to be as clean and organized as the women do. Did you see your man's apartment before you moved in together? That's what he is comfortable with.
Women do this shit mostly for themselves, and then pass it off like they are taking this big load off of their husband's back when to him, it's already clean. You are the one that wants it cleaner. Not saying a man can't do it for you, but stop acting like men are demanding that women clean. You guys do it, and then get mad that we don't care.
As far as the cooking goes. Most women these days don't know how to cook. I am usually the one that has to cook, and I have dated quite a few women from all different backgrounds.
Now a final thought to consider. Let's say you are sleeping in bed and hear someone break into your house... Who's job is it to go check it out? Are you both going? Or is the man the one that has to get up and check it out risking his life for you? Does he get the option to say, why don't you get this one honey? How about a bird flys in the house, are. you gonna take care of it or expect him to do it?
The point is, you ladies have stuff that you expect us to do as well. "Modern" women earn just as much as men, but still expect men to pay for shit, and make more money than them.
So if both people make the same money, in today's society. Why is the man still expected to shoulder most of the financial load? Shouldn't these modern women want to take on that responsibility? Like men should be doing more housework?
I say yes mostly because that's what the man was looking for at the end of the day in the majority of cases. Men will have certain expectations of their women just like women come into a relationship having expectations of their man.
If a man comes up to rob you and your man. For the majority of women they have a base expectation of their man to step up and protect them. As he should as the man. It's a gender role, one that's pretty universally accepted by men and women.
Not sure why girls sometimes look over things and see gender roles as inherently bad when they completely disregard the ones they hold for men.
I understand to a degree with chores at the house with both people working. Like do your own laundry. Man takes out the trash, woman handles most of the other cleaning but the idea that absolutely everything in the relationship should be 50/50 it's just not realistic
And at the end of the day, girls don't even believe it themselves. Even if you try to say everything regarding the relationship should be 50/50.
Then next time a burglar breaks in the house, you get out of bed and tell your man "don't worry baby. I got this one. You stay in bed" then grab the bat as you go check the house to defend your home on behalf of you all.
No, it should be equal effort. There are things that I am better at or more efficient than my SO.
There are things his is better. We kind of do what we are good at. For example, not that this is hard, but I’m quicker sorting and putting away laundry.
He is by far better fixing things around the house. I am a better cook, but he is learning and enjoys helping.
That, therefore, is something we both do, often together. It is fairly balanced for us. 😊
Cleaning and cooking are basic aspects of being an adult and therefore, both men and women should be able to do them and contribute equally to maintaining the home. My husband cooks and cleans just as much as I do. We both have specific tasks that we like and dislike though. For example, he hates doing laundry so I wash and fold all of our clothes but he has no problem cleaning the bathroom (which I hate doing) so that's how he contributes. Both of us enjoy cooking different meals for each other and we both do other various tasks to take care of our apartment so we've been able to find this balance that works for us. I understand that throughout most of history, men primarily worked outside of the home and that's why women generally did all of the housework. However, in today's age with a majority of men AND women having jobs and careers outside of the house, it makes no sense for only one person to be delegated or expected to complete all of the housework simply because of their sex.
So you must be talking about when In a relationship.. no it's a 50/50 deal. I look at it like this if we are in a relationship and right now where I live there's tons of snow on the ground so I'm not going to be working for a couple weeks maybe not unless I get a job on the inside but since I'm home I'm going to go ahead and do it anyway just because that's who I am and I like stuff picked up and but we're supposed to be put I'm not going to say well I did this for I did that that's stupid and you are either working or you're not and if I see something it needs to be done I'm going to do it anyway I don't point my finger and say oh that's your job cuz that's bulshit I mean that's part of the relationship you take care of it before it has to be taken care of you make it easier on the other person I like to clean I like to cook I've had to do it all my life so I'm going to do it no matter what
No more than women should be expected to take care of the outside of the house and yard. It just depends on what you choose to do together. For instance, you may decide to take turns cooking or you will both do cleanup. But it also depends on if both work, or if one works full time and one part time. It's just something you have to work out together so one is not carrying most of the burden. But it is best you do your own laundry as guys don't know how to wash clothes and if it should be delicates or permanent press.
It's 2022 and not 1922. Girls are literate and perhaps hold multiple PhD.
Hence it all voice down to the couples agreement.
If both work secularly, then it's only fair both share the housework, otherwise share to hire a maid.
If one works, then the the other (the man or the woman) should take up the household chores.
Of course in the man-dominated societies, I'll be crucified. But I think in principle, we're undergoing a major social overhaul where gender equality and meritocracy will eventually rein.
Hence like it or not, when the remnants who still hold on to the 1922 ideology passes, a new society based on merits will dawn.
Yep. Women tend to be more anal about cleaning and appearances. They think it should be done instantly even if it takes more work, or there are more important things that need to be done. Guys tend to be willing to wait a little bit until it becomes a priority, generally because there are more important priorities and it doesn't bother us as much. Therefore, I think women should generally take initiative to clean stuff up, rather than nagging their partners about it. If something is really important to you, then do it right yourself.
For example, if food is stuck on a bowl I as a man will tend to take that bowl and put it in the sink with warm water and a little soap to soak for a few hours. Then when I happen to walk passed the sink later that day, I will dump the soapy water down the drain and rinse it off. All the food will come off on it's own and then I can toss it into the dishwasher because water is a solvent and it will work for me... As a result it takes me like 5 seconds of actual work over several hours. In contrast every woman I have ever know will be like, why did you leave that there you should clean it up instantly. It doesn't matter that you explain how it works, in their mind it is more important to grab a scrub brush and labor away with elbow grease to remove stuck food off that bowl for the next 15 minutes of their life to know that it is done. They will be frustrated about it and tired, but that's how they think things should be done... They want to take ownership of it, but at the same time want to complain about it... Women can't multitask when it comes to cleaning. It is too much of an obsession. They care what other people might think about a dish in a sink or whatever...
Another situation that never makes sense to me is when the internet goes out. Women will get all emotional and frustrated shouting at the sky for 20 minutes about why doesn't it work. Then they will call the ISP. They will sit on hold for like 30 minutes listening to elevator music. Then they will talk to some tech worker in India that tells to the unplug it and plug it back in buddy. They will turn it into a huge ordeal that takes an hour of their day and talk to people about it... They will want to talk about how bad the customer service is so on and so forth afterwards... As a man in contrast I will tend to just check what is happening in command line in like 10 seconds, then maybe log into my router and release and renew DHCP leases and reregister DNS entries and then get back to using the internet and don't say a word to anyone about it. Moral of the story... Do what you are good at and don't make it a problem/stressors for other people if you can manage. If you think it needs to be done, then get it done, don't expect others to do it for you.
Each couple must negotiate their own relationship. Each couple probably already has their strength and weakness... guys better at fixing things... mowing, edging the lawn, girls washing clothes... etc. Each can specialize in the thing they naturally have done anyway or they are better at.
I would say in most cases... I'd expect the women to be more interested in keeping the house clean. A guy is naturally more ok with being a bigger slob. He would be fine if the house starts to get a little bit messy and it will bother girls before it will the guys.
It more depends on if she works as many hours as he does at a job. All housework and taking care of kids combined doesn't equal a 40 hour per week job. If they both work then they should both divide the housework, etc. And if she works as much as he does so the home stuff is divided, then she should be paying half of the mortgage/rent, utilities, food, transportation, etc.
It shouldn't be like they show on TV shows where the man works all day while the woman sits around at home and then nags him when he gets home to do stuff at home too. That is when not being married is good to tell her to get out. lol Either be fair or leave is the way I do things.
Taking care of the house/apartment should be 50/50 overall, but both partners should do the chores they enjoy the most (or hate the least), including cooking, cleaning, finances, reorganizing, etc. Both people should pull equal weight but do chores they don't mind doing (or go back-and-forth if you both hate them)
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
Depends on who’s bringing home the money,
me and my fiancé live together we are engaged.
im the carrer oriented one, i run a construction company
She works now, helping me out, witn office stuff, and other things i need.
But will stop when we have kids. And be a full time mom
I bring home the money. She raises our kids, And takes care of things at home.
this is what we agreed what is gunna happen. And she is 100% on board
i support them financially She supports me. So i can do my job as a man. Provide and grow the company
I was explaining to a guy right now. That I need to find a job, so we could have a good stable future and not struggle or worry about anything. Then he told me “don’t worry about anything. All I need is you”
Do what ever you want, the kitchen is mine, no one touches my knives. The bathroom should be cleaned by me and me only, because no matter what you do! It won't be good enough for me, plus it always smells like citrus and flowers when i do it. I expect shared chores between the man and the woman, not more, not less.
Unfortunately I see a lot of relationships where the man and woman work almost the same amount, then the woman does basically all the housework and taking care of the children. It's supposed to be a balence. Putting that much on one person isn't fair. I see this a lot in feminist relationships too. The man wants to be "modern" so even if he's making more he expects her to pay half for everything, but then also expects her to still do all the housework. He omits all the expectations for men while benefiting from the ones expected from women. Personally, I want to be a housewife doing all the chores and cooking.
The concept of the duties being shared originated from what women felt comfortable with.
There is no doubt that women earlier were dependent on men to be guided they always sought a man's help
In reality women try to copy men in a way impress them by showing that they could just do that as well.
Earlier they sought comfort of work with less stress.
And men worked at home as well there work place people just don't appreciate what man has worked in the house be it the lawn msintainance plumbing system renovation securing the family.
Ensuring kids having quality education and well being of whole family
And they would taunt the guys aren't you a man do it.
I think everybody who lives in a house together should share the chores. My mom was always at work when my parents split up. Been doing all my own laundry, dishes, help cleaning the house etc since 9 years old. Did everything else and cooked for myself since my mom got cancer when I was in high school. I don't expect a woman to do anything for me that I can do myself, because I wasn't raised that way. If she wants to help, that's great. I would bbq her some ribs or something to show my appreciation.
No, they shouldn’t HAVE to do more. It all depends on the relationship. If the husband is working more, then I think it’s fair the woman does more housework. But I also think it’s the other way around. If the husband stays home a lot while the woman is working, the husband should do housework.
If she decided to date/marry 'up' with a guy who takes responsibility for all/most of the stuff men traditionally did then yeah, she should be part of the team and do her part. She can't expect him to do everything. But I can see why guys who don't do much/any kind of traditional man stuff and have close to zero responsibilities don't get it tho.
No, but there is usually a division of labor in a household where someone is usually more motivated and more efficient at doing some or all aspects of housework.
@PrettyPriya: Yup, we are. The folding of the laundry is something my partners always preferred doing and I've always taken care of the trash and cat litter, just to give two examples.
no, I live there as well. We split up the chores, as to who can do what better. She really likes cutting the grass, I do the trimming. She likes planting the flowers, I get load, unload and dump the mulch so she can spread it out. We are a team. So we work together as a team.
i think if there's a huge gap in income and the breadwinner is working 60+ hours a week and the other is working 30 the one working less hours should put an extra 10-12 hours a week into household duties. And by the way that could also easily be the man in that position. Gender is not the thing to focus on here. It's trying to make sure everything stays kept up with.
No, the work at work and/or around the house should be equally divided to make the best use of one's skills and enjoyment of given task.
That is ti say, even if others don't enjoy any housework they should at least help or provide assistance by other means (or if one does all housework the other should somehow make things even).
Depends on who's at home more. But I generally resolve not to make any mess I'm not willing to clean up immediately, so I would minimize the extra work I'd cause her. Kids add another layer of complexity to that equation, but I'm not too worried about having any. Hasn't happened yet, probably never will.
Everyone should be expected to know how to take care of themselves and their house, and if you're living with somebody else then it's up to discussion on how to share things. Living with a friend of mine, I didn't like her cooking so I did most of the cooking, she didn't like my cleaning so she did most of the cleaning, we rotated on more equal jobs like laundry and cat litter. That is, as I see it, the way things should work, with equal division between people, regardless of gender.
If you're married or living together, it's a shared thing and should not matter who does what, but both girl and guy should be willing and able to do everything. I work in a male dominated field, so why shouldn't a guy be able to do some of the "girl stuff"?
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
It depends. I consider myself more of a traditional woman, so ideally I’d like to work less than my SO and take care of the house. I’d happily take care of my SO as well and take a lot off his shoulders with housework.
If it was 50/50 financially, it would change this. If I work full time, it’d be harder on me to cook, clean and do housework after working a long shift. My job is physically demanding and I usually don’t do much when I get home. It’d be an unrealistic expectation for me to do those things. It’s not that I don’t enjoy taking care of my home, but it’s hard when my back and feet are on fire. Therefore my days off are dedicated to housework, cooking and cleaning.
If the woman works all day, the man should do the majority of the housework. If the man works all day, the woman should have to do the majority of the housework. If they both work, then the housework should be split. Same goes for same sex couples or any live in relationships ie room-mates, family members etc.
This house wife model only works if the male is the main breadwinner and the woman works less or not at all. Things have changed and in my current relationship I expect 50/50 as we both work the same but I earn a little more too!
One of my old friends is a small household of a widowed mother and 2 daughters. Don't really see how you can expect them to get the men to do the work.
Though they are a family of billionaires, and all their maids are female.
"Expected" is a dangerous word. No, they should not be expected to do more work in the home. In many cases it does end up that way because women are, by nature, more prone to want to clean up a mess when they see it. But "expected"? I should think not.
You'll never get a perfect balance but domestic jobs should be as equal a split. Like alternating or splitting jobs. It won't be always 50/50 like with a relationship at times it maybe one or the krtber do more of the domestic jobs die to sickness injury or any other reason. But as much as possible there should be a split. So for me if one week I wasn't able to cook or clean much for whatever reason. I'd insist that my girlfriend ke wife doesn't do any the next week so j can make it up to her. If say girlfriend was better at cooking she may take the lead in that more where as I would clean more. Or even just hwlp in the kitchen. It could be fun to cook together.
As with relationships it won't ways be that 50/50 at times it could be 90/10 or anything in between.
I don't know if this makes a lot of sense and I know there is more on it to say to make it easier. I'm really sorry I just can't find the words.
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
I actually believed otherwise but changed my mind. From personal experience, women don't actually respect men who do housework or cook for their spouses. I have done a lot of housework my whole life living both alone and with family. From cooking to sewing, fixing electronics/electrical stuff, repairing the furniture, and more. I also do my parent's taxes for years. Most men (including almost all the guys I know) don't do any cooking/cleaning for their girlfriends/wives despite they are housewives or working women. Those women seem so happy with their guys and the guys get royalty treatments from their girlfriends doing nothing but just having a job (Which I have too). I cooked for a girl for months and yet she treated me like shit. They all want guys who ride along bikes/ cars the whole day and hit parties every night, and they tell guys like me on their face, "guys like you are only good after 30".
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
It depends on the standard to which you want things cleaned / organized / cooked. If you have higher standards, which you probably do, it's no more fair to ask him to do the work your standards than it would be to ask you to lower your standards to his level.
Relationship dynamics are changing, becoming more inclusive if women doing more than just housework. "Expectation" is a strong word. If women can go out into the work force, men can clean and cook. It's about finding the balance that is right for YOU.
People with a traditional mindset do expect women to do more. I personally think if a woman stays at home while her partner is out working, it's only natural that she does most of the work in the house, but if they both work, I think the chores should be shared.
I feel it's a nice way to bond with your partner if you share work. It can be fun, romantic, risky... could be playful with her, playfully touch each other, perhaps can lead to some hot sex in kitchen or storeroom :) Or they could talk to each other, share stories etc. Altogether a good way to bond.
Partners should do equal amounts of work for the household. That means if someone has a demanding 80 hour a week job and the other is doing 40, then the one working 40 should do more house work. We should be taking care of each other and the home we’re building together
If she really likes cleaning or something then who are you to stop her? but men should be just as active in cooking and cleaning and child care as women are, and it shouldn't be expected for women to participate more in activities that are stereotypically feminine (cleaning, cooking etc…)
The traditional stuff worked really well and the state doesn’t like that so It started mixing everything up and making everything sexist guess what men no longer want to get married now.
It’s all about teamwork in my opinion. If I have more time on my hands to those things then I'll do it and vice versa, but also depends on the day cause some days he might be a lot busier and vice versa. So teamwork!
1
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
Expected to? No. Personally, I'm a BIG fan of hiring out as much of the cleaning/cooking/housework as possible. I have zero interest in doing it and I don't expect a romantic partner to either. Just hire someone else to do it.
Of course, some girls (and some guys for that matter) really DO enjoy cooking. Or they have such a problem with other people being close to their stuff that they insist on cleaning themselves. If that's the case, go for it.
Ask yourself this question who has a cleaner living space single men or single women, and then ask yourself which gender wants things cleaner, and then answer your own question
I was going to comment that most men don't even see the dirt, but your comment it's better. If rather do the dishes myself than get aggravated when I need a pan and find it put away with food still stuck on it.
As a boy and later as a man I never expected a woman to do most of that work. If my wife worked outside the home, we would hire someone to clean it, and split whatever we couldn't or wouldn't hire out.
It is less of a gender issue but more of a tolerance issue. Whoever has a low tolerance for hygiene or high expectations for food would end up doing more.
That depends on her expectations of the man she's with. If she expects him to be the TradCon male, then you better believe it. Both parties have to give in order to get. It's a partnership. You can't just take take take and give nothing in return.
Men are just as capable of doing housework as Women. So technically, either who notices that this or that needs attention should just do it instead of expecting or depending on the other to do it.
I generally think everyone should be able to do that. But in a relationship usually there is a split of responsibilities. And usually women are more likely to do the cleaning while guys do some more heavy lifting
"Expected" is not on the duty roster. Even if they pick up the majority, we still empty the vacuum cleaner and clean the toilet. Our women are not servants but are "help metes". and I can't cook worth a damn.
My wife is a housewife. I work full time and i do almost all of the above. The trade off? Awesome sex. The irony? Too tired and exhausted to be interested in sex. Life is weird.
It should be an equal amount. At least that’s what I’d like to see. These days with women thinking they’re oh so oppressed in our gynocentric society, they aren’t doing shit
Not "expected", but I do think that a lot of women are like you in that some actually enjoy it, where not many guys do at all lol. But should guys help out sometimes? Absolutely.
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