Can I get the spark back?

[Anonymous]

Myself and a friend began texting and sexting over a year ago. We became very close and feelings quickly formed and so we started dating. She was hesitant at first but agreed and we started getting on really well until our friends found out.

All of a sudden she started acting distant with me around them and at work and was almost irritated by my existence. This coincided with her being too busy to hang out with me for 3 weeks. This all together made it feel like she was losing interest, so I tried to show more. This led to her thinking I was needy and pulling away and me thinking she was harsh and it ended up becoming toxic.

We eventually started talking and agreed to try again and then eventually agreed to start from scratch, and although we were getting on fine she still wasn't acting normal with me. We had a chat and she said she doesn't feel the spark but likes spending time with me and wants to hang out as friends. We started hanging out as friends yet still she acts odd around me, doesn't laugh at my jokes, doesn't like me touching her etc. She has lots of other friends and guys that like her so I'm not boredom or attention which is why I'm confused.

We had another chat today because I told her I'm sick of it, she doesn't want a relationship and wants to be friends, but doesn't treat me like a friend. She admitted that she would push me away in front of friends because she didn't want them being nosy about us and admitted that she shouldve said something at the time and things would've panned out differently.

However she said she doesn't feel the spark between us anymore and she doesn't want to try force attraction, but it be natural. I told her there can't be anything natural if she keeps forcing me away in front of friends and doesn't want me to touch her when we're alone. She knows I like her and is obviously comfortable with me if she keeps wanting to hang out, but I'm just so confused. Is there a way to ignite the spark again?

[quaranta]

"it feel like she was losing interest, so I tried to show more", this was really the biggest mistake here, never reason like that anymore. If things are unbalanced on your disadvantage, don't ever push the scale even lower by adding more on the plate. The more you add, the more you care (the less, the less), so let always the girl put the balance back as a required step to put anything else from your side. Of course you'd look needy otherwise, because you create debt and she feels the pressure.
And still now: why trying to touch her if she doesn't respond to that? Why not letting her search for physical contact instead? Let her build all the steps by herself this time, be more absent/busy, behave like an actual friend, get contacts with other girls.
If she really wants you, she perfectly knows you are there, but she would have to win you, if you sell yourself for a higher price this time. This is the only thing that can ignite the "spark" and that has been missing until now. And she is even basically giving you instructions by saying she wants it to be natural (besides that shows you are pushy about that if she had to reply like this), so that really means you are giving no chances for her interest to grow anywhere because you take already all the spaces with yours and are granted to her. She wants to chase you and to earn you, not to have you at her disposal only. Just like at the beginning, when you were not fully granted to her (she couldn't know).
And about friends, I guess she is either embarassed to hang around with you for some reason in front of friends, or, doesn't want them to think you are a couple, then root for you and add to the pressure of reciprocating you, that you are already posing to her alone.

[Asker]

Have you any thoughts on why she says she wants to be friends and hangs out with me more than everyone else, yet always seems like she'd rather be anywhere else and treats me like an acquaintance and not a friend?

[quaranta]

She wants to chase you but you are not letting her. It means she is concretely giving you a chance, the space, (and likes some aspects of you), but you take it all and she keeps staying turned off. The fact she is still giving you that space is precious and you should make good use of that. Other people would just move on permanently after seeing someone as clingy...

[Asker]

So I really hope to hear back from you. I think we hung out once since your reply and pretty much she said she likes me but I'm trying to force things so much she lost interest and doesn't want it forced and needs the attraction to come back naturally. A few days later she text me to hang out and I told her we should just leave it for now because there's point.

I told her there's no chemistry anymore and while she doesn't want to force a relationship, there's no point forcing a friendship either when we simply don't laugh or vibe anymore and we should just leave it. She agreed and said some space might not be the worst thing to reset, however 2 days later she reached out (which she never does), but I ended it quickly because that defeats the purpose of no contact I figured

A month has passed and I've been great! I realised I became so complacent in life and lost my way a lot, so I've been reading and exercising daily and getting on my grind.
Last week her friends starting acting weird, asking if I was seeing anyone, telling me I should text her and telling me because I went no contact its my job to reestablish it.
A few days later I sent her a text and she responded straight away. She began using lots of emojis and teasing with a lot of things I seen like tests. She told me she did miss me a bit and I jokingly said I forgot she existed. She then said I must've been happy when she didn't turn up to lunch with our friends and I said I wish I didn't turn up myself because the bill was so high. She seemed to act like she did months ago.
The following day I text in the work gc and she began replying to all my messages straight away, despite not using it ever herself leading to her friends saying to me the next day "she was really keen to text you wasn't she?" Is something going on here? Or am I reading into it too much?

[quaranta]

Thing is she gave you the instructions very precisely, needy = she escapes, minding your business = she comes closer, and there is no exception so far. You followed these rules, now she is "back". When you will show signs you are into her again, more than what she is, then she will close in herself again. This dance won't change, because she completely knows how needy you can be, by facts, so she will spot signs of that very early. You have to let her do all the moves, let her text you first, don't text her until she does, let her hint about dates, etc, and do some resistance like you did. The more you play it like that, the more she will continue wanting contacts with you.
Not sure she wants a friendship or more, though, for sure things don't "reset" in one month, but either way, if you still like her, you can't continue like this forever, now it's been a lot of time she keeps you in this "maybe" zone, I think you should give her an ultimatum next time. Either start a relationship or to let you go for no contact, at least until your feelings are completely gone (you need some months, maybe a year, and giving yourself enough time to get into someone else). Give her the ultimatum in the best moment, that is when she flirts and starts giving obvious romantic inputs. You tell her her signals look flirty but that this time you want a definitive decision from her side, no playing anymore (you deserve it, at this point it's a matter of respect).

[Asker]

So we had a staff party yesterday and she showed up and was completely different. She came over and sat with me, wanted to get me a drink and we pretty much spent the night together with her ending up coming back to mine for the night. She started apologising for playing so hard to get and playing so many silly games and regrets it. The following day she stayed around most the day and when she got home thanked me for looking after her.

Obviously I'm very happy with how she was acting and I was very confident and charismatic and showed zero signs of neediness, however I still wonder how I build on this now, during sex she said she wanted us to do something together soon, however i feel if I ask to hang out too quickly it will just seem desperate. So I was wondering how long i should wait

[Asker]

I would also like to add that she has now met my parents again, was happy to talk away to my mam and didn't seem to mind my mams comments about if we were together

[quaranta]

Oh you got to have sex with her and an apology! If she was a "normal" girl and you just got to know each other and she doesn't know about your neediness, I would say:"Ask her out now!" but we know her enough and she knows you enough... So I would say, let her take initiative again, we saw she does (she sat on you) and keep playing cool like that. Especially after sex, women often start picturing relationship things and get more attached romantically. Let her ask you "what are we now?" or similar. You don't have to be the one who asks her out or sets a relationship, she can be the one too, or at least hinting to it. One thing is sure: the more you let her put effort in this, the more she will value you, because this time she is "paying" you with her efforts to win you back, so she understands your price (and value) is higher. I think she will try to find another occasion to get another night with you at this point, or will start hinting about hanging out etc.
By keeping it like that (not needy, letting her do her moves) you are not losing chances or time, as you can see, you are actually progressing, by "doing" nothing. And she is eager to do stuff, so just let her do...

[Asker]

So I mentioned the other day I was going into town to do Christmas shopping if she wanted to come, and she replied in literally less than 5 seconds to say yes, which was nice because usually she takes ages to reply and will be unsure.
We had a great time walking around the shops and she quite clearly was really enjoying being around me and started bumping into me, laughing at all my jokes and talking to me about her godmother and best friend etc.
I had to go to work however so she offered to take my bags back to my house for me and got to chat with my parents again.
We briefly talked about doing some last minute shopping together new years eve in a city about an hour away, and she said she'd see because she's working until midnight and we would have to get up early enough I suppose.
Should I text her Friday night to see what the story is, and say there's no time rush, or should I just wait and see if she texts me? My issue is I'm a bit of a late riser, so I don't want to wake up early and get no text, but I also don't want her to tell me she's on the way and I not even showered.

Not acting needy and texting her all the time has been great for myself as I can focus on myself and not overthink stuff and she's also become a lot more comfortable and into me as a result, so I'm kinda stuck on this point hahaha

[Asker]

Christmas eve*

[quaranta]

I'd say: let her reach out in Friday, don't look like you are thinking about that more than her. I assume she knows you wake up late, and if not you might hint about that if you text again during these days (but unrelated to that scheduled meeting).
But on the other side, if she is on the way and you still have to shower... Well, whatever? She will just wait you at your place inside, you are the one to chase this time! Shower is 10 minutes, it won't harm.
And also: if she starts from home without getting a confirmation from you first, and without texting you the day before either, it means she expects you to check the phone continuously, which wouldn't be good. So don't prepare yourself to be ready for that kind of expectation, she has to reach out on time if she wants to really start from home without confirmation...
.
So far, congrats, it seems it's going perfectly.

[Asker]

So a quick update (if its any use) but she set her snapchat to where I (she selects specific people, rather than a general on/off) can see her location and active times, something which she stopped me seeing a few months back when she finally had enough of my neediness. Don't know if this means anything or not, but she only really let's close friends see her location.

We didn't end up going shopping as I was browsing shops myself when I met her on her way to work, I mentioned the going for shopping together thing again and I knew straight away when it left my mouth that I was overpursuing and could be seen to be investing too much into hanging out together too soon, a mistake on my part.

I send a general text on Christmas day to everyone (Happy Holidays and New Year to you if you celebrate!) And everyone sends the same greetings back, however she wanted to know how my day was going, what I was up to and wanted to tell me all about her day and how she was getting on too. I was also the one who ended rhe conversation to stop it going on and making it seem like I had nothing else to do, and said I'll try meet her soon but I'm quite busy at work this week. She said that sounded like super fun and I left it at that.
Should I wait for her to reach out next, or should I text when I know my schedule will be clear and ask her to
A). Come over to mine and watch a movie

Or

B). Do something more casual like bowling? I don't want to come off too strong, but id also like to play off the fact that we have slept together now so it's not off the table

[quaranta]

Yeah I think coming over may be appropriate now, and there is all this Christmas cozy atmosphere, that fits doing cozy home activities in my opinion.
In this case since it's you saying you are busy, you can reach out because she'd be probably wait for more info.
You can also propose her a more casual activity as long as it prolongs to evening so that she might suggest to come over instead, actually. Or you could tell her you didn't forget about meeting but that you are still very tired after these busy days so you may not want to do activities around, if she wants she can come over she can, otherwise for meeting around you'd reschedule for another time. So that it looks like you aren't up to "everything" with her but that your tired status comes first for you, so if she wants to get the chance to meet you, she proposes to come over as suggested, otherwise you mind your business for non-determined time.
I can't give a definitive answer but you clearly understand how the strategy works by now.
Why did you end up not meeting for shopping, anyway? Did she bail out?

[Asker]

I'm not entirely sure, but when we talked about it a week ago she said that she would have to see as she was working 7 days straight late and might be too tired to get up early to go shopping, so I told her if she texts Christmas eve morning I'll get ready and if she doesn't text then I know we're not going anywhere, which was fine by her.

I feel like when I briefly met her on her way to work the day before and mentioned it again, it probably came across as I had nothing else going on and was hung up on us getting to go shopping together, and seen as she previously seen me as needy she probably was a bit hesitant, as I feel as though she's worried I'm going to become needy again so is taking things slower herself.
I know she said her mam always shops on Christmas eve, so maybe she was going with her and doesn't feel ready to introduce me to her parents yet as that would be quite a serious and definite step from her, which she probably isn't ready for yet due to still not being 100% on me

[quaranta]

I see, a tip: don't tell her stuff like she can text or not, otherwise it looks like you are available to receive a silence to understand the "no", and she is free to do whatever she wants and you prepare yourself for any scenario. You could have told her:"Let me know the evening before", maybe.
Well not a mega mistake but remember always to make her work to do her part, don't overdo yourself behind.
Well let's see what you come up with next and how it goes about the next meeting.

[Asker]

So we went bowling today and had a great time, I found out that she didn't ask me to go shopping Christmas eve morning because she was getting her hair done (dunno why she didn't say at the time). Our evening was going better and better and we went for food after and had a chat and she was full of laughs and smiles, however said she's still on antibiotics from being ill the last few weeks so wouldn't be able to come back and watch a movie today.

When I went to get out of the car she told me to wait and she gave me some Christmas presents that she had bought for me. She kept apologising that it wasn't a lot and the wrapping wasn't great but she said she spent ages on it and I was suprised she got me something.

As it stands I was planning on going for a trip this week to the capital on the train for the day, and she seemed quite interested in coming along, but also seemed to want to play it by ear as she's still not 100%. I said to let me know Friday and then she was asking what we'd be doing, so she definitely seemed open to it, but considering it

[Asker]

(Part 2 follow up)

We went for lunch with friends the other day and I was curious how we would both act, as it tends to be at lunch with friends where she shuns me and I tended to act needy before. I showed up and she was very chatty with me and then when her best friend arrived she ran over to give her a hug and started xhatting to her while I talked to our other friend (who's also her best friends boyfriend)
He was asking me how things were getting on between us and we noticed them following us and talking but from a distance so we couldn't hear.
During the lunch she laughed at all my jokes and made no secret of hiding that we were hanging out again and I made sure to focus on other people as a piece of advice I was given was rhat "a man must love in such a way to where the woman still feels free and not tied to you". There were instances I felt she was testing me but at the end she was bouncing against me and laughing at all my jokes.

One thing I've noticed is that when I text her she tends ro respond very quickly, however if I text her to see when she's free she'll take 2 or 3 hours to respond but will always give me days she's free to see me. I think I'm doing quite well so far, and her friend mentioned that seen as she seen me as needy before she's obviously still got in the back of her mind and wants to make sure, but the fact she's giving me dates, got me a Christmas present and always looks at me or laughs at my jokes is a sign I'm at least doing enough right atm

[quaranta]

Yeah it seems you totally understood and automated the right approach, and afterall she always given you instructions (blessed) so that it's just working. I think from now on you know what to do in general and you can expect most of the outcomes to any of your inputs.

[Asker]

So things are a lot better ever since u began giving me advice I just wanted to say. Today we went on a long day trip
For the majority of thr trip she was buzzing, we were touching a lot, she couldn't stop laughing and we then went for dinner in a romantic kind of underground restaurant. I was sitting there thinking that today she willingly got up early despite not being a morning person to go on a trip wirh me and she was also comfortable enough to spend an entire day alone with me and she told me lots of personal private family info when I noticed she was just staring at me and smiling, as if she was taking in her experience with me. In this moment there seemed a weird, relationship chemistry between us.

Eventually we started getting very tired and she started to become cranky and didn't like to be touched, seemed annoyed if i flirted and when i mentioned valentines, but I kept confident and just stayed quiet. Eventually we were on the train home and had something to eat and she started becoming chatty and laughing again. We're in a weird spot where I'm still not 100% if she's seeing me as a friend or a love interest, as we have had sex, hang out a lot more and FEEL like a couple, but I feel like when I try probe for a status update she rejects all notions of it.
I tried allude to our next trip being a bit further that requires we stay a night in a hotel together and she seemed really interested and started listing things we could do. Then the topic of us spending the night together at my house came up and she said "ye I don't mind, we'll see what happens". I feel like she surely knows what I intend and if she wasn't interested she'd say no. She's starting to do things with me we done when dating (hanging out a lot, watching movies together online etc)

[quaranta]

I think after the hotel night together or after spending the night at your house, you can ask her straight if she wants to be your girlfriend and start a relationship or not, because what you are doing is not a "just a friendship" (you don't sleep with your male friends, have sex with them, flirt etc), so you are right in wondering and wanting to know what her plans are, and you want things to be clear, no games and uncertainity anymore. So you can require either a relationship, or you want to stop doing all these "couple things" so that you can focus on other girls and be available for them... Not making it sound like you "hope" in a relationship but like if you are serious about yourself and that you have to take decisions too, so this situation of uncertainity must be addressed as a "yes" or as a "no", in order to understand your next steps in your life.
After all this time of mixed signals she owes you a defined answer and considering all the couple things you do, it sounds appropriate to have "the talk". Not granted she will say "yes" but after all this time she knows you, if it's not a "yes", I think it would be forever a "maybe" and that is not healthy, you overthink from so much time already, it's not okay.

[Asker]

we hung out today and She seemed to have zero issue with me touching her anymore. She then began telling me about private family problems and really letting me in on her life and for pretty much the first time told me about her ex, and said it was toxic, he was cheating on her and her family didn't like him and as a result she has trust issues and doesn't like relationships because she thinks they're suffocating and too toxic.
I began mentioning about when we were dating last year and she was really into the convo and said I was doing things wrong but I've learned from it and she knows I was trying in hindsight. She then started telling me one of her friends was telling her she should give me another chance etc.
She said however she'd feel awkward staying at my house because my parents are there and because she's not working atm she can't afford for us to go away either.
I suppose I pushed a bit too hard because she kinda then pulled back and said "I'm trying to see if this friendship thing will work" and I kinda let her know that that's not where I'm gonna take it.

Pretty much today she was happy for me to touch her, told me her ex cheated on her so she has trust issues and even though she trusts me quite a bit, she still has one or 2 barriers left, she told me she was happy to go for a day trip next week together, started talking about when we dated and what I was doing wrong, then said her friend told her I deserve a second chance but then mentioned keeping a friend thing kinda because she thinks relationships are toxic.
I told her I feel she's just been in a bad relationship and I think she's got attachment and intimacy issues and I feel like when she gets close to me she intentionally pulls away because she's scared. She then kinda went silent and didn't say anything but I think she knows I'm right🤷‍♂️ I also mentioned that I am talking to other women atm so I've let her know I'm not waiting around either

[quaranta]

Yeah, keep your options open and require a decisive answer from her, it's either an actual friendship (with no hopes) or a relationship, now it's really a lot of time you hanged there giving her a million of chances so I think she owes you a definitive response.

[Asker]

Ye honestly I think it'll have to be just friends hahaha. We spoke about it recently and she said this is the best we've ever gotten along and we've just been friends and she thinks we work better that way and I have to accept that.
One of her friends told me that I can't expect to treat her like a friend and then be shocked when thats how she sees me.
I've began touching her for longer and in more suggestive areas and she doesn't seem to mind which I find strange. Recently she has began to tell me that she has a fear of intimacy and started telling me about non loving parents etc and she panics and shuts down when she feels love.
We still hang out a lot and I've noticed her touching me more, I've caught her playing with her hair when she looks at me, she teases me and weve started making kinky jokes with eachother. We get on super well now, we've got a very special bond, she has begun to act genuine around me and i make her laugh and feel very happy and comfortable in herself. However, she said she thinks we're better as friends and while I think she suppresses her feelings for me, and it seems like she's beginning to warm to me again, I have to accept her decision at the end of the day. It's difficult because I know I'm going to get hurt when she finds someone new (if she hasn't already) but I also care about and get along too well with her to severe our ties. She does this odd thing where she will be in a great and vibrant mood with me and talk about what we can do together that day and in general, but then all of a sudden she changes and suddenly goes from wanting to spend the rest of the day together to being tired and wanting to go home🤷‍♂️.

I guess I just gotta accept that I can't do anything now

[quaranta]

I think you just need a definitive decision or answer, so if your decision is to be just friends, then just, start dating other women at this point. Maybe, if you find another one with intimacy issues... Run away in advance, you don't want two!
I think at that point this current girl might actually get gealous and attached to you as a response but you should ignore her, ok she has the main problem but after all this push and pull and mixed signals you definitely gained a lot of "problem" too and are justified to go for your path, you gave her PLENTY of chances as well.

[quaranta]

jealous*
Also, I think women with intimacy issues end up crushing on men who are unavailable the same and give mixed signals, but that is not healthy for both. Expect her next target will be someone of that sort... But she is an adult, it's her business.

[Guy13]

You have no idea when you're being tested. You mirror her pulling away BUT do not escalate.
About 6 weeks-8 weeks in, drop sunflowers from Trader Joe's on door stoop No credit needy wussy card. You ARE GOOD AT ANON... shouldn't be a stretch for you. ;-)