What do you think of the idea that “nice guys finish last”?

[Zestyassmf1997]

My personal life experiences, as well as conversations I’ve had with girlfriends lead me to believe that it’s mostly true.

Usually True

Usually False

I don’t know/Other (explain below)

Updates

3 mo

Pretty close vote we have here.

[GuyAnswersGirls123]

I'd echo that it's not nice guys that finish last but ass-kissing doormats, weak guys, and antisocial guys who finish last.

However, let's take the extremely rare case of a genuinely altruistic guy who doesn't have weak submissive body language or use submissive words, is reasonably assertive, confident, well-liked socially, in reasonable shape, and employed.

If such a true saint of a guy motivated primarily by ethics is still getting friend-zoned left and right and getting responses like, "You're going to make a girl very lucky some day!" the last possible problem is that he doesn't value his own time.

When a person is too eager to so freely give away their time to others, the perceived value of his time plummets like hyper-inflated currency and it will be taken for granted even by decent people. It's the same way a person who flatters everyone all the time, no matter how sincere in admiration and lacking in ulterior motives, plummets the value of his compliments.

That doesn't require mind games to correct. All it requires is for him to start valuing his time and not be so eager to freely give it all away. That's generally required to maximize goodness anyway, in the same sense that a parent who tries to put an oxygen mask on their child in an airplane and passes out without putting the oxygen mask on themselves first actually puts the child at greater risk. A person who neglects their own needs and desires too much to sacrifice it on behalf of others actually isn't maximally capable of aiding others.

Such a realization and making the necessary correction can allow one so motivated to do good deeds purely for virtue to correct a lot of what causes others to take them for granted.

[boggboss]

No I wouldn't say that I would say doormats finish last also u would need to define what u mean by a nice guy as their are plenty of info showing how nice guys act when they dint get their own way

[Zestyassmf1997]

Guys who are nice to girls. Supportive, trusting, compassionate, not dramatic or inclined towards playing games or arguing.

[boggboss]

All u have described is a none toxic or abusive guy nothing to do with hoe interesting they are or if they have social skills many who think being nice will get them women have no social skills or no ability to communicate or flirt with women

[Zestyassmf1997]

Well I think generally when we think of a person bring a nice person we don’t consider things like their looks, or charisma. We consider their deeds, and their disposition towards others.

[boggboss]

Thats wrong tho as u are making the statement u only get women if u treat them like shit which is wrong the type of nice guy thats being referred to here is the type of guy that thing him being kind will get him women when that should be the standerd being nice ain't the thing that attracted women guys that treat women poorly don't attract them out of being a dick but because they have social skills so being a nice guy with some level of social skills or charisma will get women

[Zestyassmf1997]

Hold on, hold on, the guy I described was…”Supportive, trusting, compassionate, not dramatic or inclined towards playing games or arguing.” How is that the wrong sort of nice or treating someone like shit?

[boggboss]

My point exactly I never said those are not good traits but those traits alone won't get u a women if u have the social skills of cardboard and are a doormat

[boggboss]

Those are nice qualities to have but if u have no charisma and don't know how to flirt or seduce a women how will those skills ever matter

[Zestyassmf1997]

Right, and I’m saying that having poor social skills or self esteem isn’t normally what we consider when we think about someone being a nice person. Think of someone you know who’s nice. Would you think they’re less nice if they had poor social skills? Would you think they’re less nice if they had poor self esteem?

[boggboss]

From the type if guys that consider themselfs nice guys yes I wpuld normally they they lack social skills and tend to be somewhat insecure the type of guys I know irl that I would consider nice guys don't tend to have problems with women or as u say finish last

[Zestyassmf1997]

Right, but let’s say those guys you know didn’t have charisma, and had poor self esteem. Would you consider them less nice?

[boggboss]

No I wouldn't consider them less nice but in that case them being nice is not the reason they can't get girls

[Zestyassmf1997]

That’s a fair point. Do you think young men should receive better advice about the importance of confidence and charisma, then?

[boggboss]

Yes its pretty much the most important factor with looks

[Zestyassmf1997]

Yeah, I agree. Thanks for your input!

[brightpapaya]

It might be true on dating apps or in one night stand scenarios where women are going after hot jerks rather than your average nice guy, but in terms of long term relationships women are mainly looking for stability, dependability and good character (which can include many traits such as respectfulness of boundaries, helpfulness, positive attitude, etc). That's who they want to raise children with, not mean jerks who belittle them or treat them like a second choice.

If a woman is consistently going after jerks, she might suffer from low self esteem or she might have been exposed to a violent environment in her youth.

[Minahh]

Nice guys are denied to finish 😎😎

[Zestyassmf1997]

Good lord.

[KrakenAttackin]

@Minahh. This is the absolute best and most accurate comment.

[lightbulb27]

meh... I'm gonna say maybe. I see nice guys do extremely well. Are they always getting the head cheerleader as girlfriend, winning the lottery, and such. nah. But they do very well. I'd put that behind you and just enjoy being you and make no apologies for it.

[Lillywoods077]

I think that the ideology nice guys finish last is somewhat false. Because every time I hear a guy say "Nice guys finish last" he's not a nice guy. To him his idea of a "nice guy" is warped. In his head, if he takes a girl on a date or pays for dinner, he should be able to have sex. With her because he's a "nice guy" and he did a good deed. Then when the girl refuses (if she has any respect for herself), he says "Ugh, all girls are the same, nice guys always finish last". But buddy you are not a nice guy you're a prick. Yes, paying for dinner or taking a girl out is chivalrous and appreciated but she doesn't owe you anything in return she's not a prostitute and you can't pay her or sway her with dates to get in her pants. But a date is at least some kind of effort there are "nice guys" out there who will buy a girl a drink at the club and get upset when she doesn't make out with them or go as far as hooking up with them. Sickening. Now for the actual nice guys that respect women, I think it depends on the girl. Some girls love to be in toxic situations and waste their time or get heartbroken repeatedly because he's good in bed or something. They love the hot and cold behavior and love chasing men, sad. While other girls love a sweet, kind man the "nice guy" who is pursuing them the proper way. So to my genuine nice guys go after girls who will value your time, and to my fake "nice guys" get a grip and stop acting entitled to sex because you took her out. This is probably why girls don't speak to you and why YOU finish last because women talk and if a guy acts like a prick they will tell other girls and warn them, so don't be surprised by the consequences of your actions. 😀

[Billlewis]

Yes, ma'am, I think you nailed it.

[Lillywoods077]

@Billlewis THANK YOU 😛

[JHAYES317]

Ok fair but I do think sometimes women will take advantage of naive guys and use them.

[Kelley1]

It is not a matter of being a nice guy per se, it is all about looks, smarts, wealth and overall attractiveness. Girls have always been attracted to movies. star QBs, and smart, athletic, wealthy, and very good looking. Because they have girls chashing, they don't have to cater to girls so they don't appear to be very nice.

Most nice guys are simps and at best average looking without much smarts or money. Because woman are not interested in a relationship, they will do anything to please women in an attempt to catch on.

[JHAYES317]

Learn grammar if you want to make a point.

[Kelley1]

@JHAYES317 What part do you lack the capability to understand? Tell me and I will attempt to simplify it for you.

[Anonymous]

Eh. People have this annoying tendency to conflate "nice guys" with "weak guys" and to conflate "jerks/assholes" with "strong guys." When it comes to being attractive to women, the most important distinction is between strong guys and weak guys. Weak guys are unattractive REGARDLESS of how "nice" they are. Within the pool of strong guys there are BOTH nice guys and assholes. Both can have success, but it will usually be the case that the nice guys do better over the long term than the assholes do. So in that sense, nice guys do NOT finish last. BUT that only applies to the strong ones.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Do you think you do that in your own life sometimes?

[Opinion Owner]

Conflate the meaning of those terms? Not really, because I'm aware of the difference.

[Zestyassmf1997]

That’s good to hear.

[supercutebutt]

It's true. Remember when Donald "Nice Guy" Trump finished last in 2020? He is still crying about that :(

:(

[Zestyassmf1997]

Very sad.

[supercutebutt]

He is such a special insurrectionist. :( I hope he can handle finishing last again in 2024.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s an oversimplification but essentially it should be summed up as “soft guys finish last”. What I mean, is nice guys - dudes who pour their heart into women they meet too early get taken advantage of. Men who are self -actualized and self-aware are less afraid to be alone and therefore establish healthy boundaries. They are less likely to tolerate toxic or selfish behavior from a woman for the mere privilege of being with a female. They have the confidence that says he can ditch her and replace her if need be. A softer man, la king the same confidence gets used and hurt more often, thereby “finishing last”

[BazookaTrouper]

I can't speak to interpersonal relationships, but it's unfortunately very true in the business world in the US.

So many companies being run into the ground by Wolf of Wall Street wannabes abusing any and all power they can get their hands on to abuse the workers and siphon as much money for themselves as they can whilst leaving the rest of us as penniless as they can get away with. In the face of this you must be strong and stand up to them. I fear only a revolution will fix this problem.

[D_Bone_Steak]

Usually true. Women use them, dudes shit on them... and a woman will too as soon as she don't respect him. Doormats usually don't command respect.

[Anonymous]

Depends on how you look at it. I mean you could say that nice guys finish last. But if you realized how many bad women there are out there you'd realize you aren't finishing last. a lot of these women are actually doing you a favor. Being single is not finishing last. Sometimes it's actually winning the game. All this seems important at your age. But when you get a couple decades older you'll realize how many of these women do not care about ANYONE.

Just live life, enjoy it, and be a good person. And stop worrying so much about who you are or are not with. Just give those people in your life the attention the deserve.

[serious]

Yes it is true.

However, what I think is nice guys are never in the race. They have no chance against men who are skilled as far as their behavior with people are concerned.

Nice guys are only nice, they are nice all the time, they are too sweet, too soft hearted and cannot take any tough decisions or do what is right.

[myloveforuisinfinte]

Who wants to end up with a bad person?

A guy wants to end up with a nice girl
And vice versa. A girl wants to end up with a nice guy.
But they forget that they treated them shit and completely ignored them. Bruh

[Pohjolan]

"Who wants to end up with a bad person?"

For a example all the women sending love letters to serial killers they haven't even met.
Logically speaking the guy known for raping and killing his last mate should be less desirable than the average guy but this is not the case.

[myloveforuisinfinte]

That's not what I mean lmao,
I mean manipulative , toxic , cheater, lier , love open relationship kind of guys/girls. Will u marry that girl/guy who shows these kind of signs.

[wolfcat87]

Real nice guys finish first. It's the fake "nice guys" who pretend being nice is why no one wants them that finish last. Just like men who pretend they are only being rejected for being short. Most real nice men are married young and stay married. I've know tons of them.

[Zestyassmf1997]

You don’t think we sometimes tell ourselves that they were just pretending to be nice in order to justify some of our own shallowness?

[wolfcat87]

Nope

[Zestyassmf1997]

Okay, well don’t forget to vote.

[AmeerX]

So, I am 30 and I have ex fiance, so I am not a nice guy? That's what you want to say? Come on have some empathy for others.

[wolfcat87]

@AmeerX What makes you think you are a nice guy? It's not a question of empathy. Do you assume you're single because you're nice?

[AmeerX]

I never assume I am single because I am nice. Being in a relationship or not is different. I think I don't want to start the debate but you said that if a guy is nice he gets the girl. That is really non sense 😂.

It automatically means all the single women in their 30s and 40s and divorced are also not nice women. And honestly that's not how life works.

I am not even going to debate whether I am nice or not because those who know me in person know who I am. And only God knows my heart and intentions.

[wolfcat87]

@AmeerX Women never complain that nice women finish last. It's a non issue for us.

I said most nice men marry young and stay married. That's a fact that appears to have offended you.

The fact that you get so easily riled up is likely part of the problem.

[Zestyassmf1997]

So because his marriage failed that means he’s not nice, and he’s not nice because he got upset about his marriage failing?

[AmeerX]

You don't even know me. And yes it did because I am not a door mat.

And you didn't have any idea if that's how you see thing. A lot of women actually think like that too. Oh she is single in her late thirties, must be something wrong with her blah blah blah.

I on the other hand never do this.
Most nice men marry young. Wow, great 👍. That's not a fact because average age of marriage is rising world wide. Now you will say nice men are those who married young so, the stats include bad guys too.

The entire idea of marriage is based on couples being made in heavens and all. And lots of divorces also take place. Are those people also just bad men automatically. I don't even want to talk to you. You have made an impression of me in like 5 minutes of talking to me that I am a riled and I am the problem.

[wolfcat87]

@AmeerX Because you are riled up.

You really just assumed all men were nice when you tried to quote the rising age of marriage. 🤣 Oh boy, you knew it has holes in it when you said it. And, you still said it. Problematic. Most men aren't nice, silly. In no way does the fact that women are rejecting men who aren't worthy prove that nice men aren't being picked and married off young. 😒 Most still are.

Yes, most divorced men aren't nice. That's why 80% of divorces are filed by women who'd be happier without them. They are being rejected for a reason.

The fact that you keep trying to attack women in a passive aggressive way is not nice.

I wouldn't marry you, and you aren't a nice guy. I married a nice guy, and he wouldn't pick a fight over something so silly. 🤣 That's why we've been together 17 years. If you were actually nice, you might be married too.

[SotiCoto]

You ever heard of the Prisoner's Dilemma?
The long and the short of it is that while it would benefit everyone to be nice, it only takes one guy being an arsehole to ruin it for everyone... and then it is better to be an arsehole just to protect yourself. People can't be trusted not to be greedy, selfish, myopic cunts... and because of that, it is better to also be self-centred because you're just going to be exploited and screwed over if you try to play fair.

[Anonymous]

Female feel truly satisfied late. She needs proper time to get raised also satisfied. Half satisfaction is even more worse so yes I agree on this. If someone could not go for longer I'll say they should do other things more and should start late so could finish at least together not before.

[Lara_Croft]

What's a nice guy anyway? If you mean a pushover who seeks to please out of vanity then obviously he'll finish last. If you mean a Godly Godfident man, assertive and sure of himself and nice in character and treatment of people he will not finish last

[worldscolide]

I use to believe that, until I got married 11 years ago. A lot of the time these "nice guys" are anything but, and I use to have a lot of resentment toward the opposite sex until I met someone who made me want to be a better man.

[AviatorTom]

I don't really care if it's true or not. Considering many women think we guys finish too soon, there is nothing wrong, and a lot right, with finishing last.

[RingOfFire]

Depends on what game you are playing. After 45 years in the business world I would say it is true; nice guys finish last. You need to have a killer instinct if you want to be the leader of the pack. Same in politics.

In love? I've had my share of experience in that and can tell you it is definitely NOT true. A little nice goes a long way with the ladies.

[normalice]

In the sense that guys without competence tend to resort to being "nice" to get included, yes.

[rachel776]

one of the nicest guys i know is one of the top guitar players in the world and he has a wonderful wife and family