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Feminism, MGTOW, and What I Learned Playing Devils Advocate in MyTake (Page 2)
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Your post inspired me to ask the following question: How has feminism impacted your life?
All I can say is that feminism is an ideology, MGTOW is an ideology.
Feminism, can be moderate to extreme. The latter has gain force. MGT.. Is clearly extremist.
I don't call my self a feminist but I respect and value the moderate feminism, I also know that it's only limited to women rights, so guys who are suffering violence from their partner (including sexual violence) are not gonna get much or any support from the feminist community. I know that because I have notice that. There is nothing wrong with it since feminism was designed by, for women and only women, just like the MGTOW was designed by men, for men, only that the MGTOW is in certain way the manifestation of patriarchy against the waves of changes magnified by moderate and extreme feminism.
"People wont' answer the merits of a question but will say "That's not true of all people".
But if the "merits" of a question are indeed absolutist bullshit, then obviously that needs to be called out instead of answering the question as if its premise made sense.
Only 56% believe single mothers are damaged goods? That seems FAR to low--especially among a young demographic. I can't think of ANY of my friends who would have been down with dating a single mother unless the circumstances were extraordinary.
You might be right! And if women were reading this... what would you say is the reason why?
The 56% was based on the results of a GAG question poll.
Most young dudes are just getting their heads around a relationship with a woman and nowhere NEAR ready to add a KID to that mix (AND an ex who may still be somewhat involved). That's a TON of baggage.
You would think single moms would treat guys better right?
I'll be honest--I have absolutely no idea how single moms treat dudes. So as far as I know it could be much better, much worse or exactly the same as girls who don't have kids. I guess my point is that since it's an instant disqualifier for me, it doesn't really matter. Kind of like girls who are really not that attractive physically COULD very well have great personalities. Who knows? Not really the point though as far as attraction goes.
I think a lot of men do eventually grow out of that mentality. But I think it also depends on what kind of single mum we are talking about. If we mean a problematic, loud woman, who seems to be a massive burden, then even I would think she is ‘damaged goods’. A woman who is smart, appropriate but perhaps lost her husband or had to leave him because he turned out to be a cheater would be somewhat more attractive (as soon as you don’t absolutely hate kids).
At the end of the day, you can never tell. You can plan to never love a woman who already had a child with someone else but life might just get in the way.
Why would single mothers treat guys better. They just got over a relationship where the previous man was probably a dick, and now they have a kid they have to devote time and energy to.
Why would some new guy get automatic better treatment for that? If anything, the woman will probably be suspicious of the guy, and her kid will always take preference (rightly so).
Got anything else?
If you're going to be doing test to try and figure out the truth, perhaps
1. You should be legit in your questions? As in, not asking loaded or rhetorical questions?
2. You should not have already picked a side already (you're obviously on the pro-feminist side).
I subscribe to feminism, the Christina Hoff Summers version.
@Mellontikos Who are you talking to and what are you talking about?
I'm talking about the White Knight Apope16
Best thing to do is approach the dating situation via Mgtow and then if someone finds you and gives you a reason not to be one anymore, change your perspective. Don't go actively looking for disappointment. Filthy women out there just as bad as men in their own ways.
I don't think women are cowardly. I think we are tired of having to argue and defend ourselves. I used to engage a lot with right wing misogynist men online. I still do on occasion to be honest. But it is tiring after a while and nothing ever comes from it (In my experience). I just don't have the energy or the patience a lot of the time and in an age where knowledge is at our fingertips, I don't feel I should have to sit and explain certain things that are obvious or easily accessible online.
"The majority of men on GAG are right wing, neo-Libertarian types who have a strong MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) orient." This is possible, but you can't assume it just from who argues about it. A lot of users likely avoid such questions.
It's really interesting that you did this experiment, but your conclusions are clearly coming from your own bias. Can you state what that is, so we can take that into account when reading what you think?
I have no conclusions. Only observations.
Incorrect.
You said that people are more concerned about being right than exposing the true nature of their feelings. When they clarified that Your statements were not true of all people. But that was an assumption on your part. It could be true that they are more concerned about being right. It could also be true they have been attacked so many times for disagreeing with someone who expresses themselves like you, that they were afraid of the backlash. And so they intentionally censored themselves in order to avoid it.
You said the majority of men on gag are right-wing, neoliberian, with a MGTOW orient. Perhaps that's true, or perhaps those are the only people willing to debate you.
You said women have little courage because they are not defending feminism. This assumes the definition of feminism, it assumes that feminism is something that all women desire, and it assumes they only don't defend it out of cowardice. That's a lot of assumptions and conclusions, for someone who is only trying to observe.
You said 56% of men think single mothers are damaged goods and not worth dating. I won't disagree with your conclusion here, because I don't have the Data you got it from. But it makes me wonder, did they only say that those women were not worth dating? Did every man who say a single mother is not worth dating also say they were damaged goods? Or is that your interpretation?
So... your replies fall under the absolutism category stated above. You are projecting what you believe. You are simply projecting possible exceptions to the rules. Because if i said green apples taste good... you would be debating if the apples were truly green or what proof i had that they were green. .. rather than telling me whethet you likef the taste. Haha
Not exactly. More like I am stating my conclusions and my understanding. And I'm owning it as my conclusions in my understanding. This is what I see. This is my perspective. I'm comfortable saying that. I was just pointing out that you were making conclusions, assumptions, and you are also unwilling to own where you are coming from
Yeah, your second section on "absolutism" hilariously follows your first assertions that "EVERYONE" attacked you for being one thing or the other.
You're a knobend. Not because of what you believe about men or women, but because you don't know how to draw a conclusion or express it convincingly. You have no business doing social experiments because you're clearly incapable of learning anything from them.
Most people are arsewholes. Don't get caught up in their madness.
I spoke to a feminist the other day, said something, she didn't attack me, I didn't attack her.
They are not bad people, some of them are just insane, they can't help it.
Hey I just did a my take about Chess, play chess against a patriarch smashing
Fluffy muff diving bushpig, beat them too, then tell them they can have two gay king's if they don't like it. It's all Greek to me anyway.
Dude deliberately says inflammatory things for the clout. Doesn't get the attention he wanted:
"I was just playing devil's advocate and pretending the whole time hehe y'all salty"
Yep. I am not complaining perse. I am just pointing out the observations that I see.
FOr example. imagine a guy doint a social experiment and saying that the holocaust never existed. and the response on gag is "good point man I agree' and nobody responds by calling the guy insane... well you would be surprised right?
You say most men on G@G are right wing. What do you base this one? If the majority of men that commented on your post were rightwing, that doesn't mean most men on the entire G@G site share their view.
You're just scratching the surface. The underlying truth is that almost all human behavior, other than basic survival functions, is a grab at superiority. Feminists, MGTOWs, internet trolls, bullies, instagrammers, whatever. Once you realise that no matter the comment or content, it's all just different iterations of "I'm better than you", you tend to move on to activities that are more productive.
Mgtow aren't anti feminist. The men's rights movement is anti feminist. Mgtow just realized that society sees men as disposable but that's not going to change. Ever. So we just check out of society. But the thing is society is built and maintained by men. That's why mgtow gets such scorn, because if enough men go mgtow society collapses
That's like saying society is built by white people... the reality is that blacks were enslaved. Women too were denied rights and were simply not allowed to build society.
I hope you do realize the idiocy of your statement. Every living man ever created came out of a woman's women after she carried the child for 9 months. Sooooo your entire statement really is hilarious. YOu wouldn't even exist without a woman.
Not arguing that but if you think that women can build and maintain societies then where are all the matriarchal societies. Where have they been throughout history. If women had it so bad throughout history why didn't they fight for thier rights earlier in history. Awful convenient that they complain about how unfairly they were treated after men invented the technology to make the harsh brutal world into a safe and comfortable world to live in.
Yes women carry and birth children. But that's hardly the same as Building a civilization
Also realy slavery, you are aware that every race including white people have been enslaved at one point throughout history right.
You can make all the emotional appeals you want, but the facts and data prove ne right
Women did fight for their rights early on. Just in millions of different and subtle ways. Women are cunning and manipulative. so they had alternative strategies that influenced men in non threatening ways. The power of charm and sex to influence men making one decision versus another. Just like a slave on a plantation. They weren't all Nat Turners engaging in rebellion. Sometimes if mad at their master they worker slower, or spit in their master's food, or gave food poisoning, or smuggled people to freedom, or wrote freedom songs.
But you act like a dude who doesn't even realize that women were Queens. Cleopatra, Queen Elizabeth I, Queen Victoria (The Great). There were many women in history who DID hold power and DID advance their countries. Ever hear of Shakespeare? He wrote during the Elizabethean Age. Ever hear of freakin Cleaopatra? Who do you think influenced the mighty Julius Caesar? Who do you think had Marc Antony tied around her little finger changing the world forever?
Sure women were queens... of civilizations built by men , also Cleopatra... dude she destroyed the Egyptian civilization not a good example that one.
Yes women can be manipulative that's actually why a lot of men have started going mgtow.
@Apope16
Western Civilisation and the society in which you live (I assume that you are in the USA) WAS built by white people.
Your statement that women were 'denied rights' shows that you have been indoctrinated with the Marxist/Feminist fantasy of history.
There was a social contract between men and women, which was a result of a woman's biology (someone had to have the babies).
In most of the English-speaking world, before the 20th Century franchise was determined by property ownership.
That system worked far better than what we have today. Put a pin on a graph to show when universal suffrage was granted, then overlay that with the beginning of the collapse of Western Civilisation. The relationship will be self evident.
Your misogny is showing. First of all, who cares if past civilizations were built by men or not? The question is what should the future look like. I can tell you for a fact that civilizations have risen and fallen like the setting of the sun. Judging by your argument, we could say that men are replaceable. Greece is gone. Rome is gone. the British Empire is no more. The Ottoman Empire is no more. And America is next.
The civilizations that were built by men were quite frankly pretty shitty and are shitty to this day.
But I find it funny the contradiction in your argument. What you are basically saying is that the contributions of women to civilization simply should be ignored and dont exist. First, it is the Nietzsche "Uberman" argument that it some powerful super hero that changes the world. Well in that belief then why not represent powerful women queens who ruled their countries and made decisions that changed the fate of the world?
Like.. exactly what do you even mean by men "built civilization"? You mean physically built it? made decisions? raised children? LIke what on earth are you talking about? Because women have done all of these things. It just hasn't been written about by patriarchal society.
By built civilization I mean built the infrastructure, made and enforced the laws , provided protection aka a military, and grow the food.
And no I'm not dismissing women's contributions, I clearly stated they birth children.
Your over valuing women's contributions. Above you stated that I would not exist without a woman, does it not occur to you that I also wouldn't exist without a man.
And no I'm not misogynistic I dont hate women, I just don't particularly care about them either.
Also if all civilizations built by men are so shitty I'll ask again where are the female built civilizations.
Also uberman no not even slightly if anything your ubermanning women's contributions.
And if you wanna see a female led futur take a look at sweden. Muslim no go zones where laws are not enforced. A collapsing economy. Birthrates far below replacement well at least for the native population.
Under the leadership of queens, women made and enforced laws. With that said, your mentions of infrastructure and military are good. But that is by no means the only important aspect of society. The so called domestification that women brought to the family was extremely important to the family nucleus and building society. But what you dont realize is women werent allowed by legal sanction and penalty. .. to contribute in other ways. That doesn't make men better. It just makes the inferior assholes.
exactly, Men earned what they have. Women did not. We built and invent almost everything. If women want more control they need to build their own. But sadly they rather play victim.
You generalize about everything.
"Women Have Little Courage"
What a bunch of horseshit. I take on men here every day. I'd take you on in person too.
MGTOW guy here. I would like to be proven that women don't have it better than anyone else on the planet in the west?
The only disadvantage they have is their own inability to choose a better man because he is 1 or 2 points below in looks vs the "hot" guys who just want to pump and dump.
These comments prove my points above very clearly
Points? I would agree that his remark about looks, hot guys, and an inability to choose made little sense (and I re read it), but he is spot-on in saying that women (esp. white women) are the most privileged creatures on the planet.
Yes I know, and I don't give a shit about your sneakiness. The onus is on you to prove otherwise.
@glenns Aren't there like 100 Tinder studies now, that clearly show that men will swipe right on almost all the women except the really hideous ones, but women will ignore most of them, and only swipe right on the hottest 10% of men?
What's so hard to understand about that?
So unable to prove? That's what I thought.
Instead of standing for women and standing for men and spreading hate across the sexes. Can we all fight for equality, then everyone wins.
The results are not at all surprising. I've wasted my time reading this "Take"
"56% of men believe that single mothers are damaged goods and are not worth dating"
Only 56%? This worries me as it implies 44% of the male population are Simps, soy boi's, white knights, and pedophiles.
Empowering women and men and having them protected is helpful in areas where women and men are treated badly, violating human rights. (e. g. Fgm, rape culture, etc)