If the woman did not wish to carry the baby to term and there was a safe way to transfer the fetus to a surrogate, then I would say a law that gave the father the option to do so would be a reasonable legal requirement of the mother who did not wish to have the child.
I don't think that technology exists right now. But perhaps that day is not so far off. At the present however, there are few options for the man if the woman decides to abort her pregnancy.
Of course this has to be looked at in historical context.
1. A woman who became pregnant out of wedlock was in many cases an outcast.
2. If the woman was married and became pregnant, she had no ( safe/legal) option for abortion, even if her husband agreed.
I knew a woman who's mother in the early 1900's killed herself because her husband made her have one child after another. She just could not take it, and suicide seemed the only way out.
Of course the optimal situation is to be in a committed relationship where there is discussion and agreement about having children before one is confronted with pregnancy.
With all the options for birth control available, including celibacy, an unexpected pregnancy can be a very rare thing. Yet even with this it would be wise to discuss what would be done if a pregnancy should occur. If there is strong disagreement then it would be better to skip the sex, rather than a heart-rending war between two people who otherwise care about each other.
Ignoring consequences does not make them go away, they will happen. Why not "think it through" first?
I think most men that have their girlfriend/wife/someon they had sex with pregnant have the right to say what they think. I think that most women listen to their partner when it comes to abortion. But women should have the last say: it's them who'll give birth to that child, maybe breast feed him et cetera. The baby is in their body, not in the partner's. Also, if the mother doesn't want the child, but still keeps him he'll probably have a terribile childhood, even if the father dearly loves him. It would be the same if the things were the other way round.
It's just a tricky situation all around. I do think that a guy should have a say in the decision. It's sad to say that most times, the guy is the one pushing for the abortion while the girl wants to keep it. In situations where the guy wants to keep it while the girl doesn't, you run into a wall of problems. Since the female is the one carrying the child, it's really hard for a guy to fight. They don't have to go through all that comes with being pregnant. And if I were in the situation (I personally would keep my baby no matter what), the one thing that would be in my mind is what if he changes his mind? It's very easy for guys to just walk away. So what if a guy pushes for the girl to keep the baby and still bails? I've seen that happen before, and the mom resents her kid because she never him.
Except the women is the one carrying the baby and has to deal with pregnancy for 9 months. It is her body. No, you shouldn't get a say in it since you're not the one who has to deal with pregnancy and the effects on the body after pregnancy. Lets use women as incubators and make them carry babies they don't want. You're saying it's "unfair". Yes, its unfair that although it takes two to get pregnant she's the only one who it will affect physically and can have permanent damage or changes to her body. No, you shouldn't get a say. I do agree with "financial abortions" though. If a woman wants to keep the baby and the man doesn't he can have the option to financially"abort" it.
@gotc147 I don't get your comment? I already said in my post that I agree with "financial abortions" which means the man wouldn't have to pay child support or anything like that. You should read what people type before replying.
A woman shouldn't have to carry a child she doesn't want. Men don't have to deal with nine months of pregnancy or childbirth. If a woman doesn't want to go through that, she shouldn't have to.
I feel that, yes, she should consult with the father but, ultimately, it's her decision.
I agree the man should have a say but these days women are getting knocked up and aborting their kids because men don't want them or the women don't want them. I have never heard of a woman aborting a child that a man actually wants to take care of. I'm not saying that it has not happened or it is not possible but realistically this sort of thing is not really happening right now. If more men would own up to laying down with women unprotected and not just say get rid of it or I don't want it and the baby isn't mine, more women would not be aborting their children so until that happens nothing will change.
I've heard it happen a lot actually. Two of my guy friends get nightmares & cry themself to sleep at night bc their kid was aborted without their consent.
I'm sorry to hear that really is horrible that a man actually wants to take care of his kids and a woman aborted it, but this isn't really common that is the point i'm making.
Though I understand where you're coming from and feel sorry for men that actually want the kid, I still don't think men truly understand how hard pregancy is. At the end of the day, the woman's the one who's effected. Her body is put through hell and back for a child she doesn't want. She'll have to take time away from her career, in constant pain, and judged daily all for a kid she doesn't want. As much as we hate to think of it this way, fetuses are Parasites, taking away from her nutrition and energy constantly. I think if there was a way to just let the father carry the child and the woman just pay him, it'd be perfect, but it doesn't work that way.
Like I always say, the guy has the right to voice his opinion. But in the end, it's the woman's body, and he can't force her to go through 9 months of painful pregnancy if it's not something she wants. Yes, it's unfair, but this is simply nature, and there's nothing we can do about it. If it was possible, to ideal option would be to transfer the child from the woman's womb into the "womb" of a guy. But obviously guys don't have wombs. A woman's right to bodily integrity will ALWAYS matter more than a mere opinion of a guy. That's just how it is. Until we find a way to create male wombs, or artificial wombs to transfer the baby into, thus giving both parties what they want, this is just something men will have to deal with. As long as you're not the one carrying the child for 9 months, the decision ultimately does NOT lie in your hands.
@gotc147 thankfully that will never be an issue since I'm not going to have sex with you, nor will I ever give birth to a child whose father isn't in the picture.
@gotc147 and generally guys have the right to refuse responsibility as a father if they give up their parental rights. It's a thing. I don't know why guys are acting like it's not a thing.
If the woman didn't want the baby and the father paid for all the medical bills she would still have to go through nine months of being pregnant, give birth, and possibly cause detrimental damage to her body for something she didn't want. All so he could have what he wanted? Being pregnant isn't just gaining weight. Its entitles a lot of stress, chemical changes in the body, pain, sickness, time out of work for the doctor visits and much more than what you make it seem. I understand your opinion but I don't think you thought of all the sides to it.
As much as it sounds unfair, if the man really wants a child he should have a prior conversation on life goals and children and make sure the woman is on the same page.
I don't want kids and would off course have protected sex if I were to get into another relationship. However, let's say the protection still didn't work and I end up pregnant, if he knew my stand (basically he knew with who he was getting with) on this very well from the start then why should I be force to carry a baby I won't want?
Now if the woman suddenly changed her mind and secretly has an abortion... ok then it's bad that she didn't told him and at the point, he's in his rights to break up.
"However if the woman doesn't want the child she has the option to abort it, without having to consult with the father in any way which I think is unfair. If a man is willing and able to take care of a child without the woman, he should be allowed to say no! "
I agree to a large extent, but I have a problem forcing a woman to give birth, essentially against her wishes just because the father wants to parent with or without the mother. I know it sucks, and as a guy who is about to be a dad it seems hard to deal with that a child you want won't ever be. however, knowing what goes into "cooking" a child for 9 months and then giving birth to that child I don't think I could expect a woman to go through that just to give the child away if that wasn't something she wanted to do
Honestly, it should be the decision of the woman because she has to go through the pain of bearing the fetus for 9 months and the man does not, so there. And everyone who says "then why'd she have sex then" be quiet cuz woman have sexual desires too and even with birth control pills an condoms shit still happens.
lol and the man doesn't go through the suffering of labouring to support the baby? since he is obligated to pay child support he should have a saying as well. there are much worse things than child bearing pain
All women should tell the guy she is pregnant and if she wants an abortion. The issue with the guy having a saying on it is. She would end up being forced to go through all that pain and body changed for 9 months. Then hand the guy the baby and he take care of it. Does that really seem that reasonable to ask a women to do? I mean there could be complications and stuff. All the guy can do is just watch till the baby is born. An abortion isn't just that they don't want to take care of a baby or have the money to do it. It's mainly they don't want to go through those 9 months and then give the baby up.
i totally get where you're coming from and i respect your opinion but i don't think i agree. there's a lot more that comes with pregnancy than just paying for all the doctor's appointments, ultrasounds, etc. the female body goes through a LOT of changes during that time what with hormone fluctuations, changes in appearance, morning sickness, and i'm sure there are other things i'm not thinking of since i've never been through a pregnancy. the man can't take these from the woman and handle them himself. the woman is the one who has to go through the pregnancy for those nine months not to mention deal with permanent changes after giving birth and for that reason i definitely think the woman should have more say in whether or not she aborts.
i'm sorry, but no. Men need to find women that actually want kids. It is unhealthy for a woman to be miserable and carrying your child. it actually has damaging effects on a fetus. I think depression actually killed my son because I was exhausted mentally physically. I couldn't eat, I was sick and I had severe back pain. I can't remember feeling worse.
These guys dont want kids, they want to be able to dump a girl they got pregnant, without paying child support. AND they want to deny her choice of an abortion.
@jacquesvol "These guys dont want kids, they want to be able to dump a girl they got pregnant, without paying child support. AND they want to deny her choice of an abortion."
You make a lot of assumptions. Grouping all of these guys together. I think a lot of guys and women avoid sex like that and don't support killing unborn children before they get a chance to live.
Men rightly get a say insofar as asking a partner what they would want, if they would be okay carrying a pregnancy, before it happens. If the man could gestate the pregnancy or artificially gestate it, it would be different. As it is, a pregnancy carries far more health, financial, and social implications than one can reasonably be expected to endure for an unwanted pregnancy. Not to mention, what are her motivations for staying the course (no alcohol, no smoking, etc) for a healthy pregnancy if she's forced into it?
I never thought about that, but I agree with your take. I am a personal believer in personal responsibility, something that is lacking in this world today. I would think that a woman through consensual sex would never want to kill a fetus/potential baby. The two people made the decision to have consensual sex and being ADULTS the risks are fully known or (should be). Also, if I was a man I would want to be with a woman who if in a relationship with me would never consider abortion. But this is all my opinion and it easy for me to say since I am a man.
lol, no woman is going to agree that their man should get any sort of say (that has any actual weight/power) concerning pregnancy. You are better off going with option B, which is to allow men to reject parenthood and their financial responsibility if they so choose.
Maybe not, but the feminist movement is losing support faster than MSNBC is losing viewers, so perhaps within my lifetime, though I'm not making any wagers.
“if two people decide to have sex, they also agree to all the consequences that go along with it which include things like the possibility of getting pregnant!”
Well I agree with this much of your post
Under the law the consequence is that the mother have the choice and rightfully that’s where the choice should remain because she bears the consequence of carrying and birthing the child.
Now you as the prospective father know this going in so accept the consequences or don’t put your d in the babymaker.
I understand what you're saying, but I completely disagree. No woman should be forced to carry a child to term that she doesn't want. That's detrimental to the child because it may be seen as "unwanted" and the child may grow up in a one parent home if the mother decides to abandon it.
Just like a woman who wants to have the child. If protection had been used, this wouldn't be a problem. And yes, I think it's fair for him to help pay or raise the child that he doesn't want... because HE contributed in the mistake. Unless if she sabatoged his condoms or told him she was on the pill when she wasn't, then I don't think he should but I would HOPE many men would understand that that little being is theirs as well so why wouldn't you want to help it?
"And yes, I think it's fair for him to help pay or raise the child that he doesn't want... because HE contributed in the mistake. Unless if she sabatoged his condoms or told him she was on the pill when she wasn't, then I don't think he should but I would HOPE many men would understand that that little being is theirs as well so why wouldn't you want to help it?"
If she tried to trap him, he shouldn't pay. But I would hope that most guys would pay anyway because that's their kid whether they like it or not.
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99Opinion
An interesting question.
If the woman did not wish to carry the baby to term and there was a safe way to transfer the fetus to a surrogate, then I would say a law that gave the father the option to do so would be a reasonable legal requirement of the mother who did not wish to have the child.
I don't think that technology exists right now. But perhaps that day is not so far off.
At the present however, there are few options for the man if the woman decides to abort her pregnancy.
Of course this has to be looked at in historical context.
1. A woman who became pregnant out of wedlock was in many cases an outcast.
2. If the woman was married and became pregnant, she had no ( safe/legal) option for abortion, even if her husband agreed.
I knew a woman who's mother in the early 1900's killed herself because her husband made her have one child after another. She just could not take it, and suicide seemed the only way out.
Of course the optimal situation is to be in a committed relationship where there is discussion and agreement about having children before one is confronted with pregnancy.
With all the options for birth control available, including celibacy, an unexpected pregnancy can be a very rare thing. Yet even with this it would be wise to discuss what would be done if a pregnancy should occur. If there is strong disagreement then it would be better to skip the sex, rather than a heart-rending war between two people who otherwise care about each other.
Ignoring consequences does not make them go away, they will happen. Why not "think it through" first?
I think most men that have their girlfriend/wife/someon they had sex with pregnant have the right to say what they think. I think that most women listen to their partner when it comes to abortion. But women should have the last say: it's them who'll give birth to that child, maybe breast feed him et cetera. The baby is in their body, not in the partner's.
Also, if the mother doesn't want the child, but still keeps him he'll probably have a terribile childhood, even if the father dearly loves him. It would be the same if the things were the other way round.
Are you really 13? o:
It's just a tricky situation all around. I do think that a guy should have a say in the decision. It's sad to say that most times, the guy is the one pushing for the abortion while the girl wants to keep it. In situations where the guy wants to keep it while the girl doesn't, you run into a wall of problems. Since the female is the one carrying the child, it's really hard for a guy to fight. They don't have to go through all that comes with being pregnant. And if I were in the situation (I personally would keep my baby no matter what), the one thing that would be in my mind is what if he changes his mind? It's very easy for guys to just walk away. So what if a guy pushes for the girl to keep the baby and still bails? I've seen that happen before, and the mom resents her kid because she never him.
Never wanted*
Except the women is the one carrying the baby and has to deal with pregnancy for 9 months.
It is her body. No, you shouldn't get a say in it since you're not the one who has to deal with pregnancy and the effects on the body after pregnancy.
Lets use women as incubators and make them carry babies they don't want.
You're saying it's "unfair". Yes, its unfair that although it takes two to get pregnant she's the only one who it will affect physically and can have permanent damage or changes to her body.
No, you shouldn't get a say.
I do agree with "financial abortions" though.
If a woman wants to keep the baby and the man doesn't he can have the option to financially"abort" it.
When you open your legs, you consent to the possible consequences, same as men.
OR the father is not held responsible in any way, shape or form, meaning no child support.
Pick one.
@gotc147 I don't get your comment?
I already said in my post that I agree with "financial abortions" which means the man wouldn't have to pay child support or anything like that.
You should read what people type before replying.
A woman shouldn't have to carry a child she doesn't want. Men don't have to deal with nine months of pregnancy or childbirth. If a woman doesn't want to go through that, she shouldn't have to.
I feel that, yes, she should consult with the father but, ultimately, it's her decision.
I agree the man should have a say but these days women are getting knocked up and aborting their kids because men don't want them or the women don't want them. I have never heard of a woman aborting a child that a man actually wants to take care of. I'm not saying that it has not happened or it is not possible but realistically this sort of thing is not really happening right now. If more men would own up to laying down with women unprotected and not just say get rid of it or I don't want it and the baby isn't mine, more women would not be aborting their children so until that happens nothing will change.
I've heard it happen a lot actually. Two of my guy friends get nightmares & cry themself to sleep at night bc their kid was aborted without their consent.
I'm sorry to hear that really is horrible that a man actually wants to take care of his kids and a woman aborted it, but this isn't really common that is the point i'm making.
Though I understand where you're coming from and feel sorry for men that actually want the kid, I still don't think men truly understand how hard pregancy is. At the end of the day, the woman's the one who's effected. Her body is put through hell and back for a child she doesn't want. She'll have to take time away from her career, in constant pain, and judged daily all for a kid she doesn't want. As much as we hate to think of it this way, fetuses are Parasites, taking away from her nutrition and energy constantly. I think if there was a way to just let the father carry the child and the woman just pay him, it'd be perfect, but it doesn't work that way.
Like I always say, the guy has the right to voice his opinion. But in the end, it's the woman's body, and he can't force her to go through 9 months of painful pregnancy if it's not something she wants. Yes, it's unfair, but this is simply nature, and there's nothing we can do about it. If it was possible, to ideal option would be to transfer the child from the woman's womb into the "womb" of a guy. But obviously guys don't have wombs.
A woman's right to bodily integrity will ALWAYS matter more than a mere opinion of a guy. That's just how it is. Until we find a way to create male wombs, or artificial wombs to transfer the baby into, thus giving both parties what they want, this is just something men will have to deal with. As long as you're not the one carrying the child for 9 months, the decision ultimately does NOT lie in your hands.
Also, men already have the right to give up their parental status as fathers, as far as I'm concerned.
Get an abortion if you want, I don't care.
But don't come after me to pay for a kid I didn't want.
@gotc147 thankfully that will never be an issue since I'm not going to have sex with you, nor will I ever give birth to a child whose father isn't in the picture.
I was speaking generally.
@gotc147 and generally guys have the right to refuse responsibility as a father if they give up their parental rights. It's a thing. I don't know why guys are acting like it's not a thing.
Giving up parental rights doesn't mean they give up financial responsibility.
@gotc147 oh, you're right. Wellp, in that case it is unfair.
If the woman didn't want the baby and the father paid for all the medical bills she would still have to go through nine months of being pregnant, give birth, and possibly cause detrimental damage to her body for something she didn't want. All so he could have what he wanted? Being pregnant isn't just gaining weight. Its entitles a lot of stress, chemical changes in the body, pain, sickness, time out of work for the doctor visits and much more than what you make it seem. I understand your opinion but I don't think you thought of all the sides to it.
I don't think you are thinking on child side
As much as it sounds unfair, if the man really wants a child he should have a prior conversation on life goals and children and make sure the woman is on the same page.
I don't want kids and would off course have protected sex if I were to get into another relationship. However, let's say the protection still didn't work and I end up pregnant, if he knew my stand (basically he knew with who he was getting with) on this very well from the start then why should I be force to carry a baby I won't want?
Now if the woman suddenly changed her mind and secretly has an abortion... ok then it's bad that she didn't told him and at the point, he's in his rights to break up.
"However if the woman doesn't want the child she has the option to abort it, without having to consult with the father in any way which I think is unfair. If a man is willing and able to take care of a child without the woman, he should be allowed to say no! "
I agree to a large extent, but I have a problem forcing a woman to give birth, essentially against her wishes just because the father wants to parent with or without the mother. I know it sucks, and as a guy who is about to be a dad it seems hard to deal with that a child you want won't ever be. however, knowing what goes into "cooking" a child for 9 months and then giving birth to that child I don't think I could expect a woman to go through that just to give the child away if that wasn't something she wanted to do
Honestly, it should be the decision of the woman because she has to go through the pain of bearing the fetus for 9 months and the man does not, so there. And everyone who says "then why'd she have sex then" be quiet cuz woman have sexual desires too and even with birth control pills an condoms shit still happens.
lol and the man doesn't go through the suffering of labouring to support the baby? since he is obligated to pay child support he should have a saying as well. there are much worse things than child bearing pain
All women should tell the guy she is pregnant and if she wants an abortion. The issue with the guy having a saying on it is. She would end up being forced to go through all that pain and body changed for 9 months. Then hand the guy the baby and he take care of it. Does that really seem that reasonable to ask a women to do? I mean there could be complications and stuff. All the guy can do is just watch till the baby is born. An abortion isn't just that they don't want to take care of a baby or have the money to do it. It's mainly they don't want to go through those 9 months and then give the baby up.
i totally get where you're coming from and i respect your opinion but i don't think i agree. there's a lot more that comes with pregnancy than just paying for all the doctor's appointments, ultrasounds, etc. the female body goes through a LOT of changes during that time what with hormone fluctuations, changes in appearance, morning sickness, and i'm sure there are other things i'm not thinking of since i've never been through a pregnancy. the man can't take these from the woman and handle them himself. the woman is the one who has to go through the pregnancy for those nine months not to mention deal with permanent changes after giving birth and for that reason i definitely think the woman should have more say in whether or not she aborts.
i'm sorry, but no. Men need to find women that actually want kids. It is unhealthy for a woman to be miserable and carrying your child. it actually has damaging effects on a fetus. I think depression actually killed my son because I was exhausted mentally physically. I couldn't eat, I was sick and I had severe back pain. I can't remember feeling worse.
These guys dont want kids, they want to be able to dump a girl they got pregnant, without paying child support. AND they want to deny her choice of an abortion.
@jacquesvol "These guys dont want kids, they want to be able to dump a girl they got pregnant, without paying child support. AND they want to deny her choice of an abortion."
You make a lot of assumptions. Grouping all of these guys together. I think a lot of guys and women avoid sex like that and don't support killing unborn children before they get a chance to live.
@ComDom
Then it would only be the keyboard warriors on the internet who want that? Let's hope.
Men rightly get a say insofar as asking a partner what they would want, if they would be okay carrying a pregnancy, before it happens. If the man could gestate the pregnancy or artificially gestate it, it would be different. As it is, a pregnancy carries far more health, financial, and social implications than one can reasonably be expected to endure for an unwanted pregnancy. Not to mention, what are her motivations for staying the course (no alcohol, no smoking, etc) for a healthy pregnancy if she's forced into it?
I never thought about that, but I agree with your take. I am a personal believer in personal responsibility, something that is lacking in this world today. I would think that a woman through consensual sex would never want to kill a fetus/potential baby. The two people made the decision to have consensual sex and being ADULTS the risks are fully known or (should be). Also, if I was a man I would want to be with a woman who if in a relationship with me would never consider abortion. But this is all my opinion and it easy for me to say since I am a man.
I can tell you're a god lover.
lol, no woman is going to agree that their man should get any sort of say (that has any actual weight/power) concerning pregnancy. You are better off going with option B, which is to allow men to reject parenthood and their financial responsibility if they so choose.
I've been arguing that for years.
@gotc147
i dont see that kind of thing happening any time soon, but its probably the better option of the two
Maybe not, but the feminist movement is losing support faster than MSNBC is losing viewers, so perhaps within my lifetime, though I'm not making any wagers.
“if two people decide to have sex, they also agree to all the consequences that go along with it which include things like the possibility of getting pregnant!”
Well I agree with this much of your post
Under the law the consequence is that the mother have the choice and rightfully that’s where the choice should remain because she bears the consequence of carrying and birthing the child.
Now you as the prospective father know this going in so accept the consequences or don’t put your d in the babymaker.
If you have unprotected sex and get an STD should you also deal with the consequences instead of properly treating it?
@-Asca-
Pro life tip: don’t have unprotected sex
It can result in pregnancy and stds. You can thank me later for this amazing advice that will save you lots of trouble in the future.
Wow what a genius you are. It still doesn't solve the hypocrisy in your way of thinking.
@-Asca- there’s no hypocrisy in it. If you don’t agree with the person that carries the baby don’t fuck her. It’s not hard.
I understand what you're saying, but I completely disagree. No woman should be forced to carry a child to term that she doesn't want. That's detrimental to the child because it may be seen as "unwanted" and the child may grow up in a one parent home if the mother decides to abandon it.
Just like a woman who wants to have the child. If protection had been used, this wouldn't be a problem. And yes, I think it's fair for him to help pay or raise the child that he doesn't want... because HE contributed in the mistake. Unless if she sabatoged his condoms or told him she was on the pill when she wasn't, then I don't think he should but I would HOPE many men would understand that that little being is theirs as well so why wouldn't you want to help it?
Being consulted is different than having a voice though. The one who makes the decision will be the woman.
Yeah I'm sure you'd have no problem with taking him to court to make him pay child suppport if she did keep it either.
Hey kid? Want to try reading it again?
"And yes, I think it's fair for him to help pay or raise the child that he doesn't want... because HE contributed in the mistake. Unless if she sabatoged his condoms or told him she was on the pill when she wasn't, then I don't think he should but I would HOPE many men would understand that that little being is theirs as well so why wouldn't you want to help it?"
If she tried to trap him, he shouldn't pay. But I would hope that most guys would pay anyway because that's their kid whether they like it or not.