Isn’t this technically the same (see the paragraph below)?

[DizzyDesii]

“I have not drank alcohol since ___ but I do still cook with vanilla extract and I did eat some rumballs last weekend.”… The topic is SOBER. BEING SOBER. Correct me if I’m wrong because I don’t know much about alcohol, but is that not still getting damn near drunk? Is that not like taking a shot of alcohol? Isn’t that about the same as I don’t smoke weed but I eat edibles? Is this not manipulative to tell someone you’re no longer drinking and not expect them to realize that you may not be drinking but you’re still getting intoxicated through food? Fck i wish I would have caught on sooner. #FeelFreeToList

Shit is starting to look like this… 🤦‍♀️

Updates

4 mo

I don't know if he can be considered recovering since i didn't know he had an actual issue until recently. He told me he quit cold turkey in January (before we met). That later changed to “i just drink with my food when at restaurants”. That later changed to getting drunk at school twice then once vomiting blood. That later changed to i quit. Which later changed to doing it again and referring to himself as an addict on Thanksgiving. he's supposedly been sober all December yet won't attend AA

Updates

4 mo

so i asked if his mom baked the rumballs. She didn't, so straight alcohol. He claims he only took ONE to be polite. Bullshit. See he won't tell anyone about his issue for fear of his boss finding out and i dont like being the only one to know. But his parents also let him start drinking at 17 and they are horrible people in general so they wouldn't help. I told him he must've craved the the taste to the point that he found a way to “cheat on his diet”. But he claims thats not how it works…

[NathanDavis]

he's been lying to himself and too others too much that... he cannot longer see a lie as a lie

you will, because they will be lies, but to him... it's not a lie, it no longer feels like one

[DizzyDesii]

Im so confused that he be having me questioning when its a lie. I feel gaslighted somehow

[NathanDavis]

unfortunately... alcoholics do this to everyone and to themselves and many times they just lose everyone this way, if he keeps lying about it, might be because he's no longer able "to care"

[NathanDavis]

that's called relapsing... not recovering

[DizzyDesii]

But is he even an alcoholic? (Outside of him calling himself that). He calls himself that because he said he doesn't want to stop bt is trying so that he doesn't lose me. Bt other than that, I've never seen him drink (i akways find out too late) so is he really an alcoholic if it seems like he barely drinks?

[NathanDavis]

most alcoholics have had years and years of experience with two things... "hiding their drinking"

and turning the people around them into enablers... this means, confusing them, tricking them, and telling them all the time "yes but no" "I am not but I am" "I did not but I did"

just consider the fact that, a few pilots have managed to trick an entire airport to fly drunk... so many times... that's what alcoholics do, unfortunately

[DizzyDesii]

He won't even go to AA cause he doesn't want his boss finding out from someone around town. If he was still flying, i’d snitch on him. But he mainly just fixes the aircrafts now which i guess is still a big deal. Ugh I don't know what to do. Im not even in his job town and dont want to ruin his life. I know he once mentioned having started drinking at like 17 or 19 but he didn't make it sound like the constant habit went on that long. I honestly dk. he's been working for this guy since he was that age so I don't know. I just know he hates him with a passion and i haven't seen anything bad from the guy, but i only know what he tells me. Like why admit you have a problem if you won't try to go to AA. And now im beginning to wonder is that why he struggles with sleeping. When he's away and calls me and we sleep otp, he snores for hours. But apparently last night he only slept 3 hours then was awake the other 3 then had to go to work half sleep today

[DizzyDesii]

(Continued) like i heard withdrawals cause the sleep issues. I just dk if thats why he hasn't been sleeping

[NathanDavis]

this sounds really bad, what I am going to say but...

this should not be your problem Dizzy... and it isn't your problem to help nor to fix

the only times in which a partner or close friend is able to help an addict, is when they're actually beating the bad habit

but, with all of these things you're explaining... it is very clear that he is turning you into an enabler, he is using you... because it does suck to lie to yourself, so he is now lying to you instead...

[DizzyDesii]

Okay thanks. Im gonna get some sleep now

64.media.tumblr.com/.../...fb6deea3505a9fd432.gifv

[NathanDavis]

it's not your fault either... is just bad timing

[RavVid]

It is. Recovering alcoholics are fairly careful of rum balls. (I am more serious than I might appear). A friend is currently in recovery with 11 years to go.

[DizzyDesii]

I wouldn't even count 2-3 weeks as recovering after realizing that

[RavVid]

It takes a long time and very significant emotional change I am gathering

[DizzyDesii]

I just dont know if i can take him serious at this point. He already lied about it by saying he quit cold turkey in January but then reveals he was drinking only at restaurants in September. Then he was vomiting up blood at school in October after drinking all night for different nights two weeks in a row. Yet he said he didn't have an issue. Then he said he stopped in November but revealed after Thanksgiving that he caved once or twice earlier that week. He agreed to start AA in December then when that month started he said “i dont want to but i’ll force myself to stop.” Now he says he drives around tempted to go to the liquor store but doesn't “for me” since he doesn't want to save himself “for him”. Yet he supposedly had half a bottle left at home so why are you tempted to buy more if there's some at home? Assuming he drank that this month then. And now you say you haven't drank since before Thanksgiving but you had rumballs at your parents last weekend. I just dont know what to say anymore. I wish i had the strength to leave rn but im just gonna see what happens in the next 30 days

[RavVid]

I think you have said once that you don't drink. People drink to make themselves feel better. It is self medication. So there is usually some underlying problem that alcohol enables them to escape from and to feel better through sedation.

Truth is most alcoholics sort of have to hit rock bottom. And before then they will make periodic attempts but relapse quickly. It has to be for him not for you.

Do you know how long there has been a drinking problem? The longer the worse it is of course

Pragmatically it is best to leave because it is not likely to change if it is long established frankly.

[DizzyDesii]

I can't remember how long but he made it seem like it was never a big deal and that it ended in January although i now know that was a lie. He claimed he started because his boss stresses him but i think its several things. When i found out he was still drinking, he acted as if his friends pressured him too but that was a lie as well

[RavVid]

A couple of times I have got into a mode of drinking far too much. There were some pangs for the first two days but after that it wasn't a prob. I do think think there must be underlying issues.

It takes effort to drink and is easier not to.

[DizzyDesii]

He suffered from (presumably undiagnosed) depression long before we met but as far as i know it hasn't hit at all this year. Thats coming from his mouth but I don't know whats a lie anymore. He only has 6 more months of school but his boss keeps trying to make him work so that he won't leave him soooner. So the 6 months keep getting broken down into 3 months a year. But i really need him to finish that shit up this year

[IslaTheWitch]

As long as he won't as k for help having realization what is happening, you can't help. Don't even try. Alcohol and drugs have this effect on people's minds. They made them crave, so to keep a weak mind in tact the owner starts to lie to themselves and others around.

Don't put yourself into it. As long as he won't take clear steps (AA group, regular doctors check ups, etc) you should keep yourself away. Away away...

Take care of yourself, Dizzy

[DizzyDesii]

I see

[IslaTheWitch]

He can claim a lot. As long as he won't take an action and change something, his words mean nothing...

[DizzyDesii]

Aside from the rumball, he technically hasn't drank anything (that i know of) this month so it is a start. But i just feel eating that ball broke the rules

[IslaTheWitch]

it did, part of being a healing alcoholic is the skill of rejecting dangerous offers

[DizzyDesii]

Im nervous because he's visiting his parents for Christmas and i feel she's bound to offer it again. He hasn't even bought his mom angift and he says “she’d love a bottle of wine as her gift”. All i can imagine is him helping her drink it…

[IslaTheWitch]

Dizzy... is this worth it? Just look how much emotions you invest in thinking "what if" and he does nothing to make you sure it won't happen...

[DizzyDesii]

Sadly the optimism in me feels it could be worth it. But i’ve told myself that if January doesn't go well, i have to get out by Feb

[IslaTheWitch]

Whatever borders you set for yourself, be honest towards yourself and don't change them.

I invested 4 years... paid high price... it's not worth it, as long as he doesn't want it... or doesn't put effort in it...

[DizzyDesii]

Yea i made the mistake of investing years in two dudes not worth twice before. 6 months is about all i can tolerate now and even thats too long to deal with bullshit

[Lliam]

You won't get drunk from eating a few rum balls. But the danger of an alcoholic eating them is, the smell and flavor makes them crave alcohol. Alcoholics need to stay away from anything that reminds them of alcohol.

Lots of people can enjoy the taste of alcohol. I really enjoy a glass or two of good (not cheap) wine, or a cocktail, or some other beverage once in a while. There is not one thing wrong with that at all. I even use wine in cooking.

But alcoholics crave alcohol. When they start drinking, they can't stop until they are smashed. It's like people who are addicted to sugar. They can't stop at one cookie. They keep eating until the box is empty and then go searching for anything else to eat that's full of sugar.

So don't confuse alcoholics with normal people. Alcohol is actually very enjoyable if used in moderation. It's nothing to be paranoid about.

[DizzyDesii]

I dont even know if he's an “alcoholic”. he's lied so much about how it wasn't an issue and now randomly claims its an issue so maybe he is. I don't know. But he made promises to stay away from it and keeps failing. Im trying to maintain faith. And yes that is something i noticed from the times he's admitted to drinking (he's never done it around me) that he drinks until drunk. I’ve only learned of him being drunk twice and once was when he called me acting weird. But yea I don't know why he drinks until drunk. I know he hates his boss and is stressed by him but i want him to find a new escape. Im relieved i didn't take him to the casino with me (he's never been), because he gambled away 45,000 in online pool and i can only imagine how that wouldve gone if it was real money.

[DJB72]

I cook using alcohol. I have a friend who has a drinking problem and if that friend is going to be there I can't use it in the food.

Even though after cooking there's zero alcohol left, just the taste of it. For an alcoholic that can be enough to trigger a relapse.

The first issue is they need to acknowledge that they have a problem.

[DizzyDesii]

I didn't even think he was an alcoholic because he's claimed to not have drunk in so long. But twice in October and twice in November and a shitload of what ig was lies have proved otherwise. He randomly admitted after Thanksgiving that he feels he's an addict but i wouldn't have known cause he hides it so well

[DJB72]

High functioning drunks are actually the worst to deal with. Most can't or won't accept they're being controlled by the addiction

[DizzyDesii]

Yea I don't know what he is because he still gets the job done and it took him until last month to even admit he feels he has a problem

[DJB72]

Admitting it's a significant step. Some people - including a friend of mine - literally die before they'll recognise it.

And I do mean "literally", not "figuratively".

Worse, some people's "wake up call" is when they kill someone else. That's when "high functioning" falls apart. And it happens to all of them eventually.

Either way it's heartbreaking to see.

[DizzyDesii]

Im praying he lives a long life. When he's not away so much, then i feel like i’ll be around to help him fight to stay sober

[DJB72]

You can't fight it for him. If you try all you'll do is push him away. He has to want to fight it and although you can do things to support him like not having booze in the house and not drinking yourself when you're out together, ultimately it's down to him.

I've known a few guys who've gone into AA for anything from booze to drugs and even one guy who went because he was told he had a sex addiction. Apart from him they all say the same thing: your sponsor can show you the door but you have to step through it yourself.

Hope your friend can make that step 💛

[DizzyDesii]

I dont drink alcohol at all. We dont live together. He claims he's been off the rum all December and that the rumball doesn't count. I don't know he won't go to AA but he's made aneffort by stopping this month and says he's been shaky and having withdrawals. I don't know but im gonna hope for him

[DJB72]

I'll hope for you as well...

[Shark_61695]

I think there is a vast difference between enjoying alcohol and being an alcoholic.

If you can take or leave it, drink in moderation once you start and don't rely on alcohol to function then I would say you enjoy it.
If you see/smell/taste alcohol and need to drink, always drink to excess or need a drink to get through the day then you are an alcoholic.

A non-alcoholic can drink to excess on occasion just like someone without an eating problem can overeat at Christmas.

[DizzyDesii]

Yea i dint think he's an alcoholic but I don't know at this point

[MysticDevice]

Cooking with alcohol doesn't actually infuse the food with it. It serves as a flavor enhancer.

Its like here in the Midwest we boil brats and hotdogs in beer because in infuses extra flavor, but the alcohol just burns or vaporizes away.

I do see what your concern is though. That is if the guy in question is still actually drinking after saying he doesn't

[DizzyDesii]

I know its about flavor but he can come up witht something else. And look at the paragraph i wrote to ravvid

[MysticDevice]

"Rummballs". Interesting... I was unaware of these things. Seems similar to jello shots or vodka gummy bears.

Indeed that would still constitute consuming an intoxicant.

[DizzyDesii]

Exactly im taking it the same as a jello shot based off what i wrote to sparkie

[MysticDevice]

This is certainly a situation. I've seen it happen all too often

[DizzyDesii]

*sigh*

[loveslongnails]

Using vanilla extract in a recipe is hardly enough alcohol to have an effect on you unless you use extreme amounts. Eating rumballs though is clearly a different story. There are pure vanilla extracts that contain no alcohol and alcohol free mouthwash as well. If someone is really serious about zero alcohol, they would find those options.

[DizzyDesii]

Yea he always says he hates the fake vanilla extract and wants the real one which i assume is this—
“Vanilla extract may contain up to 35% ABV, which is the equivalent of a shot of hard liquor like vodka or bourbon. This means vanilla extract can get you drunk, but it also puts a person at risk of alcohol poisoning.” And yes im very disappointed in him in regards to the rumballs

[loveslongnails]

No excuse for the rumballs. Really good vanilla extract is potent, and you don't need much in a recipe to give it taste, so that's not the issue. Now if he ate 35 cookies or half a cake, then you have a problem. LOL

[DizzyDesii]

He used it to make some kind cashew thing. I don't know how much but he cooks with it a lot

[DryGermanGuy]

Alcoholics (and probably other addicts too) have an amazing talent of lying to themselves. I am not completely against alcohol, but I hate sloppy and agressive drunks.

[DizzyDesii]

I see

[Oliverlogan263]

Woah, this guy sounds seriously messed up. Claiming to be sober but still getting drunk through food? That's not cool at all. And changing his story so many times, no wonder you don't trust him. If he was really serious about quitting he'd go to AA like you said. Sounds manipulative to me too. I think you're right to be suspicious of him, this sneakily getting drunk stuff is shady. He needs to be honest with himself and others if he really wants help. Just my two cents! Tough situation.

[DizzyDesii]

Yea we had a serious talk last night and from the sound of it he has truly been sober this month aside from the rumball stunt. But its October when i even found out he drank twice then its November when he hid that he drank period. Had i known he dranks like this in August, he wouldn't have me it past the same week i met him

[Oliverlogan263]

Ah yeah nah this dude is messin up for sure. Hidin how much he's been drinkin before y'all even met, that's no good. And keep lyin about bein sober when he really ain't, that's just gonna make it worse. Seems like he's got a real problem if he's drinkin that much. If he really wants to change he needs to be totally honest, not just say one thing and do another behind your back. That'll never work out. He's lucky you even still talking to him after all that lyin. If it was me i probably wouldn't trust him no more. He gotta prove he's really gonna quit by bein honest from now on and gettin real help, not just sayin the words. And you gotta watch out for yourself too so he don't pull that stuff again. Tough situation but he gotta step up if he wants it to work.

[DizzyDesii]

Yea i’ve been doubting him

[Oliverlogan263]

Yeah I don't blame you for doubting him after all that. Dude clearly had a problem with lying about how much he was drinking even after he said he quit. That would definitely make it hard to trust anything he says now. If I were you I'd be watching him like a hawk to see if his actions actually match what he's telling you. No more chances if you catch him slipping up again. And don't be afraid to lay down the law on what you need from him to feel comfortable staying in the relationship. He messed up big time with the lies, now he's gotta earn that trust back through his actions, not just words. It'll take a lot for him to prove he's really committed to getting sober this time. You gotta do what's best for you too, even if that means moving on if he can't get his act together.

[RoseySarah]

Sorry what the first one? Vanilla extract is like alcohol? How?

Not smoking and edibles I so get yes but rum balls?

I think the alcohol mostly evaporates leaving the taste so no way to get drunk but close to drinking?

Congrats it's hot! 🔥

[DizzyDesii]

Not the little 2% alcohol content cheap vanilla. Im referring to the 35% one. I also read that the rumballs that are not baked are the ones still full of alcohol

[RoseySarah]

Ooo never mind there is none 😉.

They are pretending to be good so sick of people like that 😅

In drinking hard lemonade it's not a beer but it's still the same thing to get drunk!

My friend who passed was like that just dumb.

a lot of born again Christians are like that. Fully avoid them pretending to be good till they just drop the mask and relapse

[Anpu23]

When you cook with alcoholic beverages the alcohol boils off. So no its not the same as long as its cooked. It just leaves behind the taste. So a rum ball that is soaked after cooking is alcoholic, while if rum was only added to the batter it is not.

[DizzyDesii]

But he doesn't even need the “taste”. Seems triggering

[Pink2000]

I know that when you cook with alcohol the alcohol cooks out and you’ll still have that flavor but there’s no alcohol. Rum balls have rum in them but the alcohol should be getting cooked out. You’re not gonna get drunk off rum balls or vanilla extract or even feel buzzed.

[DizzyDesii]

But i hear some rumballs aren't baked (see opinion i wrote to sparkie) but at the same time I don't know if his mom cooked those. I highly doubt it because i feel he wouldn't have brought them up when saying “i haven't drank BUT”…

[Pink2000]

If this person is a recovering addict then they shouldn’t be having rum balls. Lmao. I think when you bake with alcohol not all of it cooks down. There’s like a tiny bit left

[Pink2000]

I meant alcoholic*

[DizzyDesii]

Yes thats what im saying. He ain't slick 😭

[ChicoFromThe305]

If you consume alcohol you just do, no matter the way you consume it.

[DizzyDesii]

Thats what im saying

[ChicoFromThe305]

I agree then lol

[Amiapowerlessman]

He gotta be upfront and honest with you I mean how else can you help/support if he’s lying ya know.

[DizzyDesii]

Exactly

[matchrestore]

There's low levels of alcohol naturally occurring in some food. Even non-alcoholic beer and wine can technically still have low levels of alcohol. I wouldn't consider any of that "cheating" on sobriety.

[DizzyDesii]

If its “alcohol” its an issue in my opinion

[matchrestore]

To me it depends how the person handles it. I know an alcoholic who has communion wine every Sunday and is otherwise sober. I don't think that a problem. Communion wine isn't enough to affect your mental state. But for some people that taste of alcohol could trigger a relapse. For them, I'd absolutely avoid even communion wine.

[DizzyDesii]

My church gives that fake wine aka grapejuice
Lol

[Anonymous]

It's a bit of a gray area, innit? See, saying you're sober but still cookin' with vanilla or munchin' on rum balls, it's like saying you don't drink but still have a cheeky shot. Some might say it's a bit dodgy, like saying you don't blaze but love your edibles.

It's a sly move, really. Like, why not be straight-up about it? No need for all the smoke and mirrors. If someone's playin' those tricks, it's best to clock it early. No one wants to be caught nappin', fam.

[nawtee_me]

He is just a dry drunk if he is not working the steps so they say… but I am sure you could find others that would agree with him. Like those who are trying to stop smoking and chewing nicotine gum… It is like, I am going to quit smoking crack and just snort the cocaine instead….. lol.

[Likes2drive]

Some people go around it but alcohol is boiled out in cooked food just like when people put wine or beer in the recipe but there is alcohol in some cough medicine. As for weed and edibles , that’s like saying I didn’t inhale, lol

[DizzyDesii]

Cough med like what syrup/benadryl or sumn? Like what little Wayne be on

[Likes2drive]

Yeah, probably and the ones they use to make meth

[Joshydavid25]

Damn, I don't know Desii, he's already been lying so much according to you.. Might be time to start doing some thinking.. If you haven’t already..

[DizzyDesii]

I was such a decisive person til i met him

[Joshydavid25]

Yeah, I feel that one..

[Sparkie460]

When you cook with alcohol, the alcohol is actually burned off. You have the flavor of it but not the actual alcohol

[DizzyDesii]

Okay well that covers the vanilla extract But i read that rumballs are not baked so the alcohol content is still there

[Sparkie460]

I've never had rumballs so I don't know if they are cooked or not

[DizzyDesii]

I googled and they are not for the most part

[Sparkie460]

I just googled too. The recipe I saw says to mix rum with chocolate while it's cooking.

[DizzyDesii]

Oh i saw
“ Can rum balls make you drunk? This is a no bake recipe, which means any alcohol we use in the process won't be cooked away or made less effective. However, we're not using that much of it, so getting drunk isn't something to worry about! After all, there's only ¼ cup of rum divided among 24 individual bites.” And “ No. They are not baked, so all the alcohol that goes into the mixture of this rum balls recipe will stay there!” And “ Rum does not get you more drunk than vodka. It's the amount of alcohol you consume in a given period of time, not the spirit per se that determines how drunk you get. For example a shot of vodka or rum (1.5 oz) will obviously enter the bloodstream faster than a cocktail sipped slowly.”

[Sparkie460]

It's only 1/2 to 3/4 of a cup of rum. I rarely drink, but I know that won't make me drunk

[RavVid]

I think the factor is perhaps not so much that it is a shot of alcohol but is taking a step to alcohol.

Pouring a bottle of red into a beef ragout might not leave any alcohol in the food but the person has still bought a bottle of wine. And savoring the taste of the wine in the food could trigger desire to drink a nice red. I dunno but i think that might be the dynamic.

Some people generate alcohol in their gut by the way.

[DizzyDesii]

Drunk or not he is supposed to be practicing sobriety and thats not a step forward in my opinion

[DizzyDesii]

@RavVid generate alcohol in the gut? Wow how

[RavVid]

The usual way fungi/bacteria/yeast in the gut fermenting sugars. There was a DUI court case locally and it was pleaded he hadn't drank so it wasn't his fault he was over the limit.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../

Entirely right on not being a step forward to sobriety to cook with alcohol.

[DizzyDesii]

@RavVid i was proud of him for turning down wine that he was offered with his dinner but yea. I just dk what to say anymore

[RavVid]

Turning down the glass was strong. Just DM'ed you. Please check.

[DizzyDesii]

@RavVid i guess he's making an effort. I don't know. Our romantic getaway is next month and we’ve already paid for it so thats part of the reason why im still putting up with the bullshit

[Sparkie460]

Hey, you two are blowing up my comment

[spartan55]

He is drinking vanilla extract straight from a bottle?

[DizzyDesii]

No but he was baking stuff with it more often that not

[spartan55]

Okay... lol... you know the alcohol cooks off right? You can't get drunk on it that way.

[DizzyDesii]

I realize that now. Like i said i dont drink nor cook with alcohol so i dont know this stuff. But still he shouldn't even be using it

[spartan55]

Why not? It's a baking ingredient.

[DizzyDesii]

He struggles with even being around alcohol lately