Christmas. Why are so many obsessed with telling us how Jesus wasn't born on Christmas Day?

[Gwendoline]

[ohsheeT]

Because the more people that do it and tell that lie. Then the more people will believe that lie and start telling that lie to others.

And that keeps the truth from ever being told
It's the same thing with all the other lives that have been told about our history. How things happened when they happened to keep us all confused to keep us all under a thumb

Because the truth will set us free. The truth will make us bigger and better. Who we are meant to be

Well, they have kept us here this long, but I'm here to tell you things are about to change big time. All truth are starting to come out

But it takes leaders to teach the followers, the real truth. So we can get to where we are going

To eliminate the people who have their thumb on us to keep us down. Once we rise, there's no coming back. We are going to keep rising with all truth and love

Not chaos, manipulation.\nTo keep us down the time is now and . The truth will be told

[Lliam]

Scholars agree the exact date of Jesus' birth is unknown, but many place it
between 6 and 4 BC.

Season (Spring/Fall):
Shepherds in Fields: Shepherds wouldn't keep flocks in fields during cold, rainy Judean winters (Dec-Feb).
Ripe Dates: The mention of Mary picking ripe dates from a palm tree suggests late summer or fall.

Astronomical Theories (Suggesting Spring/Fall):Comet:
Some link the Star of Bethlehem to a comet, suggesting April 5 BC.
Jupiter-Regulus Conjunction: Others point to a planetary alignment in 7-6 BC, possibly around September 15, 6 BC, as described in Revelation 12.

Why December 25?
Early Christians chose December 25 to co-opt existing pagan winter solstice festivals (like Saturnalia) and offer a Christian alternative, not because it was the actual birth date.

[Gwendoline]

Ancient shepherds kept their flocks in fields all year around because they couldn't provide enough fodder for them. Judean winters are only 10 to15°C. Sheep can be left in the fields with temperatures as low as -15°C. The bible speaks of lambs which indicates December/January.
The date harvest season generally runs from late summer through fall and into early winter, primarily September to December, with fresh dates best in August-October; however, it varies by region and variety, with some starting as early as late July (Medjool) and continuing through December, using hand-picking methods as dates ripen at different times on the same tree.
The Star of Bethlehem would have to hover above directly for the wise men to go directly to Bethlehem.
The pagan winter solstice is on various days before and after the winter solstice.

[Lliam]

Nevertheless, the Gospels do not specify a date. And even Biblical scholars disagree on Dec 25. It is a fact that that date was chosen to coincide with the Saturnalia festival in order to turn a pagan celebration into a Christian one. There is no way they could have simply banned Saturnalia.

[Grond21]

@Lliam you are correct that we don't know for sure when Jesus was born with provable certainty, however, we do know that Christmas was not chosen to replace Saturnalia. That is an idea that originated in the late 1800s, but a good study of history disproves it. Saturnalia was celebrated from December 17th through the 23rd, it was not a significant holiday, and there is no historical evidence showing Christmas was chosen with any connection to that celebration.

[Gwendoline]

Certainly seems likely it was in December during the lambing season, on the old Julian calendar it was December 25 which the eastern orthodox churches still celebrate Christmas which falls on the 6 or the 7th on the Gregorian calender. Seems likely that 2000 years ago the 25th of December fell on the winter solstice which was 21st December in 2025.

[Lliam]

So all the scholars are wrong. True believers will always rationalize.
I, personally, don't care. I just replied to your question.
Why are you "obsessed" with telling us when Jesus was born?

[Gwendoline]

Doesn't change the fact thst the lambing season in the middle east is December. The scholars are wrong about that.

[Sal_Monella]

I have read October 6, 3 BC. People obsess on this because it suggests some kind of hypocrisy that discredits Christianity.

[RandomGirl42]

Ty for inviting me to share.

I'm not here to argue or defend any religion but I think it's because people don't like being lied to and having it forced on them as truth. I mean at one point in history if anyone was to suggest Christmas was not the birthday of Christ they would be killed for being a heretic.

Now that people are free to search for truth themselves and express themselves openly they often start by claiming what they believe to not be true.

[Kelly6]

@gwendoline Because there is no record of the birthday, but for Christmas we pick a Scandinavian pagen religion date to convert them to Christianity.

Is Christmas tree In middle East too!

[Gwendoline]

Christianity changes culturally by region as Christian adapt it to fit their culture. Ie Christmas trees instead of psalm trees.

[Kelly6]

@gwendoline
Thanks for mho

[sage2021]

Does it really matter? It's the date that who knows picked it to be Jesus' birthday and that's what I celebrate - the birth of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior 🙏🏼✝️

[BCRanger10]

Because they hate Christ and his Catholic Church and just want to keep pretending that Christianity is nothing special and just ripped off other religions.

[Massageman]

By reverse figuring the constellations and other stellar phenomena, along with Biblical accounts of seasonal action of people, scientists have narrowed it down to a couple of actual times, none of which are "precisely" on 12-25.

[exitseven]

Nobody really knows the exact date of the birth of Jesus. It really does not make much difference.

[DishLady]

"Obsessed"? Why is your generation so "obsessed" with making anything positive seem negative? Smh.

[Tomislav7]

quit typing and start cleaning lady

[NathanDavis]

yeah... I keep telling everyone how much I grill... instead

[Chazmatazz269]

It’s one of the greatest cons of all time and the truth should be known.

[TrueConfection]

They don’t know about John.

[strateguy632]

Some outsider say it to mock 'Christ was born' so say wrong day. The tropical weather in bethlehem, makes December possible but still some protestant churches accepted the criticism so teach 'not this literal day just picking one day for unknown date'.

[strateguy632]

This just in Haley comet , each 76 years 2 months , and visible by eye, count back 13 cycles from April 1986 came to February year 5 bc during Herod king. So magi followed a star then to Christ birth in February.

[strateguy632]

Error! This calculated to 998! Actually 26 cycles! so four months before April 20 is December 20. Proof catholic is right. I concede @gwendoline

[Gwendoline]

The three magi i dont think arrived until after the birth of christ

[DJB72]

They're the same ones trying to point out that a Jew born 2000 years ago wasn't White, and who thinks He was born in a country that's never existed as a country - Palestine

The Christophobia is strong with this bunch...

[Gwendoline]

Well said.

[WonderingManII]

I know what you mean. I think it's stupid, because it is very hard to figure out what was the actual date. Yet some people think accuracy is very important. I don't think accuracy on this is that important. The Bible doesn't tell us to celebrate Christmas at all. But I think the season is good to remind us of the miracle of Christ's birth and what that means for the salvation of those who believe.

[Zack-Bann]

Because many people miss the point


Christmas isn’t about historical accuracy it’s about the concept itself


That God sent his only son to save earth from sin


(i’m not a very religious person, but it’s what I’ve been taught during my childhood)

[lilBigPotato]

Don't know but it's not wrong so does it matter?

[Gwendoline]

What's wrong about it?

[lilBigPotato]

I said it's not wrong. No one knows the exact date but a lot of things hint at him not being born in December. That the 25th of December is not his actual birth date is common knowledge, if you had any kind of religion class in school you should know.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org/.../

There's nothing wrong or bad about the 25th not being his actual birth date. It's just a fact, nothing more nothing less

[Gwendoline]

This article is really badly written as it lacks any real research. For instance it says
"The biblical reference to shepherds tending their flocks at night when they hear the news of Jesus’ birth (Luke 2:8) might suggest the spring lambing season; in the cold month of December, on the other hand, sheep might well have been corralled."
Which is nonsense because in Israel and the middle east the lambing season is December and January not in the spring months like in Europe.

It also says

"By the fourth century, however, we find references to two dates that were widely recognized—and now also celebrated—as Jesus’ birthday: December 25 in the western Roman Empire and January 6 in the East"

Also nonsense because the the eastern churches use the Julian calendar still and not the Gregorian calender and on the Julian calendar December 25th is January 6th on the Gregorian calender.

[lilBigPotato]

Just go to your church and ask an official then. Everyone will confirm you that December 25th is not the actual birth date.

Tbh I really don't care about this because I think it doesn't matter when he was born so don't feel like arguing about it.

[Gwendoline]

I did. Seems that the evidence youve provided confirms December

[WhitneySnow]

The Bible implies it was during the summertime. And it is a historical fact that the emperor Constantine decreed that Christmas was December 25 so it would coincide with the festival of Sol Invictus.

[Gwendoline]

How does it imply summer time?

[WhitneySnow]

I have to ask my pastor. He’s the one who told me that. But I know for a fact that Christmas was not associated with December 25 until the emperor Constantine issued an order proclaiming it.

[Gwendoline]

They celebrated Christmas before Constantine made Christianity the religion of the roman empire

[WhitneySnow]

No they didn’t

[Gwendoline]

Yes they did.

[WhitneySnow]

No they didn’t. They celebrated the festival of Sol Invictus on December 25, but that was a pagan holiday. Some Christians did celebrate Jesus’s birthday, but that was usually in the summertime.

[Gwendoline]

Sol invictus was only celebrated 274 years after the birth of christ and only got maybe 40 years.
Christians celebrated to conception of Christ in march 25th, 9 months before the birth of christ December 25th.

[WhitneySnow]

Yes but that date wasn’t fixed until after the Council of Nicaea in 325

Gtg. Night.

[Gwendoline]

But meanwhile Christians were celebrating Christmas

[OneViewpoint]

I'm not gonna tell you that. I'm gonna tell you that Jesus wasn't born at all. Jesus was invented by humans to serve humans like every other god man has created. Jesus is a fictional character in a bad fairy tale.

[Gwendoline]

Who's needs? Why would the first Christians want to be crucified, persecuted and fed to lions?

[OneViewpoint]

@gwendoline,

Why did the people at Jonestown drink the poison Kool-Aid?
Why did the Heavens Gate cult all kill themselves?

Because cults always attract mentally ill idiots.

[Gwendoline]

Do you know how much suffering is involved in crucifixion?

[OneViewpoint]

You mean crucifying a fictional character like the Easter Bunny? Jesus didn't feel a thing. He never existed.

But let's say Jesus did exist and he was the "son of god and god at the same time" (weird twisted concept but OK). In that case he was a monumental masochist into self torture. He pointlessly sat there hanging from nails when he (supposedly) could have snapped his fingers and saved himself or called upon the Father and the Holy Ghost (again weird trinity concept) to get off their ass and save him. Instead he got his rocks off pretending to be a martyr for his distraught cult. That is one needy sick fuck of a god. Maybe he should have been worshipping the humans who created him.

[Gwendoline]

Was spartacucs a fictional character? Was cleopatra? Was Julieus caesar? Was Mark Anthony? Was king herod? Was Vercongetrix? Was Pompey? Was Crassus? Was Nerro? Was Augustus? Was Emperor Ai of Han? Was Lugaid Riab nDerg? Was Livy?

[TonyMetal___86]

Jesus is everything but the dates of his birth aren't precise...

[Gwendoline]

No dates are precise because the calender changed.

[TonyMetal___86]

Right 👍🏻

[Twalli]

Because a bunch of religious people make a big deal about it being a celebration of the birth of Christ. The truth is that they moved the celebration of his birth to where it is now to help the pagans assimilate. If you look, almost all Christian holidays are at the same time as former pagan holidays. It's easier to change religions if you don't change when your holidays are, even if they're diffrent.

[capriVib]

I have no idea, it's celebrated in many places. But where I live, New Year's is just a calendar event.

[Guanfei]

The idea is just to destroy Christmas, as a part of destroying western culture.

[Gwendoline]

I agree completely. Everyone is allowed to have their own culture and religious traditions except white Christians.

[Anonymous]

Because he wasn't. If he was a real person, he was most likely born in late February, or early March.

[Gwendoline]

Why exactly? Explain?

[Opinion Owner]

- The Gospel of Luke describes shepherds watching over their flocks at night when they received the news of Jesus' birth - If the shepherds were in the fields, it suggests a warmer time of year, likely avoiding the colder winter months.
- Astronomers and historians have speculated that the "Star of Bethlehem" could be linked to conjunctions of planets, particularly around 2-3 B. C., around the time thought to correspond to Jesus' birth - This astronomical event could further situate the birth close to spring months.
- The earliest Christians did not celebrate December 25 as Jesus' birthday. This date was chosen later by the Roman Church - To replace the pagan Winter Solstice celebrations.
- Early Christians often used fish (ichthys) as their secret symbol, representing Jesus Christ. The acronym formed by the Greek letters of "ichthys" translates to "Jesus Christ, God's Son, Savior." - Fish is Pisces in Zodiac (most likely his birthday sign).
Pisces personality traits resemble Jesus, unlike December Capricorn traits.

[Gwendoline]

Just mentioning that the lambing season in the middle east is December to January unlike in Europe. In December in judea the tempature is 10°C at it coldest. Shepherds in those days stayed with their flocks of sheep or cattle herds all year around because unlike modern times they didn't have the fodder cut to feed them. Sheep can stay in the fields all year around at tempatures lower than -20•C.

[Opinion Owner]

2000 years ago, climate was actually quite colder in Judea compared to present-day Israel.
Regardless of that, all the other relevant factors also point out that Jesus (if he was a real person) was not born in December.

[Gwendoline]

Still doesn't change the facts, especially about sheep.

[Opinion Owner]

Sheep can endure cold weather, but for humans it's not very comfortable... and it still doesn't change the fact that ancient Christians never celebrated his birthday in December... it's just a copycat holiday made to suppress the Pagan Winter Solstice.

[Gwendoline]

Yes but when you are a shepherd you are out in all weathers protecting your flock from theives and predators.
The early Christians in western Europe came up in the western roman empire 300 years before it became the main religion of the empire. Pagan winter solstice wasn't a concern to them.

[Opinion Owner]

When you're a shepherd, you usually have a shepherd dog to protect the flock from thieves and predators, but you have to go to some kind of shelter if the weather is bad.
Pagan Winter Solstice was a concern to Christians later, primarily to Catholic and Orthodox church, that's why they agreed to suppress the pagan holiday by introducing Christmas in December.
You know what it feels like to be suppressed in your traditions... your people had such problems with Anglo-Saxons... they stole King Arthur from the Celts.

[ilistengood]

Because there's a certain secret society in this country who just flat aren't happy unless they are screwing up someone's beliefs.

[WilliamPamer446]

Not an obsession we only say that sometimes?

Im a Christian and I know this holiday is Pagan🤣

Why are American Christians so afraid to admit that some of our culture is Pagan?

[Gwendoline]

Christianity changes from culture to culture but the message is the same.

[Bricealan]

@gwendoline It does not make any difference to me.

[XXblack88]

Probably cause the Bible doesn't say the exact date of Jesus's birth.

[Nik1hil]

Those people are Piece of Shit! Trying to Ruin such a good Festive Season!..

[jahaims]

Because it's ironic to have a religious holiday that celebrates something that didn't happen

[RedInnocent69]

Because we’ve been brainwashed by marketing

[Sevenpointfive]

because it makes them feel good to remind you who really killed your lord and savior.

[Anonymous]

It is socially acceptable to make fun of Christianity; and nobody worries about Christians retaliating.

[loveslongnails]

Hmmm... maybe because it's the truth, and you all claim to be all about truth, right?

[Gwendoline]

Which part is the truth?

[loveslongnails]

Duh. The time of Christ's birth? You know, like the subject of the question?

[Gwendoline]

Evidence?

[loveslongnails]

Are you serious? Do your own homework.

The consensus among Biblical scholars is that Christ was born during the harvest season, most likely fall. ALSO, it's a widely accepted belief that the celebration of his birthday that the Romans moved it to coincide with the Saturnalia Festival.

www.nationalgeographic.com/.../christmas-jesus-birthday-ancient-rome-saturnalia-sol-invictus

There's a ton of stuff written about that, not just one National Geographic opinion. This is not news to Christians, or maybe it is to you?

[Gwendoline]

Why har lvest season? What evidence is there?
Im not paying for national geographic

[loveslongnails]

You don't pay to read the little article. LOL It's YOUR book Gwen. Do your own homework! LOL

The Bible gives no specific date of Jesus' birth. However, the date can be estimated based on when Hebrew shepherds historically tended their flocks in open fields and according to the biblical account of Mary and Elizabeth's pregnancies.

The Bible says in Luke 2:8-9. “Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night. And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid.”

According to Bible commentator Adam Clarke, it was traditional for the Jews to send their sheep to pasture from the spring until early October. As the cold winter months began, the flocks would return from the fields for protection and warmth. Since the shepherds were still tending their flocks in the fields around Bethlehem it can be deduced that the angels announced the news of Jesus’ birth no later than October.

This isn't really up for DEBATE amongst scholars OR Christians even, anymore.

[Gwendoline]

The temperature doesn't get any lower than 10°C in judea in December. Sheep were left year round in the field because being sheep not cattle they didn't need protection from the winter and if you bring flocks out of the fields you have to have the fodder to feed them. Israel doesn't have the same climate as Europe

[loveslongnails]

You know Gwen, you're presenting sophomoric arguments to people who have studied Biblical text for their life's work, and you're what, 19 supposedly? You're basing your argument on sheep vs cattle?

Take your discussion to the experts, the scholars, the people who can read Hebrew, Arabic, Greek, not GAG. When it comes to this point, you're like a flat earther among Bible scholars. I'm going to side with those who've made studying this their life's work, and not rely on something you learned in Sunday school. Since there is not an actual mention of the birthdate anywhere in the Bible, other sources are evaluated, and have been, for centuries before you got here.

If you think you have some revelation that establishes your theory, take it to experts and of course, take it to the Vatican. Any clarity you can give them would be greatly appreciated, no doubt.

[Gwendoline]

Is it sophomoric to point out that a lot of these so called experts failed to do basic research. One expert was saying that the birth of christ had to spring because of the presence of lambs in the biblical accounts as lambing season is in the spring months.

[loveslongnails]

Yes, it sophomoric to point out what one single researcher said when there is VAST agreement among most all scholars and researchers, that Christ was NOT born on the winter solstice.
If you just LOOK, you'll learn that the Roman Emperor who order the holidays be celebrated at the same time, did so to have a specific effect on the worshippers. But hell, you know better. LOL

[loveslongnails]

Please, PLEASE tell me you're a flat earther too! LOL

[Gwendoline]

All these researchers say the same things but view it with a European eye.

[loveslongnails]

Give it up Gwen. You haven't done 2 seconds worth of research into what scholars or experts have to say on the subject. Wtf is a "European eye" when it comes to facts? LOL

[FunkyMonkee]

Just stating facts. The truth will set you free!!

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Because He wasn't. The Bible doesn't teach anything of such.

Its just made up BS by people.

[Gwendoline]

How do you know?

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Because I actually read the Bible.

[Gwendoline]

Like which part?

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

The whole thing basically

[Gwendoline]

Uh huh but no evidence

[c704710]

Everyday is Christmas

[AgentG111]

Because he wasn't and we should have 13 months with equal days. Religion is a crock O crap!

[strateguy632]

13x28 is close but drifts a day.

[AngryCarl2]

You're the first person who's mentioned it, and you're probably the only one who cares.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Cause they don't understand celebration

[snermcger]

Because they hate your religion.

[linka_pat307]

Because its true?

[Gwendoline]

Which part and how?

[TwoToTooTutu2]

Because they wanted it to be Pagan so bad

[Dina88]

Cause some people just like stirring people up,

[LiamJHayden]

They haven't read Romans 14:5

[strateguy632]

Brilliant!

[Fireguy17]

no clue.

[ABC1x1x]

Because people should know the truth.