Marriages today, relationships based on the man's money and the woman's "perfect" body somehow end in divorce because there is no love or respect between them.
I think a lot of it has to do with how much more common no strings attached sex is. It has become much easier to fullfill your sexual desires without getting to know the person you are with. So more and more people opt out of committed relationships. Sex is easy, love is hard.
0
0 Reply
Anonymous
(45 Plus)
+1 y
Feminism - It Has Liberated Men. By insisting that women are physically equal to men and do not need men. So men have taken that to mean that they no longer have to marry, they can take jobs that give them just enough earnings to be comfortable, by not having to support a family, to not do killing amounts of overtime working more hours than living, take on debt through mortgages, they can pursue any hobby, just by being a bachelor and interacting or not with women as the mood takes them.
I can sorta see how women having more money would make a relationship work better but at the same time i think its more due to no longer having to get married just to live
The answer is in your own title partly anyway. Divorce rates are down because marage rates are down. Nobody can get divorced if nobody is getting married. As for why marriage rates are down all leave that up to someone else to figure out.
That is not how percentages work. She said divorce rates. Meaning it's applied to the total amount of marriages. If out of 100 marriages half fail or if out of 1000 marriages half fail your divorce rate will always be be 50%. If the rate is going down then just means that the few marriages we have today work better than the shit ton of marriages that we used to have.
In 2019, there were 16.3 new marriages for every 1,000 women age 15 and over in the United States, down from 17.6 in 2009. At the same time, the U. S. divorce rate fell from 9.7 new divorces per 1,000 women age 15 and over in 2009 to 7.6 in 2019
Lol I suppose more accurately I hate shortcuts to emojis. I want my words and numbers to be what I type them as, not "fixed" to an emoji. Its super dumb
I think it's a decline in morals that is destroying us. I know that we are happy when goo D comes our way but we are so concerned about what others are doing that we are not being individuals. We are growing dumber not smarter because we destroy our on then help foriegn countries prosper and build big empowers those that teach to cheat there employers
In stores if sales are down it’s probably because people are buying less & when it comes to divorce rates being down maybe less people are getting married.
Women are unmarriagiable. It has to be a BDSM master/slave relationship now and I personally want no part of it. Good luck to the fools who bite on that BS.
Men are more cautious about marriage because we don't want to lose half our shit. Women on the other hand can't find viable men because the women with good paying jobs won't 'date down'. Its kinda ironic actually from both sides.
Because of a mirade of UNGODLY beliefs that are practiced and performed by those of the majority who worship themselfs. ( INDIVIDUALISM ) Is the main societal extremitie that gave birth to the denial of GODS commanded commandments.
I mean, you aren't... wrong? Religious fears do play a part i suppose. Doesn't make them accurate, but if you get enough people to fear it over time that when people no longer believe it can affect declines in a way
I do, but it's still religion. Not everyone believes in your god. He exists within religion not outside of it. Then you have different faiths that interpreted either his word differently or believe in a different god altogether
Your beliefs or any one else's doesn't ever change the truth about GOD. Whether you believe or not , GOD is still there and so is his commanded commandments. And hell is still in business. GOD doesn't really care if you believe or not , its still denial and that is the easiest way to go to heavens junk yard.. Religion is also denial using mankind-made traditional concepts outside of GODS words. The book of James 2:19 says otherwise.
Because men aren’t getting married and men don’t want to get married. For obvious reasons! And I don’t blame them.
Men became wise!
And women are married to their phones.
The end.
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0 Reply
Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
All of those things plus atheism. It makes sense to religious people who want to have the approval of God or whatever, but to many atheist (men mainly) it’s just a ring and a piece of paper.
Thats a nihilist, not an atheist. Real atheists have their own values. Marriage is a logical value to have if you want children. Thing is, people dont want children
Marriage isn't inherently a religious thing is I think the point. You can be atheist and still want to be married. It is just a commitment to a single person in the end.
Of course you can. But for many atheists, as I said men mainly, it seems pointless.
Some people will argue for example that it’s about commitment and security, and that it encourages people to work on their marriages, but we know enough married couples who never did, or where there was cheating, or where one partner decided to divorce seemingly out of nowhere - and not because the other person was a prick or did anything really wrong, they just didn’t want to stay anymore. That’s what I mean.
People don't leave if they are happy. Someone is usually unsatisfied with something in a marriage in those cases it got to be too much. We don't know what is happening behind closed doors and each party is going to be biased in how they viewed what was going on so we can't just say a person was innocent of doing anything wrong to warrant a split up. One or both parties were not fulfilling a need.
I’m not saying that they are blameless, but often they have no idea. Either way the point is people divorce, marriage doesn’t ensure that they won’t, just that when they do the split will be messy is all.
Notice for a moment you never say women do anything bad you pin it on sub generalizations such as "millenials" and are not adverse to pinning it entirely on men. I'm guessing women are completely perfect and without fault?
I am just giving you the statistics. It isn't a blame on men or women, more just a shift in mindset that marriage is not the end all be all for a person anymore. Pregnancy rates are also down across the board.
What is "bad" about men and women being choosy? It means both sides have to actually try and not just rely on a cute face or a nice paycheck.
Except it won't. Trends will eventually go the other way. Also keep in mind with gay marriages being allowed within the last decade the numbers should trend up anyway.
It would only trend in the other direction if something else causes it to reverse, none of these things change by themselves. You would need whatever causes the decline to stop and have something to cause it to go up off.
As I've said - currently the West is low trust so it will continue
The cause is the pandemic itself and the subsequent economy issues stemming from it and the practices of the previous and current government administrations.
Financial instability may force people's hands into marrying for financial security and losing their ability to be AS picky. As I said, women (I believe the number is like 2 million) left the job market completely to focus on being home. This most likely means they are already married to do something like that, but that means they may also be less likely to divorce until stability returns. The flip side is, there may be a rush to the altar for those who have been delaying just for the extra security.
That being said, there is a chance it doesn't go up at all. Millenials also tend to cohabitate with unmarried partners more often giving them the ease on financial burden without the need for a marriage.
Oh absolutely the web played a part in this, but the web has influenced so many things it's hard not to see how entire generations were molded by it.
For older generations it gave them a place to see how the newer generations were branching off from their philosophies and gave them a place to vent about it.
For younger generations it gave knowledge into a world that had been up to that point limited to their elders points of views. Suddenly politics, sexual beliefs, religion and many other strongly held regional beliefs were being challenged by opposing view points from around the world. People were able to find like minded individuals easier and not feel alone or shamed into keeping their thoughts silent.
It doesn't mean everyone who has a voice online says nuggets of wisdom everyone should follow, but for a while, it eliminated the echo chamber of thought that a parent or community had for it's citizens.
This absolutely affected ideals on relationships, careers and empowered people from all sides of the aisle. This is why millennials are driving this change. They were the most affected by it and gen alpha is too young to see what effect it has on them in the same arena.
Millenials do not drive change, unless you mean Mark Zuckerberg as he is a millennial with an immense capital.
Capital drives change, lack of capital also drives change but we will get to that bit later, it's been a while since people had nothing to lose. I don't say this as though I want it to happen, it is just inevitable.
Yes, capital does drive change and millennials are outright changing how capital is used. Remember all those articles a while back about how business were complaining that millenials were driving them out of business because they didn't shop with them? Yeah, that's because as a collective, their priorities are different than the boomer generation. Different experiences.
They are putting less priority on things like marriage and home ownership. They also eat out more often which is why you saw more of a ride in delivery services (although I would say the pandemic helped speed that up with all generations).
They also put more of a priority in technology. The market shifts based on where the money is spent so yes millenials absolutely have been influencing change. Yeah, they don't have Mark Zuckerberg money but as a collective their spending influences where marketers focus their attention on. Even tv advertisers key demographics target 18-49 which right now millenials primarily fall into.
Dude, I tried to explain much the same thing to her for far too long and she purposefully misses the point of what you're saying. Almost to the point of just being non-sequitur.
It's a complete waste of life trying to discuss these things with hardline feminists.
Really all I accomplished was affirming to myself the reasons why I believe what I believe.
Just because I dont agree with you (and many people haven't agreed with your take either) doesn't mean I'm intentionally misunderstanding. It just means we all think you are wrong.
Pretty sure I've already stated it multiple times with him at least. I've also explained why I thought you were wrong too in some areas right here in this thread
I mean let's just gloss over those examples as positive thought because it doesn't match your narrative. Yes, trends do go the other way and then they will come back. That's how trends work.
The next time it breaks most people are by no means mentally prepared and the culture of moral supremacy is incompatible with events such as the great depression
You seem to think people will adapt and overcome in ways you would consider morally appropriate by your own definition. That is not the case, you or I cannot say how it will adapt and overcome but judging by human history..
Nope. I dont know what the results will look like, but it always adapts. Usually progress is made, then some people who like the old ways better become super vocal and violent. Then fighting starts. Then it settles down and more progress is made and you repeat forever.
... not... the same as the old ways where a process has a marked improvement in comfort, ease, or social awareness?
You know, you accused me of not using critical thought but I'm really concerned you aren't even aware of what that even means.
Progress is different for everyone. Obviously you know I'm all for equality, so for me, progress is anything that moves the needle towards that.
For some people progress is bent around educating the masses. So progress where more people are able to attend affordable secondary education is progress.
For some it's fetal rights and if this country blocks abortions, well then that is progress for them.
In the end progress is just what the society as the majority wants and manages to achieve.
"Progress is different for everyone" Yes I accuse you of not using critical thought but that doesn't mean I use it all the time either most people dont
"In the end progress is what the majority wants and manages to achieve" Yes
@ez-bri-z Many people disagree with you fems too, but the difference between us is that multiple people have tried to engage with your ideas and your philosophy and you refuse to hear them out and often talk past them and make spurious remarks.
You think I (we) are wrong, so you intentionally misunderstand me (us). Both things can be true.
Literally, a million men could answer a survey of yours detailing why it is they do or do not want to get married, and you would bloody ignore them, downplay or diminish what they are telling you because that is the only way you can keep your damaged ideology congnitively afloat in your head.
Otherwise you would have cognitive dissonance, which is why you're so dismissive of what certain men are telling you is just simply ONE FACTOR of why marriage is declining.
You cling to your feel good evidence/studies, and ignore potential evidence to the contrary, and then have the gall to mouth off about wanting people to consider multiple points of view and engage in critical thinking.
But not if it's critical thinking you don't like! Lmao.
You identify as a feminist so much that you have made it one of your identities. You are ego invested to the max in feminist thought (not all of which is even bad, by the way).
Me? I do not identify as MGTOW or anything like that. I know I am vaguely left-leaning, and I guess I could loosely be described as Red Pill, but I don't even agree fully or get along with many RP men.
I take what Ideas I like and leave the rest.
I WISH that feminism had remained a force for positive good and progressive (forward-thinking), humanitarian change, but I've come to the conclusion that it hasn't.
My ego isn't invested in anti-feminism or pro-feminism. Yours is.
I wanted feminism to succeed, but I do not like what it has become.
That is the difference between how you think and how I do.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
77Opinion
Marriages today, relationships based on the man's money and the woman's "perfect" body somehow end in divorce because there is no love or respect between them.
I argue otherwise. There’s a difference between expecting a “perfect” body and expecting her to be less then 400 lbs…
I think a lot of it has to do with how much more common no strings attached sex is. It has become much easier to fullfill your sexual desires without getting to know the person you are with. So more and more people opt out of committed relationships. Sex is easy, love is hard.
Feminism - It Has Liberated Men.
By insisting that women are physically equal to men and do not need men.
So men have taken that to mean that they no longer have to marry, they can take jobs that give them just enough earnings to be comfortable, by not having to support a family, to not do killing amounts of overtime working more hours than living, take on debt through mortgages, they can pursue any hobby, just by being a bachelor and interacting or not with women as the mood takes them.
I can sorta see how women having more money would make a relationship work better but at the same time i think its more due to no longer having to get married just to live
The answer is in your own title partly anyway. Divorce rates are down because marage rates are down. Nobody can get divorced if nobody is getting married. As for why marriage rates are down all leave that up to someone else to figure out.
With so few getting married anymore, means divorces are going to drop too.
That is not how percentages work.
She said divorce rates. Meaning it's applied to the total amount of marriages.
If out of 100 marriages half fail or if out of 1000 marriages half fail your divorce rate will always be be 50%. If the rate is going down then just means that the few marriages we have today work better than the shit ton of marriages that we used to have.
Less marriages in general? People are living together nowadays?
According to the cdc:
In 2019, there were 16.3 new marriages for every 1,000 women age 15 and over in the United States, down from 17.6 in 2009.
At the same time, the U. S. divorce rate fell from 9.7 new divorces per 1,000 women age 15 and over in 2009 to 7.6 in 2019
I hate emojis...
Census bureau. Not even sure why I put CDC lmao
That was random, you hate emojis. Lol I didn't send any
It showed up on my end. I didn't send one either but it corrected my words to an emoji
Yeah I saw That you sent one. Lol I'm like she's crazy, she's sending an emoji and then telling me she hates them. Lol
Lol I suppose more accurately I hate shortcuts to emojis. I want my words and numbers to be what I type them as, not "fixed" to an emoji. Its super dumb
I agree, if I want an emoji, I will add it otherwise keep them to yourself
Exactly!
i think its just a better understanding of each other and understanding what boundaries are and how to respect them. Better communication
I think it's a decline in morals that is destroying us. I know that we are happy when goo
D comes our way but we are so concerned about what others are doing that we are not being individuals. We are growing dumber not smarter because we destroy our on then help foriegn countries prosper and build big empowers those that teach to cheat there employers
In stores if sales are down it’s probably because people are buying less & when it comes to divorce rates being down maybe less people are getting married.
I choose sex education but really I think it's that less people are getting married now. It seems that way at least.
A combination of all of these above... redefining marriage. Probably less people less likely to marry these days... legally its a huge financial risk.
Women are unmarriagiable. It has to be a BDSM master/slave relationship now and I personally want no part of it. Good luck to the fools who bite on that BS.
Men are more cautious about marriage because we don't want to lose half our shit. Women on the other hand can't find viable men because the women with good paying jobs won't 'date down'. Its kinda ironic actually from both sides.
Yeah I know, right?
I find it pretty funny.
Chickens always come home to roost don't they?
Because of a mirade of UNGODLY beliefs that are practiced and performed by those of the majority who worship themselfs. ( INDIVIDUALISM ) Is the main societal extremitie that gave birth to the denial of GODS commanded commandments.
I mean, you aren't... wrong? Religious fears do play a part i suppose. Doesn't make them accurate, but if you get enough people to fear it over time that when people no longer believe it can affect declines in a way
I'm not talking about man-made ideaoligies such as (religion) . I'm talking about scripture and GODS own words.
Yeah... so religion.
Never mind... you obviously don't understand the difference.
I do, but it's still religion. Not everyone believes in your god. He exists within religion not outside of it. Then you have different faiths that interpreted either his word differently or believe in a different god altogether
Your beliefs or any one else's doesn't ever change the truth about GOD. Whether you believe or not , GOD is still there and so is his commanded commandments. And hell is still in business. GOD doesn't really care if you believe or not , its still denial and that is the easiest way to go to heavens junk yard.. Religion is also denial using mankind-made traditional concepts outside of GODS words. The book of James 2:19 says otherwise.
By the way... you're reinforcing Individualism as you speak.
And you are reinforcing religious ones as you do 😊
No... I'm all for personal relationship with the lord... NOT RELIGION. Stop denying that there's definitely a difference. Just how evil are you?
Apparently just the evilest thing ever.
Happy Thanksgiving though hun!
Happy Thanks giving to you also.
Women have gotten smarter. They've gotten hip to men's games and choose peace over a man's drama.
Because men aren’t getting married and men don’t want to get married.
For obvious reasons! And I don’t blame them.
Men became wise!
And women are married to their phones.
The end.
All of those things plus atheism. It makes sense to religious people who want to have the approval of God or whatever, but to many atheist (men mainly) it’s just a ring and a piece of paper.
Thats a nihilist, not an atheist. Real atheists have their own values. Marriage is a logical value to have if you want children. Thing is, people dont want children
@MrPlentiful
It’s not. You don’t have to get married to have children or to be and stay in a monogamous relationship.
Marriage isn't inherently a religious thing is I think the point. You can be atheist and still want to be married. It is just a commitment to a single person in the end.
Of course you can. But for many atheists, as I said men mainly, it seems pointless.
Some people will argue for example that it’s about commitment and security, and that it encourages people to work on their marriages, but we know enough married couples who never did, or where there was cheating, or where one partner decided to divorce seemingly out of nowhere - and not because the other person was a prick or did anything really wrong, they just didn’t want to stay anymore. That’s what I mean.
People don't leave if they are happy. Someone is usually unsatisfied with something in a marriage in those cases it got to be too much. We don't know what is happening behind closed doors and each party is going to be biased in how they viewed what was going on so we can't just say a person was innocent of doing anything wrong to warrant a split up. One or both parties were not fulfilling a need.
I’m not saying that they are blameless, but often they have no idea. Either way the point is people divorce, marriage doesn’t ensure that they won’t, just that when they do the split will be messy is all.
Because nobody bothers to marry anymore. Just live together.
All of the above amongst other reasons
Society is generally low trust now anyway and rightfully so - let it collapse :)
Notice for a moment you never say women do anything bad you pin it on sub generalizations such as "millenials" and are not adverse to pinning it entirely on men. I'm guessing women are completely perfect and without fault?
Inb4 common shaming tactic
I am just giving you the statistics. It isn't a blame on men or women, more just a shift in mindset that marriage is not the end all be all for a person anymore. Pregnancy rates are also down across the board.
What is "bad" about men and women being choosy? It means both sides have to actually try and not just rely on a cute face or a nice paycheck.
Objectively men do have to *try* more to seem desirable to the average woman or their looksmatch.
But men and women overall being choosy is not the problem if anything commitment declining in the West is just something I know will keep happening
Except it won't. Trends will eventually go the other way. Also keep in mind with gay marriages being allowed within the last decade the numbers should trend up anyway.
It would only trend in the other direction if something else causes it to reverse, none of these things change by themselves. You would need whatever causes the decline to stop and have something to cause it to go up off.
As I've said - currently the West is low trust so it will continue
The cause is the pandemic itself and the subsequent economy issues stemming from it and the practices of the previous and current government administrations.
Financial instability may force people's hands into marrying for financial security and losing their ability to be AS picky. As I said, women (I believe the number is like 2 million) left the job market completely to focus on being home. This most likely means they are already married to do something like that, but that means they may also be less likely to divorce until stability returns. The flip side is, there may be a rush to the altar for those who have been delaying just for the extra security.
That being said, there is a chance it doesn't go up at all. Millenials also tend to cohabitate with unmarried partners more often giving them the ease on financial burden without the need for a marriage.
It's been going on far longer than the pandemic although the pandemic has sped up the decline
The internet was and is another catalyst in this
Oh absolutely the web played a part in this, but the web has influenced so many things it's hard not to see how entire generations were molded by it.
For older generations it gave them a place to see how the newer generations were branching off from their philosophies and gave them a place to vent about it.
For younger generations it gave knowledge into a world that had been up to that point limited to their elders points of views. Suddenly politics, sexual beliefs, religion and many other strongly held regional beliefs were being challenged by opposing view points from around the world. People were able to find like minded individuals easier and not feel alone or shamed into keeping their thoughts silent.
It doesn't mean everyone who has a voice online says nuggets of wisdom everyone should follow, but for a while, it eliminated the echo chamber of thought that a parent or community had for it's citizens.
This absolutely affected ideals on relationships, careers and empowered people from all sides of the aisle. This is why millennials are driving this change. They were the most affected by it and gen alpha is too young to see what effect it has on them in the same arena.
Millenials do not drive change, unless you mean Mark Zuckerberg as he is a millennial with an immense capital.
Capital drives change, lack of capital also drives change but we will get to that bit later, it's been a while since people had nothing to lose. I don't say this as though I want it to happen, it is just inevitable.
Amen.
Yes, capital does drive change and millennials are outright changing how capital is used. Remember all those articles a while back about how business were complaining that millenials were driving them out of business because they didn't shop with them? Yeah, that's because as a collective, their priorities are different than the boomer generation. Different experiences.
They are putting less priority on things like marriage and home ownership. They also eat out more often which is why you saw more of a ride in delivery services (although I would say the pandemic helped speed that up with all generations).
They also put more of a priority in technology. The market shifts based on where the money is spent so yes millenials absolutely have been influencing change. Yeah, they don't have Mark Zuckerberg money but as a collective their spending influences where marketers focus their attention on. Even tv advertisers key demographics target 18-49 which right now millenials primarily fall into.
Dude, I tried to explain much the same thing to her for far too long and she purposefully misses the point of what you're saying. Almost to the point of just being non-sequitur.
It's a complete waste of life trying to discuss these things with hardline feminists.
Really all I accomplished was affirming to myself the reasons why I believe what I believe.
Not worth engaging in good faith.
I dont think its intentional? Most people are not able to connect dots so it's not something I expect of others
I would say this is a case of oversocialisation
Just because I dont agree with you (and many people haven't agreed with your take either) doesn't mean I'm intentionally misunderstanding. It just means we all think you are wrong.
Big difference.
What do you think is wrong specifically?
Pretty sure I've already stated it multiple times with him at least. I've also explained why I thought you were wrong too in some areas right here in this thread
But there isn't any critical thought in this - everything you say is spinning it off in a positive way
Objectively short term Westerners will enjoy this lavish freedom, economic prosperity and freedom from responsibility
Long term however.. as you said in your own words.. trends will eventually go the other way
I mean let's just gloss over those examples as positive thought because it doesn't match your narrative. Yes, trends do go the other way and then they will come back. That's how trends work.
The next time it breaks most people are by no means mentally prepared and the culture of moral supremacy is incompatible with events such as the great depression
Nope, just more doomsday talk. You severely underestimate societies ability to adapt and overcome.
Oh no, I do not underestimate it at all.
You seem to think people will adapt and overcome in ways you would consider morally appropriate by your own definition. That is not the case, you or I cannot say how it will adapt and overcome but judging by human history..
Nope. I dont know what the results will look like, but it always adapts. Usually progress is made, then some people who like the old ways better become super vocal and violent. Then fighting starts. Then it settles down and more progress is made and you repeat forever.
What is defined as progress
... not... the same as the old ways where a process has a marked improvement in comfort, ease, or social awareness?
You know, you accused me of not using critical thought but I'm really concerned you aren't even aware of what that even means.
Progress is different for everyone. Obviously you know I'm all for equality, so for me, progress is anything that moves the needle towards that.
For some people progress is bent around educating the masses. So progress where more people are able to attend affordable secondary education is progress.
For some it's fetal rights and if this country blocks abortions, well then that is progress for them.
In the end progress is just what the society as the majority wants and manages to achieve.
"Progress is different for everyone"
Yes
I accuse you of not using critical thought but that doesn't mean I use it all the time either most people dont
"In the end progress is what the majority wants and manages to achieve"
Yes
@ez-bri-z Many people disagree with you fems too, but the difference between us is that multiple people have tried to engage with your ideas and your philosophy and you refuse to hear them out and often talk past them and make spurious remarks.
You think I (we) are wrong, so you intentionally misunderstand me (us). Both things can be true.
Literally, a million men could answer a survey of yours detailing why it is they do or do not want to get married, and you would bloody ignore them, downplay or diminish what they are telling you because that is the only way you can keep your damaged ideology congnitively afloat in your head.
Otherwise you would have cognitive dissonance, which is why you're so dismissive of what certain men are telling you is just simply ONE FACTOR of why marriage is declining.
You cling to your feel good evidence/studies, and ignore potential evidence to the contrary, and then have the gall to mouth off about wanting people to consider multiple points of view and engage in critical thinking.
But not if it's critical thinking you don't like! Lmao.
You identify as a feminist so much that you have made it one of your identities. You are ego invested to the max in feminist thought (not all of which is even bad, by the way).
Me? I do not identify as MGTOW or anything like that. I know I am vaguely left-leaning, and I guess I could loosely be described as Red Pill, but I don't even agree fully or get along with many RP men.
I take what Ideas I like and leave the rest.
I WISH that feminism had remained a force for positive good and progressive (forward-thinking), humanitarian change, but I've come to the conclusion that it hasn't.
My ego isn't invested in anti-feminism or pro-feminism. Yours is.
I wanted feminism to succeed, but I do not like what it has become.
That is the difference between how you think and how I do.