3 Reasons to Stop the Gender War (And 3 Ways to Do So)

[samhradh_leannan]

Almost anyone who has had a conversation here on GirlsAskGuys about political, social, or economic issues as they relate to gender can probably attest to the tension and competitive attitude that exists between the genders here. I personally feel that this is incredibly damaging to individuals of all genders, and to our generation as a whole. We are entering trying times that threaten to separate us by political views, religion, race, and creed- let's not let them separate us by gender, too. The contention building between the genders is powerful and deeply rooted, and I'm not naive enough to believe that one myTake will eliminate the problem. But if I can inspire even one person to try to foster peace in their own interactions with the opposite gender, then writing this will be worth it.

Here are my reasons why it's important to stop this war:

1. It's not just about gender.

We're all human beings who have feelings, thoughts, desires, needs, problems, struggles, hopes, and fears. Regardless of gender, each of us is a unique individual with our own experiences and perspective. Members of the opposite gender are as different from each other as other members of your own gender are from you. Making assumptions about who another person is, or what they experience, based purely on their gender is just plain counterproductive.

2. It's not a competition.

All too often, conversations about gender roles or gender based problems morph into competitions to prove that one's own gender is the most disadvantaged or the most poorly treated. There's no way to win this fight. Wanting to prioritize your own problems- those that affect you directly- is totally natural. But every individual is in that position, so trying to prove that your problems are more important simply because they are yours is a waste of time.

3. You'll never know what it's like to be in the opposite gender's shoes.

You can put on a pair of heels or oxfords if you want to. But you will only ever know what it's like to be yourself and to live your own life. Your views of other people and their situations will always be clouded by your own natural biases. That's an inescapable, unavoidable reality of being human. During recent years, gender issues have become much more convoluted and complex. There are now numerous issues that affect each gender. No individual will ever be aware of, or fully understand, every problem that people of the opposite gender may be facing.

So let's end this useless fighting, and try to foster peace between the genders. Here's how:

1. Acknowledge your biases.

When you engage in discussions about gender related issues, remember that you only know what it's like to be your own self and your own gender. You may not fully understand the problems that someone else is dealing with, and that's natural. But never assume that they're not significant to the person who is affected by them just because you don't know what it's like to be in their position.

2. Don't start a competition.

It's simple to argue that a broken leg is a bigger deal than a paper cut. It's not so simple to argue that it's harder to be one gender than it is to be the other- nor should that be the point. The best way to have a meaningful discussion about gender issues is to avoid turning it into a competition in the first place. Any problem that hurts people is an important problem, so skip the comparisons and find something more productive to focus on.

3. Treat others as you want to be treated.

Everyone wants to feel heard and taken seriously. Minimizing someone else's struggles to make your own seem more significant won't get them on your side. Try to empathize with other people's problems the same way you'd want them to empathize with yours. Many of the biggest gender based issues can only be solved if we all work together as a society. Men and women are both human and we need each other, so being on the same side is incredibly valuable- let's learn how to cooperate for everyone's benefit.

Image sources:

intelligentchristianfaith.wordpress.com

huffingtonpost.com

clker.com

https://www.nationaldebtrelief.com

[AleDeEurope]

The gender war isn't something we gotta solve online, it's something we gotta solve in school and at home.
It's the way the single mother talks about men. It's the way the abusive father speaks to his wife. It's the way the teacher favors a gender more than the other.
We also need to have kids spend time with the opposite sex. Having girls/boys only classes or sports, isn't gonna do any good, you need kids to grow up knowing the opposite sex is just like them, and that life is more fun if we're all together.

We also gotta stop giving a platform to divisive people. The government and universities are allowing harpies to spread their hate towards the opposite sex, and we all think it's ok.
Women get taught in university that men are evil, and men go to the internet to talk about how women are evil.

But I believe, just like with the sexist laws, that it could be fixed if we start from when the kids are little and teach them to be respectful and to enjoy the company of the opposite gender. Try as hard as you can not to expose them to sexist beliefs.

P. S.: Saying you expected negative reactions from men in this Take isn't actually helping with the issue you address in this Take. That sort of bias goes against everything you said.

[samhradh_leannan]

You're absolutely right that we can't solve this issue online. But we can share our views and encourage positive action. People look to the internet to communicate and share information- we may as well use that to our advantage.

And you're right, perhaps my comment about expecting negative reactions from men was a little contradictory. But I had that expectation because of real conversations and interactions that I've had here on this site. I didn't intend for my comment to represent a bias against men in general, it just happened that I knew for a fact that there were guys on this site who wouldn't agree with these ideas. So I wasn't surprised when I received some negative feedback from them. I didn't mean to imply that I expected ALL men to react negatively, I just expected a few to.

[RJGraveyTrain]

This is one of the best things I've read so far, I've been saying for a while that in a world already so divided that this gender segregation shit (along with the ongoing war of proving who is the most disadvantaged, as you said) is absolutely tearing us away from our "fellow man" if you will. We're all already so at odds with each other and should be more concerned about the rights of all people, because whatever gender, religion, or sexuality we have, we're all human. We should be standing together against the bullshit, not creating more of it.

Good work on this, I enjoyed it.

[samhradh_leannan]

Thanks! I expected the skeptical responses but it's really nice to hear some positive feedback too. I think if people really would put all the blame and anger aside we would get much farther with this.

[Ramiro1992]

5 dislikes so far, you deserve more, your comment is pathetic

[cth96190]

Gender relations in the West have deteriorated to the point that I believe the situation is terminal.
This was the goal of the Marxist created Feminism movement and it has been spectacularly successful.
Men are discriminated against at school (pedagogy, curriculum, behaviour standards, assessment); in employment (gender bias and gender quotas); in the courts (women receive less than half the sentence that men do for the same crimes); and in divorce law.
The result is that:
1. If a man approaches a woman he risks a career-ending sexual harassment complaint. In Nottinghamshire, England, he can end up in gaol on an Orwellian thought crime charge, if the female decides that she does not like his approach. This is a beta test of a law that Feminists hope to roll out throughout the Western world.
2. If a man goes on a date, he risks a false rape allegation that will destroy his life. The burden of proof is upon him to prove that he did not rape the woman.
3. If a man has consensual sex with a woman and she changes her mind the next morning, week, month, year, or whatever, he risks a false rape allegation that will destroy his life.
4. If a man forms a relationship with a woman, there is a 50 per cent probability (the divorce rate) that she will divorce him and that a court will give her the house, most of his other assets, custody of the children and enslave him for life via a child-support order. If the man is unable or unwilling to pay, men with guns will be sent to drag him away to the modern version of debtors' prison, where he may stay for the rest of his life.
In summary, lobbying by Feminists has made it dangerous for a man to show interest in a woman; to approach a woman; to form a relationship with a woman; and to procreate with a woman.
Intelligent men work on the basis of cost/risk/benefit assessments.
Lobbying by Feminists has caused interaction with women to fail that assessment in the minds of a significant and increasing number of men. It is from this that the Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) movement comes.
Even if the man survives the dating process, there is a 50 per cent probability that he will be destroyed by the women with whom he formed a union.
Women, as a group, have become too dangerous, too toxic, for a rational man to even wish one a good morning.

[samhradh_leannan]

This is what I'm talking about. If you're not interested in mending fences, that's fine, but I am.

[cth96190]

@samhradh_leannan
I believe genuinely that it is too late to fix fences.
From a male point of view, I no longer date women, or even take up some of the sexual propositions that I receive from time to time. It is simply too dangerous for the 'reward' to be worth the risk.
I have learned the hard way that even being alone with a woman can be dangerous, because if she is crazy and spiteful it will be my word against hers. . . and victims should be believed, the Feminist mantra states. Always have witnesses. Always.
Nor do I hold doors open, or offer to help women with heavy tasks any more.
One Feminist too many abused me and called me sexist, condescending, or worse, because I extended a traditional Western social courtesy, or offered to help her.
Now, when I see a woman struggling with a tyre on the side of the road, I keep on driving.
Girls can do anything, after all.

[samhradh_leannan]

If you're happier not dating women, that's fine. This is not about dating. Obviously if you feel the need to be careful, you should be. But that doesn't mean there's no hope that we can get back to a place where men and women can trust and support each other.

[samhradh_leannan]

However, it will require effort from both sides. If you're way beyond any ability to respect women or any desire to foster peace, then you're not the intended audience for this myTake. Which doesn't mean your input isn't still welcome, it's just not that relevant. I know I can't be the only person who wants to get along.

[cth96190]

@samhradh_leannan
I cannot see that happening.
I think that is not a good place to be, because it will result in the collapse of Western Civilisation (which was the intention of the Feminists) through a collapse in the white birth rate.
Due to the wonders of the Internet, the number of men who understand the situation increases every day. Some take the risk, because they are slaves to their hormones and cultural conditioning. Others walk away. Some go MGTOW.
Even if the law was to change today and the batshit insane Feminists were to disappear, it would take at least a generation before men began to trust women again.
Given that women have a fertility window of 20 years, that in practicality comes down to 15 years, even if things changed today we would still be screwed.

[samhradh_leannan]

There are trustworthy women out there. All of this comes back to the issue of judging people based on their gender and not as individuals.

[RhythmBlack]

White birth rate?
If birth rate is going to go down as a whole due feminism, then that's a good thing. Let's not push the Earth past full carrying capacity of the human popuation

[cth96190]

@RhythmBlack
A good thing?
Average white IQ 100. Whites created almost all modern technology and created modern civilisation.
In what universe would be better for the planet and the rest of the people on it if the creators of technology and civilisation went extinct, which is what is happening as we speak?

[RhythmBlack]

7 billion people on the Earth right is not something I'll call going "extinct" But the population needs to be slashed by 1 billion or 2.
Now I wonder why the white IQ will be higher when that skin color seemed to be the most advantageous throughout history and faced little to no harassment/prejudice/unfair treatment from other besides the people with the same skin tone. I wonder.

[cth96190]

@RhythmBlack
The white IQ is higher than other races (except for north-east Asians, who are equal; and Ashkenazi Jews, whose average is 115) because of a combination of factors.
1. During the most recent ice age survival was tough. Those who were not intelligent and willing to work co-operatively did not survive.
2. Whites have 2 per cent DNA from Neanderthals, which creates some significant differences between Europeans and other races.
Re harassment throughout history: you should spend more time reading real history, instead of listing to the lies that are taught during Black History Month.
Nothing was handed to whites on a platter. They worked their arses off and died in their millions to achieve what they have.
At some point, white and black ancestors sat in dirt in a cave. Later, whites left footprints on the Moon. Blacks. . . still in the Stone Age.

[RhythmBlack]

If you read whitewashed history then there is no discussion. Scientists already proved that skin color had nothing to do with factors like intelligence or overall superiority. It's something called adaptation/natural selection my friend.
Again, do not read whatever whitewashed historical garbage you've known all your life, ready all the dirty bits. -Very Interesting. That wasn't taught during Black History Month, it was taught in a history class called APUSH.
Also, take Evolutionary Bio, you learn cool stuff there.
I'm surprised you did not address my population slashing comment.

[ThisAndThat]

Right to the point well said!

[alphadoggystyle]

while your intentions are noble, the underlying main reason why there is a gender is not something that can be avoided by any of the 3 ways you mentioned. The only way the gender war can stop is if we make some big changes to society.
ïts not about being empathetic or knowing what its like to be the other gender, or who has it worse. Its all about the easily proven fact that equality is a myth.
Men are simply more capable than women, and while women compensate that value somewhat with being able to give birth, men still end up being the more productive gender. And for an "equal" society such as the one we have today to be able to work, there is a need to discriminate against men to bring us down to the level of women, all of these laws and welfare programs that aid women are ultimately paid for mostly by male tax payers.
Men realize this and are starting to become less and less productive. It also doesn't help that women become more hypergamous when they select a partner when their needs are already met with the aid of the government. So men help elevate women to fake equality, and then many of these same women get the illusion that the genders are equal and suddenly think they are to good for majority of men, due to how the different sexual instincts the genders have developed through evolution.

this is ultimately what is creating the gender war and divide, and when less and less children are being born, and men are becoming less productive and only working for themselves instead of starting families, and women not being able to replace men in the workforce, we have an imminent societal collapse incoming. this fake equality we have created simply cannot be sustained.

[alphadoggystyle]

and when the collapse happens, things are inevitably going to change into a more patriarchal structure again, and in the long run this will likely improve gender relations, because when people especially women want to survive and fear for their wellbeing, they are going to be far less demanding and entitled.

[samhradh_leannan]

If people choose to respect each other and work together rather than becoming bitter and resentful, we won't have these types of problems. Yes, we have to work together towards big changes as a society. But focusing on placing blame and over-analyzing issues that no one person can possibly fully understand will only drive people farther apart.

[alphadoggystyle]

thats not enough, since men contribute more to society overall, we need to be rewarded/compensated for that in some way, something like more respect by the government and media etc, and in practice this would be that the government would stop interfering with the relationships with men and women, getting rid of concepts such as alimony and quotation laws etc, and letting society become a complete meritocracy, which automatically would result in men having higher authority and more important positions due to our higher capability on average.

[samhradh_leannan]

Your attitude that men contribute more to society is really problematic to the goal of fostering peace between the genders. I get that you feel strongly about it and you clearly have a well thought out theory, but it is still only your opinion. Pushing that issue and working against women rather than embracing the idea of mutual cooperation is only contributing to the type of problem that I'm talking about.

[alphadoggystyle]

but the problem you are not seeing here, is that the concept that men contribute more than women, is not my own attitude and its not only my own opinion. Its an established fact that has been proved in many ways. Its just to controversial to talk about in many sectors so many people are unaware of it, especially women who would not want to admit it regardless of how much evidence is thrown in their face.
A fact will remain a fact regardless of how much someone tries to deny it. If you do not see the source of the problem how are you going to be able to fix it? pretending that the genders are equal is not going to fix anything. We can still cooperate if women at large admit that feminism doesn't work and that the genders are different and men deserve higher authority than them. you will still get special treatment, chivalry might even come back if you start to respect men and admit that we are the dominant gender.

[RhythmBlack]

What you've described is more of a patriarchy than a meritocracy which has been proven exacerbate inequality due to bias.
What you really need to do is eliminate stereotypes and bias. Then society will be able to move forward to a more "equal" civilization.

[samhradh_leannan]

If this is really your stance, then you're obviously not ready to facilitate peace between the genders. Have a nice day.

[alphadoggystyle]

@RhythmBlack You fail to realize that a meritocracy is the same thing as a patriarchy when it comes to humans, a true meritocracy would always result in a patriarchy because men would outperform women in general and the highest positions would be held by men even if we managed to be completely unbiased and only look at results when selecting people for their tasks.

[RhythmBlack]

If you're talking about human intellect aka human capital, then that wouldn't be the case dude. It'll come down to individual performance ability with the elimination of bias.
This what downgrades a society, believing that a man would/will outperform a woman due to gender alone. Now you have an under qualified clown running the show, and a more qualified person is stuck at the same starter position. And that's for all biases in society-white is superior to black (again not the case).
Then you need to factor in the societal bias in helping one person succeed over the other due external factors one can not control.
If we had skill outperform skill then the gender ratios will be more equal. Skill of equal skill.

[alphadoggystyle]

@RhythmBlack again you're wrong. Studies show that men have higher IQ on average than women. Men also dominate in the more difficult STEM fields, and even with bias favoring women such as quotation laws, men still outperform women in the corporate level. In fact there are many studies showing that increased number of women in corporate boards resulted in a decline in overall corporate performance.
Of course not ever man will outperform every woman, but even if we have a goal of eliminating bias towards one gender (which we should) men would in general outperform women due to our gender. Men on average are simply more productive than women. its fact. No ammount of denial and spinning of information is going to change this.

[alphadoggystyle]

@samhradh_leannan
If you are not willing to accept the fact that men are the dominant gender and more capable than women overall, then its you who are not ready to facilitate peace between the genders. its the only way to eliminate the core issue that keeps the gender war alive. Men are not just suddenly going to accept that we are being discriminated against while women are catered to and go along and pretend we are equal. Especially when women typically demand so much more from men than the opposite for a simple interaction and/or romance to develop.

[RhythmBlack]

If both genders were on the same playing field from the beginning of civilization then those would be different. Don't act like every opportunity that a man received was the same opportunity that a woman received from the start of human domestication. The top of those social ladders/ jobs you're talking about are white men. I mean what disadvantage did they face from the beginning of time? They had all their rights from the get go. Everyone else had to work for them. And you think generations, centuries of that is going to change?
Hell no- it's why there needs to be a complete elimination of bias in every sector of life.
If there was no bias, then I'd buy your "men is superior to women". But there is bias, there were disadvantages women faced that men didn't. Then we add religion and sexuality into this-yeah bias~

[alphadoggystyle]

@RhythmBlack there are biases and disadvantages going both ways for both genders in modern society, we have quotation laws and requirements and standards being lowered in many different fields to allow women to "compete" with men. Anyone with common sense would see that even if we managed to eliminate all bias, men would still outperform women on average due to biological superiority.

[RhythmBlack]

Dude you're killing me here, but believe what you want. Okay? Okay.

[Absolute_Revenge]

Look at all the fucking feminists getting angry when @alphadoggystyle puts facts right in front of their fucking faces...

#feminism HAS TO GO

[RhythmBlack]

@Absolute_Revenge what feminist? What he's been saying is not backed up by science or any studies. The meritocracy society has already been proven to breed more inequality due to bias.
His superiority claims isn't backed by any scientific research whatsoever. Men and women have their fundamental differences. And each individual has their fundamental differences and skill sets. Elimination of bias and you start putting people with the same skill sets together then you'll get different results. Others excel more than others.
But if you and alphadoggystyle want to believe whatever you want, go ahead. I ain't go to stop you

[alphadoggystyle]

@RhythmBlack Wrong, everything that i have said here has been backed by evidence and facts. Studies on this has been done in many different ways.
Meritocracy by definition is not unfair because an ideal meritocracy would not have any bias, but a meritocracy would be patriarchal because men are naturally/biologically more capable than women are in most fields of expertise. So what this means is that a meritocracy/patriarchy is the most fair society we can have. Women will still have the same opportunities as men but on average they won't perform as well as men will, equality of outcome between the genders is impossible in this kind of society, but thats not a problem, women should be happy regardless because they will still get privileges such as chivalry.
Men being superior to women overall has been backed by scientific evidence many times and in many ways, but i know people like you will deny it until your last breath, but it won't change anything though, the collapse is coming.

[Tony1974]

The gender wars were started by the feminists and only now are they starting to get blow back for their war on males. The insurrection has just begun and the war just heating up; who knows how long it will be before the bowel movement that is feminism gets flushed by society due to it's toxic and discriminating rhetoric against males.

Funny thing about your last point: men already treat women the way they wish to be treated but we're "too nice"... nobody wants a "pushover" etc. We were good boys and learned from our mothers to treat women with respect and kindness. It's the women who weren't given the same message about men that's the problem. The fact of the matter is men, don't give a shit about 90% of the crap women claim to. So when we look like we're being a pushover we're not. We're just letting you have your way as we don't give a shit either way; life's a lot easier not fighting over minutiae that at the end of the day doesn't fucking matter. The issue seems to be, that when we fight about that 10% that we do care about; we're controlling assholes who must get their own way. Can you see how this would rub us the wrong way? Add that we're still expected to pay for everything... and take the blame when it all goes wrong. Sorry.. I see no detente any time soon...

[evenlift]

"Men and women are both human and we need each other". But, who needs whom more?

As the money for the regulatory-welfare state (on which the illusory era of the independent woman depends) runs out (despite the best efforts of feminists and other collectivists to squeeze even harder), as the Islamist threat grows, as more and more Western men check out of their societies, expect to see more and more pleas for peace.

Feminism has now been going on for more than half a century. And, until very recently, very few women have had anything negative to say about it.

[alphadoggystyle]

well said, women need men far more than the opposite.

[samhradh_leannan]

In around 40% of households, women are the sole or primary breadwinner. Independent women are not an illusion. Women are turning against feminism because it has morphed into hateful misandry, not because they can't support themselves.

[alphadoggystyle]

i looked up that quote of yours, this was also included in the article:

"This can be attributed to some people considering themselves to be the main income earner in their household when they are not."

www.nab.com.au/.../women-report-being-main-bread-winner-in-almost-40-percent-of-households

[alphadoggystyle]

So those numbers are clearly not fully accurate. In the few cases that this is true though, it usually doesn't last long, as men outearn women by far over their lifetime career. In the early ages like between 20-30, women have a good opportunity to outearn men due to quotation laws and scholarships, prioritizing women over men in the name of feminism, which is the reason why women graduate more often than men today, these "higher education" jobs usually have a higher entry salary compared to non academic physical labour jobs that many men take instead of pursuing studies, however the earning potential plateau is usually lower in many of those academic fields that women pursue, like humanities etc. So men end up outearning women in the long run still.

[evenlift]

@samhradh_leannan Female independence is an illusion maintained by the regulatory-welfare state. Women are still dependent on men, just not necessarily on their husbands, fathers, etc.

Women are adult human beings. They have the faculty of reason. They are capable of leading rational, productive, independent lives. Unfortunately, they don't. The regulatory-welfare state hits them especially hard, because gynocentrism is such a strong feature.

Feminism has been obviously misandric for half a century! Read the second-wave feminists! (In fact, though, even first-wave feminism was misandric, though less obviously so.) So, why do women care now? The answer is that men have finally started to respond against it, even if much of the response is inaction rather than action, implicit rather than explicit, such as not asking out women, not pursuing sex, not wanting to have children or to get married, avoiding predominantly-female spaces.

[Anonymous]

I don't really think there's a "gender war" going on. I think some women are just complaining... very loudly. And acting like all other women feel the same way.

I guess you could say I've always considered myself a liberal democrat... but I'm not sure that rings true anymore since it's changed considerably in the last two years.

But no. Just one side is complaining really... so is it really a war? And most women I don't think really agree with what's going on with "feminism" today so...

That said, I definitely see a race war starting with the media causing the chaos it is.

[AleDeEurope]

There are men complaining too, though, but they're doing it silently, because they can't go out in the streets yelling how much they hate women. Women can do that, so it seems like more women are complaining, but men are complaining online. There's many forums where all men do is complain. MGOTW and shit like that. Even on GAG (though there's a pretty even amount of complainers here).
Men are forced to complain online because they can't do it in real life.

I do agree that there is a race war, and it's the media causing the chaos.

[samhradh_leannan]

I actually notice more complaints from men, myself. It makes sense that there are many different perspectives on this.

[Opinion Owner]

I mean MGTOW is a good example of complaining haha! But to me, most of these complaints are a reaction.

You can't insult someone over in over, calling them the worst names and not expect a comeback.

samhradh, I'm not quite sure where you live that men complain more? But that's never been my experience. In fact, I feel like most men I know only complain when they don't see a way to fix the problem themselves or they're trying to explain their side.

My point is, I don't think defending yourself from people trying to rub your name or character in the dirt, is "complaining".

I don't think this is a gender war because both parties aren't trying to fight. To me, this looks like a power struggle coming from women who have a lot of built up hatred toward men. And men just resisting.

[samhradh_leannan]

That's true, but the issue I see is that the guys who are complaining (which admittedly I see mostly online, not in person) tend to lump all women together with the ones they are reacting to. That's the biggest problem that I've noticed about it.

[backdoorman]

@samhradh_leannan How would you expect men to feel about women when women blame men for complaining about man-haters rather than pointing the finger at the source of the problem. Maybe men wouldn't be so quick to judge all women if they felt like most women actually disliked man-haters more than the men who react to them. Just a thought.

[backdoorman]

@Opinion Owner Thank you for your unbiased honesty.

[samhradh_leannan]

@backdoorman Nobody should be judging an entire gender based on one group. It's an unreasonable, illogical, and counterproductive thing to do. That's really all it comes down to. There is no good reason to let yourself fall into that way of thinking. Women shouldn't do it, men shouldn't do it. Period.

[backdoorman]

@samhradh_leannan I think you missed my point, but I do agree with what you just wrote.

[samhradh_leannan]

@backdoorman I think I understand your point, I just don't think it's fair to hold all women responsible for the fact that those men are jumping to conclusions. I don't hold all men responsible for the fact that some of them are misogynists. I have more respect for men on the whole than to assume they're all sexist jerks based on a few bad experiences. Women are used to being the ones who have to stand up for themselves. I think perhaps some men (not all, of course) are so accustomed to the idea that men automatically should have the upper hand that they don't know how to handle the idea that not everyone on the planet is going to automatically respect them or automatically care about their needs just because of their gender. Long story short, these guys might be a little spoiled when it comes to this stuff. Again, this is not all guys, and again, I am not condoning modern feminism or misandry here. Not at all. Just trying to analyze the situation.

[samhradh_leannan]

What I'm really saying is, yes, the women involved here (misandrists/modern feminists) are at fault for how they're treating men and for the attitudes and beliefs that they're promoting. But men do have the ability to choose to see that not all women are that way. If they are turning against all women so easily, that is something they are allowing to happen. If those particular men wanted to see the best in women and facilitate peace, then they would allow themselves to recognize that not all women are that way. Just as many/most women recognize that many/most men are good and decent people despite experiencing sexism and disrespect from some individuals.

[backdoorman]

My point was that criticizing men for reacting negatively to feminist hate is very backward. Your anger should be directed at the source of the problem, not at the people reacting to it. Men's reactions are part of the natural process of protesting against an injustice. I would think a woman who takes pride in how women have stood up for themselves would be a little more appreciative of that fact. It sounds to me like your reaction to men's protest is an emotional rather than logical one. If you allow men's reactions to feminism to hurt your feelings it will cloud your judgment. We should stay focused on the real issue.

[backdoorman]

And that brings up the question of why women themselves are not protesting more about this, which is a big part of this equation. We hear a lot of women who complain about how men judge women as a whole based on the bad things feminists do and say, but we see very little from women in terms of actually speaking out against those feminists. I think I speak for most most men when I say that we would feel a whole lot better about women in general they showed more support for men in pushing back against that bad things feminism does. Why are women not more vocal against the negativity of feminism? Is it because they agree with it? That is what we are left to assume?

[samhradh_leannan]

@backdoorman I'm not criticizing these men for reacting negatively to feminist hate. Not in the least. I'm criticizing them for having so little faith in women and so little respect for them that it's this easy for them to assume that a few crazy feminazis represent the average woman. I have as much right to be frustrated by getting lumped together with misandrists as you would if women lumped you together with misogynists for no good reason. I speak out against misandry when I see it, and I agree with you that more women should speak out against it. We need to work together as a society here, and that includes women. However, men have a role in standing up for themselves as well, just as women always have. And if men want to get more people on their side, they shouldn't ostracize and freeze out good women who care about them by lashing out against them for things they didn't do. You wouldn't respond well to that either.

[samhradh_leannan]

Which comes back to my main point in writing this myTake: This is an issue that requires peaceful, respectful communication in order to make progress. Biting the hand that feeds you rarely gets anyone anywhere. Lashing out against totally innocent members of the opposite gender will make enemies where you could have made allies. That's just the truth.

[samhradh_leannan]

And if you disagree, or you think that's unfair, or not fun, or too much work- tough luck. That's how we make progress with an issue like this. I am a woman standing here asking members of BOTH genders to let go of their baggage and stand up for each other and fight for fairness and respect each other's needs. And instead of talking about how we can move forward together as a society, I'm having a debate with you about whether or not men should get to hate me because of something some other girl said. So what does that say about this whole situation?

[backdoorman]

I was not debating you on whether men should get to hate you for what feminists do. That's not what I said at all. You continue to avoid addressing the point I was actually making.

If you were actually interested in moving forward, as you claim, you would be interested in talking about real problems and their sources, and you don't seem to be at all. I suspect you think that's too much work. Well tough luck. I'm done here.

[samhradh_leannan]

It says that even though I respect men and care about their needs, you still can't bring yourself to say "hey, you're right, you don't deserve to be hated and resented and bitched at for something you never did, because you're human and no human deserves that". It says that even though I was the first one to extend my hand and say "I care about your problems, let's work together to solve them," you're still to proud to take the deal. And that is a really sad state of affairs, let me tell you.

[samhradh_leannan]

I wanted to talk about real issues. But I wanted to talk about them in a calm, respectful way that did not involve throwing blame around like food during a food fight. Clearly that was too much to expect.

[Anonymous]

Nice take, and thank you for writing it. But there is a fact that wasn't mentioned that is critical to turning the corner and beginning a new chapter in gender relations. Feminism has to go, period. It is THE source of the hate between the genders and until we all recognize that, noting will change. Women will continue to hate men because feminism has taught them to, and men will continue to hate women because women hated men first. All the 'takes' in the world will not change anything until we acknowledge that simple and clear fact.

[BuchitaBuchys]

"Women hated men first", yes. Let's forget the fact that in history we weren't even treated as nothing more than bargaining chips. Cattle exchange for young brides.

[samhradh_leannan]

All extreme, radical activists for specific genders have to go, or at least find a way to advocate for their needs in a peaceful and inclusive way.

[Opinion Owner]

@BuchitaBuchys So, what you're saying is that feminist hate men out of revenge. Nice. Regardless, that is history and yet today's feminists continue to monger hatred for today's men as if they are somehow at fault for what happened throughout history.

@samhradh_leannan Today feminism is nothing more than a platform for extremism. That will never change for the better; it will only continue to get worse as sane women continue to distance themselves from feminism leaving only the extremists. Women as a whole need to show some honesty and collectively denounce feminism. Nothing will change until that happens. All the gender hatred flows from feminism, directly or indirectly. If feminism went away today, MRAs and MGTOW and all the other gender "movements" would disappear tomorrow because they would have nothing left to hate.

[Opinion Owner]

Men have every reason to be angry at women today, and the ball is in women's court to take some steps to reconcile and own up to what feminism has done.

[JuliaHarris]

You want to end the gender war? Tell feminists and MRAs to get lost. They are causing just as many problems as the actual sexists are.
Fortunately, I see the no evidence that both sides are nothing more than a vocal minority that exists on the internet; I rarely encounter actual sexism by men in real life.

[samhradh_leannan]

Telling people to get lost is just not the approach I'm going for here.

[JuliaHarris]

You're trying to build bridges with people who are diametrically opposed to building bridges. It is impossible to please everyone and it is stupid to try.

[samhradh_leannan]

You may be right. Perhaps I was too optimistic.

[JuliaHarris]

There is nothing wrong with being optimistic, but I think that your third point about ''not knowing what it is like to be in each other's shoes'' is the greatest barrier here. Both sides think they have it worse and both have facts to prove it. You cannot reason with people like that.

[samhradh_leannan]

True. It seems like people who truly believe that their gender is worse off or that the opposite gender is at fault are simply not willing to put that aside.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Lol I like this take.
I don't think most people are this rabid in real life though, at least I hope not :x.

[BuchitaBuchys]

My god the men in this take prove that they prefer us to be lack rights as long as they're happy

[samhradh_leannan]

The reactions from men are pretty much what I expected. More determination that women are the problem. We have to move away from those kinds of attitudes if we really want peace... that's exactly what this myTake was about.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Peace is looking to be more of a dream than a reality

[Unit1]

Ooohhh!
Tell me all about it.
At least it's only on the internet like that. Hence I make short breaks from it and see the outside world. When I go outside I see nothing of it: No misogyny, no misandry, no feminists and no MGTOWs.

You will have to take great caution when taking opinions from the internet. I was almost brainwashed myself.

[samhradh_leannan]

@Ramiro1992 Hey. Do not tell people to go die on this myTake please.

[Ramiro1992]

don't tell me what to say, I am free to say whatever I want

[samhradh_leannan]

@Ramiro1992 Actually you're not free to instruct people to go and die, and the fact that your comment was removed is proof of that.

[Ramiro1992]

yes I am free, it's called free speech

[samhradh_leannan]

@Ramiro1992 Free speech does not give you permission to say needlessly hurtful, death-oriented comments to others based on their beliefs. That's where discrimination comes in.

[Ramiro1992]

ok sorry I guess i was mad at feminism, I have my reasons

[Ramiro1992]

there you go playing the victim again, like every feminist does, you are PATHETIC

[BuchitaBuchys]

@Unit1 lol trueeeeee

[Greek_God]

Yeah, this is a normal attitude. And I do not consider men or women superior. I see it the way it is - yin and yang. The thing us with feminism and similar retarded shit, there are girls who actually believe girls are superior at everything. And reading feminist posts has to piss you off at some point, because the amount of bullshit and stupidity is really impressive.

[BubbleBoy69]

In our current time period women are superior.

[alphadoggystyle]

@BubbleBoy69 no they are not, some of them have the illusion of it, but men are biologically superior to women, always have and always will be.

[BubbleBoy69]

@alphadoggystyle Actually they do when it comes both in terms of money generation and society backing them from the courts to the government.

[alphadoggystyle]

@BubbleBoy69 women are more catered to than men are in this time period, i think this is what you where trying to say. But men are still superior, that is something which doesn't ever change because it is based on biological factors.

[BubbleBoy69]

Read first 11 points highlighted and look at society now. Notice anything?

https://i.imgur.com/Ys6OfP8.jpg

[BubbleBoy69]

Also read directly below it.

[ShallowNight26]

There is a little red book called the communists hand book. (least I think that's what it was called. And it out lined about what you have there. Also The Agenda-21 is much like that. I like history cause it shows you where we came from. When accurately used on context it gives you a prediction about where we're headed. This then gives you ideas on how to avoid it.

[Unit1]

I thought this website was supposed to serve that exact purpose.
Count me in!

But unfortunately we have quite some bitter users here, which opinions I disregard instantly if I sense any amount of sexism.
You know what I do?
I simply leave the gender wars be and leave it resolving itself. It's a self correcting process and there is no need to participate in it, as long as you stay away from it, it will not impact you.

[jacquesvol]

Then came the announcement that Hillary would be the DEM candidate and the gender flaming started all over the net.

[Unit1]

@jacquesvol Which is why I stay away from political stuff too.
Then again, let feminists and MGTOW beat each another while I make peace with the opposite sex.

[Ramiro1992]

this site is 100% feminist, I was banned for being against feminism, another garbage website promioting jews, leftists and feminists

[Djaaaay]

In (war) there's always a looser. But in gender war , both become losers... because we're designed to be with each other instead. When someone says a round peg doesn't fit in a round hole , thier stupid.

[Mrwoo99]

If you want to end the gender war then can somebody please eliminate the problem that's causing this like urmm... feminism? Ever since it was created its done nothing but warp the minds of innocent women in to evil crazed misandrists.

Feminism is no different to ISIS and is still just in the early stages as we approach third wave feminism, soon they will be finding a way to make a law to probably cut men's heads off lol.

[samhradh_leannan]

Feminism is no different from ISIS? Now that's a new one.

Yes, I agree, modern radical feminism is a big problem. But pointing fingers is not the solution. Freedom of speech means that radical feminists are technically within their rights to protest and express their views, so we need to find positive, productive ways to end hate between the genders rather than simply trying to shut people up.

[Mrwoo99]

Sweetheart I'm not pointing fingers. I'm identifying the problem of this gender war and in order to find a solution is to first identify the problem. If you read your history, this gender war didn't come about until Zionism created the toxic ideology called feminism. Humanity were doing fine with the traditional structure which benefited us all but now its a divorce epidemic thanks to feminism. This ideology is not about rights that it proclaims... its about bad intentions and divide. Woman if your going to talk to me then know what your talking about rather than feed me with BS that you hear on mainstream feminist media.

[samhradh_leannan]

I agree that modern feminism has become a problem. But as a woman, I'm incredibly grateful to have the rights I have today, and I have no interest in going back to a time where I would not have had the same choices and opportunities.

[Ramiro1992]

you are so right, feminism needs to end now

[Sublime45]

Want to stop a gender war? Ask yourself (if you are a man) What is it that I do that ticks women off? Ask yourself (if you are a woman) What in the world did I do to make that guy hate me?

[samhradh_leannan]

This isn't about being perfect in the opposite gender's eyes, or pleasing everyone. It's about being willing to put aside your frustrations and understanding that the other side might be experiencing something similar, and focusing on cooperation rather than making everything into a battle.

[Sublime45]

I disagree

[samhradh_leannan]

Trying to make everyone happy is a recipe for disaster. We need to learn tolerance and forgiveness, and to set blame aside.

[Sublime45]

No, saying everyone needs tolerance is stupid and not everyone is willing to forgive. No, just no.

[samhradh_leannan]

Then what do you suggest? Everyone wants something different, you can't please an entire gender.

[JDavid25]

This post is true enough.. I do believe we need to realize that we don't always understand each other, and sit down to try and understand, instead of demanding it.. Nice mytake..

[Scrambledagain]

none of what you said gets a man laid lol. No gender war my side, but fact, men can't get sex as easily as women hence we have to do the fucked up shit we do. Which is fine, whatever. But women must not get the shits when we do things like play you, pay for sex etc.

[samhradh_leannan]

If you want something from the opposite gender, that's just one more reason to try to get along.

[Scrambledagain]

I get along very well with women. Owe my business success to my collaboration with women, and female directors.

Doesn't get you laid. Have tons of female friends. Doesn't get you laid though.

I'm just saying, you are right, but it doesn't get you laid.

[samhradh_leannan]

Well, be that as it may, getting people laid is not my priority here. It's a separate issue.

[Scrambledagain]

Yip. Unfortunately though because of this fact I speak of, there will be a bit of animosity between the genders. For example: I can't get laid so I get sex workers. I'm cool, treat them well, get along with women. I'm a good person. But I finally meet a girl who likes me, I tell her about my past, in a nutshell she can't handle it. She thinks men are creeps and pigs, I think women are stupid and unfair. And then these distortions are born.

Sex is powerful. That's why it's important. But that's another debate and I will leave it at that.

[samhradh_leannan]

I don't feel that comfortable with a guy who's hired prostitutes either. I mean, it's your choice if you want to do it, but I don't find it an attractive quality. If it was an in the past, long time ago, regret it, changed since then type of deal I could get past it, but otherwise it would bother me. At the end of the day, we all make choices that can cause us to become more or less attractive to the opposite gender. It's just about priorities, I guess. If being attractive to the opposite sex (in the sense of finding a relationship) was more important to you, you would probably choose not to hire prostitutes.

[Scrambledagain]

Exactly my point. Now. Here is the fun part. Did you know they estimate 15% of men have paid for sex in Australia. It's probably more. There are similar stats around the world.

[Scrambledagain]

Sent that a bit early. But yeah. There is a reason for this number. Bottom line, what makes a man attractive is something that many men cannot achieve and hence this massive industry. its this unfairness that makes a lot of men bitter. Whether I got an escort or not is irrelevant. I'm either attractive or I'm not.

[samhradh_leannan]

Very few people are objectively unattractive to the point where there is no chance for them to find a relationship. If you really think you're not attractive enough to date, you may simply be going after the wrong women. I know what it's like to be a person who doesn't get much attention from the opposite gender, and I know how much it sucks, especially when you compare yourself to the people out there who are constantly turning heads. But you don't have to be attractive to every girl, you just have to be attractive to the right one. So don't lose hope. Unless you want to, in which case, go for it.

[Scrambledagain]

... I will leave it here.

Thanks for the kind words

[Mrwoo99]

@Scrambledagain "I get along very well with women. Owe my business success to my collaboration with women, and female directors.

Doesn't get you laid. Have tons of female friends. Doesn't get you laid though.

I'm just saying, you are right, but it doesn't get you laid."

If your successful and good looking why can't you get laid without paying for it?

[Scrambledagain]

@Mrwoo99 again. A thousand times over again, what makes a man unnatractive isn't just looks. I nowhere said I'm good looking. All I said is that (in the other threads I'm assuming) I have a 6 pack, v lines and am pretty ok financially. I have a friend who is a multi millionaire at my age and he had had it far worse in dating than me.

For me, if I have to be honest, my biggest problems are the age old "I'm too nice". I'm too good to women. I mean even getting sex workers is being good to women because I'm not playing them. Eventhough it changing slowly thank goodness.

[meowcow]

I particularly like women who think pregnancy is male-engineered form of domination over women. Yup... mother nature didn't make men and women what they are... it was men.

[WriterAndPainter]

Thank you for admitting that.., lol I've never heard that before lol there's some crazy folks out there.

[Anonymous]

That's the same thing I tell most feminist. But they won't listen. So you should go tell your fellow female gagers in order. You should try to get them to listen. If not then it is what it is - This is war.

[samhradh_leannan]

This requires cooperation and facilitation from both sides.

[Opinion Owner]

The men have been ready since the 2nd wave.

[Absolute_Revenge]

And i hope that this gender war progesses to outright slaughter. Women wanted a war, we'll give you a god damn war alright!

[samhradh_leannan]

@Absolute_Revenge If any women are asking for war, they don't represent the majority.

[Opinion Owner]

Women need men to perpetuate their deception. Look at all the manginas cosigning. I don't blame the women. Their just being women, "Ecclesiastes 7:28 - while I was still searching but not finding-- I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all". No surprise there. Women are what they are. But guys it's those manginas that are truly wicked and they must be addressed.

[Ramiro1992]

you people already made a ridiculous movement called feminism, you started this, you need to fix this, go tell your stupid dumbass feminist friends that they are hated worldwide

[Anonymous]

Lol instead of the world stopping all the sexism and hatred between the genders on the internet the sexism and hatred has spilled out into mainstream media. The sex fights that used to happen on forums in random websites are now happening in person and getting media coverage.

It's getting much worse not better.

[samhradh_leannan]

That's why I want to help stop it.

[Ramiro1992]

you are not helping to stop it

[Love_Is_Eternal]

As long as women keep allowing themselves to be brainwashed by the media and feminism, the gender war will never end.

[WriterAndPainter]

Is it bad that I agree with this 110% (your opinion)

[Love_Is_Eternal]

@WriterAndPainter Of course not. It's the truth.

[WriterAndPainter]

I agree.

[samhradh_leannan]

The media might play a role, but women aren't the only ones on the defensive.

[Love_Is_Eternal]

I'm not saying they are, but if we get to the very root of where the problem is coming from, it is feminism and the brainwashing of the media that is fueling most of the conflict between men and women, and most of the feminism and media brainwashing is aimed at women.

[WriterAndPainter]

It's the same thing with the racial divide. It's media driven in people that are uneducated about the issue as a whole.

[Megalizmo21]

This is like the most truthful thing I've heard all day. 🙌