Husband got a vasectomy without telling me, is this grounds for divorce?

[Anonymous]

So before marriage we both agreed we only wanted 1-2 kids. But about a year after we got married he started saying that he didn't want any kids at all. I told him we should wait it out and see what happens, but that we should still keep that option open, he agreed. A few months ago he came home and told me he had gotten a vasectomy. I was devistated. Things haven't really been the same since. I'm not sure I can be with him anymore.

[PlacentaSalad]

People are saying that it is bad that he didn't discuss it with you, and that's true, but it is his body and therefore his decision to the vasectomy in the end. I don't get why people excuse this idea that women get control over their own body, while also having control over his. In the end, discussing it wouldn't really do anything because clearly, he changed his mind about having children. Do you really want children with a guy who was debating on having a vasectomy to prevent pregnancy?

If you want children, and you two had initially agreed upon that and that's partly why you married him, then sure, it's probably best you divorce him as now there are serious incompatibilities in the marriage. I doubt you're open to adoption or going to a sperm bank to inseminate yourself. If you don't want the divorce, then you can try to get him to reverse the process, but really, this would be selfish on your part as well. A guy who doesn't want kids probably isn't going to make for the best father.

[NearlyNapping]

A few things wrong here.

First, he lied to you about something important.

Second, you want kids and he doesn't. That's a major problem in a marriage.

Third, you didn't say his age, but if he's near your age I think that's way too young to have a vasectomy. Just because he doesn't want kids now doesn't mean he won't change his mind. Nobody that age knows how they will think and feel about things 10-20 years in the future.

Is it grounds for divorce? Being in agreement about kids is a major part of marriage. In my opinion it's one of the biggest compatibility issues there is. He also lied to you about something obviously very important. Only you can decide if that's grounds for divorce.

[Asker]

He's 28

[NearlyNapping]

That's still young, but not quite so bad as early 20s. Even at that age a lot of people change their minds later.

[Dooby7584]

I got a vasectomy at 18. Asked my doctor about it at age 14-17 and at 18 got the vasectomy. Mid thirties now. Still happy with that decision.

[AskAlthea]

Honestly, yes. He made a major life decision that impacts both of you without consulting you. This is a decision that will also impact you, and you two are a couple, thus that is a decision that should be made together. The fact he didn't consult you, would make me wonder if perhaps he doesn't value or care about your thoughts/opinions/feelings on the matter. Have you talked to him and asked him why he made such a major decision without talking to you first? You are married, I assume you had a few years with him (dating + marriage) and likely had a good relationship leading up to this, so before you divorce him, I think you should talk to him. Maybe he has a good reason for why he made that decision alone, I can't imagine a sufficient reason but give him the benefit of the doubt and ask. And see if it's something you two can work through. If not, then sure, get a divorce, but I would suggest to try to work it out first.

[Anonymous]

It is his total right to make that decision for himself - and he has to do what is right for him, even if you can't understand why he did it. But at the same time, I see why you're hurt by it. I was a big decision.

Ultimately for me, I decided I wanted my particular husband in my life MORE than I needed children, so I chose not to have children. (He didn't have a vasectomy, but he insists on condoms, though I am on BC also.) I also knew that if I really insisted, we could probably have had children, but I didn't want that either.

Take the time you need to wrap your head around this, and decide if he is worth more in your life than having children would be. I think it's ok for you to decide either way. It's sad. It's very sad, but you have to do what is right for you too.

[btbc92]

Yes, this is definitely grounds for divorce. That is considered marriage fraud and he lied about wanting kids. You want kids and he proved that he doesn't want that with you. Somebody who doesn't own up to their commitments or vows have destroyed those commitments and vows. Therefore there is no marriage. If somebody did that to me, I would be more than devastated. I would call a divorce lawyer that same day. That is cruel and uncalled for. If he never wanted kids, he should have never got married. Let alone to you.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Aren't you suppose to be Christian?

[btbc92]

I am a Christian. But if he promised to have kids with her and he go get a vasectomy done, he committed fraud against her. And already destroyed the marriage. That is considered fraud.

[btbc92]

And another thing as well. If he doesn't reverse that situation she is within every right to divorce because they will look at this being the cause of the argments and the deteoration of the marriage. That is why don't get married without finding this out.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

That's not ground for divorce though. I know that guy hurt her. But she has to forgive him not divorce him like you are advocating.

[btbc92]

I'm not advocating for hard to get a divorce. the point is that is legal grounds for divorce according to where she lives. that is still considered marriage fraud.

[btbc92]

you have to remember something if they are not Christian they're going to do whatever it is they want to do. they do not believe what you and I believe. and even so they was still such things in the Bible but it was not listed. why because marriage is however way we decide to do so but within reason. obviously the most legal thing that God would not condone is adultery. but things that he done breaks down the marriage. her reasons for getting married is that have biological children with her husband. he promised her that and that is part of the marriage covenant. damn foot by him doing what he did that is treachery and that is stealing from the marriage Union. his body does not belong to him alone and neither does her body belong to her alone. therefore he does not get to make that decision by himself. so since he done that she's going to lose complete trust in him and she's going to eventually divorce him anyway. and I will not blame her for it.

[btbc92]

however this is why you ask this question that's going to go off of it hinders your ability to stay married before you get married. otherwise marriage should not be permitted.

this is how it was done back in those days in the times of Moses. they would interview whoever it is that you want to get married to all that you arranged to be with. If anything hinders you from having kids or the ability to have sex, you would not be permitted to marry. But these days people don't think on that level. You don't lie to your spouse. If he so much was against kids he should have never married her. That's why you don't just get married out of love. This is what happens when you do.

[btbc92]

he did what he did*

[Dooby7584]

Not sure where you are from but in the United States it is not marriage fraud. Marriage fraud is only a case when a US citizen marries a foreigner with no intention of creating a martial relationship.

I understand your emotion behind it but in this case it would end in either anullment or divorce. The reason for divorce would be either no fault divorce or irreconcilable differences depending on the State.

People are always entitled to change their mind even after entering a marriage.

[btbc92]

I live in the states, and any lie that causes problems on any marriage can be considered fruad as you are impersonating a person your not.

[btbc92]

What your talking about has to deal with immigration issues. Not divorce. That is a whole nother ballgame.

[btbc92]

For an example, if you told your spouse before or during dating you were a virgin. And you had sex and evidence points that you was not a virgin, you had other peoplw, that can be cause for annulment for that was not the agreement. You lied, and you misrepresented yourself. That's considered fraud. And therefore that can be considered a reasonable situation to terminate a marriage because that person would have never married you otherwise. That person felt cheated on, used and abused. It has more to do with just emotions. It has everything to do with the legal matters both spiritually and physically. That's why you always come clean and you never hide the thing to a person that you said that you love. Because all it takes is for them to find out and you'll be surprised when they are divorce papers on your desk. Love is a choice. It is not based on how you feel. But if what you need in a marriage is contingent based on loyalty, truth and honesty, how are you going to have a marriage based on a lie? You are interviewex and asked personal questions for a reason. Before you decide to tie the knot. What you're talking about is something that can legally put you are the person and the other that you chose to marry in jail due to faudree against the government.

[btbc92]

Annulment is no fault divorce. It is still divorce without going through all of the court process thag cam take years depending on how long you married, if there is an assets, children, etc. It is not the same. What you're saying would have to be disgust at in immigration Darrell and or a lawyer who deals with immigration and divorce proceedings concerning marring foreigners and immigrating into another country.

[Dooby7584]

I'm only speaking from a legal perspective. You can obtain an at fault divorce still for impotency but the legal expenses to pursue an at fault divorce is not worth it when you can obtain a no fault divorce citing irreconcilable differences for the cost of filing the paperwork with the courts. As for fraud that isn't an at fault divorce reasoning. You cannot prove fraud because as I stated anyone can change thier mind even after divorce. Now depending on the State she could obtain an at fault divorce for his impotency. However the reasoning would be impotency not fraud.

[btbc92]

No you're speaking it from a biased perspective which is why you're posting on others comments about how you had a vasectomy at 18. Please come clean because you just proving my point.

[btbc92]

And if you hire a private investigator technically you can.

[Dooby7584]

Even after marriage*

[btbc92]

Fraud is very much at fault reasoning because you chose to lie and hide from a person instead of being honest from the beginning. Do you honestly think I'm going to marry a lier? No I am not. And vefore you say anything else, my late mother was in the process of divorce from my father. It id very much can be considered the case espwcially from one of mt criends who divorced ger husband. It very much can be done.

[btbc92]

Again, if you never told your wife you had a Vasectemy, BEFORE you tied the knot, it is fruad. Vasectomy is a choice. Impotency is not. So unless we have your medical records that prove that there is a significant reason as to why you had to get up at SEPTA me done, such as cancer or other related diseases, you did it for your own personal reasons was more likely to not have kids at the fool around like a rabbit in heat. Tell the truth please. This is where women lose a lot of respect for men.

Just like give a woman did the same thing to a man, he has every right to do what he needs to do. Man or woman, if you lie, expect there to be consequences. Marriage is not a game nor a toy.

[Dooby7584]

You are taking personal offense to my statement. That was not my intention and I do apologize for that. I in no way said you would marry a liar.

What I stated before, a no fault divorce would cost the filing of paperwork with the courts. Proving he was at fault could cost thousands or tens of thousands of dollars for the appropriate representation. Reasoning for the divorce can only be the following: cruelty, adultery, a felony conviction, abandonment, living apart, and commitment in a mental institution.

I'm not saying she could not prove cruelty or anything I'm saying fraud is not technically a reason. It can be part of the evidence but it is nn not marriage fraud

nThat is all I was saying.

[Dooby7584]

Also 17 states do not recognize at fault divorces anymore and are strictly no fault divorce States.

[Dooby7584]

Also yes I had a vasectomy at 18. And I am happily married. Both me and my wife are both child free by choice.

[btbc92]

Again, you are missing the point. Lying is very much at fault. Therefore you can still get a divorce. No fault is this considered easier so they can get away from you.

[btbc92]

And I can see why they would immediately change it to no fault. Does a high increase of abuse and domestic violence and killings. Once you start pointing fingers you never know what somebody maybe out to take your life. My advice to you is if you're not going to take marriage seriously stay single. Do not get married. There was no logical reason for you to get a vasectomy.

[btbc92]

And if you say you're happily married what and I only hope and pray that you're able to keep it. That is your personal choices. What you choose to do have nothing to do with other people's choices and it's best you stay out of it. What goes on between you and your wife is between you and her. I can only hope and pray you both can keep it. And I can only hope and pray you don't want to be wanted to change your mind later on. You're around my age, but things can change very drastically once you get past 30. Remember the vow. To death do you apart.

[Dooby7584]

My wife is ten years older than me. So not really worried about it.

My whole point of posting was fault divorces are not the norm anymore. They are expensive and you have to typically have evidence to assert your fault to a judge. Unless your estate is worth millions, pursuing an at fault divorce is typically not worth it. I have been in the military for 17 years and saw many people go through divorces. What I advised anyone to do once they decided they were going ahead with divorce was to keep things as amicable as possible. Divorce is expensive for both parties and trying to show the other person at fault is just typically an unnecessary expense. Moreover, if children were involved you still had to coparent with the other party and for the best Interest of the child it would be to keep the divorce as amicable as possible.

This whole mindset of wanting to prove fault whether children are involved or not does not serve anyone.

Well unless you have a huge estate to fight over. However, that's probably not most people.

[Dooby7584]

As for me wanting to get a vasectomy at age 14. I decided then I didn't want to have biological children. I decided if I did have children in the future it would be through adoption. I made that decision and have not faltered on it for more than 20 years now. I got the vasectomy at age 18 so I could ensure if I did have sex in the future it would not result in pregnancy. From my point of view I was being responsible and also taking the burden off any woman I would be dating to be the provider of birth control.

[btbc92]

Buddy. All that I'm hearing from you is that you are not stuck a lot of my stable and you got issues. Problems from fears that have nothing to do with anybody else. Fears that stems from you when you was a child and you need healing. That also tells me you are not in a good marriage, you married somebody 10 years your senior, it tells me a lot about why you got married. Out of fear. This is not about love. This is fraud. This is not a marriage. But a marriagw of convience. What goes on between you and her is between you and her. Stop spreading that toxicity two other people that have nothing to do with your personal.

[btbc92]

You don't need adoption. You need psychological help. And no child deserves to grow up in a family where they're not healthy and psychologically stable. You definitely don't need to be adopting a kid. You need to get deep within yourself and find out the root of why you fear of having biological children? Because it sounds like a generational curse to me that you need Deliverance from by the grace of God. You use women, sex, and your marriage to hide like a coward. By the way how this is sounding, I don't think this is a marriage that is going to last for long. Do you not realize adoption is not easy and handling an adopted child is not the same as handling your biological children? You don't know where they've been. You don't know who they are. You don't know what they are. And you don't know what you could be handling and dealing with. This is what I'm talkin about concerning about spiritual matters. It is very serious. And you don't want to introduce a child into your her and you don't know what you're picking up. Let alone bringing in an innocent child to your home and they don't know what kind of person they going to be having for parents. I think it's very clear both for you are not happy people as you claim yourself to be. If you don't want the responsibility of being a parent, then why are you looking to adopt? That's a red flag and I don't think any of the option agency is going to want to have you to be having a child and you don't have your own life together because you don't sound psychologically straight.

[btbc92]

Children are not placeholders. They are not for your personal benefit. They are people meant to grow to become their own person. You don't want to turn a blessing into a curse. And if that's your fear, then you need to deal with that fear before you even think about having have children. Before you end up ruining those children's lives because you're the one that feel screwed up. You were way too young to be thinking about getting a vasectomy. So no. You do want kids. But you're lying. This is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't even know what the heck are you even married to this woman for. Sounds like everything you're doing is living a lie to me. I think this has everything to do with your insecurities and you only doing all these things to other people won't judge you. So they won't judge you for having kids. So they won't judge you for not being mad. So they won't judge you for not being insecure relationship. That's all it is is a show. And let me tell you, lies do eventually catch up to you. But you know what, it ain't for me to judge. It's your life, live it however way you want to live it. I Know a Man personally who had a vasectomy and don't want anymore kids. And trust me. He doesn't have any more children. I dealt with men that claiming they don't want kids and they are actually serious about it. So what the heck are you talkin about and what smoke are you smoking? This is not normal.

[Dooby7584]

What are you talking about there's no fear, no insecurities. I decided I did not want children at a very young age. There was no fear there I just had professional goals I wanted to achieve. I did not want to risk having children and having to devote resources to those children when I do not want to be a father. My wife is in a professional career as well and has her doctorates in nursing. She decided she didn't want children at a young age as well.

Neither of us want to adopt so I guess you don't have to worry about that. I only said at age 14 if I decided I wanted kids later I would adopt.

I think you are not okay with the child free by choice so we will have to leave it at that. However, the birth rate in the US has been falling for a long time. Part of that is people like my wife and I who wanted to pursue professional careers and not invest in children.

For the record never done drugs once in my life (including marijuana) and also don't drink alcohol or caffeine. Would not be able to be in the military if I did.

[btbc92]

To be honest I don't even know why you would even all my comments section in the first place. Everything that you're saying proves that there's something very much wrong with you. And everything that you want to stay cuz I know how was not this house not that you proven it to be more. Having children have everything to do with your sexual choices. If you're having sex outside of marriage, that's a personal choice. You pretty much signed up to Rick having children. Birth control ain't going to save you buddy. Did nothing wrong with pursuing a professional career. I'm a virgin, never bothered with anybody. Stop making excuses. You can do whatever it is that you want. What's up dragon everybody else down with your nonsense I have nothing to do with anybody else. And first of all you do have fears. Having a professional goal has nothing to do with that. You can still up in your professional gold if you know how to manage it properly. Which it shows that you more likely do not. When I'm not okay with is the selfishness. Not being Chance free by choice. I'm child-free. I'm a virgin. What obligation do I have to have a child? Because I'm not legally married, and I am not having sex. So I don't know what mess are you talkin about. Sounds like to me you was not properly taught sex education.

[Dooby7584]

I've been married for over ten years and yes I had sex with multiple women before I got married. Not one of those encounters resulted in a pregnancy and I ensured that by taking birth control into my hands by getting a vasectomy. Yes I used protection as well because a vasectomy does not protect against potential STDs. However, until they invent a birth control option for men, the best birth control a man can use is a vasectomy. I view my choice as selfless because I did not bring any children into the world that were unplanned. It allows my wife and I to enjoy life. Before the pandemic we would take multiple vacations a year to places like Costa Rica, Greece etc... Which is something we could not do if we had children together or from a prior relationship. So not sure what excuses you are talking about. What does it matter at any rate?

If people want to have children that's fine. I did not once say no one should have children. The reason I shared my experience is because it is perfectly okay if people decide not to have children. The individual has every right to decide what is right for them. The original posters husband decided he did not want children after all. Now what he did do wrong was he took it upon himself to ensure he did not without considering his wife's feelings. Now he has to live with the ramifications of that decision which seems like the woman in the original post is going to file for divorce. I did not say his decision did not come without consequence.

[Dooby7584]

What I am challenging is the advice you gave to file for divorce and assign blame. While yes it is the husband's fault for the dissolution of this marriage. Pursuing a divorce that is not amicable by assigning blame or guilt in a legal way does not serve her. Her best course of action is to leave as soon as she is feasiblely able to and if there are assets or debts they need to divide then to divide them and move on. Both parties should seek legal help to make sure they are doing it the right way, however seeking an at fault divorce would not be in her best interests unless her whole purpose was to seek revenge; which ultimately would only serve the divorce lawyer. What is done is done she can only decide how she moves on with her future.

Regardless of fault if she decided not having children is a decision she can't live with. She should divorce but keeping the dissolution as amicable as possible would be in her best interests. At the end of the day marriage is fundamentally a business contract between two people. Yes love and emotion is a player but seeing as many divorces as I have from supervisors, peers, subordinates from all walks of life in the military, the more emotion and negative feelings involved, the more devastating the divorce was later on. While divorce is not a great outcome for anyone both her and her husband could would be better to separate amicably instead of holding onto hate.

[btbc92]

If you want to use your sexual sin as an excuse to hide behind your cowardice you go do that. As I already told you before leave people like myself who were staying enough not to get involved with people like yourself out of it. Its wrong. Period. You're not challenging it. You just biased because you know deep down you're in big trouble. And you know the real reason why you're doing what.

[btbc92]

Don't get married if you are not prepared to tell the truth. Period. That's what I said. You do what you want but it's your wife that chose to settle I wouldn't settle for someone like yourself. Period.

[btbc92]

Children should not have to stop you from living your life. You just choose that because you want to be sober. There's nothing wrong with spending time with each other. But it's clear that what you're saying is out of pure selfishness. So stop while you are ahead you're not convincing me otherwise. And first of all it is natural for you to procreate and have children. You not wanting to get someone pregnant and you chilling that be on birth control and having a vasectomy is proof that you cannot be responsible at all. You are not helping your case you're proven exactly why I am glad I'm a virgin and stayed single. Men like you are insane. Its again, pure selfishness. This has nothing to do with children or shaming you for wanting Beach House free. Like I told you before I am Child free. I am free to be able to do exactly what you're doing by not getting involved with men like yourself. The moment you chose to have sex, it is very much planned to have children. That's why I said a lot of you should have stayed in school and learn sex education because a lot of you been taught wrong about. You can very much do those things if you know how to budget and actually know how to properly handle your finances. If you actually think that then it shows where the problem is. Children should not be blamed because you don't know how to handle your financial obligations.

[btbc92]

I don't blame people to not have children. What I blame is what you choose to do as a result of not having children. And that's sexual sin. Sexual sin is a problem. Not you having children. But that you choose not to have children because you would have continued in your sins. He didn't care about his wife at all because again he figured it's his body is his decision. It's not his body anymore by himself. Once you are married your body belongs to your wife and your wife body belongs to you. That's how it is. You don't see it like that that's on you. That's why you had sex with multiple women but if you both happy with that then that's between you and her. I have nothing to do with me so keep me out of your marriage.

I would never blame children for something so trivial of what you're saying. Everything cost money to stop using children as an excuse. You just see children as a financial burden and as a sexual burning to yourself. Doesn't sound like a marriage I would be interested in getting involved in. Trust me when I say. God didn't want you to have kids you would not have kids regardless if you was potent. God is in control and a lot of people have forgotten about that. Just because you go to fix stuff to me if he wanted your way to get pregnant trust me she would get pregnant. Birth control cannot stop God.

[btbc92]

Marriage is not a fundamental business contract between two people. That's the case then why you even married? Purely business? Again you don't know anything about why you're peers, subordinates, supervisors Etc go through divorce that you talkin about parrot but I know of a marriage speaker and author who deals with military couples all the time and they know. It's the same thing like I told you. Because you made those decisions and then you want to know why you're in that position. If you like using each other for benefits and that makes you happy, then that's the only thing that's keeping your marriage together. Not everybody wants the kind of marriage you have. You not having children is not the problem. Your reasons behind it, is.

[btbc92]

She has every right in that regard to get a divorce. If he didn't want a divorce, he should have never got that vasectomy. They had an agreement to see how things were going and that's how they will want one or two kids. He broke that agreement. He broke that Covenant of that agreement. It is not something that can be just as easily healed and fits by telling her the basic way to get over it. That is not how marriage works. When you join together you become as one. If you're not thinking as one then you're not equally yoked. She made it very clear that is devastating and she cannot find herself being married to him.

[Dooby7584]

Marriage is absolutely fundamentally a business transaction. When you get married you are joining your assets together unless you are getting a prenuptial agreement or postnuptial agreement most states just split you 50/50 and other states make everything community property.

I did not say she did not have a right to a divorce. I said she would be better served by not holding onto hate and trying to separate as amicable as possible. You're right if he did not want to divorce he should have not gotten the vasectomy. I did state that he had to accept the consequences of his actions. You are also correct I did not get divorced first hand and have no first hand experience. However wisdom comes with observation. The most successful people immediately post divorce are the ones who kept things Amicable is what I have observed. Those that did not and who continually fight over material things end up losing more.

The most successful bad situation divorce I observed was a guy who had his wife cheat on him while he was deployed and run up all his credit cards. She was not amicable in the divorce, so he ceased communication with her and took on the majority of the debt so the divorce would finalize quicker. He then declared bankruptcy to wipe the slate clean. Now he is doing great repaired his credit and moved on. It did not serve him to hold onto hate and make his wife pay her share of the debt. He was divorced and on his way to financial recovery within 6 months.

Again not first hand experience but from what I have been able to observe trying to keep things Amicable is typically met with more post divorce recovery. Those that fought and did not typically had a longer road to recovery.

[btbc92]

I can see for somebody who claims to have more experience than I do you know nothing about marriage. Let alone sex and everything else. You know nothing about the very things you participate in. Marriage is only a business transaction if you choose to make it a business transaction. I know that when you am are you enjoying your assets but that have nothing to do with what is between me and my husband if I am with that person. I know what it takes to have a marriage but I do not make something like that on account of worldly ways I do it the way how God had commanded to be. She is not holding hatred she is hurt. Hurt have nothing to do with hatred. If you truly hated him forget about it would have been way worse than what you're talkin about and that's not the case. She is devastated because she's hurt. She hurts because she walks, and she didn't loves you would not complain about it. For somebody who's been married for over 10 years you sound like you know nothing about women also. No wisdom comes from the Lord. It comes from God. It doesn't come with observation. You choose to observe. When you observe you gain knowledge. But there is a fine line between knowledge and wisdom.

Being a miscible is one thing, but knowing what is expected of you to have a marriage into a hold it is another. Marriage is like a blank slate is however way you choose to make it. You can have loved or you can have hey, you can have good or you can have hell. It is what you and that person choose to make it. And if you choose to make it that way then you are the one that has to live in deal with it. Because once you're married you cannot just get a divorce.

[btbc92]

So no. It is not those who fight over material things that lose out more. It is those who married for the wrong reasons who end up divorcing the way they do beside the decisions you chose to make which is having premarital sex outside of marriage Eric the moment you done that you made marriages with all those women. And you divorce them every single time you choose to have your penis in another. That is marriage. Sex is a marriage and marriage is all about sex. You married and divorced many times you committed adultery. But according to you were with people you don't consider it as that and there for you cause much harm two others who now have to be scared in their soul every single time they have sex with you. You have no ideas of everything that you have done in your past that has influence your choices for the future and your present day. It is very much serious on what choices you choose to make impacts your future as well as your Offspring and the destiny that they must live because of the choices between you and these women.

[btbc92]

In the case of the person who had his wife cheat on him. You don't know the reason why she cheated. He could have done the same thing as you and have premarital sex with her and knowing what type of person is he is so therefore it was eventually going to lead to that in the first place. There is nothing that you can do for an admicable that kind of situation. Again. That is his choice. He married a con woman he did, you don't know what went on in that marriage that cause that kind of situation. I'm not saying it's all his fault, I'm not saying it's all her fault. You don't know the reason but you are most certainly making it to be something else entirely different with shows you know nothing about marriage and yet you've been in it for over a decade. This is one of the very reasons why you do not recklessly have sex let alone get married to just anyone and you don't have logical reasons too. What you witnessed with that man is a key reason why you don't just do anything and you don't know what the heck you're doing. The fact that he had to declare bankruptcy in order for him to try to do something is again have to do with the financial obligations that comes with choosing to get married. It has nothing to do with the fact that it's a business situation.

[btbc92]

What you do not understand at your age is this. There is always a consequence to getting married and getting a divorce. When you get married you may not be able to do the things you used to do when you're single. But when you get a divorce it doesn't mean that Things become easier in your life. When you choose a life partner, they are meant to be with you for life. You any kind of situation. It's a choice to hate as a choice to love. But the moment you made those vows you are there for life into death do you apart. The only legal reason why you get a divorce is exactly what that man went through and that is adultery. But in a situation that the person went through with her husband sadly is not something that she can just easily recover from. Some may get through it, she may not. Only she knows herself and we cannot tell her what you can and cannot do. Just like I cannot tell you what you can and cannot do I don't know you. Just like you can't tell me what I can and cannot do you don't know me. Only God and only Jesus truly know me. My family and my friends truly know me. But one thing I do know for sure if I know I can handle something I'm not pretend like I can when I know I can't.

[btbc92]

All the more reason why you better not do anything that's going to disrupt the peace in your marriage let alone cause you to lose it. That should be a key sign for you not so much of you being admissible with your spouse. But not to do anything that's going to cause transgressions against the other. Even the Bible speaks about these things. Don't do anything to to purposely hurt the other. Which is why you communicate. If you know you're not compatible then you go with people who you are compatible with. You have a wife that pretty much tolerate any in single thing that you do. Well I may not consider that necessarily a marriage, one thing I will say for sure, don't do anything to bleep it up. Well you're going to have a really hard time navigating this world because of the decisions that you made. Is easy for you to say that because you married very young. You're around my age, so remember this. You are 28 years old, you still got many more years to go.

[Dooby7584]

Well for one I'm not Christian. So arguing from a spiritual standpoint is not going to serve either of us.

You are right she is hurt. However your advice was immediately to cast blame. My advice is to take a step back and realize if not having kids is a deal breaker, then to proceed with divorce as amicably as possible and move on with thier lives.

[btbc92]

You still have not getting it yet. It doesn't matter if you're Christian or not. Marriage is spiritual and physical. Until you understand the spiritual you are not understand the physical laws that in campuses you're being because you are still a physical and a spiritual being. No my advice is not to cast blame. My advice is the other do what is expected of you in a marriage or you don't have a marriage. At all. It is still very much a deal-breaker or else you wouldn't have gotten married if it wasn't. Wake Up! And Grow Up. You may be married but you still have the mentality of a child. This is not something that you can just again admittedly just passed on. It is still going to be bitterness and hurt. That doesn't mean you got to take revenge or violence against the other that's what most people do. The problem has to do with the fact that you transgress against the person and now the person has to live with the fact that they sacrifice all those months and years let alone having sex with a person who did not desire the same thing. Which is the key reason why I said it is fraud. You want to talk about a business transaction so much and this is where it becomes business. When you bring sex and everything else in the middle of it and now the person cannot have the future that they want because somebody choose to mess it up for you. Selfishness will not help a marriage Stay Together.

[btbc92]

You cannot just move on from that. My friend who got divorced from her ex-husband of nearly two to three years can simply tell you that she still having a hard time coping with it. That's how much it hurts. How much you sacrificed. How much you destroy someone else's drink. But dream is to be married, to be a young wife, to have a family of her own. And you have a person who lies and say they want the same thing only to tell you after all is said and done how a child make everything feel better. Not with abuse, not with lies. Not with you not doing what you have to do as a man. A woman does not deserve to suffer. Amanda's not deserve to suffer just because you're selfish.

[btbc92]

A man*

[btbc92]

You think my friend wanted to get divorced? No! Which is why when she was going through it she was beating herself up nearly every single day. And who is one of the few people that she was able to call and truly speak with this to? Me. Even to this day she still loves him. But she cannot be with him. And while there was things that she herself had to learn some and I told her this myself that goes to show you how much a lot of do that claim to know so much more than me really don't know what is why I stayed out of it. I told her the same thing. You're still responsible for the things you know and don't know. But he also has had a decision to make. The moment you get married you do what you expect with you no questions ask or else you're going to have problems.

[btbc92]

How much you destroy somebody else's dream*

[Dooby7584]

I did not say that she deserved to suffer either. Bad things happen. The only thing we can do is choose how we proceed with handling it. If she proceeds with a negative Outlook or positive outlook all depends on her.

[btbc92]

Let me tell you something. Bad things DON'T just happen. It is CHOICE. And if I was married and my husband decided to do such a thing it is OVER. Am I clear? I will not tolerate or settle for that. Especially after I spent my whole life a virgin and that is wasted over that. That is a slap in the face. Don't know what world you live in, but its a pretty twisted one.

[btbc92]

A positive or negative outlook has nothing to do with it when you truly love a person. It is clear your marriage is once again not of love, but convenience. There is nothing positive in backstabbing a person. God called her to greatness and not for her blessings to be robbed. As I said, I don't know screwed up your head to the point you decided to get that done. But your not all what you crack up to be. Like I said, I know somebody personally who got that done. They know they have nobody else to answer to but who they are with and to God. He is now legally married to a woman who doesn't have a problem with it. But his fears is again his. That is something that is between him, his wife and God, and again his life. You made your decisions recklessly as I said before. Not because you don't regret not having kids, but that you have given still hours later NO LOGICAL AND RATIONAL REASON WHY. You just keep spewing how basically its fine, it's not to start a war over when there is. Why do you think I never dated and is still a virgin? I have logical reasons. You don't see me expecting to tie up my tubes. I know what sex and marriage are and what it means to do so. I am not looking to have sex or get married. Do you see me hopping from man to man? No. Do you see me on birth control other than maybe a medical concern? No. I am not sexually active. Do you see me watching porn or masturbation all because of "lack of control"? No. Do you see me whining how I am still a virgin, etc? NO! Because I understand, if that is what I desperately want, FIND A MAN TO GET MARRIED TO, GET MARRIED, THEN HAVE SEX. Not make excuses, bringing generational curses, and screwing up MY KIDS. I have rational reasons not to have kids. You don't see me going through extremes making sure I don't have one.

[btbc92]

So which is it? Dad, was a drunkard something? Did mom sleep around? Somebody thought you were ugly? Grew up poor? What is it? I can understand as I said, a genetic disease that can be passed down as I have running on my mom's side of the family that I don't want to pass down, or even if you were at risk of cancer and it was medically suggested you have something done. But scared because you don't want kids? You got to be kidding me. Something scared you worse than a little girl in a horror house to NOT want to be a father. You are very much armament in doing so to desperately have the balls cut and to basically demand the girls be on birth control and a condom. Something isn't right. It's your personal business, but when you want to have this argument, you damn right I want to know the truth and I am not even married to you or dating you.

[Dooby7584]

My only reasoning is because I do not want kids. I have a great relationship with my nieces and nephews. I decided that I did not want to have children. I don't know why that is a hard concept for you to wrap your head around. I knew I would have what you call premarital sex and I took responsibility by getting a vasectomy to prevent any unplanned pregnancies.

As for the situation I understand it is hurtful. I understand she was hurt by his actions. But I still stand by the fact this happened to her and she can choose how she comes out of it. Negatively or positively.

[Dooby7584]

As for your assertions I had a very loving mother and father and I'm very grateful to have had them. To give you a reason thinking about it more I guess an early influence in my life was I decided at about age 5 I wanted a career in the military. While many people have successful family life's in the military I decided at an early age that I did not want to put a child through constantly deploying and coming and going. I have deployed over 10 times in my career. That would have been a difficult situation for any child. However i deploy to go at any opportunity. Other people like my best friend from high school who joined with me has three kids and deployed only three times in nearly 18 years of service for him. (we joined the same time but he shipped out earlier than me). There's a difference in how we approach life but no abuse, neglect, hardship that led me to that decision like you insinuated.

[Dooby7584]

Also I would like to add while I did wear condoms before I was married I don't anymore and my wife has enjoyed not having to be on birth control for the duration of our marriage. She has a very strong hormonal reaction to the pill and to iuds and is very thankful she doesn't have to have those now.

[btbc92]

Again after this entire time you are still missing the entire point. You still prove the fact that what you chose to do was not necessarily a rational decision. It's an understandable decision. But a vasectomy is not an answer. And again is less to do with how she chose to come out of it. It's decisions again you got to deal with for the rest of your life. And she's still struggling with that at the end of the day. She is not you, she is not me and you are not her. What makes it even worse you are not a woman you are a man. Oh man does not go through the same issues that woman has to live with. Again it's understandable you don't want to put your child through that. But again, you made sexual decisions that can race other people to get him pregnant. You say you didn't want to risk all that stuff again, you both made those decisions. If you before okay with those decisions that's why you have the life you have. If you say you happy again that's good on you and good for her. But that is not for women like me or women like my friend. We desire something Godly. You decide to do what you want. But at the end of the day it is still wrong how you chose to go about it. And this is not a situation that should be encouraged. And no you don't understand that she was hurt because again you already made those choices. When she chose to get married, she chose to get married for life she didn't choose to get mad to be involved with a man who did something like that. What that does that undermines the person and undermines the person's choices to be able to have the kind of future they truly desire. Thank God God is in control and he knows how to take over the situation. Again, it would have been better if you both just got married to the people you decide to have sex with legally. You wouldn't need to be havin condoms or pills or anything else had you to just done that. But you both got together now and you with each other now.

[Dooby7584]

Furthermore, my definition of success does not involve children nor does my wife's. Everyone can define success differently. Your definition of success seems to involve having kids eventually. Not everyone has to desire a traditional family. Also people's definition of success can be ever changing. The original posters husband seems to have changed his definition of success and while that did probably include staying married it did not include having children.

If before he got married he wanted children but afterwards decided he no longer wanted children that is his choice. While obtaining a vasectomy in secret was definitely underhanded he should have discussed this with his wife for whatever reason he decided to not involve her in that decision and because he did not he's going to suffer the ramifications of that decision which is probably a divorce.

However it was his decision. His definition of success changed.

Granted this was not fair to his wife. However he has to live life by his own definitions and so does she. If her definition of success is becoming a mom I would encourage her to live her truth it just unfortunately can't be with him.

[btbc92]

That's the point that your marriage has pretty much try to teach you and you still don't get it yet. Had you done this right the first time you would not have this. And no I didn't have to insinuate that. I wanted to know the whole truth. What you're telling me is that again you chose to do something Reckless and by you saying you stand by what you said. I still stand by what I said. You did something very Reckless. Very Reckless. But if you're happy with those decisions then you're happy by those decisions. But like I said before. What you choose to do is what you choose to do. But do not expect everybody wants to live with those decisions. That is something that you was forced to live with. That is not something everybody else has to live with when they are not making those decisions. Again that is between you and your wife.

[btbc92]

Wait a minute. Time out. What does the definition of success have anything to do with children? My definition of success is being in the Lord, getting deliveries coming having salvation and being with Jesus and our father our creator who is up in heaven. Success have nothing to do with getting married or children to me. It's about doing the calling and it will that is placed on your life that God has called for you to do and you make it out alive and you make it out to the end all becoming all your trials and tribulations that success to me. If I thought marriage and children was except I would have done what you would have done a long time ago and messed myself up. I chose to do what I had to do because I refuse to make a mistake that I have to live with. I would not making nearly Thirty if that was the case. I learned from my own parents mistakes.

You seem to have still not paying attention. It has zero to do with having a traditional family. If you did not want to have a traditional family you should not be married. You chose to have sex so therefore you created marriages with women you are not married to. Now you are legally married to somebody who you had for over a decade, and now the thing that you could have had years ago with the people that you claim that you love. If you even love them at all you wouldn't even be in this fix. What about those women who you had. What about those girls that you had? What future are they going to have because they chose to have sex with you? This is not what you understand. You don't understand it because you are not a woman. A man does not have the same sexual consequences of woman have.

[btbc92]

When you are married you can't do that. Once you're married that's it. You can't go around playing switch a roo. This is wrong and its displeasing to God when you choose to come into a relationship under false pretenses. If you are not certain about the thing that you truly want in life you stay out of it. That is the point of what I told you about my personal choices as a young woman. I stay out of it. My children deserve a life deserve a future and a dessert out of habit or I cannot have children at all. Which is why I did not make the decision that you made what is reckless to begin with. If you was 12 of these things better you will not have to have those problems. But you put my own problems on yourself you won't promise to the women in your life. You broke a promise to your family. And you brought problems to your future. So I know the real reason why you don't want kids because of generational curses that you heaped up alone with your wife now you have to deal with the consequences. Because the same sin that you brought upon your life they and upon upon your children. If the number one reason why my late mother before she died of cancer told me not to have sex before marriage because he did not want me to make the same mistake she made. At least she told me the truth. And my late mother was a good woman who just wanted to be loved. You decided to take your life for granted. You're the one that screwed myself up and you spoil them other woman's life who barely even know what the hell they're doing because you were young. That's foolishness. Not just reckless, but foolish. Is one of the top reasons why I did not date men liked you for a reason. Because you do these things and then when this consequences to be paid you don't want to live and pay up with those consequences.

[btbc92]

You think about these things when you're very young. You thought about these things when he was very young but you still decided to play the field so now guess what you have to live with it. If you was my son that's exactly what I would have told you. If you was my little brother that's exactly what I would have told you. Even if you was older than me. I would have told you the same thing if you lack the knowledge. But it's up to you to choose to ignore it. You just giving me another good reason why I would never be involved with a man on that level ever. Not about living your truth. It's about doing what is right. And if you have no business in it you shouldn't be in it.

I weep in my own silence but people like you because you are truly blind. And you don't know when you have a good thing until it is stripped from you. And then you want to make an excuse about what you could have should have done when you had opportunities to fix it and you don't want to fix it. When a Woman Loves You she wants the best for you. When a Man Loves a Woman he wants the best for her. They don't play cowardice. Cowardice is of the devil, those are not the attributes of God. Men like you run from your problems and then it's women like me and it has to sit back and pick up the pieces left. Do you want to know why I ain't married or been involved with any man. I rather die alone. At least I have my dignity.

[btbc92]

Again if that was the case I would have been married long ago. I would have children long ago. I care about doing the right thing by God. I care about securing myself to do what I got to do and God. I'm not worried about children or being involved. But what does the stress me is when others want me to and yeah I am counting men like yourself who always make excuses who expect me to do something when there's no guarantee! Can you have a wife over decades but you can make that same guarantee for the women that truly wanted you in their lives? That's fraud. That's wrong. That is so immoral. I truly weep for your people and I pray you seek repentance and deliverance. I have my own to deal with but I do not understand how can you people live with nothing. How can you live with that? How can you show me live and breathe and tell yourself those lies every single day? I wouldn't be able to live with myself. What you talkin about don't sound like life. It sounds like death. If you're in a marriage, or relationship with there's no life in it. Then it's dead.

[btbc92]

You talk about positive and negative is what you choose to do with it and handle it but you are a hypocrite. That is hypocrisy. If your children ever end up unhappy and I'm telling you this as somebody who grew up with domestic abuse and he was abused by her father practically all her life. And still deals with it. I don't was so much disappointment growing up. For one thing that hurt me the most is feeling unloved even if you've been living with that same person 24 hours a day 365 days out of the year. Is when you feel unvalidated. When your feelings aren't met with kindness. Will you feel punished because that person feels punished. When that person was control because they feel like they lifes are out of control. When they treat you low because another person treated them low. Your children would have loved you regardless if you was there or not physically hear what matters is that your feelings are true and it what you have for their life is able to secure them, there is understanding, compassion, there is empathy, there's involvement, and you make an effort the best way you can. But you don't know that because you don't have children.

[btbc92]

It's not about having kids as the ultimate goal. It's not about having children as a means of success. It's about sharing a life with a person who's willing to grow, learn with you, and handle things that we call life together. And no matter what happens you have somebody that's going to care for you. It's going to cherish you, to beat up a text her, somebody who you don't have to doubt, somebody you can truly depend on. What you give the person is able to Blossom and give you more in abundance. It's the same with planting trees and flowers. If you don't given nutrients, if you don't give it water, if you don't plant in good soil, if it doesn't have Sun, how can you expect it to grow? How can yiu expect to grow if you don't learn anything? Life is a process. And you cannot expect to cheat life because you don't want things to be hard? Life isn't easy. And all you're saying is that you're seeking the easy way out. When you fine and you have the right person in your life, then you won't have to worry about those things because everything will fall in his place and you have somebody who you can truly trust. You got to be prepared to overcome these things together. That's what it means to truly have a life partner. When a woman truly loves you and desire these things with you she wants to share that with you. That's what one of my friends truly desires everything that I just told you. She wants to share that with one person and that one person she wants that to be with her husband. She wants to have a future we she can grow and be happy and be happy with who she's with and share that same happiness with her children and worship and serve the Lord. That's what it means to have children and have a family and to be truly married.

[btbc92]

If you're not able to have children that's okay. What matters is that you able to serve the Lord with your choices. And what you're choosing to do is to not to serve the Lord with your body or your choices. You're not honoring God with your body when you doing these things in vain. This is how the voice end up keeping up because if you understood this you would not have problem. Yes you may go through your up and down, you may deal with life's hardships, but you still able to overcome together. The word of God says this. Being single is hard for being married is harder. That is just part of this life. It is hard. Marriage is not for the weak. It is for the strong. But in your weakness because of your sinful nature and your Fallen state, you able to overcome these things together. That's what it truly means to actually walk side-by-side with your partner.. But not everybody you married to is actually your partner.

[Dooby7584]

Okay again not Christian so I don't care about the Christian influence.

Secondly I'm in a happy marriage. I'm just deployed and bored at the moment on my day off. Can only work out so many times in one day. My wife is truly my partner and when I'm home we do everything together. She is ultimately my best friend. When I'm home we travel and go hiking and have a great time.

Honestly I think more men should get vasectomies. It would take more pressure off women to be the sole bearers of responsibility for birth control.

I am truly sorry you were abused as a child or saw your mother be abused. I'm not dictating how you or this young lady should feel. I am just speaking from a logical point of view with no emotions behind it. I hope you are in a good place now and not still in that situation. I understand that she would feel hurt and betrayed in this situation. However acting out in anger would not serve anyone.

My advice is strictly from a logical perspective.

Resiliency,
That's what the Air Force teaches

To be resilient you have to invest in yourself.

Physical wellness
Mental wellness
Emotional wellness
Social wellness
And yes even spiritual wellness.

So if I had any type of religion I guess you would call me a follower of militarism. Those are how my viewpoints were shaped as an adult and teenager.

Do what it takes to make yourself whole.

[Dooby7584]

While I don't believe in what I view as the imaginary concepts of religion I do understand it has a power on people who need it. If it works for you awesome and anyone that feels the need to seek out religion I would encourage them to do so.

However, I would also advise to seek out legal counsel, personal therapy, and any other resources that are available.

In this situation she would have to deal with the death of this relationship and she would probably go through several of the five stages of grief.

However I would also advise not acting out in anger. It's okay to be angry but not okay to act out on it.

What you were originally suggesting was to seek out damages and in the States that's just not the way to go unless there are huge assets in play. While what happened was messed up 99 times out of 100 I guarantee you my judge is going to dismiss this for irreconcilable differences. Pursuing every other avenue is just wasting money and time.

[Dooby7584]

*the judge

[btbc92]

I truly pray you see God. I truly pray you wake up from your delusion you want to call logical thinking. You focus too much of religion you don't even see the things that goes on around you. Don't undermine me. If any anger is being brought up is what you choose to do by doing the very thing I said. Choosing to a validated person. I don't speak religion. I seek the one true Living God and I have God with me who just gave me Comfort right now. And I have my resources. And that is the creator who created me and who created all living things. The hell is wrong with you to tell more meant to give vasectomies! The heck are you thinking? Instead of telling me to go get professional help. You don't understand what you're saying requires for you to get professional help. And this is coming from somebody who was told to get into counseling and psychology. Trust me I would have written you up to see a psychotherapist. All the more reason why I am so glad I would not get myself involved with a man of the military. Lot of messed up things just to protect their own people even when things are wrong. No she has God. And by the grace of God she has somebody that truly loves her and isn't going to treat her the same way her ex-husband did. So I don't know what the heck are you talkin about Buddy. She didn't have to go through the stages of grief. She Grieves. Because God promised for her, God promise for him. And he chose not to do what he needed to do and God promises. That's disobedience. No, when are men like yourself I'm going to do what you say you're going to do and start doing what you need to do? You happily married again that's between you and your wife. Please stop dragging your married and I will not say this again like a broken record. Please stop dragging your marriage into other people's lives simply because you chose to make a decision you made? I don't expect other people to be like me please stop expecting other people to be like you.

[btbc92]

And no. Your religion it has nothing to do with the military. It has everything to do with the fact that I can tell just by your statement alone you were rebellious child in your youth that desired action. That's the top main reason why you chose to get sexually active. I can really see what kind of person you were growing up and pretty much clicks. Somebody who probably couldn't sit down when told.

[Dooby7584]

I'm not expecting other people to be like me. Again the one true living God that just says religion to me also i'm not trying to be validated especially by you. I'm just showing that there's another option than the one you presented. That my friend is all.

[btbc92]

Don't confuse children of God with religious people. Anybody can go to church and Proclaim and profess they are of God, that doesn't mean that they are. There are plenty of Christians that have done exactly what you have done and similarly. Do not confuse all of us or lump us all the same. This is just flat-out common sense. There are plenty of non-religious people who believe in the things of God simply because they was two of these traditional ways of living. And they work for a reason. And it said a lot that either you never had much of an education, or know very little about biology. Women have a natural desire to have children and to be with a person they want to be with. If they don't want kids that have to be a personal choice. But the biological desire to have them is still there unless they don't simply have them. Everything you're saying sounds all good and gravy but like I said before you're being a hypocrite. If you don't have a healthy lifestyle, if you are not with healthy people, if you're not doing the right thing then everything you want a list of the top five it all goes down the drain. Which is why I am not around people who did not equally share the same values as I do. And trust me. Plenty of the people in my life are not Christian or so called religious.

[btbc92]

Yeah because you've been brainwashed and been force-fed that it's religion when it's not. No the auction is is getting deliverance and having my life the way it needs to be and what God is already doing that in my life. Religion did not do that for me. Going to church did not do that for me and I can tell you that cuz I've been out of church since I was 8 years old. On and off throughout my young adult years. And I haven't been in church in two years since I started college. So I honestly do not know what in the world are you talkin about other than the fact that you are a rolling man who believes in worldly things and do things Connelly because you are carnal minded man. Resilience begin understanding who you are in Christ first. Who you are and God first. For the kingdom of God has to be within you. You can go to church and read the Bible all your life but if you don't have God in you then you're doing the things you have in vain. That includes Christians and non-christians, believe it or not believe it's, spiritual, religious, or not. If you are a human being without God in your life and you are nothing as a person. Because if you had the love of God in you you would understand these things. But because of your ignorance, you don't understand the things that you do. Religion doesn't have to teach you that. It is due to conviction of the spirit of the Lord but since you have no desire to be inviting God in your life, you are left to go through these things in your life on your own because you don't want to go do the things by yourself is why you have a wife. But if you can't even leave her, how can you expect to lead yourself? It is natural order in this world. You've been so brainwashed to think you think that's why so many of you can't go on in life without another person physically there. One quote that I always loved my late mother had said. Go to church one day, sin every other day?

[btbc92]

My mother didn't wait to have sex before marriage. How do you think I was born? I was born out of wedlock. Or should I say I was conceived out of wedlock. My mom only had two partners. My dad have 40-plus women. More than you can ever imagine. So what are you talkin about? He's been married to my mother to the day she died. My upbringing and my home life is anything but Christian. You got two warring kingdoms and the same home, one that is Christian and one that is not, but believes in God. But he believes he's serving God while he's serving other gods. Which is why he's in an occult. It doesn't matter if you're Christian, atheist or not. When you have a true desire to know God, the true Living God and not what religion tries to tell you your whole life begins to change when you have a true encounter. You can't talk about spiritual life but then you don't want to get your spiritual life in order with God and in Christ. You can't serve yourself because you're still serving the devil. God allow you to go through these things in your life for his reasons but God is still God. He still in control over your life. But if you choose to fight with God then you left on your own. You say you grew up in a good family, and I believe it's very possible, yet you choose to be rebellious and do the opposite? No that is just personal choice. And you call yourself a lot of heartache just by doing those things. Again, you are the man of the world. So it is in your nature to do that like is that the world.

[btbc92]

And yes you are respecting other people to be like you. Which is why you say what you say. You chose to get a vasectomy. Stop telling all the men to get a vasectomy. That's why a lot of them can't appreciate and love the women in their life that they got now. And think the solution is for women to be on birth control.

[Dooby7584]

So during this conversation, you insinuated that I was abused, poor, or neglected. You also made assumptions about my marriage and family life. Now if we bring God into this how was this godly? You call me a hypocrite but look in the mirror. What's the saying those without sin cast the first stone? I have not made one disparaging remark about you or your life. So any offense taken was with my message which was simply to not act out in anger and find a way to separate amicably.

Anyways I am done with this conversation. I do wish the best for you, the original poster and her husband.

[btbc92]

Uh, no I didn't. Talk about not paying attention and actually knowing how to listen. I never had to insinuate that you was poor, abuse Etc. All I asked is what was so bad that pretty much scared you do basically crap in your pants that you don't want kids. And now you're telling me something that I already had figured it out already. I know you choose to be very biased. You better understand what that scripture means about he without sin cast the first stone. I understand my hypocrisy and I ask God for help on that end. But I'm not going to pretend like this is not a problem. You don't like the fact that the thing that was told to you that's why you keep arguing with me for this entire time because you don't want to feel wrong. I already made it very clear to you before and I told you this more than 45 times. I don't care what it is that you do in your marriage that is your life that is between you and your wife. What point in my entire conversation with you did you not understand that meant for you to move on? When I told you I don't know why you kept commenting on my post, you kept going. You better look at yourself. You wanted a challenge because again is based out of your personal problems and now you're trying to make me feel bad based on something again you made a decision to do. It has nothing to do with you making an disparaging remark against me. But everything that you want to do and undermined their relationships and marriages of other people just because you and your wife is but the minority. The mama you want to talk about again you're not Christian you already made it a personal thing.

[btbc92]

The fact that I even have to go that far to drag the truth out of you says a lot right there because you would have never told me the truth otherwise. I said all of that purposely to see what your answer was going to be. You cleaned it since I had time how I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong. Yeah I gave you the evidence without me having to have you fight for it. It took you more than 20 post in order for you to finally tell me the truth. If you would have just told me the truth from the beginning, this conversation would have been over yesterday. So no. For a post that's been over a year old, you're the one that decided to drag this out this long close to 4:30 in the morning. Precious hours I could be having did you other things and having peace for myself instead of constantly arguing back and forth with your nonsense. Where is your respect? No I already had said prior something had to have for you to happen no to make that decision. Clearly you proven to me, that nothing truly warranted for you to get a vasectomy while you are going to me what a woman should and shouldn't do if somebody chose to get a vasectomy and that is somebody they are married to. Get your facts straight number one, get your head checked that's number two. And technically before you want to say anything, you did. The moment you start talking about how my definition of success involved having kids eventually, you already assumed that about me. Everything that I put on the table you choose to Buck up against it because again it goes against what you naturally want to do. So you very much did. I have every right to express the hurt, anger, and the sorrow of your assumptions simply because again of the choices you chose to make.

[Dooby7584]

Figured I would give it another look. On a military deployment and bored.

Your are right my opinion is biased. It comes from a male perspective, a children free perspective. However your opinion is biased as well. It comes from a female perspective and a Christian perspective. So I don't understand why you bring that up. That is what this forum type q & a is about for people to get other perspectives. I'm not saying you should not share your own. However I'll share my own whenever I feel like it as well.

As for it taking 20+ posts to talk to me about my vasectomy. You pulled that from a completely different post I had made. The topic in this post was marriage fraud. So yes I was trying to not talk about the vasectomy as it was not the focus. You did make it the focus because men getting a vasectomy at a young age seems to offend you.

I am currently on deployment and had a day off and a buddy was showing me the article. So with boredom I decided to make an account to put my two cents in.

As for arguing with me till 4:30 am that morning. I did not force you to do that. You chose to stay up and talk with me. So I have no sympathy for you on that account. If talking to me caused you such distress you could have simply chose to not engage me. When I got off here the other day I went for another 5 mile run to finish out my day off before chow and a shower. Total serenity.

[btbc92]

Buddy, I'm done.

[Madison22]

I would suggest marriage counseling before divorce... and personally in my opinion if this is the thing that will end your marriage it's not a very strong marriage in the first place... whether or not you disagree about haveing children or just have a disagreement it shouldn't dictate the survival of your marriage. Even though you're married inevitably it's his body to do what he wishes with.

[Asker]

He made a major life decision without even mentioning it to me... how is that ever ok? I don't think this is something I want to go to counseling for, that's dumb. I just want to be done.

[Madison22]

Yes he did not mention it to you, That was wrong. but I still don't believe that it's grounds for divorce. And just because he did this doesn't mean you could never have children later there are other ways. and if you don't want to go to counseling for it Have you at least sit down and asked him about why he did what he did?

[Asker]

To be honest I don't care why. It's messed up.

[Madison22]

And if you're just wanting the marriage to be over with so easy... as I said it's not a very strong marriage. If it were you would fight to save it, it's not like he cheated on you or something... sure it has a big affect on the relationship but it's nothing you can't get through if you really love each other.

[Madison22]

Sounds like your love for one another isn't really there as it should be with a marriage.

[Asker]

I love him but he hurt me in the worst way possible. He knew how badly I wanted to be a mom.

[Madison22]

Look if you really love him you can work it out or really try to.. And this doesn't mean you could never be a mom... if you both decide later that it's something you want to do then there are ways that you could.

[Madison22]

Whatever you do I wish you the best

[Goodwifie]

That's a really mean awful underhanded thing to do.
To have or not have a children is an unsolvable issue, there is no compromise possible.
He should have been upfront and honest with you.

[JudgmentDay]

WHY DIDN'T YOU PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT HE SAID ABOUT "NOT WANTING ANY KIDS AT ALL"? WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST LEAVE HIM THEN AND DISCUSS THIS WITH HIM, INSTEAD OF BELIEVING OR THINKING THAT HE'D CHANGE HIS MIND LATER OR EVENTUALLY FOR YOU, AND THEN JUST GOT MARRIED TO HIM?

Well I guess it's too late now, if you want to leave him at this point then you should. I guess he wasn't gonna take ANY chances that if the marriage fails and goes to shit, he'd only end up with unwanted baggage and have to provide support for children in a family he's barely or no longer part of. Money is likely a big fucking factor, and he's probably not even making enough that he don't want to risk it. I suppose he rather never take any chances with how things would turn out in the future of his relationship and marriage. Besides, divorce without children isn't nearly as troublesome compared to divorces that involved children. Do what you want or wish to. But you CAN'T make someone give you children and make you pregnant if they don't WANT TO.

[samhradh_leannan]

At the time when they got married, he had agreed to have 1-2 kids. He then later changed his mind.

Maybe read the question first before you start telling people off.

[JudgmentDay]

@samhradh_leannan Just cause he agreed to wait it out and see what happens and keep that option open as she said, he could be just lying to her to whole time and ignore what she had said and only agree to make her believe what she is hearing, that he had agreed when in fact in his own heart and mind, he already knows that he doesn't want any kids. Either way that should have been a red flag, if he hints that he doesn't want and then try to convince her that he agrees to keep the option open, chances are he had been lying about it and feels different about having children and isn't exactly on the same page as she is. Either way she's gonna have to make the choice to either stay or leave at this point. Always find somebody that is absolutely certain and is on the same page as you are, otherwise you'd only waste time, effort, money, and would only become more frustrated with the results. If he had lied the entire time, then I can understand the frustrations, but he already hinted it and

[JudgmentDay]

@samhradh_leannan and then he changed his mind after pretending to agree to keeping the option open.

[samhradh_leannan]

Before they got married, he had agreed on 1-2 kids. Everything else happened AFTER they got married. Yet you're bashing her for choosing to marry him and for not being able to predict the future.

[JudgmentDay]

@samhradh_leannan he still hinted first that he doesn't want kids, and then he just pretended to change his mind

[samhradh_leannan]

Who said he hinted?

[JudgmentDay]

@samhradh_leannan The first two lines in the paragraph said "But about a year after we got married he started saying that he didn't want any kids at all." She should have gone over this stuff with him way before planning the wedding instead of discovering it later. Even though he had agreed that he "only wanted 1-2 kids" at the time prior to marriage, this was obviously false and he was only pretending. Sometimes deception and deceit like this is very hard to tell, either way whatever the case may be at this point, they are gonna have to make a choice to either stay together or start over. It makes me wondered if her husband had saved any of his sperm prior to undergoing the procedure, as typically doctors would allow this in case if they ever change their minds later about children. But if he truly don't want kids and had changed his mind or pretended all along that he wanted kids, then there's not more she can do, just either stay with him or start over and leave him behind.

[samhradh_leannan]

So she was supposed to just magically know that he was lying, or that he was going to change his mind? We don't even know if HE was the one who "only" wanted 1-2 kids. It could have been her, or it could have been both of them. Saying that you only want 1-2 kids is NOT the same as saying that you don't want kids at all. It is, in fact, the total opposite of saying that you don't want kids at all, because you are confirming that you do want 1-2 kids. How you are managing to twist this around and find a way to blame HER for not being able to see into the future is beyond me. The poor woman is going through enough without being blamed for things that are in no way her fault.

[JudgmentDay]

@samhradh_leannan Even if he agreed, he could have been pretending to agree. And it is proven that he had been pretending all along. People change their minds sometimes, but now there's not more to it. You can't make the guy become a father if he don't want to. Depending how long they've been together, since it's only been about a year, they can start over from scratch. I think her husband didn't want to take any chances that if something goes wrong with the marriage and if it ended in a divorce either way, he don't want additional baggage of having to support a family and it puts a lot of strain and pressure on him financially. I always think that divorces that don't involve children aren't nearly as problematic compared to divorces that involves children, easier to start over completely from scratch overall. Besides, I think most people don't want to be with single or divorced parents these days.

[samhradh_leannan]

I'm not arguing with you about what they should do at this point. But blaming her for going through with the wedding and not realizing that he was lying is just plain ridiculous.

[Gonetowardthewind]

Well the good thing about a vasectomy is that is is reversible if you two decide to have kids. Most likely the hospital forced him to save his sperm just in case he changes his mind. I would talk to him about it, but I wouldn't leave him since it seems like the love between you two are still there. Plus it's the same as an abortion argument where the man can't control his girl on getting one or not, and you can't have a say on whether he gets one or not. Seeing that you two are a young couple, he might feel that he isn't ready financially to have kids, which is alright. So talk to him about it and see where it goes.

[Zumber]

Does a man have a right to object to an abortion? Nope, so why does a woman think she can object to a vasectomy? Whether or not it's grounds for divorce, only you can decide that or not. But tell me, because he doesn't want kids, does he love you any less? You need to decide if having kids is more important than your love for your husband. I do think though, it should have been discussed as it affects both of you. But then so does an abortion, which many women think that it is a subject not open for discussion, even with their spouses.

[samhradh_leannan]

In the case of both a vasectomy and an abortion, the ultimate power of choice belongs to the person who is undergoing the procedure. But in a healthy, stable relationship, the couple SHOULD make an effort to discuss the issue beforehand, and in the case of a disagreement, should make an effort to compromise where possible. I would argue that a relationship where one person sneaks off and gets an abortion or a vasectomy without discussing it with their partner is NOT a healthy, stable relationship.

[Zumber]

When one party in a relationship doesn't want children and another does, there's no compromise.

[samhradh_leannan]

No perfect one, no.

[Intraluminal]

@samhradh_leannan

I agree with you completely. The guy lied. He may have been pushed into lying, but he still lied and ultimately made a unilateral decision about something that affects both their lives.

[sawno]

Getting a vasectomy or not wanting kids shouldn't be a reason to break up with him. The fact he was dishonest about it and did it behind your back is what i'd find unacceptable. If my future girlfriend wanted to make sure she could never get kids i'd convince her to think about it for a long long time after all we don't need to rush and can keep using anticonception.

Its very important that your not going to make harsh decisions. I understand your hurt, and that pain is not a good thing to be around when your going to make a decision like this. Give it some time so your mind is more at rest, after that make a rational decision if you want to continue with him.

[Receoso]

Yes, it is grounds for divorce. However, let me add something for you to consider. Are you certain that you are able to become pregnant? If you divorce him, marry another man, and then learn that you are unable to become pregnant, will you have major regret for divorcing him?

[truthbeknown]

He has total right to change his attitude regarding children. This is no different than a woman who agrees to having sex, then mid way through the act she no longer wants it and tells him to stop. At that point, the man has to respect her wishes and must stop. If he doesn't, then he is raping her. So just because he is married to you doesn't mean he has to have kids and be forced to do something he no longer wants to do. To answer your question, yes, you have my permission to file for divorce.

[Asker]

I'm not saying he's not allowed to make that decision for himself. That's fine. But the fact that he made this decision without even telling me about it hurt me because I want him to be honest with me always. I kind of don't trust him now.

[truthbeknown]

Yes, I understand, but if he told you he was probably worried you would freak out and make life miserable and try to change his mind, or try to get pregnant on purpose.

[Asker]

Well as my husband he should know me well enough to know that that isn't how I would have reacted.

[TripleAce]

Yes it's a legitimate reasons. Not only does it effect both of you, it's also sneaky and untrustworthy to do such a thing without consulting you. Even more alarming is he didn't feel the need to discuss it with you, his wife

[NathanStrat]

i dont think he ever wanted kids but told you what you wanted to hear out of fear of losing you, most women want kids, so guys who dont want kids will lie out of desperation. i admit i did that in the past but now im blunt and hardly date cuz of that honesty but i got sick of bullcrapping. i think its grounds for divorce because it was all a facade. He gave you false hope to marry you cuz he knows there is not hardly any girls out there who will marry and not want kids.

[madhatters4]

i think it's grounds for divorce if children were agreed to and the stated desire and he went out and did this basically reneging on the agreement.

pretty selfish decision of partner in a relationship to basically end the chances of making children without talking to the other person

[samhradh_leannan]

It's his body, and therefore ultimately his choice. However, his choice impacted YOUR ability to have children. He should have discussed it with you and tried to be open to a compromise. If you really want kids, I'd say this is potentially grounds for a divorce.

[samhradh_leannan]

Have you talked about WHY he doesn't want kids? Would he potentially consider adopting children? That could be a good compromise, depending on his reasons for not wanting kids. Does he think it's okay that he got the vasectomy without even telling you? What does he have to say for himself in all of this? Is he willing to put in any sort of effort or compromise to keep your marriage going?

[Hidden_P]

Ok the one hand he did this without consulting you and that's not okay. However it's also his body.

As for grounds for divorce I'm not sure. It's grounds for separation but I think you would need to speak to a lawyer if this is grounds for divorce. It's definitely untrustworthy.

I'm sorry he's been this slimy. Although I generally side with men in divorce cases, it's men like this who have made divorces so bitter.

[Goforit1010]

Is it grounds for divorce? I suppose, since you wouldn't be the 1st woman who divorced her husband for that reason.

I would think about that decision carefully, first. There are other options to have children (foster parent, adoption) that he may be open to. If that's not something he's willing to go with, and having your own kids is something you absolutely want, then maybe divorce might be your best option.

[MinkWinsor]

Well it can be reversed, but it sounds to me like you guys are having trouble with making decisions together, where he feels it's easier to do something to overrule your decision than it is to argue. Or he doesn't want to argue. either way, you two might need to find a way to talk about your feelings openly without fear of either person trying to turn it into a fight.

[akadatank44]

Yes it is. It is his body and whatever bullshit people said but they are missing the point. The point is you are inna relationship and what one decided affects theother. And didn't have the balls, pun intended, to tell you what he wanted to do. Not consulting you means he doesn't respect or love you. What kind of man is that? Not a very good one. Divorce would be the case.

[Justacatlady]

Wow! That would certainly cause me to want to leave. That is to big a decision especially when you two are married, for him to make then come home and tell you about it.

[Glen68]

exactly!

[Grace_Rdz]

I don't like reading all the other comments first because then I see eveybody's point of view and can't seem to make up an opinion of my own.
However, I already did and I think you should divorce him if you feel like you won't be able to get past this.
He did make a mistake but like others have said, it is his body. You probably feel really bad about it but you could always forgive.

[Anonymous]

No, it's not grounds for a divorce. He doesn't want kids. What were you going to do, trick him into being a father?

You might have heard of this expression or something like it... His Body, His Choice.

Got it? REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS FOR MEN includes the right to choose not to be a father.

[Asker]

I never said it didnt? But ultimately if he decided he didn't want kids I would have at least liked to have had a discussion about it. Like he just up and did it. Didn't even mention it to me once.

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah. I know plenty of guys who felt similar when their partner decided to take the pill.

[Asker]

The pill isn't permanent.

[Opinion Owner]

Neither is a vasectomy. It can be reversed.

[Asker]

Yes. But the longer he keeps it the less likely the reversal will actually work.

[Opinion Owner]

Still his choice.

[Asker]

Never said it wasn't. But as his wife id like the know about things before he does them, he owes me at least that.

[LoloWaye]

So at first he said he wanted kids, then after marriage said he didn't.

He lied, got a vasectomy.

To me this sounds like he deliberately made sure there would be no kids. I say this is heading for divorce.

He didn't care how this would affect you or the marriage. People have the right to do what they want but you have the right to walk away. Why should you have to stay with someone who doesn't want the same things you do? Sounds like an unhappy marriage

[Anonymous]

Not marriage fraud in the United States. The only definition of marriage fraud in the United States is a US citizen marrying a Foreigner without any intention to create a real marital relationship.

This would be grounds for either anullment or divorce. However, most US states have adopted the no fault divorce stance. So depending on your state you would have to divorce with no fault or typically the statement of irreconcilable differences or file for anullment. To

I understand the emotion behind calling it marriage fraud but individuals can always change their mind.