They're not inherent to eachother, but Communism is inherently Atheist. Kind of like how not all Christians are Catholic, but all Catholics are Christian. Of the societies that tried out Communism, only Atheists continued using it. If a culture has religion and try out Communism... they move onto a better system. The early settlers in America tried out Communism. They planned a communist society and quickly found out it wasn't working. It's something that sounds like a good idea, but doesn't work in a free society.
I know but Communism isn't a mistake of athiesm. It just happens to be atheistic. I wouldn't say that child molestation is a Catholic thing because it isn't. Guilt by association isn't right.
To be fair, if long standing molestation was exclusive to Catholics there would actually be an argument for that comparison lol. But there isn't so it doesn't quite work here. Because communism only stands in atheist societies. It was Lenin himself for example that said a Marxist must be a materialist, which specifically is an enemy of religion among other things ie. Atheist. He also combined those principles when forming Communism... so. If that's not from the horses mouth I don't know what is lol. Communists are Atheists.
Again Atheist does not equal Communism. But Communism is certainly Atheistic so for him to make that connection is entirely valid. This sounds like a situation of #NotAllAtheists, when he was making a coorelation of blaming Christianity the faith or those that perscribe to it for the Inquisition and Blaming Atheism or those that perscribe to Atheism for their crimes against humanity.
But all Communists are Atheist and Communism only festers in Atheist societies. So of course there is a coorelation. Doesn't mean all atheists are communist or are doomed to become communist, but to act as if there is no relation is just silly lol. #NotAllAtheists
I think you're getting hung up on the idea that I'm implying Atheism leads to Communism. That's not what i'm saying or suggesting. Just that there's a connection between the two and that the asker was fair to make the comparison in his reference to the Christian/Inquisition point.
You're applying guilt by association. I understand what you're saying but it isn't rational. There are more atheistic democracies in the world than communist countries therefore trying to pin atheistic belief with a totally unrelated political standpoint is just not sensible. Athiesm did not "create" Communism.
Just because all X are a subgroup of Y doesn't mean all Y are expressions of X or even that X is a sizeable expression for causation.
You imply in #6 that Communism is a mistake of athiesm. That's just outright false. They're completely divorce in actual philosophy. You can totally have a theocratic society with Communism because honestly when you look away from national behavior most "Cults" are theocratic and communist.
It worries me that people try to make "balanced scales", religious fanaticism isn't offset by anything. Zealotry is a real problem and athiesm has no sorry of "evil" to attribute directly to it. Directly killing people in the name of a deity is not an associative relationship but direct.
"You imply in #6 that Communism is a mistake of athiesm. That's just outright false." False lol. And I've specifically gone out of my way to say that's not what I'm suggesting or implying. You've just been taking it that way.
"They're completely divorce in actual philosophy." I'm aware. Which is why i've said more than once that Atheism does not equal Communism, nor lead to Communism. All i've said is that communism does not fester in a society unless it is Atheist, because it's a prerequisite for Communism.
"You can totally have a theocratic society with Communism because honestly when you look away from national behavior most "Cults" are theocratic and communist." On small scale groups they use Socialism, not communism and the only place Socialism does work is in small community of people that love eachother. Like a family.
Whether you are religious or atheist, you have to realize neither side can claim to have a clean history. Both sides have had their dark moments in history. Christianity has the mark of the inquisitions, while atheism has the mark of Communism (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro)."
"And I've specifically gone out of my way to say that's not what I'm suggesting or implying. You've just been taking it that way."
Word for word how else can this be taken?
It is like you don't get that the Crusades were a direct result of Christian influence.
There is no "Atheist influence". There are no tenets to influence anything.
To even imply that Stalin decided one day to become atheist and therefore KILL MILLIONS OF PEOPLE BECAUSE O F THAT BELIEF is insanely and grotesquely false. It's almost like you don't understand what you're saying or something.
I think what gets to me is you took random individuals in history who happened to be atheist and are combining them as though there was a common thread of thought in which most cases there wasn't. They're very different people with very, very different mindsets on how to run a very broadly understood political system who are literally philsophically speaking plancks apart in implementation.
If you look at almost any set of religious zealotry throughout history it almost always runs under Divine Command Theory, a Theocracy, and a specifically subversive attempt at ethnocide or genocide with the intent to terminate an entire opposing philosophy.
Religious war, which is very rare to begin with, specifically has these things in common. It doesn't even matter who the deity is; in order to be such you require the two to be directly intertwined to even begin to qualify.
It's a gross misrepresentation of how things work and general history. It makes my skin crawl for some reason.
"I think what gets to me is you took random individuals in history who happened to be atheist and are combining them as though there was a common thread of thought in which most cases there wasn't."
You're aware this isn't my post right? I'm just commenting on your reply to another person post.
I consider your "defending" the statement to be equivalent to approving and therefore essentially making the statement. You agree to the statement to the point where you would make the statement yourself.
So yes, I am aware, but that doesn't matter.
Real issues like Islamophobia exist because of people who argue these things. The entire point of this MyTake is to "tackle the conflict" but if you're ignorant and you build an entire understanding of the world on ignorance then isn't that the real conflict? The fact that no one has even bothered to think more about this; you can fingerpoint at any given philosophy in the universe and come to absolutely impossible conclusions.
There have been holy wars. There has never been a war declared in the name of Atheism. In this world there isn't always an equivalent and so long as we pretend that we understand but are unwilling to research for ourselves we will continue to pose nonsensical beliefs and draw shit conclusions.
Well, you can consider it equivalent, but It's not at all equivalent lol. That's like saying someone is equally guilty of assault, because they think the assault someone else committed was justified. So, for sure chill out with that lol. Regardless,
I haven't been saying I agree with his statement exactly. I've said I think the comparison he made was a fair one.
If correlating the Inquisition with Christianity is fair, then the comparison of correlating Communism with Atheism is fair. If correlating the Inquisition with Christianity isn't fair, then correlating Communism with Atheism isn't fair. But no matter how you feel about it. They are correlated. And I don't see how you yourself can quote "correlation does not equal causation" and then say, because one does not cause the other that it also means there is no correlation. That is just logically incorrect.
Just logically speaking. Lenin the creator of Communism himself said Atheism is a requirement of Communism. Correlation.
Atheism is a requirement for Communism. You don't have to like that fact, but it is a fact and directly correlated. Even if Atheism doesn't cause Communism.
If it makes you feel better there is a correlation between religious zealotry and terrorism. I don't have to like it, but there is a correlation. Being a religious zealot doesn't cause terrorism, but they are correlated.
@rjroy3 I hate you, I hate fucking Christians. I hate rich people. Why did Kim Kardashian get a rich father but I got a bum who was in debt? The CIA want us to believe this shit. Christians don't give a shit about justice in the real world because you think poor people will go tomheaven when they die, bollocks. That's what the CIA want us to believe. This life is all there is, we need to kill all the millionaires and create a society of justice and equality here in the real world.
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you make good points but of course there is a middle-ground for everything. you tend to be thinking in terms of extremes.
#6 is inaccurate. Communism and athiesm are not inherent to one another.
They're not inherent to eachother, but Communism is inherently Atheist. Kind of like how not all Christians are Catholic, but all Catholics are Christian. Of the societies that tried out Communism, only Atheists continued using it. If a culture has religion and try out Communism... they move onto a better system. The early settlers in America tried out Communism. They planned a communist society and quickly found out it wasn't working. It's something that sounds like a good idea, but doesn't work in a free society.
I know but Communism isn't a mistake of athiesm. It just happens to be atheistic. I wouldn't say that child molestation is a Catholic thing because it isn't. Guilt by association isn't right.
To be fair, if long standing molestation was exclusive to Catholics there would actually be an argument for that comparison lol. But there isn't so it doesn't quite work here. Because communism only stands in atheist societies. It was Lenin himself for example that said a Marxist must be a materialist, which specifically is an enemy of religion among other things ie. Atheist. He also combined those principles when forming Communism... so. If that's not from the horses mouth I don't know what is lol. Communists are Atheists.
Again Atheist does not equal Communism. But Communism is certainly Atheistic so for him to make that connection is entirely valid. This sounds like a situation of #NotAllAtheists, when he was making a coorelation of blaming Christianity the faith or those that perscribe to it for the Inquisition and Blaming Atheism or those that perscribe to Atheism for their crimes against humanity.
The vast majority of atheists aren't Communists so there is no correlation.
But all Communists are Atheist and Communism only festers in Atheist societies. So of course there is a coorelation. Doesn't mean all atheists are communist or are doomed to become communist, but to act as if there is no relation is just silly lol. #NotAllAtheists
I think you're getting hung up on the idea that I'm implying Atheism leads to Communism. That's not what i'm saying or suggesting. Just that there's a connection between the two and that the asker was fair to make the comparison in his reference to the Christian/Inquisition point.
You're applying guilt by association. I understand what you're saying but it isn't rational. There are more atheistic democracies in the world than communist countries therefore trying to pin atheistic belief with a totally unrelated political standpoint is just not sensible. Athiesm did not "create" Communism.
Just because all X are a subgroup of Y doesn't mean all Y are expressions of X or even that X is a sizeable expression for causation.
You imply in #6 that Communism is a mistake of athiesm. That's just outright false. They're completely divorce in actual philosophy. You can totally have a theocratic society with Communism because honestly when you look away from national behavior most "Cults" are theocratic and communist.
It worries me that people try to make "balanced scales", religious fanaticism isn't offset by anything. Zealotry is a real problem and athiesm has no sorry of "evil" to attribute directly to it. Directly killing people in the name of a deity is not an associative relationship but direct.
"You imply in #6 that Communism is a mistake of athiesm. That's just outright false."
False lol. And I've specifically gone out of my way to say that's not what I'm suggesting or implying. You've just been taking it that way.
"They're completely divorce in actual philosophy."
I'm aware. Which is why i've said more than once that Atheism does not equal Communism, nor lead to Communism. All i've said is that communism does not fester in a society unless it is Atheist, because it's a prerequisite for Communism.
"You can totally have a theocratic society with Communism because honestly when you look away from national behavior most "Cults" are theocratic and communist."
On small scale groups they use Socialism, not communism and the only place Socialism does work is in small community of people that love eachother. Like a family.
"6.) Neither side has a clean history
Whether you are religious or atheist, you have to realize neither side can claim to have a clean history. Both sides have had their dark moments in history. Christianity has the mark of the inquisitions, while atheism has the mark of Communism (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro)."
"And I've specifically gone out of my way to say that's not what I'm suggesting or implying. You've just been taking it that way."
Word for word how else can this be taken?
It is like you don't get that the Crusades were a direct result of Christian influence.
There is no "Atheist influence". There are no tenets to influence anything.
To even imply that Stalin decided one day to become atheist and therefore KILL MILLIONS OF PEOPLE BECAUSE O F THAT BELIEF is insanely and grotesquely false. It's almost like you don't understand what you're saying or something.
I think what gets to me is you took random individuals in history who happened to be atheist and are combining them as though there was a common thread of thought in which most cases there wasn't. They're very different people with very, very different mindsets on how to run a very broadly understood political system who are literally philsophically speaking plancks apart in implementation.
If you look at almost any set of religious zealotry throughout history it almost always runs under Divine Command Theory, a Theocracy, and a specifically subversive attempt at ethnocide or genocide with the intent to terminate an entire opposing philosophy.
Religious war, which is very rare to begin with, specifically has these things in common. It doesn't even matter who the deity is; in order to be such you require the two to be directly intertwined to even begin to qualify.
It's a gross misrepresentation of how things work and general history. It makes my skin crawl for some reason.
"I think what gets to me is you took random individuals in history who happened to be atheist and are combining them as though there was a common thread of thought in which most cases there wasn't."
You're aware this isn't my post right? I'm just commenting on your reply to another person post.
I consider your "defending" the statement to be equivalent to approving and therefore essentially making the statement. You agree to the statement to the point where you would make the statement yourself.
So yes, I am aware, but that doesn't matter.
Real issues like Islamophobia exist because of people who argue these things. The entire point of this MyTake is to "tackle the conflict" but if you're ignorant and you build an entire understanding of the world on ignorance then isn't that the real conflict? The fact that no one has even bothered to think more about this; you can fingerpoint at any given philosophy in the universe and come to absolutely impossible conclusions.
There have been holy wars. There has never been a war declared in the name of Atheism. In this world there isn't always an equivalent and so long as we pretend that we understand but are unwilling to research for ourselves we will continue to pose nonsensical beliefs and draw shit conclusions.
Fear Reigns.
Well, you can consider it equivalent, but It's not at all equivalent lol. That's like saying someone is equally guilty of assault, because they think the assault someone else committed was justified. So, for sure chill out with that lol. Regardless,
I haven't been saying I agree with his statement exactly. I've said I think the comparison he made was a fair one.
If correlating the Inquisition with Christianity is fair, then the comparison of correlating Communism with Atheism is fair. If correlating the Inquisition with Christianity isn't fair, then correlating Communism with Atheism isn't fair. But no matter how you feel about it. They are correlated. And I don't see how you yourself can quote "correlation does not equal causation" and then say, because one does not cause the other that it also means there is no correlation. That is just logically incorrect.
Just logically speaking. Lenin the creator of Communism himself said Atheism is a requirement of Communism. Correlation.
Atheism is a requirement for Communism. You don't have to like that fact, but it is a fact and directly correlated. Even if Atheism doesn't cause Communism.
If it makes you feel better there is a correlation between religious zealotry and terrorism. I don't have to like it, but there is a correlation. Being a religious zealot doesn't cause terrorism, but they are correlated.
You win. I'm pooped
@rjroy3 I hate you, I hate fucking Christians. I hate rich people. Why did Kim Kardashian get a rich father but I got a bum who was in debt? The CIA want us to believe this shit. Christians don't give a shit about justice in the real world because you think poor people will go tomheaven when they die, bollocks. That's what the CIA want us to believe. This life is all there is, we need to kill all the millionaires and create a society of justice and equality here in the real world.
Can't we all just get along?
Intriguing Mytake
I agree with you.
Good mytake.
Thank you.
sensitive issue nice one
Another religious internet war...
Very insightful!
Nice take
Interesting Mytake