Very much real. I have seen and witness both sides of those places. It is not what some would expect because one, heaven is breathtaking, and two, hell is not where anybody really wants to go. People who say they don't, that's okay. Because we're all going to pass away one day. Somebody has to go somewhere. And hell is not the place I want to go to. Enough hell down here and its practically nothing compared to a real hell.
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It's cringy that some liberals trying to sound cool say that they will party and have lots of sex in Hell. And hang with gays and atheists. I guess that iis how some people become satanists. Many celebrities too.
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I believe I will probably going to heaven but I believe there are different degrees of reward in heaven and different types of worship in heaven so I still have to work on being a good person - and if I don't work on myself - I might not end up there at all.
I don't believe it. Suppose there is a God who created heaven and hell. Why is he testing us? Shouldn't he be all knowing anyways? Even if God wasn't testing us, then why do we live for about 80 years on Earth then spend eternity in another dimension? Seems like a waste of time spent on Earth if you ask me because that just makes things pointless here.
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He has given us this life to see where we deserve to go. We all have FREE WILL.
I follow a different way, and there is no Hell, or damnation, or punishment!! How sad is a 'belief' system that has something that is eternal pain and punishment? I was raised with Christianity, and God was about LOVE, and Forgiveness!! Why are so many, here asking about Hell, unless they are Evil, at heart, and fearing that belief?
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Are you saying Satan is not real? If Hell doesn't exist then why are ther commandments?
The commandments were written words, to tell people how to act, and have integrity, in a time of sin, and idol worship. Just because there were Commandments given, does not lead to the need for Hell and damnation! That was something some angry men made up, to try to control the people who could not read, and understand the Word, themselves!!
I believe there is a creative will that created the universe and all that is in it. So far I have not come across any other rational explanation of how such a universe and its properties have come to existence. There are really no satisfactory models for the inception of the universe. And at best it's all conjecture and guess work. The idea that there is a creative force out there which has the properties of being eternal and omnipotent... is really the simplest and most acceptable model for the inception of our universe. Not only did it suffice for those people who lived 10,000 years ago... but it still suffices for us even till today. At its core the rational behind such an explanation can't be disputed.
So now the question is... if such a creative force was able to create the universe... what really stops it from creating other dimensions/destinations such as Heaven and Hell? I mean is there really any logic in me as a finite being doubting the creative capacity of an infinitely creative being? Can't such a creative being create Heaven and Hell if He wanted to? there really is no logic in doubting such an outcome...
In my opinion.. people who doubt the existence of Heaven and Hell really do so for specific motives. Either they don't want to acknowledge that there is a Creator and they have a moral obligation to follow His will... and therefore they dismiss Him and the idea that there will be any consequences... OR... they simply want to enjoy their life as much as they can by following their whims and desires and they don't want to face any consequences for such actions... so they pursue these desires in the false hope that when they die that's it.. it's the end... there is no more...
But for people who are truly morally driven they cannot accept that we can do as we want and just get away with it... this is why concepts of Heaven and Hell are so integral to the essence of true moral thought. End of the day True Justice has to prevail. However, this is more than just petty arguments of who is going to Heaven vs who is going to Hell. We should all want the best for each other. But the point is simple... what good is something if it doesn't serve the purpose for which it was created? This is really the essence of the argument... something that does not serve its function or purpose is going to be displeasing to the creator... this displeasure has consequences for the creation.
I voted A, yes, but I believe that they are yet to be created. Furthermore: The idea of a Hell whereby beings are endlessly tortured, is so monstrous and unpalatable, skeptics use it to justify unbelief and reject Christianity. Therefore I have a radical, sensible, alternative. As a Christian I completely reject that absolutely repugnant concept of infinite punishment, yet also thoroughly reject the concept of universal salvation.
Concepts of Hell pervading ancient mythology suggests that this concept is common sense, rather than being fictitious. Rejecting the idea of hell altogether disregards justice, having people sinning limitlessly without ever facing God. Hell is not only the grave; Christian scripture has two hells. Sometimes the Greek word Hades, denoting the grave or departed state, is translated into the English word hell. Other times the Greek word Gehenna is translated "hell." Gehenna was originally a valley where children were burned alive as sacrifices to the idol Moloch. Since this place was abhorred, it later became a garbage dump for dead bodies, where fires continually burned to quell the ongoing putrefaction.
The wonderful opposite Heaven would be eternal intimacy with God according to Christianity. Perhaps there will be different degrees of Heaven. Consider the following analogy: If God was a star, those who did a splendid job of doing His will throughout their lives might be like an inner planet orbiting the star and receiving its maximum radiance. Those with a passion for God but whose lives were somewhat lacking could be like a planet at an average distance, still receiving a healthy amount of radiance. Those whose lives were seriously disordered and whose loyalties were ambivalent, yet whom God still forgives may be likened to a distant planet that receives minimal radiance but is still within the star's gravitational range. The lost would be like space debris outside the star's gravitational pull; hence they float away into outer darkness. This is just a sample of my writing on this subject from Chapter IX (9) on my website: www.thezap.net
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They are real. I've done extensive research on it. It would take way too long hair to explain why I believe that beyond the shadow of the doubt that they're real. It's amazes me how many people blow them off like there's no chance they are real. It's almost better to live ly and that they aren't. The reality is that about 97.5% of the human beings are going to go to hell. 2.5% will go to heaven. This is just because of the way that the person who must be in their relation to how they are with God in order to go to heaven. They have to ask for his forgiveness and accept his gift of eternal life but they must also do these other things that are not works but it's hard to explain. I've been a Christian for a long time before and I've tried and tried to do the best and I wanted so bad to get to the point where I knew I'd be in that 2.5%. but I couldn't get there and I still hang on to some of the things that are going to do me. I mean I know that I'm going to help. Unless something really changes. Terrible thing is that I know how utterly horrible and unbelievably terrible it's going to be. And we'll be there forever and ever without end. God is not going to come back for those who can sit there and have compassion on it they're gone and that's it. This suffering is going to be an imaginable there's going to be demons there that torturous there's going to be placing where we roast and fires that it needs to imagine being in the middle of a bonfire 2 years. I mean it's just kind of asking how bad it was for you the stories that I've heard of people that have seen it. I try not to think about it and I hope that somehow I'm wrong because I'm starting to believe in another theory about they're being another world and it's not a stunt christianity. But I've seen so much proof for God and evidence for God. It just seems like he's just giving us shortage why not making it where we can get in there easier. But everyone sure should try. I mean that's the only thing you can do and I've tried but I could. But then it goes back to that you're working your way to heaven which is supposedly got something that you can say you can do. We're done. The human race is doing. You're ready for what it's going to be a most terrible eternity from both of us. And you're probably laughing at me now but you won't be laughing then. I've had a dream before that I was in hell and I know that God gave me this train I was kind of asleep I thought it was in the air out I wrote our ripped my shirt apart I couldn't move when I woke up I couldn't talk for 10 minutes I was in shock it was something beyond the horror movie it was your worst insanity wrapped around your throat in your mind. I don't know why God has to make it so bad but I'm a Christian and let me know me when I come to church tonight. But a lot of people are disappointed me with me in charge for about the way I'm doing right oh well. I'm going to go to hell man I'm going to enjoy the ride to get there shotgun somebody wants to ride with me. And I have a plan to try to avoid having to go inside. It probably won't work but it's possibility
No, I don’t believe in either heaven or hell because the logic and evidence for both is poor at best. The idea of an eternal damnation for the world’s wrongdoers is hard for anyone of this world to wrap their heads around, which obviously includes me. As much as I despise and hate certain individuals on this planet, I’m hesitant to damn them to ETERNAL hell. NO ONE can comprehend the idea of ANYTHING being ETERNAL; it’s just a foreign idea beyond humans’ comprehension. I don’t want to live with a being/god watching my every move, like being under a magnifying glass. I don’t even know if this being/god is good or what his/her intentions are. The idea of heaven and hell seem to have been created by humans which is partially why the evidence for such things is nonexistent.
Lol you not that dumb look when someone doesn't study properly and on the day of the exam they blank out and hate themselves for not knowing the truth? That's what many non-believers will shit their pants when God breaks open the universe of heaven and hell with over 60,000 angels watching. God is great, God is real, God is the magnificent, he is the creator of the earth, the universe and the heavens. Do people honestly think you can commit adultery, murder, and the oppression of others (what the West does to kids in 3rd world countries)
Cue the part on GAG when people talk shit to me about my post, uwww omg im scared of faceless keyboard warriors :-O
Do people honestly think you can commit adultery, murder, and the oppression of others (what the West does to kids in 3rd world countries) and get away with it, even if the police or judicial system doesn't catch you? God will punish those on the day of judgment, mark my words. I'll put every mother fucking dollar I make in this world on the line if I am wrong about this and this goes to the stupid GaGGer's who are self-absorbed and ignorant about this world or the hereafter.
"Do people honestly think you can commit adultery, murder, and the oppression of others (what the West does to kids in 3rd world countries) and get away with it, even if the police or judicial system doesn't catch you?" THIS!
There is Heaven and Hell. This one Man took sick one time he was living a wild life and he died , well the paramedics brought him back to life and he was sent to Hell and he told his story of all the screeches, cries , screaming , he smelled burning he went to these huge thick black Gates and they were the Gates to Hell. This one Christian Woman told me no one lives to see what Heaven looks like you must go through the Son Jesus to get to God to see what Heaven looks like. But i believe there is in between called Purgatory where you are stuck roaming the Earth and you must walk into the Light to go to Heaven.
I will tell you a story about my mother and her grandfather you see recently my grandfather passed away. My mother had a dream of my grandfather they talked and stuff and at one point he looked at his clothing and said "i'm wet" there was a small splash of water on his top. Later on my mum phoned my aunt who visited my grandfathers grave and she asked him did you put water on his grave? She said no and went to ask my uncle (her husband) and he said yes "We bought some flowers and in the bag it had water to keep the petals fresh I laid the flowers down sprinkled the flowers and his grave with a little bit of water." Never seen my mother so happy. The dead are still watching over you in the afterlife may not be heaven or hell but is somewhere there is a somewhere "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed only transferred"
Yes and no. I believe Heaven is real, but I do not believe most everyone is going. I believe only a select few are going, but the rest of us will remain on Earth with the coming of Christ as that's what it says in Revelations. Of course, most 'Christians' these days do not think that because they go to the church to be lectured, but they do not read the Bible themselves to really understand it.
I also believe in Hell, but in the Bible, it's referred to as a deep sleep multiple times. The 'eternal fire' that's referred to is once the Devil is cast out with his fallen angels and Christ has returned because that signifies Satan is no longer the ruler of all things. Currently, if we were to die today, no one's soul would be burning. You'd be in a deep slumber.
Heaven is considered spending eternity with God and hell is spending eternity in separation from God. So, if God doesn't exist then we all, technically, go to hell. I don't believe in the man made thought of heaven being the pearly gates in the clouds and hell being an existence of fiery torment.
Pain is subjective. Regardless if it's physical, emotional or cognitive pain. Knowing you're separated from God for eternity could be the most painful thing in the universe.
If they are real, I'm not going to either. I cannot fathom either being a reality of any sort. Pretty sure neither exists as I don't believe in the "God" or the "Devil". They're both giant kids with no idea of how to run anything. Something so powerful yet, it cannot bend its own rules and preserve the life of what is near and dear to it. Heaven doesn't sound that great and hell sounds like parts of 🌎
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It's not up to you where to go. God will send you to where you deserve
I don't deserve anything. I'm a neutral entity. And I don't think it's right to only believe in 1 God nor do I think an afterlife of such a "reputation" should or does exist.
Regarding this issue, I'm like most -I'd love it if heaven were real. However, through life experiences, I'm not convinced in an afterlife.
I feel all religion springs from human ideation and has become widely accepted for various reasons. That stated, the saddest day of my life was when I critically evaluated my religious belief and found it to be a faulty house of cards.
I can't say I'm better for my 'new' understanding and feel ignorance, to some, can be bliss. Who wants to suffer, die and simply rot in a air-tight box when all's said and done?
I believe they're real, but I don't think we have a firm concept of what they really are deep down. Sort of like we know about other galaxies outside of ours, but we don't REALLY have a firm grasp of what this is in reality. Or how we know about blackholes, but don't really know what that something/nothing is. We have theories.
I don't believe in heaven and hell but I do know one thing. That the heavens refers to the sky or what is beyond our Earth. I know now that I am a complex form of living thing that lives on borrowed energy which was here before I existed, and will continue to be there when I am dead. When I die I will rot and be Inccooperated into the body of other living organisms like plants, worms etc but every thing about me will continue to transform. As for my consciousness, I do not know about that.
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Yes, real. Hell isn't a place bad people are in forever their bodies will be burned and will cease to exist forever. Heaven is a place good people will go when the rapture happens, but until then we sleep as Jesus/God says in the Holy King James Version Bible. After the sleep the dead shal rise from the grave, then the living... "us" ;) where we will remain for 1000 years then we will go to the new earth.
Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Matthew 13:50 ----And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Matthew 10:28 ----And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
-Once the body and soul is destroyed, there is no more suffering.
here's the kicker though...
Revelation 20:7-10
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
That's saying everyone will be brought back to life. All the bad guys included, Adolf Hitler, your evil next door neighbor. Then they will burn.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
-The dead were the ones that didn't make it into heaven for the 1 thousand years. The ones that the Catholic church tells people that go to hell forever when you die.
Interesting. So you're saying that those who have not received Christ will go to hell, but they will eventually burn up and cease to exist? But Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire in Hell and stay there forever?
@Jamie05rhs Yes, but the people who didn't go to heaven for the 1st thousand years will be brought back to life and get a second chance, whether they take that second chance or not, that's another story.
Nobody can no for sure, but i dont believe there is a god at all. Anything can be explained with science so therefore i dont believe there's some person out here making miracles. Therefore since i believe there is no god i also believe there is no heaven or hell. We rot in the ground in my personal opinion.
Simple answer without trying to step on too many toes. Yes they are real. I have seen karma work too often to bet against it. So treat everyone how you wish to be treated and make the world a better place.
My own church teaches that "Heaven" and "Hell" are states of existence/experience. They are the same "place", but it is how we experience the situation that matters. It is a condition where all truths are stripped naked, and we cannot even lie to ourselves.
I can't say with 100% certainty both are real but according to my walks during life, I'm 99.95% sure Heaven exists and 96% sure Hell exists based on the encounters and visions I've had of the 2 red horses during an accident I had and a dream I had while my dream states were blurred.
don't distract from the question. if you can be "sure" heaven and hell are real without proof, then why can i not be "sure" that it doesn't exist without proof.
i can simply reject the fact that heaven and hell exist, cause they are clearly fiction. if i accepted them to be real, i would have to assume every fiction "might" be real and since that's obviously untrue, i can legitimately reject the claim of them existing untill you provide demonstrable evidence that shows it's not fiction. but since you claim to have that, go ahead. show me your proof.
I canb't show you what I hvae seen. And I clearly said it's up to you to believe or not. Do you think God is not real? Or you just don't believe in Heaven aand Hell?
by the way, if there's something that only you specifically could see and never show to anybody or demonstrate it, that's what we call "delusion" or "imagination".
It won't let me reply again in the comment but I was just going to say ok. Do you believe in dream time. Where dreams are us leaving our bodies and visiting places and talking to other people who are in dream time too?
@Haelaeix123 I can't prove to YOU but I am 100% sure they are real. I am sure they are real. Thes question is not whether you can prove a positive or a negative but whether you believe or not and how much you believe
That's the whole basis of any religion. Faith. You either have it or don't. It's why you can't convince an atheist there is a god just like you can prove to a person of religion that there isn't. Which again makes the whole argumentative side of things pointless, nobody gets anywhere.
I'm aware, I was just making a point. But you'll only believe in heaven and hell if you believe there is a god because he by definition created them so if you believe one then you'll believe the other. I'm not arguing on the point of proof cus that is pointless. But you won't believe one of those things without the other.
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I've seen no real evidence that either exist. Nobody can know for sure until death. I've seen crazy things in my dreams but it doesn't make me believe them to be true or accurate.
That's a pretty lame and easily proven false statement. If I looked at you and thought you were a man would that make it true or would it just be my backwards perception?
If there is a God, and he tortures people for not worshipping him, then your God is evil, and any Christian worshipping such a being with a clean conscience is at the very least immoral
God doesn't torture people. Demons do. He is not going to force you to worship him, but he is not going to tolerate sin in his presence either. There is a good reason why satan and his angels were cast out of heaven. And its the garbage you see that down here. That's why you must be saved. How can you talk about immorality when you're just as much as a sinner like the rest of us? Only you can send yourself to hell. Nobody else.
If God is almighty, he's 100% responsible for creating or tolerating hell. If he's not able to, then he's not almighty and not god. If he's able but unwilling, he's evil cause he tolerates that evil systems
Infinite punishment for finite crimes is immoral by definition. You don't need to be free of sin to have a moral compass. And you don't need an old, morally questionable book to decide what is right and wrong.
God, who exterminated entire civilizations (according to the bible) certainly is not free of sin to judge us.
Was every woman and child during the great flood evil? If so, God knew and knows the results of your free will in advance, meaning that he created some people just to have them tortured forever, which makes him sadistic and therefore evil.
If not, he killed billions of innocents (or possible innocents) for no reason. In that case the question of God's morality comes down to whether you think genocide for no reason is okay or not.
First of all, do not be a false witness. I can tell you don't read or fully understand the word of God.
1. "If God is almighty, he's 100% responsible for creating or tolerating hell." HELL firstly was supposed to be a place for fallen angels who disobeyed God. They can NEVER be redeemed. But us human's can. It is choice to be in ignorance and follow into hell along with them
2. "If he's not able to, then he's not almighty and not god." In Revelations, it clearly declares through prophesy that God is going to eventually destroy it along with Satan, the fallen angels and the souls who are satan's children, those who willingly did sin, those who disobeyed their parents, and those who chose to go unsaved whether their good people or bad, Christian or not.
3. "If he's able but unwilling, he's evil cause he tolerates that evil systems" And how many BS excuses you make for yourself when you hurt others, disobey your parents, rebel against the system and commit crimes? He is not somebody who will infringe on your rights as a human being with free will. Hope you Supported Trump then because if not, your a hypocrite at best.
4. "You don't need to be free of sin to have a moral compass." If you have sin, which you do, you're immoral. Period. God said there is NO ONE THAT IS GOOD. NOT ONE. It is a choice to do good. It is a choice to do evil. By your logic, nothing should be a crime. We have wrongfully charged every human being who committed rape, murder, robbery, etc.
5. "Infinite punishment for finite crimes is immoral by definition. "The price for sin, is DEATH. You have people who smoke and tattoo their bodies. All which causes cancer. If it's not a sin, how come we get cancer, disease, or die? By your definition, we all should be immoral with no need to die.
6. "And you don't need an old, morally questionable book to decide what is right and wrong." Then you should have been born with no parents or anybody to care or raise you. You apparently can raise yourself.
You just sound like a rebellious and bitter person who is not yet mature enough to handle the gravity of the world. I don't know who hurt you, but I can tell you lack knowledge about this subject.
7. "God, who exterminated entire civilizations (according to the bible) certainly is not free of sin to judge us." Excuse me? You better thank God of the heavens for even allowing you to even EXIST. He knew you before you knew him. And the reason he had to get rid of them because many of them were not HUMAN. They were part human, part something else. Why do you think we have UFO's, mythical creatures, or so-called myth? Because they are NOT myths! That's a lie they taught us to confuse us and keep us in the dark of what is really happening in the world. It's just not how you see and read it in fiction. He has no sin because he is perfect. We are not.
8. "Was every woman and child during the great flood evil?" The Cainites were evil because they committed murders, wars, and slept with each other, animals and fallen angels. All things which are considered ILLEGAL in today's world. Beastiality, anyone? They did those things. They were all tainted. Why do you think a drunk is often a drunk, and the children or grandchildren sometimes have the same sin and get worse with each generation? Because its a curse. And only God can break it by our free will to allow him to show us how. Without people who are knowledgable and equipped to deal with those matters, we wouldn't have treatment centers to help such people get clean.
9. "If so, God knew and knows the results of your free will in advance, meaning that he created some people just to have them tortured forever, which makes him sadistic and therefore evil." Not true at all. Again, he gives us free WILL to CHOOSE. Just because he knows, it doesn't mean that is the path we will choose. I always say there are 3 different paths. The path in the middle, the path on the right and the path on the left. The middle is the straight and narrow path, full of bumps but leads you to God. Every other path leads to hell. That means by example. Say one of the biggest curses in your family is drinking, premarital sex, and drug abuse.
The middle path is where you never had sex before marriage, never drank to get drunk, which is a sin, drinking is not a sin. Or ever abused drugs. The left could be you doing premarital sex, but you never got drunk to be a drunkard or did drugs. While the right is you did them all. YOU choose what path you want to take. Two paths lead to hell. The one path leads you getting into heaven. That is what God sees. He tries to lead you on the straight and narrow path. He has servants of him show you and help guide you in your life through insights, teaching, and prophesy. But it's up to YOU to decide to listen to him or disobey him. The same way he charges your parents to train you in the way YOU should walk, and you will not depart from their teachings. So if you get punished by your parents for disobedience, you rightly so deserved it if it was out of a moral cause.
Was every unborn baby guilty of those crimes? Do you believe in collective justice now? Are you Christian or communist? Price of every sin (no matter how small) is death? Reading your excuses for the bible, I'm not even sure if you're defending Christianity or Stalinism.
And the whole idea that if people don't worship their Devine master they'll be tortured, and locked away to suffer and eventually die, sounds very much like the Soviet union and gulags
"Was every unborn baby guilty of those crimes?" We are all born guilty because of sin. For those reasons that's why God commanded the adults and parents to teach us about him so that we can make those decisions for ourselves who we will serve. God or Satan [mammomn], because you cannot serve yourself.
"Do you believe in collective justice now?" I believe in what God said is right. If he says it is sin, it's sin. It is not my place to say what is and what isn't. I know for myself through personal experience that I am not proud of my sins and the urges to do sin in the flesh. But through prayer, dedicating myself to God. Separating myself from the world and the people who are in it, developing self-discipline and self-control has taught me that people DO have choices to do right or do wrong. To have virtue and morals, or have vice and immorality. What I say are not excuses, but from the insights and the wisdom, God gives me to tell and teach you. I do not expect somebody like you who is carnal minded to understand spiritual things and the matters of this life. But I will not use your age as an excuse. I have learned and known this since my toddlerhood.
Face it. Tour religion is a USSR type model, where the government (God) watches you, tortures you for disobedience and is above morals (or rather is the one defining what is right and wrong) and all his followers fanatically defend him
"And the whole idea that if people don't worship their Devine master they'll be tortured, and locked away to suffer and eventually die, sounds very much like the Soviet union and gulags" See this is your problem. You only want to hear about yourself. You do not want to hear others and you false accuse and assume things about people. This is an internal problem, not a Christianity or religious issue. This is just you. I tell you one thing, you say another. Go doesn't TORTURE people. It is a choice to want to suffer! If you choose to smoke and end up with cancer as my late grandfather did, that was YOUR choice as it was sadly his. My late mother had premarital sex at 13 for the first time and ended up with HPV by a guy who pratically by the law, raped her even though it was consentual. He NEVER told her he slept with 5 prostitudes before her, and that he had warts. It was his friend who took the liberty to expose himself to her and her friend at the time and admitted that they ALL slept with those women and ended up with HPV. Were is HER justice? She didn't get it. She had to dump him immediately once she found him. All the more reason she told ME to save myself. And I thank God FOR HER, I never did. And still didn't. When she passed away 3 years ago in my home, that was a serious wake-up call for me.
So sorry to disappoint. I do not have a religion. God made it clear. He wants everyone to be at peace, to love each other, and to prosper. He did not want this crap that is happening now to go on. That was never his intention. But that is ours. I don't know what your issue is, but you seem very dysfunctional to even think like that. He is a father. Not just God. Do you have any parents? Because from what I am sensing, somebody failed you growing up.
Sadly that's exactly what our world government wants and will enact with a one world religion. They'll torture you and kill you if you don't obey. That's not God.
And its also a choice to do what you want that will one day get you or somebody else killed. Everything in LIFE is a choice. About time you grow up and get with the program.
If God is almighty, the system runs by his design. A system where people who don't submit get tortured (no matter by who, he's in charge=> he's responsible for the the of environment after death)
Swap the word God in your justifications with Stalin or Mao, and much of what you said will be literal quotes from their apologists.
If you think that God is above morals, and has right to d Say what's right and wrong after committing genocide, just cause he's more powerful, then by your logic every dictator is justified
@btbc92 See, it’s interesting that you’re putting it in terms of real life. Yet the implication at the end of the day, is that you die, and you go to hell where you burn for all of eternity.
I get all of what you’re saying. I’ve learned about all of this. I’ve dug into the conservatives and really learned their beliefs. Which is that god is the father, gives us our morals and guides us. Blah blah blah.
My problem though, ultimately? Is the idea that you’re going to burn in Hell for eternity.
Now, I understand how you can choose to go to hell. Your actions can ultimately create suffering. The Bible is supposed to be a guide to help you away from that.
But then it tells you that you will burn for an eternity in a special area designed to torture you for an eternity for something which probably lasted like an hour lol.
To me, there becomes a fork in the road. Either you believe you will burn for eternity. OR you believe that “hell” is not a place or thing, but rather a state of being. A state of being you chose. You knew doing heroin every day would addict you and put you in the streets. You chose this hell.
But that is not the same hell we are talking about. You are talking about it as if the Bible is interpreted the way I see it. It’s purely a guide to live life and has nothing to do with an eternity in “heaven” or “hell.” Those things don’t exist. But those things are simply results of a certain type of action, and that in the real reality, the real universe, and this real life, you can sentence YOURSELF to hell or heaven depending on your actions. Also, many actions are ignorant and people wouldn’t even know which ones would lead to good or bad.
So my question is. Do you believe that “god” sends you to burn for eternity or not.
No one owes anyone anything. An act of kindness (creating us) doesn't mean were property. If we're not, he has no right to commit all the murders in the bible and dictate morality
"So why do Christians oppose totalitarian communism? That's literally the kind of environment the bible describes" And what does our textbooks about history describes? No different than what is in the Bible. God's word is his word. When he talked about these things, it reveals sin in human beings and what we have to do to correct these problems. No textbook or history book tells us how to solve these problems. Because of its speculation and opinion. God's word is NOT an opinion, but a commandment we must follow if we expect to have a peaceful life other than this one on earth.
"If God is almighty, the system runs by his design. A system where people who don't submit get tortured (no matter by who, he's in charge=> he's responsible for the the of environment after death)" AGAIN, you are twisting what I am saying. Do you even pay attention at all? I told you. GOD does NOT torture PEOPLE.
1. The rules of sin are death. Period. 2. Hell is the final DEATH. 3. Hell was created for the fallen angels who wanted what is happening here on earth up in heaven and wanted anarchy. A complete hijack of heaven and actually dethrone God.
"Swap the word God in your justifications with Stalin or Mao, and much of what you said will be literal quotes from their apologists. " These people again, are Satanist and ANTI-CHRIST. Of course, it will sound the same. The only difference is they wanted a complete takeover. That is not what God is trying to do. He is trying to get his people OUT before he gets rid of everything here that is dysfunctional and toxic. Do you see all these school shootings? He wants all of that is this crap down here to END. People are EVIL. And good souls cannot survive down here will all of that wickedness.
"Say what's right and wrong after committing genocide, just cause he's more powerful, then by your logic every dictator is justified" God doesn't commit genocide. As I told you before. They were not HUMAN. Do you understand what means to be a human being? You must have a human soul. You must have human DNA. Your DNA will prove if your human or not. And many people are not human. The ancient Egyptians, Greeks, etc were not human. Mainly their monarchy wasn't. He's a jealous God for a reason.
Have you actually seen HELL? Because I have. And know people who had. The purpose of hell is a jailhouse for the demons, for the time being until the war. Since people worship demons, worship satan through sin, and even sleep with them, where do you think you're going to go if you do all of these things? You will join them. God doesn't have to put you there. It is by blinded choice. He tells you 'hey, don't go that way', you still do it. Whose fault is it if he tries to stop you and you still kept going? As MANY TIMES I have had visions and foreseen implications of people's choices that will lead them down the wrong path and I tried to stop them, I get crapped on and hurt because THEY wanted to do what they wanted. And every time I have predicted right, I tend to be 99.9% spot on EVERY. SINGLE. TIME! And it would hurt me greatly because I love people. But they made those choices. Some apologized and listened for now on. OTHERS choose to point fingers at me for telling them 'I told you so.' Or IF I choose to be silent about it as God does at times with people, and something still happens like last time. NOW they want to crap and curse you AGAIN for not saying something? It's damn if you do, damn if you don't. And God is TIRED of it.
Heaven and hell DO exist and I have seen both. It is not a state of being or mind, but where you earned that place. But GOD is the ultimate judge at the end of the day, JUDGEMENT DAY, where you will receive eternal life alongside him, or eternal separation until the war between the Saints and Satan's army, and the Saints win, while Satan and his army get oblivion. In other words, you'll lose your existence. That is the ultimate death. Nobody would know you and will be a figure of imagination. Because again, that is what you choose to believe. I didn't make the rules.
"If he created us, he deserves respect as a parent. But a parent has no right to kill kid children" God doesn't kill his children, and not everybody is God's child [lies from the church], and not everybody is of God. He has the right IF he sees a problem that spreads like a disease. You got to kill cancer.
"No one owes anyone anything. An act of kindness (creating us) doesn't mean were property. If we're not, he has no right to commit all the murders in the bible and dictate morality" So in other words, you don't want to belong to anyone but yourself. Fair enough. Hope you don't have a girlfriend or close friends then. Because you do belong to your parents. Always. So if you don't just tell them that if you do have parents and you didn't. He does what he does to protect us. We may not always understand why our parents do the things we do, but they're not perfect. But God, unlike our physical parents, IS perfect. And he wants us to have minimal to no complications in our lives as possible. If he doesn't get rid of these people, or allow some of these people to die, they will do the same to you and your family and loved ones. That's why he handles it and we do not start wars and try to play God on his behalf and give him a bad name.
@Kaazsz What explanation do you EXPECT me to give you? A lie? An answer for you to accept? Because it is not my place to do so. Either you want the truth or you want lies. If you want lies, get it from somebody else. Get it from the government, get it from other human beings. Because I am not God. I am only his daughter in Christ and servant. You can have good questions, but apparently, you seem to reject the answer. If I did not give the 'right answer', then you need to start asking the right questions.
"Do you believe that “god” sends you to burn for eternity or not." I will tell you what I told the OP. God doesn't send me there. I send my own self there through sin and lack of repentance.
Christ died for my sins, therefore I do NOT have to go there. But if I continuously do sin, then what he did for me is in vain, and I have shown through my actions that I am not repetitive and deserves eternal punishment. That is the law of the spiritual realm. Just like if I rob or steal, I go to jail. That is the law.
It’s okay hun. Don’t worry about it. I’ve been learning and digging truly and honestly with this religion and bible shit.
And through that learning and digging, I have come to interpret the Bible differently from you. Your way, now sounds like nonsense to me, given that I feel I see it the correct way, and you see it the ignorant and confused wrong way. But we can both read the same bible, and go line by line, interpreting the scripture, and you and I would interpret it very differently.
I just thought of an experiment!
Would you like to present a quote from the Bible? You present the quote right. Then I will interpret it based on my understanding and my perspective.
Then, after I say what I say, you come back and tell me how you interpret it.
I think that would be a fun exercise. What do you think?
@Kaazsz Look. If you have time for games and think this is a 'religion', you have to time to answer to God when you die about the excuses you make for yourself for your actions. I got news for you. He is not going to want to hear it. I know that you are a carnal minded person who has no desire to change. I am not telling you to join a religion. I tell ANYBODY do not be a believer if you're not ready to die by the hands of Satan and the people with him. I would warn you to have a relationship with God, not a religion. I am working towards my salvation. It is your responsibility to do the same or not.
I am not going to sin before God and debate his word when he said not to. Either you believe or you don't. I am not responsible nor going to be responsible for your adult choices. You are not a child. You're a grown man. You can make your own choices as I can make mine.
I have a relationship with god already though. And I see it as much better and real than the guy in the sky “god” that you believe in. Yet here you are saying I don’t want to change. I’ve been on this path for 33 years. I’ve been debating against religious people AND atheists since the internet came out and AOL was the big thing when I was a kid lol.
I was an atheist growing up. But, most atheists stay on that path and refuse to leave. Me? I want to know the truth. The real truth. The real reality. I want to know the ultimate truth.
And so I seek that truth constantly. It has lead me to believe in a different interpretation of he bible than you do. But what is funny, is despite the fact that you’re talking about hell and demons, most of what you’re saying lines up exactly with what I believe. The difference between our beliefs is you believe that there is a hell and heaven and god is just this guy in the sky.
I believe that god is the integration of all of existence. God is existence. We are parts of god’s body. We drink his blood, we eat his body. Because we drink water, we eat flesh and living things like plants, which come from the earth, which comes from the universe.
We drink his blood and taste his flesh. We are his flesh. We are his blood. We are made in his image, because when we look at ourselves in the microscope, we see the universe within ourselves.
Our consciousness, that is the logos. The spirit, father, and Holy Ghost. Those are all aspects of this reality, this universe. They are concepts for us to understand but now that we have advanced our understanding of this reality with science, we combine the two. This is actually what Islam does. Islam is 100% (well so they say) congruent with science and reality. Unlike the Bible. But I’m no Islamist. I am without religion I think religion is silly.
But religions have managed to piece together many wise things. The next step is to combine that wisdom with our real understanding of reality.
Now, when I read the Bible, I don’t need to go to church to have a priest interpret it for me. Now when I read it, I understand it. Or I feel that I do. Now that I see it as I am simply one tiny piece of god, trying to learn and understand and connect with the whole. When I see it like that, the Bible and other scriptures start to actually make sense. The wisdom comes together in a way that grants epiphany after epiphany.
So the way I see it, I am getting closer to the real god. While you are worshipping some guy in the sky and wasting your time. To me, I’m on the right path and you are wasting time.
If you are correct. How can one believe in what you believe is the truth? What do I have to do, what must I learn, what must I read, to see how you see it and believe it? How can I believe there is anheaven and hell and demons and all this nonsense when I read the Bible now and it makes more sense than before when I saw it how you do?
@Kaazsz Guy in the SKY? It must not be the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob then. Because you're going out of bounds. You say you seek the ultimate truth, but I obviously see a person who just likes to debate about existence. Not somebody who actually has a relationship withGod, but with you liking the idea of a god.
Science is nothing. Nothing is measurements about this reality.
God created this universe to work mechanically. Scientists simply aim to understand god’s creation. I believe most scientists do believe in god. Though I know a good heavy percentage are also atheist. Maybe 50% I don’t know.
But to me, science is simply another method of worship. Science is here to help us understand god on the deepest level. Because when you integrate with god, before you get there you must first understand and see new perspective. I don’t know what makes you think anything about our world is magical. God created this reality to work mechanically. Because that is the only way to grant us free will.
We have free will, because of evolution. Because of physics. Because of light, waves, particles. God created this, all of this, and he created is perfectly. Because perfection is existence. Existence must work logically for it to exist. That is why it is perfect.
That is why there is pain and suffering. Because it is a function of a logical reality. Because god created this reality to work logically.
To me, science is one aspect in understanding god. Of course the spirit aspect is there as well. But when religious people think it’s separate? That’s how I know when you are a fool.
@Kaazsz You'll know when you meet him in person, that's all I got to say. Because he does not tell me all of that nonsense you have to go on. That's based on your own personal belief. I think you're just confused and don't really know what you believe. Evolution has nothing to do with God. Religious people think like you. Spiritual people don't care about that stuff. All spiritual people want is a relationship with him. And trust him to lead us into living right and everlasting life. Whether he created, we believe it. Whatever he says, we listen with understanding. And if we don't have it, if we desire it, it will be given unto us. If he leads us to learn further on a certain matter, it is our choice to learn it. But you choose to mix the flesh with spirit. That is not of God. He commanded to live in the spirit. And you think you can achieve it through flesh. Just as religious people do. Your just as different kind of religious.
Science is of satan that mocks God. It is up to people to take that knowledge and reveal what God has established. God never intended for us to learn any of this stuff. It was stolen from heaven by the watchers who gave us knowledge of these things. That is why God kept it from us because we take what he establishes and tarnish it.
Because existence is a manifestation of spirit. It’s all the same thing. The spirit father Holy Ghost or the logos or however you describe it doesn’t matter. The spirit is the flesh and vice versa.
All things are integrated. Spirit is flesh, flesh is spirit. Learning is teaching, teaching is learning.
I am very spiritual and that is where this all began for me. The religion stuff, to me, is like a plague that corrupts and hurts us. My aim is to understand religion enough to convince people that it’s bullsbit, and to instead have them go down the path of spirituality.
But you say you’re spiritual yet you’re talking about hell demons and how Satan will rise to fight the Great War. I’m pretty sure that’s Entirely from the Abrahamic religions but you’re saying religion is dumb. I feel like your contradicting yourself.
It’s nonsense. We are human beings. Look at our brains. Look what we can do. God created us like this. God is a creator and he made us in his image. We are also creators and we have free will. Just as god does.
Satan doesn’t exist. Satan is a concept, not a real thing. He’s not anguy god sent to hell. Satan is a concept meant for us to understand to help guide us.
God’s enemies are not in hell and nobody is in heaven. Those things don’t exist.
Heaven is integrating yourself with god. With the universe. Both physical and spiritual. Hell is moving away from that in any way. Hell is disregarding this existence and important to our spiritual development. Heaven is recognizing god created this reality for us and that it is good. That this reality is here for us to develop our spiritual selves.
Hell is nonsense. Heaven is nonsense. When I read the Bible, I read it this way. Because my perspective and interpretation is just different from yours.
Even though I suppose the Bible shouldn’t matter too much. But the Bible goes from being a religion, to feeling more like a spiritual guide. At least when I changed the way I thought about it, that is the change that I now see in the Bible. The religious people are interpreting it as a religion. But it’s simply a guide. A guide which has a lot of human writing added to it, because humans stepped in with thoughts of control and decided that the best way to control people is to convince us that hell is actually a real thing rather than a concept for us to understand.
What people did, was realize that they cold control us. That people have free will, but you can remove that free will by tricking people into believing in hell. The worst imaginable fate for a spirit to suffer. You can’t argue against it. Cuz it’s not real. They use it to manipulate us.
I hope at the very least, this is a fun conversation. I don’t feel like we are fighting. We are discussing some ideas I’m glad I’ve read all that you said in this thread. That rhymed. I’m a rapper now.
Anyways, it doesn’t seem to me, like there is anything which is “for sure.” Like you’re saying your path is the right path. But what can convince a person to go down YOUR path? There isn’t a monument, created by god out of spirit material, which shows people with undeniable truth, that this is the right path. That yes, there’s a hell and you’ll burn in it and ultimately cease to exist.
What I mean is, there just isn’t any “proof.” It’s all purely spiritual. One must follow their own path in spirit. You cannot know which path is the correct one. You can read every text. Read every opinion. But nothing will truly say “this is the ultimate one true way.” I do not see evidence of that.
And that cannot exist. That would remove our free will. If god had a monument, which proved his existence without any doubt, that would remove our free will. And god wants us to have free will.
Many people have also seen other religions afterlives, tunnels of light, deep abysses, places where they died filled with monsters etc. I take no stock in what people claim to experience. I value empirical facts.
No they are not real. thats just a childish way of viewing life. there is no hell or heaven , go live your life and be free of this bullshit. no one is watching you.
50/50 they could be 9r couldn't be. No-one knows until we die. And I've seen plenty of things in my dreams, that doesn't necessarily mean they're real or could happen.
I maybe wrong and Im not out to start an argument but isn't the bible full of unbelievable stuff that we are supposed to have faith in rather than believe
@almondcake Well heaven and hell is kinda a concept that is a pillar of Christianty. While absolutely there is some stories in the Bible that is hard to believe and could have been used as metaphors or just a lesson depicted, but I think the concept of heaven and hell is quite clear and not just a metaphor or story. It is a direct effect of choosing which belief to follow 😊
But yes I absolutely agree with you that some things in the Bible is pretty unbelievable. So I read with the mindset of "What can I learn from this" instead of being focused on the details too much.
But your question asks do you believe heaven and hell are for real? There is no proof of this so it must be a faith rather than a belief. Im not saying they are not real , Im just saying I can't believe so I keep my faith they are real.
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