I wish I could do a male version of this, but as it is, I only have insight into the brains of my fellow women.
So let's begin now, shall we? ^^
You all heard unclear, misleading ideas men toss around like that alpha-beta crap, or lies women spread like "I just want someone nice, handsome, interesting, who likes my music, bla,bla tall, honest, confident, confident, confident, confident... Did I mention confident?"
The truth is pretty straightforward and rather simple, so let me clue you in...
Bit of Evolution For Dummies
Those in the know might be bored by evolutionary psychology, but it's short and very relevant, so please read the following.
Not to end up with a broad regurgitation of evolutionary psychology and all the nuances of the theory, I'll try to boil it down to 2 simple things:
Intersexual selection (opposite gender selection)
Intrasexual selection (same gender competition and intimidation)
1. Intersexual selection is sexual selection in which one gender shapes the other gender's evolution by picking members of that gender they find most preferable.
Meaning: Men become what women need them to be and women become what men need them to be.
The gender which invests more into the offspring biologically is less open and available, therefore more influential in sexual selection. Some species have even gone extinct, or branched off into whole new species thanks to female influence.
Meaning: Women influence men through sexual selection much more and faster than the other way around.
The gender who invests more biological resources (like bodily harm, energy, time) into offspring has a reason to be more picky and a more vested interest into looking at as many characteristics as possible with aim to monopolise them as long as it's needed.
Meaning: Women are more choosy and more interested in monogamy than men aimed to make the best environment for their own child.
2. Intrasexual selection is sexual selection based on competition exerted over the same sex in order to eliminate them from the dating game before the opposite gender comes to interact with them.
This is the source of all your alpha-beta male crap. Thinking that you're worthless unless on financial/social/physical top. Unless you're "alpha".
Your penis measuring obsession. Your exaggarating with working out.
Did you know men invented marriage? Men's tendency to become territorial applies here as well.
Illusions that beating some man in a one-on-one fight/argument/face off, being a bi hero will somehow make you more interesting to women.
In reality, women don't give a shit. That's between you boys and trust me, we see that stuff in the same way you see competitions between women like:
Woman on woman cattiness and resentment.
Gossip.
Tendency to ignore male advice on what is attractive and pump our breasts into round, hovering water balloons, become anorexic, or wear enough make up to rival a clown.
We look silly right? Well so does your penis measuring contest. :p
Because this is not about you, this is all about how "big" that other girl is... It's about taking her out of your sight, about making her feel like less confident, about seeming to be higher in status than her...
So in evolution speak: What do women really need?
Human babies take a long time to mature into self-sustaining individuals. They require a lot of energy and care to become functional and healthy adults. The woman's entire biology is geared towards nurturing this useless little human up to a point where it can sustain itself and prolong the species.
The woman is soft, pliable, adjusted towards nurturing of the young and childbirth, more emotional, gentle, security seeking, people orientated, easily sacrificial for her young. Her main biological goal, her whole evolution shaping her body and psyche is geared towards that little creature we call a baby. She is the "last line of defense" for the child and it's her job to find the best possible "first line of defence" available. To select the best man to help her raise her children successfully. To select him and accommodate him in order to keep him around. A man whose whole evolution shaped his body and psyche geared towards both her and that little creature we call a baby.
Following will contain 3 parts:
The Provider The Protector The Leader
I urge you to read chronologically.
The Provider
Are women gold diggers?
It takes a lot to feed the human brain. It takes a lot of effort, time and mental skill to find easier, faster and safer access to more nutrient dense foods.
We are the most successful predators on this planet and we primarily have men to thank for it.
Ladies asked, and the gentlemen obliged.
Women needed someone to get the least accessible food, build most of the shelter, while they occupy themselves with easier tasks that allow them to simultaneously nurture the very fragile and slow developing young.
A long time ago this may have implied men being the hunters, builders and scraping one branch against the other to make fire. Maybe an animal pelt was a caveman's equivalent of a sports car.
Today this implies that the man has skills and opportunity which will enable him to provide a comfortable life for his family on his own. It implies an ability to provide security. To earn good money, to physically and emotionally sustain the stress of his work environment as best as he can.
Such skills would be: high IQ, good memory, social influence (popularity,
status, social adjustment), work ethic, competitiveness, beauty (it actually does open doors and implies biological advantages beyond looking good), inventiveness, risk taking, practical skill (motor skill, handiness and the like), emotional and psychological resilience, etc...
Such opportunity would be good background, breeding, support network (country organisation, local community, family, friends) giving him a head start in life in terms of health, support and motivation...
In short: A man's overall power and ability to exert it.
Many know that female desire to "get with a rich guy" is a very real desire and many women will readily deny this for fear of being branded as "gold diggers". But accusing the woman of being a gold digger simply for having this desire means to misunderstand it, or attempt to manipulate her partner selection trough shaming.
Gold diggers are not interested in the man as a partner, in love, emotional connection, family... Gold diggers want one thing and one thing only: the gold. They will fuck an old man in a hospital bed if it brings them money. And they don't care about anything else but the money. Anything but a rich man is seen as failure even if they do go for "less".
Normal women consider this only an attractive aspect of the man. His ability to provide is the superficial, basic requirement they will place on him, but it's not the end all, be all of this partnership, like it is for the gold digger.
For a normal woman, a man's ability to provide is seen like a woman's beauty is seen by a normal man. The desire to get with a rich man is equivalent to the desire to get with a female 10.
It's just an "ideal".
They will be initially drawn by these "provider traits" to the man, but an emotional connection will soon be established making these traits a bonus to the partnership, not its essence.
A woman may lose her beauty and a man may lose his skill to provide, but a partner who is not superficial will stick around and fight it out, or fall with you. The emotional safety such loyalty and love imply are not removed just because the woman, or the man was originally attracted by the superficial.There is a grey area where the love dies when the woman turns into a whale, cuts off sex and refuses to fix it, or if the man becomes a bum and refuses to get off the couch, provide emotional support, etc.
I am not saying love and attraction are not unaffected by different superficial factors. Love does need to be sustained and nurtured just like a living organism, but I am saying it is not directly conditioned by them.
Just like a plant, you must nurture love to grow and thrive, but failing to water it once, or twice, or even a while will not cause it to wilt. Consistently neglecting it for a long time without any care is what will kill the plant.
In the same manner, if love was directly conditioned by the superficial, the woman would leave the moment her man loses his money (like a gold digger), or the man would leave the moment his wife loses her looks.
So... What did men become for us?
Smarter (I'm sure this is a controversial claim that should piss a lot of feminists of, but on average, there is no denying this. Men's brains developed to problem solve. They have higher average IQs and just a simple glance at work statistics, scientists, inventors, psychologists, artists and even a simple conversation with many people of both genders should clue a clever person in on this. I'm sorry ladies, but it's not the patriarchy that is "keeping us down". It's our mental ability and biologically conditioned interests. Men are smarter because we needed them to think fast and think well, while we were too busy with not dying during childbirth. They are decorated with pretty feathers because they needed those to get our attention, while we already had theirs.)
Stronger (It's unbelievable one has to argue this at all, but for some people this is controversy. Men are stronger, faster, with better reflexes, better resistance, tolerance to pain and anything else you can think of when you consider physical ability. There isn't a single sport in the world that would allow a single category without gender segregation. Includes things like chess and poker. Though those two do refer to my previous point as well.)
More aggressive, risk taking, emotionally resilient, pridefull, inventive... Just better at survival in any given environment. It was their job to fight and make sure we and our children survive, so today, they can do it all better than us. They fight to survive better than we do and they enjoy it more than we do. Their biology even rewards them for "manly" behaviours with a sense of fulfilment, because that's exactly what we (women) did for 6 million years. (We rarely experience same feelings.)
Guys, haven't you ever wondered why women pettily insist a guy has to earn as much, or more than them? Why marriages degrade and fall apart once women become providers?
Even though a non-feminist woman ready to admit to this is extremely rare, subconsciously they all know it. They know what they need and they know what they really expect from you...
To be stronger than them in as many ways possible, to provide more than them. To be more skilful than them. If you fail to establish this perception in her eyes, she's more likely to lose respect, in extension her interest in you.
Thanks to modern feminism, job opportunities for women, affirmative action trying to bypass female natural limitations and modern technologies allowing women to leave the household and work, this task of appearing to be superior to a woman in order to capture her interest has become increasingly difficult. Women have been convinced they don't even need men. So much so, that some males don't even see how they can possibly change that anymore, so they don't feel motivated to try. Most have been convinced by feminism it's not even possible... We're equal after all.
Any field dominated by women loses prestige thus losing male candidates.
Any job that earns less money than a common woman's occupation is really seen as not worth fighting for.
The purpose of providing for a woman and a child has become disrespected and casual for our society. Many jokes in popular comedies come at the expense od stupid fathers and husbands.
What did anyone expect young men of the next generation to do but say: Meh...
I knew this was a good read when I seen evolutionary psychology. Also when I seen: "wear enough make up to rival a clown." Very original, got a chuckle, I couldn't have said it better. Reading all this from beginning to end (from the first to the second take) it really answers a lot of questions I personally held, like gender rolls and feminism, how things have changed. Personally I always wanted to read a more in depth look at the gender rolls of the human race, I've heard so many opinions on what's acceptable and unacceptable that I wondered how things were originally. A lot of things have kept me confused until I stumbled upon this. Thank you for taking the time to type and post this.
Excellent take. What has happened nowadays is that the real people in power ( the Rothschild / Rockefeller led Cartel ) due to their total control of the media & funding lunatics such as " Kill All Men " radical feminists , religious nutters , etc , have created a confused , divided " society " . They have used social engineering to create " Neuters " , ie women that act & carry themselves like men & wimpy , wussy girlyboys. This kills gender polarity& attractiveness to the opposite gender , which in turn creates frustration , hatred & an even more divided & fucked up society. This is a deliberate " Divide & Rule " tactic to maintain the status quo & kill off opposition to the " Ruling Elite ".
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Interesting take! A lot of information has been strewn together. However, the practical aspect is somewhat nonexistent! The term "evolutionary psychology" is a wonderful high toned label. In that "field" people put a high sounding label on very simple every-day human concepts and pretend it's intellectual brilliance. Big words with little meaning! Don't misunderstand me. I appreciate all the hard work that went into writing this take. But we don't need to wade through such a volume of verbiage to address the title question, "What women REALLY Want?".
Let's cut through the fog here! The bottom line in all this is that many women today in American society are -- NOT CAPABLE OF INTELLIGENT MATING CHOICES! That's the actual problem. Today's American women have actually become FAMOUS FOR CHOOSING JERKS!
You don't need a high toned "evolutionary psychology" label to understand that in prehistoric times before the formal system of laws, a man could just rape whatever female he could get his hands on. Basically same as animals. Women didn't have a choice! Though it's not politically correct to say, female instinctive attraction for male "strength", "confidence" "leadership", etc. were meant to facilitate the very natural rapes needed to perpetuate the species.
The female instinctive attraction triggers based on natural rape facilitation serve little or no purpose in a modern society. Yet these instincts remain! And that brings us back to the title question of "What women REALLY Want?". The truth is, WOMEN WANT TO BE RAPED! I know it sounds bad. But, we can't get away from it! The whole notion of women wanting to be ravished and swept off their feet by this strong, confident, untamed MAN! IT"S RAPE! RAPE! RAPE! Just as nature intended! Obviously women don't consciously desire outright rape! But they want some aspect of it! A rapist who doesn't really rape them! We're dealing with real female hormone fog here!
More women need to just grow up and stop choosing jerks!
Natural rapes? It would have been more fun had you posted a picture of giant turd. At least more people would see your real point without having to tldr.
Obviously this is a difficult topic that female sensibilities cannot accept easily! Yet the reality remains before us! Natural rape indeed! This is what the animal world uses! This is what people had before before the trappings of civilization were created! I'm sorry that the notion distresses you so much! But it's a truth we cannot escape! You are well read! Surely you've heard about rape fantasies. Much has ben documented on that! Hit google and you'll see plenty! I read about 1 case where a woman actually paid to have a man come into her home and perform a prestaged rape! You can't make this stuff up! I apologize to you and any others who are understandably upset about the concept of rape in nature. Nevertheles, if you can look at it objectively, some aspect of natural rape is what women want by nature! A man who is "sexy" or "hot" in a woman's eyes must have some aspect of NATURAL RAPE! Think of the typical descrptive terms... strong, agressive, confident, untamed challenge! Rape!
I feel that women need to grow up and get past their romantic notions of being "ravished" and "taken". In a modern society many women are trying to choose mates based on the vagina tingle excitement related to the natural rapes of human prehistory!
A genuine nice guy who is very gentle, very kind and truly cares about others will not register to a woman's eyes as a potential rapist at all. Hence, no vagina tingle excitement! However, a bad boy biker gang thug in leather who intrudes on your space with boorish disregard gets a woman's motor going! Vagina tingle excitement! He's sexy and hot! And he looks like a VERY potential rapist! This is what i'm talking about! I hope you can get out of denial! Ciao!
I get people who live in a fantasy land to make themselves feel better, make themselves hopeful. But what are you doing ignoring reality? Trying to justify your misery by proclaiming it to be the status quo... Now that's the depressing kind of self delusion. =/
I'm sorry, but your last post made no sense at all! You did't address or refute anything! The only one denying reality is YOU! And that's your right to do! I'm sorry if my points are too much for you to handle!
My words are based on experience and observation. On experiencing this myself and realising my fellow women feel exactly the same. By realising WHAT they need. Your words are based on those MGTOWs and their delusional, basement dweller philosophy. Sitting at your keyboard theorising about women is not the same as observing them while experiencing the same they do.
Take Owner - My words are based on observation and experience just like yours but from a male perspective. And please don't connect me to your delusional MGTOW notions. I have children that are older than you. I have been observing people and relationships long before you were even born! So it's foolish for you to try to pretend that everyone but you knows nothing. I apreciate the work you did putting your take together. But you didn't actually create any new knowledge! You just just pieced together old information and gave it your spin. And I salute you for that! But you don't have any special wisdom that placesyou above other people who have looked at this subject since before you were born.
You need to check your ego. You wrote a take on GAG! Calm down! That does not make you a world class authority! But I thought you might be knowledgeable and objective enough for an inteligent discussion! I thought you might be more than just another silly girl with a big ego. I guess not!
"But you don't have any special wisdom that placesyou above other people who have looked at this subject since before you were born. " Playing the age card doesn't make the fact that you're full of shit go away.
I've been noticing your answers to people on this page. You seem to resort to childish tantrums and insults whenever someone has a different view. You can't even make a civilized discussion. And you're not even original in your insults! And you talk abput playing a card! YOU are playing the childish tantrum card! Or is it the time of the month card? Or maybe just the silly young female card! Your formula is pretty common with female bloggers. If someone has an alternate view, ignore their points and resort to insults! Bet your next post to me follows the same pattern!
I've signed up here because of this post. I admire your courage and will to write this down. It is just a feeling, but the whole thing feels just right. On a logical level also most of it makes sense. Normally there is no perfect theory, but this one is pointed just in the right direction. I think that both sexes have a duty to make of themselves the best person that they can be, everything eventually falls into place. The wants and needs are different, and I believe that this says it all: Be the kind of person you want to be with and you will.
It's awesome non-user signed up to comment. I'm glad this spread further than this site alone because I truly believe it would be best that as many people as possible got to read it. Thank you for your comment. ^^
It should spread, it its very worth reading. Thank you for that, in the name of all the people that will read an benefit from it. I found this site very interesting, and constructive in many ways, so I'm glad I joined. Keep going the good way!
I really had issues with that article at first because it was introducing things that I didn't believe to be true, but the more I thought about it, the more it made sense and filled some holes in my human theories.
It is a very instructive article, I wouldn't have pointed out things this way but it has a lot of undeniable truth. Well done.
@OP, ''What Women REALLY Want? Cutting trough the nice guy, alpha male, "confidence" bullshit... (Part 1)''..
Are you calling everything I've learned through all my experiences bs in this title of ur take? I don't know if you are or not cuz I did not read ur entire take in fact I only read the title of it. But if you are calling it bs then my response is what its always been & that is: Silly GAG'er, women don't know what they want.. [=
Men aren't smarter actually. The most recent IQ study I read said women scored higher and women outperform men in school, by a long shot.
I think there are some good things with this Take but many of it assumes traditional gender roles, which no longer happens. I don't know how well I buy into the "Evolutionary Psychology" theory.
IQ is no true measure of intelligence. I know a 300 scorer who is basically autistic. Women outperform in school because it's a calm, "no losers", quiet, environment. Schools have become increasingly boy un-friendly. Male intelligence can be seen once you reintroduce the concept of "winners and losers" in higher education and in earning, invention and job competition. Men outperform by a long shot, despite being "inferior in education".
You're confusing IQ for intelligence and schooling for education.
@Inamorata I know IQ tests are not a true measure of intelligence, we learned that in my teacher education classes. However, what IS a true measure of intelligence? If we can agree problem solving, IQ, schooling, and decision making don't make someone "smart", then what does?
Problem solving? You mean like inventing the entire human civilization? I'm pretty sure men did that and I never said problem solving doesn't measure intelligence. Inventing is male, the most raw form of how we define intelligence: creating something new to deal with an unfamiliar/hostile environment.
Decision making? I'm not sure what you mean here.
And schooling and IQ are definitely worthless. I know plenty of morons with diplomas. You have to be dumb to begin with, to point out your education in order to "prove" you're a smart person. Only a person's ability to reason and examine reality counts. Even in areas like so called "emotional intelligence", where women should be better, best psychologists in history were all men.
What a load of tosh! lol we are all different and we want different things, indeed confidence is a good trait in anyone even in women but we all like different types of people, the fact you put all women into 1 catagory too shows us what tosh you wrote lol.
Everyone is different but there are still patterns because we are fundamentally very similar. Our genetics are almost identical because we are of the same species.
Only because the media told you there were lol :P this stuff is old fashioned now, most women will want 50/50 effort and still want their independence intact these days, so do i :) if a guy doesn't do 50/50 and always tries to treat me as meek and get insecure over the smallest of things every human can do themselves he would be out the door, 99% of females these days are the same, no more stuff like "The woman is the nurterier while the male is the provider", no... we have moved away from that, some guys can't quite accept it yet but that's how it is.
"no... we have moved away from that, some guys can't quite accept it yet but that's how it is." Sheesh.. there is plethora of evidence in commonly observed female behavior and demands (of today mind you) that show this is not so. Some of which I pointed out in the article.
It's not guys who can't accept modern (lack of) gender roles. It's the women. Because the moment guys accept that, women begin to friendzone them, ignore them, or divorce them. Strength of feminist propaganda in every culture shaping male behavior, is directly related to percentage of divorces. - Large majority of which are initiated by women.
Good luck in keeping a gf pal... lol that's all i can say... women are more independant these days... try to ground them down and they will ground YOU down xD lol.
Actually it would be much harder for me to a find a partner to whom I can be submissive and feel completely comfortable with it, seeing how I probably have 30 IQ points on you.
And no, women are not interdependent. The only reason they think they are is because there are no dominant men around to activate their natures (except "bad boys" who only use them and then drop them). But once those feminists run into a dominant man who begins to date them, they change their tune in a heartbeat. Seen it several times.
I can understand from your take, its that you justify all those resented qualities like gold digging and sugar coated them to be an act of self interest for the women's babies, I have come across a lot of women in G@G who don`t want babies and married life but still want a man who will shower them with material things. But as a man and ever since the first man walked on earth they have always provided for their women and their offspring, its just how women demand excessive quantities of provision that drives the male mad, when the minimum would be enough, its the competing with the other women when you already have all you need mentality which is not part of biological survival, this is why so many men resent women, working a 50 hr job and still the misses is not satisfied!!!
"I have come across a lot of women in G@G who don`t want babies and married life but still want a man who will shower them with material things. " I was talking about a prevalent biological program, not exceptions to the rule. Also many women who say that get baby jitters once the biological clock starts ticking, so take what you see with a grain of salt and look at the real word instead. (Not to mention women who fall in love tend to change their mind as well.)
"this is why so many men resent women, working a 50 hr job and still the misses is not satisfied!!!" That's because the man has no authority over her and she can nag him and emotionally blackmail him. An unhappy woman will find flaw in everything. But as soon as she's directed (thus emotionally soothed), everything he "lacks" becomes irrelevant.
"That's because the man has no authority over her and she can nag him and emotionally blackmail him." I agree with you to some extent, but if the man exerts total control she will cry for her voice and demand equality if he is abusive then she will build up passive aggression towards him and spite him. I think all women have unjustifiable behavior to some extent, some more than others, even if the girl can be classified as a nice girl, she would still harbor some of those bad qualities, I think as a man you should acknowledge these flaws and work to reduce them to lowest as possible. And remember the saying you can`t have it all.
"I agree with you to some extent, but if the man exerts total control she will cry for her voice and demand equality if he is abusive then she will build up passive aggression towards him and spite him."
If he does it right, without compromise WHAT SO EVER and in the best interest of everyone, first he won't be abusive. Abusing someone is something you do selfishly. Second, she'll be too wet to resent him and she won't dare oppose him, because if he is doing it right, she should fear him.
(IMPORTANT NOTE: Fear is not like terror. Fear comes when you know exactly what behavior will cause the pain. You may fear gravity and falling off a cliff, but you're not terrorised by gravity.
While you may be terrorised by a rabid dog, because you don't know what behavior will cause punishment.)
If a woman doesn't fear you, she can't love you. But if she is terrorised by you, THEN you're an abuser.
"If a woman doesn't fear you, she can't love you. But if she is terrorised by you, THEN you're an abuser. " Get this idea out of your head!!! If you fear someone then you can`t love them!!! What you meant to say is that you should revere your partner, which means to be in awe of and respect deeply.
"Get this idea out of your head!!! If you fear someone then you can`t love them!!!" No... You do that. You're projecting on women. I already explained what I mean by fear. It's not being afraid of a man randomly. It's being afraid of opposing what you already settled on/what you decided and being afraid of harming him.
A student fears mouthing off to a teacher and leaving the classroom at random. If there is no such fear, the student can't learn anything and the teacher can't be respected, let alone loved.
Yes because you obviously had no proper authority in your life. If you acted out, first the teacher must have been unable to make kids fear him. And if you acted out to a point where no teacher could stop you, that means you had crappy parents. Either way, some authority figure was failing you.
How to stop you? Scolding, rejection, detention, homework, disciplinary actions like kicking out of class, school. How to expect parents to stop you scolding, punishments, removal of privilege, spanking.
How do you not know how discipline is maintained? Weren't you a kid?
I`m one of those guys with problems with authority, I guess I`m like a wild animal that can never be tamed, I have had strict teachers who had ex-military background and they couldn't`t handle me!!!
Girls want a master who is dominant enough to make them obey but will order them to do fun things they enjoy already want to do but were too complicated and oppositional to do when the other guys asked nicely
one part of them likes getting away with using their vagina to get money attention and cool stuff and the other part knows its wrong and craves to be spanked
I've dated girls who didn't know how to even buy an airplane ticket or plan for themselves. didn't even have a direction in life without me. its easier if we don't have to worry about all that stuff.
All right, just finished reading #1. Well done, I just might right the guys version of this as a response since you asked for it. Time to get some peppers and read part 2. Only part I was having trouble understanding was 'emotional resilience'. Is that saying girls want a guy who's always in control of his feelings?
It means to have a hold on one's emotions. We all have them and we should all express them. But people who are too emotional tend to be less able to think straight, less able to ignore hardship and push trough, thus being less able to be fair and functional leaders. A guy can be emotional, but less that emotion clouds his reason, more in control he is. More trustworthy he becomes.
The most attractive thing is a guy who can practically yell passionately when debating his friend, but the moment he's done expressing what he's got, you see he is not really angry at all and he becomes indifferent. He's just expressive, bust his words came from reason, not feeling.
I have no idea. Somehow, I'm turned off by the thought off this crying, heart-bleeding poet. I don't know why it annoys me. But as it is, I never had a sensitive boyfriend like that. I guess a guy's tendency to keep his emotion in control in bad situations would automatically make him less sensitive in good situations as well. But I really don't know is it a turn off. It sounds like one. I've never dated a guy who was like that. Nor have I dated a humanoid robot.
Normal, loving, devoted showing of affection through honest actions, or words? That's the best way to do it and it CAN get sappy. =)
never knew men invented marriage, that's interesting. and kinda weird. since men in their basic nature want sex (with whoever) and it is more so the females that want steadiness, or so i always thought. i was under the impression that 'cheating' is called cheating (ie a bad thing) because of the female's stand point on relationships.
i never believed monogamy to be a natural thing for humans, i thought it only existed because girls aren't interested in men if they sleep around, and as such men have to restrain themselves. in today's society i don't feel men can be men any more. our true nature is suppressed by women demanding that we are like them - caring and monogamous. just my dumb point of view on things, im not particularly knowledgeable on the subject (as you may be able to tell)
Men need intimacy and love like women do. Children need monogamous, dedicated fathers to raise the family. It's what improves the quality of the species. Of course men would be programmed for it as well. Sure to men, expressions of love look less like candle-light dinners and more like anal, but men, like women need relationships. It comes with being a member of a social species whose young take almost 2 decades to grow up.
I don’t see how this is any different form the alpha male trope. The alpha male idea codes both, the idea of a man that competes well against others, and that is attractive to women. All what it is expressed here is compatible with the idea of an alpha male that is a provider, protector and a leader. So in which way the original. As a matter of fact goes deep in the same type of arguments justifying this male ideal we see in incel forums and what not. This is nothing new or original let along progressive.
Whoa. I don't think I've ever seen a more clear explanation than that. You might want to write a book or something. I learned a lot. You're also now one of the only people I follow on here.
A very good take! but I wonder what you would say about people who believe our society has evolved to a point where traditional models of evolution no longer apply?
" 6 million year to become what we are? Pfft, feminism needed about 100 years to change all that shit! "
Feminism always existed. Feminism is female rejection of male authority. Same thing can be found when kids oppose parents, or when employees oppose bosses. Does that mean we suddenly evolved out of not needing bosses and parents?
I think I meant more in the way of unfit or desirable people being able to live comfortable lives and reproducing. In fact you have less well off people reproducing more than the traditionally fit people. I guess I really meant, does evolution exist in a survival of the fittest way for us any more? It doesn't really have anything to do with feminism.
Who we are is determined by evolution. Even if we don't have to fight of bears today, we still have reflexes, behaviors and needs designed to fight of bears.
We don't know. There are disagreements on whether we are evolving anymore. And on how we are evolving even if we are evolving. I lean more towards the idea that evolution didn't stop, but I don't know about its future direction at all.
Female body was evolutionary adjusted to surviving childbirth. Women ave an onslaught of estrogen during childbirth, which numbs them. A natural anesthetic of sorts. That does not make them more tolerant to pain than men, just more tolerant to childbirth than men.
But they are equal to men in terms of chronic pain. Men and women with bone cancer suffer hard chronic pain and suffer equally. Not less, or more, just equally.
Yes evolutionary psychology is important, however it places far too much emphasis on where we WERE, not what is happening currently, and also far too much emphasis on what gender roles of the past were.
But our present is not like our past, also you are neglecting to mention what sets us so far apart from other species is our complex communication and social structure. Although traditionally most men worked/hunted the reason our offspring have been so much more successful is that not just mothers but communities helped and cared for them. Doctors teachers neighbors.
Also you focus a lot on the differences. Yes yes i know there are many differences, but there are many similarities as well, such as social needs, the need to be loved and appreciated, not just by SOs but by friends, neighbors, colleagues.
I do applaud your points on feminism though, but it isn't about that they have destroyed "traditional" gender roles its more on the point you made that they have convinced women they don't need men. Not only that they have convinced many women that men are stupid, selfish, violent rapist, all of which is complete bullshit.
That is the bigger problem for society, instead of
Finding women who love us we find women who hate us assume we are stupid selfish violent rapists, who blame us for everything they don't like, who use the female based legal system to get custody, money, and who use society's notion that anything is always the mans fault to their advantage.
AKA the man cheats he is a cheating pig (rightfully so). A woman cheats, good for her! She found a man who could satisfy her needs! (bullshit).
It is not the lack of traditional gender roles that is the problem it is the hatred and dehumanization of men by feminists. Why are so many men giving up on women? Why would you love someone who hates you blames you insults you and thinks you are a rapist?
When women never meet a man they can love, when they are trained to become repulsive to such men, when they never recognise the value of men in their lives, they won't grow up to be women you will love for their femininity. They are just without direction. Hating a women for being a feminists is like hating children for being brats. Without guidance and love they need, they can never be what men need.
Feminism caused a lack of male authority which in turn caused bitchy women. You can't possibly divorce these concepts.
Also I have no idea what your point with evolution is. Yes our present is not like our past, but are you ignoring one is caused by the other? Also all that community crap you're piling on is secondary to what I am talking about. I don't deny the community, but community doesn't diminish anything I said by a margin.
Yes feminists are brats, that have grown up and become hate mongers. Also, many people hate them not for what they are but what they choose to do to other people. Also, you are assuming male authority is inherently superior to female authority, which is just as wrong as reversing it, if you've ever had an asshole boss, male or female, you should know that.
As to your point about never receiving the guidance they need, it is not feminists its what they are doing. They are the ones dominating social, media, political, legal, and educational systems, all to rob young people, men and women of the guidance they need and spread their hate mongering. Feminists aren't just a group of loudmouth brats, they are hate mongers influencing our culture from education to politics.
Also, I wasn't trying to diminish what you said with the community and social needs comments, simply trying to add to them.
"Also, you are assuming male authority is inherently superior to female authority" I'm not assuming it. I know for a fact it's so. Male authority is needed, often better executed, has a biological head start and is inherently satisfying in romantic relationships. Female authority is rarely functional in general, while in romantic relationships, it's a fucking disaster.
Well, you are obviously an intelligent woman, and you definitely know more about evolutionary psychology than I do, but even that being the case your argument would cause you to yield to what I say, just because I am a man and somehow my authority is superior... Which even I am willing to admit in that case it isn't.
You don't understand the concept of authority, do you? Authority is something you gain over another with their acceptance of you. Authority is power utilised over a person who wants the benefits of your skill.
For example, a teacher has authority of a student. But a guy yelling information has no authority over people who happen to hear him. Authority comes from agreement and unity formation.
You don't get authority over a woman for being a man. You get authority over a woman for FULFILLING THE MASCULINE ROLE in her life.
As it is I am not under your authority since I don't need anything from you. You have no function to perform for me to want to be governed by you.
A there it is the classic power struggle. Relationships based on power struggles never work as well as relationships built on trust, cooperation, and mutual respect. None of those things are possible when there is a constant power struggle, because instead of working together you are working against each other.
Ah yes more dominance and submission obsession, because that is people's roles and they must accept them forever. But they don't and even you dominance and submissive evolutionists believe that if the dominant seems submissive or the submissive seems dominant there is a struggle. So either you waste your time trying to keep the status quo in every situation, or waste time struggling for power. It is a wonder civilization has managed to get so far with all this infighting and obsession with power.
Damn hippy... Throwing your hands into the air and proclaiming you're "above the power struggle" is not stepping aside. It's deciding to let someone else lead you and resigning yourself to being a passive little girl all your life.
That would be like sitting in a car, going down the road at full speed and being afraid to take the wheel, so deciding to solve the situation by letting both you and your passenger crash.
Humans struggle for power just like they struggle for personal space. It's required by the very token of existing.
It is a waste of time and a detriment to progress, instead of helping each other achieve greater goals we put far too much energy into fighting, bullshit displays of puffery and dominance, and giving people who have no fucking clue what they are doing positions of power.
Next you'll be telling me that global warming is a hoax and that Obama guy was born in Kenya.
"It is a waste of time and a detriment to progress, instead of helping each other achieve greater goals we put far too much energy into fighting" There is no organisation without dominance, and without organisation, there is no benefit, or cooperation. Humans can't just hold hands and sing kumbaya and expect everything to work out, you goddamn hippy...
you do realize that the majority of what you wrote is redundant?
technology has made it such that reproduction is possible without the traditional concept of marriage and relationship. women's role is no longer baby making/nurturing and male's role is no longer to provide. things are totally changing.
these gender labels place a restriction on human potential and result in further confusion and bullshit.
Technology didn't compensate for our choice to ignore our biology at all. That would be like deciding we don't need to eat anymore. After a year of living on our "modern" supplements, everyone would be dead.
with all due respect your first sentence doesn't make sense...
"That would be like deciding we don't need to eat anymore. After a year of living on our "modern" supplements, everyone would be dead." complex human relationships are not the same thing as eating. so your argument fails on logic.
They are not identical and maybe she isn't equating them. She is pointing out a similarity.
"technology has made it such that reproduction is possible without the traditional concept of marriage and relationship."
Uh it being possible would not mean it was the most effective means of child production so I don't understand your point. It's been 'possible' for a person to produce children without a relationship or marriage essentially forever if you want to get technical. Think sex outside of marriage or something a little more gritty like females manually putting semen into their bodies with their hands or something.
-"women's role is no longer baby making/nurturing and male's role is no longer to provide." -"things are totally changing." -"these gender labels place a restriction on human potential and result in further confusion and bullshit."
All completely debatable and conjecture.
The point of her post was to talk about efficiency and evolution. Neither of which are untrue.
I think this has successfully dissauded me from wanting to be in a relationship. This all sounds like such a waste of time and effort for something so superficial. I'll find something else more emotionally satisfying I guess.
I give you a road map to the most intimate, strongest way you can connect to a lover and you give up because that's too superficial for you? What isn't superficial? Meg Ryan movies?
"connecting" that has nothing to do with who a person is, what they like or dislike, how they feel about the world or why they feel they are in it, etc.
Essentially your idea of connecting is conforming to gender norms and is completely removed from what makes us individuals. Who we are is an afterthought in your model. It's the epitome of superficial.
So if I tell you: All people should eat. Your response to that would be: I'm an individual. You're not thinking of my individuality! How I eat and what kind of food I like is just an afterthought in your generic model!
This is the most idiotic response I've gotten thus far.
No, if you said all people eat I'd say you gave meaningless information that has nothing useful or of value to anybody because it's generic information that doesn't help anybody. That's what this tripe you listed above is. You act like love and connection can be boiled down to these simplistic worldviews that you listed above. You're a 20 year old kid acting like you have the answer for the "road map of the most intimate, strongest way you can connect to a lover"? It's a bad joke.
I've tested my theory, I've seen it work time and time again. I've experienced the difference in relationships. This is not my discovery. It's a collection of knowledge I picked up over the years.
You're a whiny anon talking about: "but I'm special!"...
There are no scientific laws of psychology, per-say. She is giving you evolutionary tendencies. You can fight your biology but ultimately, at that point, who are you actually hurting?
yeah, someone won't bring you the money that you want. you ditched poor girls 2 times already. You hate the society and dig only money sex and drugs. please die.
Ah, a fellow intelligence. Well, guess what? I don't want women who aren't able to read this and think just maybe a pizza delivery guy might have all the qualities she wants.
Sheesh. >.> Alright here... If evolution says humans evolved to choose most nutrient dense foods for example. Like candy, does that mean that all people must like the same type of candy? Does that mean that all people must like candy? Does that mean all people will eat ONLY candy?
No, it fucking doesn't.
Why? Because theory of evolution addressees prevailing behaviors within a SPECIES, not who you specifically want to spread your retarded genes onto.
Also I took a look at this. The title says it's a study on how people try to fuck one another. Yeah and? Any point, I'm not reading a giant fucking paper from a dubious science as psychology unless you actually have a point to make yourself.
Your point was that women have submissive urges, and we ought to respect them. My point was that intelligence suggests we ought not to, and that's why there are feminists.
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