I believe in 'choice feminism' to a reasonable degree. By reasonable what I mean is, none of us get entirely free choices in anything.
However those I personally know who are 'feminists' consider 'choice feminism' feminism about as much as BLM protesters think 'all lives matter' is a strong stand against racism.
I persobally believe this is because certain radicals have led ypu to believe an extreme definition of the word is its only definition. I wrote my take to suggest this wasn't so and hope you mught consider this
For instance some one above said that feminists are against comic book characters and victoria secret models. This is not nessecarily a feminist perspective. What is is that a woman dictates how her body is portrayed. A stripper can be a feminist by definition.
I once took a class called women in 3rd world countries and found out that ideas i associated with what i THOUGHT was feminism were not so, such as Muslim face coverings and an adults choice for female circumcision. Many of my womens studies profs actually advocated for a woman's right to choose these things (they just didn't want bullying, male pressuring or a women being forced to choose).
Those are sort of warzones of modern feminism - agency around sex vs. possible exploitation, and intersectionality and how it speaks to our view of women in other cultures that are... uh... I don't know how they'd put it, but basically FAR more patriarchal cultures, and to what extent our ideas of equality should be pushed on other cultures.
Exactly. By projecting or eurocentricity on others we are no longer open to reciprocation. I mean I'm a girly girl. I only date alpha males. But thats what i like. I can wear pretty and at times revealing clothes because i enjoy it. But i also know im making choices. Many women don't have them. Even in the u. s. evwn in 2016. It doesn't mean I'm opposed to other groups who feel oppressed from standing by their cause. Sure, methodology is always on question... I don't believe in "male hating", just like i don't believe in violent protesting for racial equality. But that doesn't mean the definition doesn't fit me.
I've frequently said if I were dropped into say Afghanistan, I would clearly say I'm a feminist. I don't here, because I don't believe women are by and large an oppressed class here. Women and men -are- treated differently, and i'd hesitate to say one has it better or worse overall. Because the advantages and disadvantages are different, men and women in various situations may, overall, be better or worse off than they would be if they were in the 'other' position. Someone who wants to flee an abusive spouse with their kids? Better off female. Someone who wants to be chosen CEO? Better off male. Someone who wants to have lower risk passing out at parties? Better off male. Someone who gets arrested? Better off female. Etc. etc.
On top of that, I don't think the pushes by many (not all) feminist leaders are likely to improve things, even where their main complaints are. Which is frustrating.
I appreciate your perspective. I DEFF agree one of my pet peeves is courts biased siding with maternal custody! It should be a case to case basis.
I think we have all come a long way. I just don't believe in saying the war is over when a battle is won. Seems premature and negates the fact that we as a society can always work toward something better.
I am glad that feminism is slowly deminishing and egalitarianism is taking over. It shows society is progressing towards a better balance. What a lot of people seem to criticise is the abuse of power. I believe this to be true on both sides. Humans seem to have a knack to abuse power.
My issue with egalitarianism is it is great in theory but men and women are in fact different. Much like apples and oranges. Both are great. Both are fruit. Both have vitamin c but then each has completely different additional vitamins too. Plus consider how an apple and an orange pack in a brown sack lunch. Each is great to bring to school but each needs to be packed differently so that it isn't smushed or bruised, dependant on the fruit.
I might agree egalitarianism be practical in an information society. It has often occured to me that metro sexuality and the attraction to women exhibiting less feminine figures is directly related to a society that no longer sees fertility and the need to populate as a nessecity. Its almost a reflection of the plateau theory. Not that it is good to judge against anyones choice of gender or gender roles. Simply put a society that does not prioritize sex for procreation can be one where we are all equal thus homogenization.
What I mean by Egalitarianism is that both men and women should get the same rights and treatment. Of course men and women are two different genders though.
you are not a feminist, a t least not by the modern liberal definition. No one is saying women can't be electricians, fact is very few are interested. If a female electrician applies at my firm I am VERY apt to hire her if she is personable, because being around 100% men gets old and her presence will keep them from getting too "manly" in a way that hurts business. Even if she is not hot this is still true.
Margaret Sanger did not invent the birth control pill, stop spreading lies, it was invented by a MAN named Gregory Goodwin Pincus.
4
0 Reply
Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
Women in my country, the uk, were given the vote in 1928. Men where given the vote in 1918. The men were given the vote because they had just spent 4 years fighting in a war. A war in which many millions of them did not return. Since a war brought about the right for my gender to vote do I now automatically have to support every war? That's essentially what you said in your first point.
It was a war against other men though... I don't know whether that is what she meant to say in her first point. Her wording leaves a lot of room for interpretation. It looks as though more women are being encouraged to join the military etc.
Is that a must to receive the opportunity for equality? What about disabled people, the elderly or children who couldn't fight in the war and can't fight now?
@Fightingspirit good point. This goes back to my argument why i consider myself a feminist opposed to egalitarian, because there ARE differences between men and women. To ignore them is to ignore part of who we are. We should still have the right to freedom though. And just because we have it good in first world nations doesn't mean we should accept less then the ideal.
@newbie2015 The two words are very closely linked. The way you seem to describe it suggests some sexism towards men. Is that so? In those few sentences you have written I got the impression you might be neither a supporter of feminism or egalitarianism because you mention the differences between men and women as a reason for feminism. As far as I know that wasn't the idea of feminism. The idea was for some women to strive towards equality ('some' because others live/d a life of equality). Even though there are differences doesn't mean there should be inequality. I have noticed in some posts the support for feminism, egalitarianism and sexism. I think I could be totally wrong and you want to mention the differences of inequality between men and women. If that's the case then please be clearer when you write, ;) and you can forget the first few sentences. I had to deal with a lot of sexism lately. Ahhhhh... lol :)
@Fightingspirit i disagree. Equal rights are not exclusive to being the same. Im all for equal rights, thus a feminist. That doesn't mean i feel women are superior either.
If you support the slaughter of healthy unborn children, you lost me. Voting and home economics are great but feminists flunk at a woman's most important central role, motherhood.
2
0 Reply
Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
The word means different things to different people. There's also levels of extremism amongst feminist.
Women work, and take care of the family. So there's not much equality within the family home
1
0 Reply
Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
If feminism is about choice than why did Hillary Clinton infamously bash homemakers with the quote "I could have stayed at home and baked cookies?".
Seriously some women who have a shred common sense and yet call themselves "feminists" should consider calling themselves something else. I recommend "egalitarian". The word "feminist" triggers a reaction in people like seeing a Nazi swastika.
I took many womens study classes at an all womens college, and while i did not major in it, and though you may disagree with me, i do have some creditial behind my opinion... it is true the last one i tpok was at the beginning of the millennium, but 40 years is a bit of a stretch
well... that's not really what I mean. the point is that feminism today is about none of these things and has become the antithesis OF gender equality and the REAL gender disparities today are mostly harming men... and CAUSED BY feminism and encouraged... like the child support gap: equality would be 0% disparity, paid 50% by women, 50% by men... with feminism: 80% disparity, 90% paid by men, 10% by women. It's as far from gender equality as black is from white now.
Also giving me your resume is just a fallacy. an "argument from authority". it would be no different than me indicating my opinion is more valid "because I've dated lots of feminists". both arguments are bullshit. An argument must stand on its own and be supported with reason, not fallacy. what feminism is now, is disgusting and disempowering to BOTH (or all) genders.
No even then it was what it is now, we just ignored it because they hadn't as much power then. The original feminist burned down buildings to get what they wanted among other things.
Oh yeah, feminist do a remarkable job of rewriting history like claiming women couldn't vote but ignoring the crucial detail that men couldn't either or claiming that women couldn't own land but again omitting the fact that this applied to married women only and the reason was because coveture required the husband to be economicly (among other things) responsible for her so he had to pay the taxes on it so therefore should have the ability to say whether or not he can afford to keep said land or to utilize it in a way that best benefited her (as she could divorce him if he wasn't providing for her (or not providing enough). They like to rewrite everything.
I have nothing to say about feminism. All I want to say is that I don't know what it is about Emma Watson's face but I have an overwhelming urge to punch it.
All good points. Women should not be shamed for choosing traditional roles and feminists should factor these women's choices into their statistics when it comes to the so called gender pay gap.
0
0 Reply
Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
Fighting for your right to "vote" was the biggest waste of time.
In that pic it looks like Emma is auditioning to play the female version of the Joker.
0
0 Reply
Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
I think u r superficial by connecting make up and pants to women fighting for their rights Do u know how many women suffer and killed and went to jail so u can have this freedom that many women around the world just dream of I think u just want a husband and put make up and produce kids
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
42Opinion
I believe in 'choice feminism' to a reasonable degree. By reasonable what I mean is, none of us get entirely free choices in anything.
However those I personally know who are 'feminists' consider 'choice feminism' feminism about as much as BLM protesters think 'all lives matter' is a strong stand against racism.
I persobally believe this is because certain radicals have led ypu to believe an extreme definition of the word is its only definition. I wrote my take to suggest this wasn't so and hope you mught consider this
Who do you consoder radicals? Who do you consider 'non radicals'. I'm basing my view on what most women's or gender studies departments would say.
For instance some one above said that feminists are against comic book characters and victoria secret models. This is not nessecarily a feminist perspective. What is is that a woman dictates how her body is portrayed. A stripper can be a feminist by definition.
I once took a class called women in 3rd world countries and found out that ideas i associated with what i THOUGHT was feminism were not so, such as Muslim face coverings and an adults choice for female circumcision. Many of my womens studies profs actually advocated for a woman's right to choose these things (they just didn't want bullying, male pressuring or a women being forced to choose).
Neither of those points surprise me.
Those are sort of warzones of modern feminism - agency around sex vs. possible exploitation, and intersectionality and how it speaks to our view of women in other cultures that are... uh... I don't know how they'd put it, but basically FAR more patriarchal cultures, and to what extent our ideas of equality should be pushed on other cultures.
Exactly. By projecting or eurocentricity on others we are no longer open to reciprocation. I mean I'm a girly girl. I only date alpha males. But thats what i like. I can wear pretty and at times revealing clothes because i enjoy it. But i also know im making choices. Many women don't have them. Even in the u. s. evwn in 2016. It doesn't mean I'm opposed to other groups who feel oppressed from standing by their cause. Sure, methodology is always on question... I don't believe in "male hating", just like i don't believe in violent protesting for racial equality. But that doesn't mean the definition doesn't fit me.
I've frequently said if I were dropped into say Afghanistan, I would clearly say I'm a feminist. I don't here, because I don't believe women are by and large an oppressed class here. Women and men -are- treated differently, and i'd hesitate to say one has it better or worse overall. Because the advantages and disadvantages are different, men and women in various situations may, overall, be better or worse off than they would be if they were in the 'other' position. Someone who wants to flee an abusive spouse with their kids? Better off female. Someone who wants to be chosen CEO? Better off male. Someone who wants to have lower risk passing out at parties? Better off male. Someone who gets arrested? Better off female. Etc. etc.
On top of that, I don't think the pushes by many (not all) feminist leaders are likely to improve things, even where their main complaints are. Which is frustrating.
I appreciate your perspective. I DEFF agree one of my pet peeves is courts biased siding with maternal custody! It should be a case to case basis.
I think we have all come a long way. I just don't believe in saying the war is over when a battle is won. Seems premature and negates the fact that we as a society can always work toward something better.
I am glad that feminism is slowly deminishing and egalitarianism is taking over. It shows society is progressing towards a better balance. What a lot of people seem to criticise is the abuse of power. I believe this to be true on both sides. Humans seem to have a knack to abuse power.
I prefer Egalitarianism because at least Egalitarianism doesn't show misandry.
My issue with egalitarianism is it is great in theory but men and women are in fact different. Much like apples and oranges. Both are great. Both are fruit. Both have vitamin c but then each has completely different additional vitamins too. Plus consider how an apple and an orange pack in a brown sack lunch. Each is great to bring to school but each needs to be packed differently so that it isn't smushed or bruised, dependant on the fruit.
I might agree egalitarianism be practical in an information society. It has often occured to me that metro sexuality and the attraction to women exhibiting less feminine figures is directly related to a society that no longer sees fertility and the need to populate as a nessecity. Its almost a reflection of the plateau theory. Not that it is good to judge against anyones choice of gender or gender roles. Simply put a society that does not prioritize sex for procreation can be one where we are all equal thus homogenization.
What I mean by Egalitarianism is that both men and women should get the same rights and treatment. Of course men and women are two different genders though.
I use to think Emma Watson was the most beautiful women ever but now I don't think so anymore.
you are not a feminist, a t least not by the modern liberal definition. No one is saying women can't be electricians, fact is very few are interested. If a female electrician applies at my firm I am VERY apt to hire her if she is personable, because being around 100% men gets old and her presence will keep them from getting too "manly" in a way that hurts business. Even if she is not hot this is still true.
I agree with most of your other points
Guess I'm a feminist then 😊
Really though I love girls and I want them to be just as happy as boys ❤️
Margaret Sanger did not invent the birth control pill, stop spreading lies, it was invented by a MAN named Gregory Goodwin Pincus.
Women in my country, the uk, were given the vote in 1928. Men where given the vote in 1918. The men were given the vote because they had just spent 4 years fighting in a war. A war in which many millions of them did not return. Since a war brought about the right for my gender to vote do I now automatically have to support every war? That's essentially what you said in your first point.
It was a war against other men though...
I don't know whether that is what she meant to say in her first point. Her wording leaves a lot of room for interpretation.
It looks as though more women are being encouraged to join the military etc.
@Fightingspirit they dont enter combot roles though.
Is that a must to receive the opportunity for equality?
What about disabled people, the elderly or children who couldn't fight in the war and can't fight now?
@Fightingspirit good point. This goes back to my argument why i consider myself a feminist opposed to egalitarian, because there ARE differences between men and women. To ignore them is to ignore part of who we are. We should still have the right to freedom though. And just because we have it good in first world nations doesn't mean we should accept less then the ideal.
@newbie2015 The two words are very closely linked.
The way you seem to describe it suggests some sexism towards men. Is that so? In those few sentences you have written I got the impression you might be neither a supporter of feminism or egalitarianism because you mention the differences between men and women as a reason for feminism. As far as I know that wasn't the idea of feminism. The idea was for some women to strive towards equality ('some' because others live/d a life of equality). Even though there are differences doesn't mean there should be inequality.
I have noticed in some posts the support for feminism, egalitarianism and sexism.
I think I could be totally wrong and you want to mention the differences of inequality between men and women. If that's the case then please be clearer when you write, ;) and you can forget the first few sentences. I had to deal with a lot of sexism lately. Ahhhhh... lol :)
@Fightingspirit i disagree. Equal rights are not exclusive to being the same. Im all for equal rights, thus a feminist. That doesn't mean i feel women are superior either.
Can you please explain that. Equal is equal to me. Then you are suggesting unequal rights? That would be sexism, dont you think?
If you support the slaughter of healthy unborn children, you lost me. Voting and home economics are great but feminists flunk at a woman's most important central role, motherhood.
The word means different things to different people. There's also levels of extremism amongst feminist.
Women work, and take care of the family. So there's not much equality within the family home
If feminism is about choice than why did Hillary Clinton infamously bash homemakers with the quote "I could have stayed at home and baked cookies?".
Seriously some women who have a shred common sense and yet call themselves "feminists" should consider calling themselves something else. I recommend "egalitarian". The word "feminist" triggers a reaction in people like seeing a Nazi swastika.
this is feminism from 40 years ago.
today feminism is all about entitlement.
Errr... Im not THAT old...
your understanding of feminism IS that outdated.
today's feminism is more about superiority, entitlement, dishonesty, victimhood and general obnoxiousness... more like this:
https://i.imgur.com/H7RgWF9.gif
I took many womens study classes at an all womens college, and while i did not major in it, and though you may disagree with me, i do have some creditial behind my opinion... it is true the last one i tpok was at the beginning of the millennium, but 40 years is a bit of a stretch
well... that's not really what I mean. the point is that feminism today is about none of these things and has become the antithesis OF gender equality and the REAL gender disparities today are mostly harming men... and CAUSED BY feminism and encouraged... like the child support gap: equality would be 0% disparity, paid 50% by women, 50% by men... with feminism: 80% disparity, 90% paid by men, 10% by women. It's as far from gender equality as black is from white now.
Also giving me your resume is just a fallacy. an "argument from authority". it would be no different than me indicating my opinion is more valid "because I've dated lots of feminists". both arguments are bullshit. An argument must stand on its own and be supported with reason, not fallacy. what feminism is now, is disgusting and disempowering to BOTH (or all) genders.
No even then it was what it is now, we just ignored it because they hadn't as much power then. The original feminist burned down buildings to get what they wanted among other things.
@hellionthesage news to me... but no surprise.
Oh yeah, feminist do a remarkable job of rewriting history like claiming women couldn't vote but ignoring the crucial detail that men couldn't either or claiming that women couldn't own land but again omitting the fact that this applied to married women only and the reason was because coveture required the husband to be economicly (among other things) responsible for her so he had to pay the taxes on it so therefore should have the ability to say whether or not he can afford to keep said land or to utilize it in a way that best benefited her (as she could divorce him if he wasn't providing for her (or not providing enough). They like to rewrite everything.
I have nothing to say about feminism. All I want to say is that I don't know what it is about Emma Watson's face but I have an overwhelming urge to punch it.
I also qualify as a Feminist according to this myTake :) However, I'm more of a Egalitarian
All good points. Women should not be shamed for choosing traditional roles and feminists should factor these women's choices into their statistics when it comes to the so called gender pay gap.
Fighting for your right to "vote" was the biggest waste of time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YdvFBxBD5ghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90RajY2nrgk
I totally didn't link the wrong video or anything...
yeah, if you are about equality you better start representing male rights too.
In that pic it looks like Emma is auditioning to play the female version of the Joker.
I think u r superficial by connecting make up and pants to women fighting for their rights
Do u know how many women suffer and killed and went to jail so u can have this freedom that many women around the world just dream of
I think u just want a husband and put make up and produce kids
Ummm. I said there was no coorelation. But thanks for not reading :)
You can't call people feminists if they don't want to identify with that name
Woah woah woah is that top picture with Kiefer Sutherland or am I blind
One reason I am not a feminist they experiment on men and society, children to increase their own options and comforts in their life.